Should illegal aliens all be made citizens?

[SlumpBuster]

Ok, first of all, you can go and get a judgment against some slick as snot employer and chase him around until you get your money. In the meantime, workers' comp would have paid for your client's surgery, his follow-up care and given him a little money to keep the lights on. Workers' comp is woefully inadequate, but when you have a worker with no health insurance who needs serious and expensive medical care, it's better to have the bird in the hand rather than the two in the bush. Do you think a jury in an employer liability suit is going to be inclined to award adequate damages to an illegal alien? Maybe in "your neck of the woods" but not mine.

I think your right on the money. One in the hand vs. two in the bush is the foundation of any good no fault system. My point was that employer still has exposure. And an illegal alien isn't getting fair treatment at all these days in any woods. (BTW, I hope my "neck of the woods" phrasing didn't come off as snotty, I didn't mean it to. I really do only have a limited knowledge of workers comp)

But, I think your ideas ask a bigger question thats right in line with the thread: Is an illegal alien entitled to equal treatment under the law?

Resident Loser says "you're here illegally, you have no rights." Okay, does that mean I also have forfieted my human rights or just constitutional rights. What if I'm accused of a crime while I'm here, do I have the right to a trial? What if I'm English and I have overstayed a visa, is that different than coming over with a coyote from Mexico?

If we are a nation of laws, not men, and no man is above the law, then how can a person be below the law?

I've always thought that there was alot of wisdom in the maxim that the measure of a society is gauged by how it treats it weakest and most vulnerable members. Its not often that I agree with President Bush, but here I do. Undocumented immigrants are undeniably important, valuable, and contributing members of our society. But, they are also weak and vulnerable. Good for them that they are finding a voice.

[dean_martin]

I think your right on the money. One in the hand vs. two in the bush is the foundation of any good no fault system. My point was that employer still has exposure. And an illegal alien isn't getting fair treatment at all these days in any woods. (BTW, I hope my "neck of the woods" phrasing didn't come off as snotty, I didn't mean it to. I really do only have a limited knowledge of workers comp)

But, I think your ideas ask a bigger question thats right in line with the thread: Is an illegal alien entitled to equal treatment under the law?

Resident Loser says "you're here illegally, you have no rights." Okay, does that mean I also have forfieted my human rights or just constitutional rights. What if I'm accused of a crime while I'm here, do I have the right to a trial? What if I'm English and I have overstayed a visa, is that different than coming over with a coyote from Mexico?

If we are a nation of laws, not men, and no man is above the law, then how can a person be below the law?

I've always thought that there was alot of wisdom in the maxim that the measure of a society is gauged by how it treats it weakest and most vulnerable members. Its not often that I agree with President Bush, but here I do. Undocumented immigrants are undeniably important, valuable, and contributing members of our society. But, they are also weak and vulnerable. Good for them that they are finding a voice.

Yep, you're right. Generally, when an employer who is required to carry workers' comp doesn't, they've exposed themselves to common law negligence claims and penalties. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, some legal and some practical or economic. And no, SB, I didn't think your "neck of the woods" comment was snotty. I lashed out a little because I injected one of my cases as an example. AR is supposed to be an escape for me. I usually don't discuss my job here unless it's election time which is usually accompanied by lawyer bashing.

In fact, the "your neck of the woods" comment is particularly relevant because many of the issues facing illegal immigrants have been and will be decided on a state-by-state basis. National uniformity will take a while.

I may pull out my old Constitutional Law text tomorrow to see what protections, if any, have already been afforded aliens by US Supreme Court decisions. I think I remember trial by jury in criminal cases, maybe 4th Amendment search and seizure issues and the right to a primary education have been addressed.

Interestingly, I think the language issue has been addressed. If I remember correctly, there was a case out of Alabama in which the US Supreme Court said that a state could not limit its driver license test to English only.

I think Congress has come up with a plan that places aliens in categories according to the number of years they've been here - 5 years, 2 to 5 years and under 2 years. I have no idea how someone who's been flying under radar can prove they've been here for 5 years. Other than that observation, I have no opinion on the plan yet.

[GMichael]

Interestingly, I think the language issue has been addressed. If I remember correctly, there was a case out of Alabama in which the US Supreme Court said that a state could not limit its driver license test to English only.

I think Congress has come up with a plan that places aliens in categories according to the number of years they've been here - 5 years, 2 to 5 years and under 2 years. I have no idea how someone who's been flying under radar can prove they've been here for 5 years. Other than that observation, I have no opinion on the plan yet.

Hi Dean,

Thanks for your informed input on this thread. It's great to read your take of the situation.

Still, they don't offer the driver license test in Tagalog or Visian. My wife would have loved that. Good thing she learned English.

I still don't think that being here for a "long time" is a basis for moving up in the process. My wife has been here 4 years already and has to wait 3 more to even apply.

[dean_martin]

Hi Dean,

Thanks for your informed input on this thread. It's great to read your take of the situation.

Still, they don't offer the driver license test in Tagalog or Visian. My wife would have loved that. Good thing she learned English.

I still don't think that being here for a "long time" is a basis for moving up in the process. My wife has been here 4 years already and has to wait 3 more to even apply.

Hey GM - my wish is that whatever Congress does it helps your family (and all those who've been going about the process the right way).

[GMichael]

Hey GM - my wish is that whatever Congress does it helps your family (and all those who've been going about the process the right way).

Thanks Dean,

I don't think that anything they do now will hurt us at this point. May just piss my wife off a bit. I'd like to see that whatever they do turns out to be fair to everyone. But as my Dad told me, "Who ever told you that life would be fair? It sure wasn't me."

[Resident Loser]

...But as my Dad told me, "Who ever told you that life would be fair? It sure wasn't me."

Fair is a place where pigs and pies win blue ribbons...

jimHJJ(...but then again I was always a bit off...)