JFK Assassination

[JOEBIALEK]

Perhaps known as one of the greatest murder mysteries of all time, the assassination of President John F. Kennedy has for years intrigued scholars, authors and the average American citizen. The assassination can be classified into two distinct categories: method and significance. Few would argue that too much emphasis has been given to the method and very little to the significance. This is exactly how the perpetrators would like it to be. Photographic evidence along with eyewitness testimony has already conclusively proven that JFK was shot by more than one assassin. The Mary Mormon photo clearly shows the profile of a shooter behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll. It is obviously someone wearing a policeman's uniform {some speculate it was J.D. Tippit}. This was the fatal head shot. Two other bullets struck the President; the first one entered at the base of the throat and the second struck him in the back. While the positions of the assassins makes for a good game of clue, the more important issue is the significance of the assassination.

Many have speculated that the former Soviet Union, Cuba, the KKK, the Mafia, LBJ, CIA and the FBI all had strong motives to attempt this. However, given the connection of Lee Harvey Oswald to the CIA and Jack Ruby to the Mafia along with the altered autopsy reports, the evidence points to a coup de' dat by the CIA. They did it because they believed JFK was taking the United States on the wrong path towards dealing with communism. That is the reason why the cover-up has been sustained for so long. The perpetrators honestly believed they were doing the right thing for the United States at the time. The will of the people was discarded in favor of preserving the nation as they saw fit. Unfortunately, they didn't realize the long term effects of the assassination. One result was the increased power of capitalism over democracy. Profit has become more important than freedom. Corporations are more concerned with increasing the wealth of a select few than with promoting the general welfare of the very nation that allows them to conduct business. A second result has been the subordination of this nation's civil liberties to the private agendas of the powers that be. The only opinions that are accepted today are those that further the bottom line. Contrary opinions are discouraged and distorted by spin doctors. The only explanation for the lack of attention given to the significance of the assassination is because the government, the military and the media all know what happened and to expose the event for what it really was goes to the central core of what constitutes the United States of America.

[kexodusc]

I thought Dick Cheney shot him?

[Geoffcin]

I thought Dick Cheney shot him?

What, the gang that coudn't shoot straight?!

(I bet he thought it was Osama peaking out of the grass)

[kexodusc]

Well, when you're drunk outta your mind, a lot of things look like quail.

[GMichael]

Well, when you're drunk outta your mind, a lot of things look like quail.

He shot Dan Quail too? He should switch to cookies.

[Bernd]

Perhaps known as one of the greatest murder mysteries of all time, the assassination of President John F. Kennedy has for years intrigued scholars, authors and the average American citizen. The assassination can be classified into two distinct categories: method and significance. Few would argue that too much emphasis has been given to the method and very little to the significance. This is exactly how the perpetrators would like it to be. Photographic evidence along with eyewitness testimony has already conclusively proven that JFK was shot by more than one assassin. The Mary Mormon photo clearly shows the profile of a shooter behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll. It is obviously someone wearing a policeman's uniform {some speculate it was J.D. Tippit}. This was the fatal head shot. Two other bullets struck the President; the first one entered at the base of the throat and the second struck him in the back. While the positions of the assassins makes for a good game of clue, the more important issue is the significance of the assassination.

Many have speculated that the former Soviet Union, Cuba, the KKK, the Mafia, LBJ, CIA and the FBI all had strong motives to attempt this. However, given the connection of Lee Harvey Oswald to the CIA and Jack Ruby to the Mafia along with the altered autopsy reports, the evidence points to a coup de' dat by the CIA. They did it because they believed JFK was taking the United States on the wrong path towards dealing with communism. That is the reason why the cover-up has been sustained for so long. The perpetrators honestly believed they were doing the right thing for the United States at the time. The will of the people was discarded in favor of preserving the nation as they saw fit. Unfortunately, they didn't realize the long term effects of the assassination. One result was the increased power of capitalism over democracy. Profit has become more important than freedom. Corporations are more concerned with increasing the wealth of a select few than with promoting the general welfare of the very nation that allows them to conduct business. A second result has been the subordination of this nation's civil liberties to the private agendas of the powers that be. The only opinions that are accepted today are those that further the bottom line. Contrary opinions are discouraged and distorted by spin doctors. The only explanation for the lack of attention given to the significance of the assassination is because the government, the military and the media all know what happened and to expose the event for what it really was goes to the central core of what constitutes the United States of America.

Hey a kindred spirit-"From Freedom to Slavery".
A lot has been written about this and I think the truth will never come out as it is locked in the Governments closet.
To my mind a more urgent question is-"Why can't the powers that be not find Osama Bin Laden?". Not finding him is a valid reason to continue illegal occupations of other nations. What is worrying is, that the overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens are decent people,but allow it to happen.Why? I somehow understand, as I would be worried living in a country which kills it's citizens in death camps (what else would you call Death Row).
Arnold Schwarzenegger for President-Holy ****, God help us all.

Peace

Bernd

[kexodusc]

I don't think the US really wants to find Osama. My father was a soldier/pilot and still works teaches at for the Air Force. When I go home to visit most of the troops I talk with are in agreement that as long as Osama Bin Laden is "out there" they'll have more support when they apply for budget increases to replace outdated and dangerous equipment, etc. So you send the minimum number of troops over to do the job, and stick to all the safe spots when conducting a search.

I'm not a general or a politician, but when so many soldiers tell me they'd do things differently (and are generally in agreement on what they'd do differently) you have to ask.

I have more and more respect for our soldiers. Following orders you believe in your heart to be in poor judgement without hesitation, especially when the stakes are so high, is quite admirable. Despite all the parades and TV kudos we give them, we really don't do enough to say thanks.

As for JFK...I can't help but wonder if he'd be remembered as fondly if he wasn't assassinated...or would he just be that generation's Clinton?
Congress moved to have the documents released in the 2020's sometime, but I'm sure by the time the files are made public many will be missing, blacked out, etc.
We may never know.

When I was in school, our history books said that Oswald killed him, period. No question, no debates, no mention of alternative (and more probable) theories.

[Resident Loser]

...certain traffic offenses would be capital crimes...

...as I would be worried living in a country which kills it's citizens in death camps (what else would you call Death Row).
Arnold Schwarzenegger for President-Holy ****, God help us all.

Peace

Bernd

If I wuz you, I'd watch the "death camp" analogy...What about the victim's of those poor, poor politcal prisoners? Since I'm sure that's the next characterization, just some pre-emptive activity on my part.

Those "people" on death row aren't there because they've been good little boys and girls...given the fact the appeals process is what it is, they can write books, find God, become jailhouse lawyers, and all the rest...what about the victims?...and their plans, their families, their lack of a future?..."Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord", but the Lord works in mysterious ways...And now with DNA testing, perhaps there are fewer chances for any mistakes.

They put down vicious animals with four legs, no reason they shouldn't do the ones with two. Besides, life in prison/no parole is a viable option for cases with obvious extenuating circumstances...for premeditated murder in the first, I say lock and load.

jimHJJ(...BTW, the Governator is naturalized, the Constitution would need to be changed...I don't see that happnin'...Wasn't this a thread about the Kennedy assassination?...I think there may have been a conspiracy...I don't know how or why or who, and I'd venture a guess we probably never will...for sure...)

[markw]

Wasn't this a thread about the Kennedy assassination

You know how it is. Ferriners with a lousy economy and high unemplotment that got their arses wupped in WW2 for trying to take over the world and exterminate Jews just love dumping on the US.

[Resident Loser]

...(on a subject waaay off-topic) Howdja make out with el Blizzardo?

You know how it is. Ferriners with a lousy economy and high unemplotment that got their arses wupped in WW2 for trying to take over the world and exterminate Jews just love dumping on the US.

What can we expect next? Maltreatment of the Indians...Slavery? Let's do a little more pre-emptive responding...Anyone care to remember it was the Europeans what started 'em both?

jimHJJ(...geez, some of this stuff is SOOO tedious...)

[Bernd]

...certain traffic offenses would be capital crimes...



If I wuz you, I'd watch the "death camp" analogy...What about the victim's of those poor, poor politcal prisoners? Since I'm sure that's the next characterization, just some pre-emptive activity on my part.

Those "people" on death row aren't there because they've been good little boys and girls...given the fact the appeals process is what it is, they can write books, find God, become jailhouse lawyers, and all the rest...what about the victims?...and their plans, their families, their lack of a future?..."Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord", but the Lord works in mysterious ways...And now with DNA testing, perhaps there are fewer chances for any mistakes.

They put down vicious animals with four legs, no reason they shouldn't do the ones with two. Besides, life in prison/no parole is a viable option for cases with obvious extenuating circumstances...for premeditated murder in the first, I say lock and load.

jimHJJ(...BTW, the Governator is naturalized, the Constitution would need to be changed...I don't see that happnin'...Wasn't this a thread about the Kennedy assassination?...I think there may have been a conspiracy...I don't know how or why or who, and I'd venture a guess we probably never will...for sure...)

Hi,

Quote
"Those people on death row aren't there because they been good little boys and girls..."

Not quiet so. I give a true story and you decide for yourself.
A young man from Chicago meets a girl from Texas.They do what comes natural she changes shape, he does the honorable thing and ups sticks and moves to Texas to marry her.
He finds it hard to find work meets some older guys (4 in number) and they hook up. They drink and want to score some Dope. No money. A plan is hatched to rob a Gay man. So they pick one up hitch hiking and drive him to a park. Then the two older friends suddenly produce a knife and a gun. All six march to a dark part of the park. The guy hands over his money and the young Chicago man and two of the others go back to the car when they hear gun shots.
All are arrested pretty soon and the two older friends are held together in a cell and get their story right. They point the finger at the young Chicago man. He gets the death penalty they two older ones get 50 and 20 years.
Some years into the Chicago mans appeal one of the older guys admits in writing to his girlfriend and in an interview that Chicago man had nothing to do with the killing of the gay guy.
Didn't seem to matter.
The Chicago man (which was my friend) was killed by the state of Texas on May the 19th last year. No evidence other then the testimony of two known fellons and liars cut his life short and deprived his Daughter of a Dad, his Mother of a Son, his Sister of a Brother and me of a Friend.
TDCJ # 999224
So no DNA could have stopped that.
And one more about DNA. What about Joy Gilchrist in Oklahoma? Be very afraid about incompetent Lab technicians.
And yes I have to agree that vicious animals are to be put down. Most off the time they are made vicious by their keepers or/and through neglect.
By killing citizens you create a whole lot of Hate and more victims. And by killing inocent inmates you create unspeakable pain.And if it is such a correct thing to do-Why not have the executions in public or even better on the TV "IIIIIIIIT'S EXECUTION TIME-right after these messages. I wonder who would advertise. So why kill the condemed in secret.
I always read quotes from the religious freaks about an eye for an eye. If they would read the Bible as they say they do they would find a passage that states That no man shall be punished on the word of just one man alone. Or something to that effect. They are hundreds in the death Camp on such evidence alone.
Let's hope for all our sake that the US can stop this barbaric treatment of humans and become the great Nation that has always been promised.

As for the german accent thing. My country has started two World Wars and Germany has become a most peace loving and tolerant nation through defeat and lesson learned.
My Grandfather was a School Headmaster. In 1936 he was asked to join the Nazi Party. He didn't. The following day he lost his job and cleaned the toilets in the same School and endured abuse by a sinister new young headmaster-but he never budged.
I am very grateful to the US to provide the food for my family during the blockade and I am far from being anti american. Just the way the nation is run by big business and Neo Conservatives is very worrying for many.
Phew.

Peace

Bernd

[markw]

...(on a subject waaay off-topic) Howdja make out with el Blizzardo?

24 inches, not counting drifting. Having to park on the street (Jersey has cities, too) and dealing with a conscientious gang of street plows assured me of plenty of exercise digging out our cars.

What can we expect next? Maltreatment of the Indians...Slavery? Let's do a little more pre-emptive responding...Anyone care to remember it was the Europeans what started 'em both?

Probably something equally inappropiate thet they have no real idea about. After all, they think they're the cradle of political and personal freedom, the facts you mention notwithstanding.

Gee, do ya really think a unified Europe will handle this Iraq situation like they say? ...do you really think they are able to?

After all, they are a heckuva lot closer than we are and missles only have a limited range.

[Resident Loser]

...the one thing I've come to view as a skeptic is Oswald/Ruby...

It was all too neat...like an hour crime drama...Oswald's history presented almost immediately, in the Marines, defects to the USSR, "Fair play for Cuba", pictures with the rifle...all the rest...Much too easy...even with the Internet, I think one would be hard pressed to compile that much info and incriminating evidence in that short a time frame...Sorta' like an obit, ready and just waiting. And not fer nuttin', Lee Harvey didn't really strike me as the brightest bulb on the tree...either he was the "best" at keeping his cover or he was simply a patsy. Then Ruby gets into the cop house, in spite of the fact that he runs a strip-club and may have nefarious connections and shoots the poor b@stard...and the two detectives flanking Oswald, can you say less than vigilant? Deer in the headlights...

I vividly recall seeing it live on TeeVee that Sunday, my mom gettin' ready for Mass...talk about weird...

Tons of plausible reasons why it all happened, CIA, LBJ, Castro, mafia...just say no to 24 years of Kennedy's...

jimHJJ(...take your pick...)

[JSE]

The Chicago man (which was my friend) was killed by the state of Texas on May the 19th last year. No evidence other then the testimony of two known fellons and liars cut his life short and deprived his Daughter of a Dad, his Mother of a Son, his Sister of a Brother and me of a Friend.
TDCJ # 999224
So no DNA could have stopped that.

Maybe he should have been thinking about his family when he was holding up the man? Sounds like a real "stand up" guy. Fair or not, he made a choice that day and has now suffered consequences. Sounds like he got delt an unfair hand, but it's hard to have a lot of sympathy for a person like that. You know, a criminal.

JSE

[Bernd]

24 inches, not counting drifting. Having to park on the street (Jersey has cities, too) and dealing with a conscientious gang of street plows assured me of plenty of exercise digging out our cars.



Probably something equally inappropiate thet they have no real idea about. After all, they think they're the cradle of political and personal freedom, the facts you mention notwithstanding.

Gee, do ya really think a unified Europe will handle this Iraq situation like they say? ...do you really think they are able to?

After all, they are a heckuva lot closer than we are and missles only have a limited range.

Yes Native Americans were treated appallingly and were lied to.
My response had nothing to do with "Dumping on the US". But the track record of America isn't too good. Every right wing Government since the second World War has been supported by the U.S. Now that is shameful.

Peace

Bernd

[Bernd]

Maybe he should have been thinking about his family when he was holding up the man? Sounds like a real "stand up" guy. Fair or not, he made a choice that day and has now suffered consequences. Sounds like he got delt an unfair hand, but it's hard to have a lot of sympathy for a person like that. You know, a criminal.

JSE

I agree and I guess you and I will never find ouselves in such a situation, but if we do and this system is still in operation-well bad luck.
He was executed for not killing a person. Nobody is saying that criminal behaviour is acceptable. It is a more fundamental argument for getting rid of the death Penalty. As long as it remains these gross miscarriages of justice will continue.It is a lot easier to argue these points if you are not involved. If I would follow your thought-" Why not execute all "Criminals" and have it done with". Can you imagine what you are left with. The Third Reich reincarnated. Friends spying on friends and citizens too scared to say what the believe in.

Peace

Bernd

[Resident Loser]

Hi,

Quote
"Those people on death row aren't there because they been good little boys and girls..."

Not quiet so. I give a true story and you decide for yourself.
A young man from Chicago meets a girl from Texas.They do what comes natural she changes shape, he does the honorable thing and ups sticks and moves to Texas to marry her.
He finds it hard to find work meets some older guys (4 in number) and they hook up. They drink and want to score some Dope. No money. A plan is hatched to rob a Gay man. So they pick one up hitch hiking and drive him to a park. Then the two older friends suddenly produce a knife and a gun. All six march to a dark part of the park. The guy hands over his money and the young Chicago man and two of the others go back to the car when they hear gun shots.
All are arrested pretty soon and the two older friends are held together in a cell and get their story right. They point the finger at the young Chicago man. He gets the death penalty they two older ones get 50 and 20 years.
Some years into the Chicago mans appeal one of the older guys admits in writing to his girlfriend and in an interview that Chicago man had nothing to do with the killing of the gay guy.
Didn't seem to matter.
The Chicago man (which was my friend) was killed by the state of Texas on May the 19th last year. No evidence other then the testimony of two known fellons and liars cut his life short and deprived his Daughter of a Dad, his Mother of a Son, his Sister of a Brother and me of a Friend.
TDCJ # 999224
So no DNA could have stopped that.
And one more about DNA. What about Joy Gilchrist in Oklahoma? Be very afraid about incompetent Lab technicians.
And yes I have to agree that vicious animals are to be put down. Most off the time they are made vicious by their keepers or/and through neglect.
By killing citizens you create a whole lot of Hate and more victims. And by killing inocent inmates you create unspeakable pain.And if it is such a correct thing to do-Why not have the executions in public or even better on the TV "IIIIIIIIT'S EXECUTION TIME-right after these messages. I wonder who would advertise. So why kill the condemed in secret.
I always read quotes from the religious freaks about an eye for an eye. If they would read the Bible as they say they do they would find a passage that states That no man shall be punished on the word of just one man alone. Or something to that effect. They are hundreds in the death Camp on such evidence alone.
Let's hope for all our sake that the US can stop this barbaric treatment of humans and become the great Nation that has always been promised.

As for the german accent thing. My country has started two World Wars and Germany has become a most peace loving and tolerant nation through defeat and lesson learned.
My Grandfather was a School Headmaster. In 1936 he was asked to join the Nazi Party. He didn't. The following day he lost his job and cleaned the toilets in the same School and endured abuse by a sinister new young headmaster-but he never budged.
I am very grateful to the US to provide the food for my family during the blockade and I am far from being anti american. Just the way the nation is run by big business and Neo Conservatives is very worrying for many.
Phew.

Peace

Bernd

...maybe just the definition as per Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: com·plic·i·ty
Pronunciation: k&m-'pli-s(&-)tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
1 : association or participation in or as if in a wrongful act
2 : an instance of complicity

Can't find work so he wants to get high? Scoring and using dope is wrong. Picking up a gay man to rob him is wrong...killing him, wronger! Ask me, they all should be pushin' up daisies. Televise it...make it as big as the Superbowl...a sideshow...Hang 'em high...in the town square, have a lottery for the members of the firing squad, sell tickets...never dismiss the penchant for bloodlust. However we, as a state, seem to have some misplaced regard for a humane death with some sort of clinical dignity, or at least privacy, even for the perpetrators of the most barbaric of crimes. Unfortunately, there usually is no similar dignity for the victims, who are merely a grisly segment on the 6 O'clock news. Where is the humanity?

And, may I ask...Why the EU? Isn't that just a continent run by big business? What about all of Europe's progressivism? I get the feeling that with some of of the recent problems, more than a few citizens might enjoy and encourage a more conservative agenda.

The USSR fell apart...what happened? Hussein is gone, take a look at Iraq...be careful what you wish for...

jimHJJ(...it might come true...)

[markw]

Every right wing Government since the second World War has been supported by the U.S. Now that is shameful.

Doe s that include yours? Somebody had to support "right wing" governments unless you wanted all of Europe to wind up under Communist rule. Is that what you wanted?

I see your beloved home country has an unemployment rate of somewhere around 20%. Is that good in your eyes? Oh, that's right. You now live in England.

[markw]

What can we expect next? Maltreatment of the Indians...Slavery?

Next he'll bring up slavery which, as you pointed out, was preputated by Europe.

[Bernd]

Doe s that include yours? Somebody had to support "right wing" governments unless you wanted all of Europe to wind up under Communist rule. Is that what you wanted?

I see your beloved home country has an unemployment rate of somewhere around 20%. Is that good in your eyes? Oh, that's right. You now live in England.

Why do right wing dictatorships need the support of the US?
My homeland was divided and became re-unified in 1989. No precedent of that ever happend. So an under estimation of the task at hand and the realisation of 40 years of non investment is taking it's toll. This is not a slanging match. I am purely here in the UK as my wife does not want to leave her older parents alone, and I love this country as I love my own, but I would never fight for some politicians ideal or lies, or feel the need to invade and occupy another country, or salute a Flag. I apologise for that.
History will show that the foreign policy of the US since the second world war leaves a lot to be desired. And you can shout as much as you want - the US is treating it's citizens with contempt and the world in general as inferior. Wrong on both counts.
You have a great country which is strangled by Lies and Neo Conservatism.

Peace

Bernd

[JSE]

If I would follow your thought-" Why not execute all "Criminals" and have it done with". Can you imagine what you are left with. The Third Reich reincarnated. Friends spying on friends and citizens too scared to say what the believe in.

Peace

Bernd

That's not my thought and I never said that. That would be ridiculous. I do however think we are way to soft on criminals in general. My point is that when you play with fire, you sometimes get burned. Your friend associated and then became a criminal. What did he expect them to say after being arrested? I know you don't agee with this but, the system worked like it was supposed to. The criminals were the flawed part of the system. They lied and schemed to pin it in your friend. How is that the "systems" fault? No system is perfect but ours seems to work pretty well for the most part.

I am just sick and tired of people blaming the "system" instead of blaming the people who commit crimes. The system did not fail. Your friend's soul did. It is 100% his fault he is dead today. Some people just seem to want to always blame everyone else for their problems. It's never their fault. The system wronged him, the other 3 low life scum criminals wronged him, the "right wing" wronged him. Please, he wronged himself over a jones for some weed. That's pathetic. Again, no sympathy here. And, if you are intent on getting rid of the death penalty, you better get a better example of someone being wronged. This case will changed nothing.

JSE

[GMichael]

... Televise it...make it as big as the Superbowl...a sideshow...
jimHJJ(...it might come true...)

Will this be the new halftime show. The Stones (& heads) will roll!

Sorry, not the greatest thing to joke about, but it was calling me.

There's enough blame to go around to any country or any system. I have my complaints about our system. I feel that I was treated unfairly in the past. But can any country or system say that they make no mistakes? If so, let them be the first to throw stones.

As for JFK, we will most likely never know the truth. If it ever does come out, anyone who really cared will be gone.

[markw]

My homeland was divided and became re-unified in 1989. No precedent of that ever happend.

You really don't think the US was responsible for that, do you? Boy, talk about hubris.

[Bernd]

I am not blaming the system for people committing crimes - they are aware of what they are doing when they do it. My point is that as long as the death penalty is in place, there is the likelihood that mistakes will be made and people will die as a result. If a mistake is made and someone is jailed in error - that can be rectified - they can be freed. Death, however, is irreversible and reading the true cases written about by several reputable authors, and having some first hand experience - those mistakes do happen. I agree that in most cases, we are way too soft on criminal behaviour but there are lost of wider issues that need to be addressed - punishment is the loss of freedom itself - why then the need for additional, cruel and inhuman behaviour (for instance, serving breakfast and lunch at bizarre times to disorientate people). Jail is not there to gratify the sadistic tendencies of those who run them - it is there to contain people who have broken the law and had their freedom removed. It is not up to the jailers to take revenge and it is perverse that anyone would want to see a fellow human suffer. Nor is it up to the state to kill people who haven't committed a crime that is punishable by the death penalty. One of my best friends comes from Texas and has decided to live in Germany to end his days as he cannot tolerate the neo-conservatism that prevails in the USA today. He is a 82, a respected concert pianist, author and journalist. He is a learned, well respected man who has gained the Bundesverdienstkreuz, (similar to a knighthood) for establishing and continuing cultural links between Germany and the US. He went back to the USA in 1982 and couldn't stand the climate that prevailed, so returned to Germany.

[Bernd]

You really don't think the US was responsible for that, do you? Boy, talk about hubris.

Don't be such a victim! I didn't say that the USA was responsible - I was stating the reason for the high levels of unemployment - reunification, which was a one time happening.