JFK Assassination

[JSE]

If I would follow your thought-" Why not execute all "Criminals" and have it done with". Can you imagine what you are left with. The Third Reich reincarnated. Friends spying on friends and citizens too scared to say what the believe in.

Peace

Bernd

That's not my thought and I never said that. That would be ridiculous. I do however think we are way to soft on criminals in general. My point is that when you play with fire, you sometimes get burned. Your friend associated and then became a criminal. What did he expect them to say after being arrested? I know you don't agee with this but, the system worked like it was supposed to. The criminals were the flawed part of the system. They lied and schemed to pin it in your friend. How is that the "systems" fault? No system is perfect but ours seems to work pretty well for the most part.

I am just sick and tired of people blaming the "system" instead of blaming the people who commit crimes. The system did not fail. Your friend's soul did. It is 100% his fault he is dead today. Some people just seem to want to always blame everyone else for their problems. It's never their fault. The system wronged him, the other 3 low life scum criminals wronged him, the "right wing" wronged him. Please, he wronged himself over a jones for some weed. That's pathetic. Again, no sympathy here. And, if you are intent on getting rid of the death penalty, you better get a better example of someone being wronged. This case will changed nothing.

JSE

[Bernd]

I am not blaming the system for people committing crimes - they are aware of what they are doing when they do it. My point is that as long as the death penalty is in place, there is the likelihood that mistakes will be made and people will die as a result. If a mistake is made and someone is jailed in error - that can be rectified - they can be freed. Death, however, is irreversible and reading the true cases written about by several reputable authors, and having some first hand experience - those mistakes do happen. I agree that in most cases, we are way too soft on criminal behaviour but there are lost of wider issues that need to be addressed - punishment is the loss of freedom itself - why then the need for additional, cruel and inhuman behaviour (for instance, serving breakfast and lunch at bizarre times to disorientate people). Jail is not there to gratify the sadistic tendencies of those who run them - it is there to contain people who have broken the law and had their freedom removed. It is not up to the jailers to take revenge and it is perverse that anyone would want to see a fellow human suffer. Nor is it up to the state to kill people who haven't committed a crime that is punishable by the death penalty. One of my best friends comes from Texas and has decided to live in Germany to end his days as he cannot tolerate the neo-conservatism that prevails in the USA today. He is a 82, a respected concert pianist, author and journalist. He is a learned, well respected man who has gained the Bundesverdienstkreuz, (similar to a knighthood) for establishing and continuing cultural links between Germany and the US. He went back to the USA in 1982 and couldn't stand the climate that prevailed, so returned to Germany.

[Resident Loser]

...you seem to be a reasonbly intelligent person...let me ask this...Re: books that document these "mistakes"...What book do you think would sell better? One that uses editorializing, ponticifating and finger pointing in an effort to exploit the tragedies that sometimes happen as a result of an imperfect justice system or one that simply documents all the times they (police/prosecutors, the justice system in general) get it right. Which one actually represents the bigger representative number?

Much more emotion (and therfore money) involved in the former, after all who wants to read an almanac with nothing more than facts and figures. Sad to say, history books don't fare well on the best seller lists.

And please don't mix POWs in with a description of the general prison population...it seems many of our convicts have a better life while visiting the old Graybar than they do on the outside...and I doubt they have a problem with their food service. Oh, yeah...there was that warden who served nothing but bologna sandwiches; but I know pepole who just eat nothing but bologna sandwiches, or PB&J, or tuna salad...or horrors, nothing but Big Macs...Now that should be considered cruel and unusual punishment.

jimHJJ(...three-squares, and there's TV, and the gym, and the library...the only chain-gangs I've seen have been picking up litter on highway medians, no rock piles, probably no chains, just Bubba on a horse, with a 12ga....and besides it ain't supposed to be Club Med...)

[Bernd]

...you seem to be a reasonbly intelligent person...let me ask this...Re: books that document these "mistakes"...What book do you think would sell better? One that uses editorializing, ponticifating and finger pointing in an effort to exploit the tragedies that sometimes happen as a result of an imperfect justice system or one that simply documents all the times they (police/prosecutors, the justice system in general) get it right. Which one actually represents the bigger representative number?

Much more emotion (and therfore money) involved in the former, after all who wants to read an almanac with nothing more than facts and figures. Sad to say, history books don't fare well on the best seller lists.

And please don't mix POWs in with a description of the general prison population...it seems many of our convicts have a better life while visiting the old Graybar than they do on the outside...and I doubt they have a problem with their food service. Oh, yeah...there was that warden who served nothing but bologna sandwiches; but I know pepole who just eat nothing but bologna sandwiches, or PB&J, or tuna salad...or horrors, nothing but Big Macs...Now that should be considered cruel and unusual punishment.

jimHJJ(...three-squares, and there's TV, and the gym, and the library...the only chain-gangs I've seen have been picking up litter on highway medians, no rock piles, probably no chains, just Bubba on a horse, with a 12ga....and besides it ain't supposed to be Club Med...)

Reasonbly Intelligent????
I am offended now.
No, but seriously the sensational acounts always sell better. I just feel sad that a government can kill it's people in the name of Justice. Justice and punishment are two different things in my mind. And as a deterent it aint working. So why continue with it?
Good to converse with you. have you escaped the big white?

Peace

Bernd

[Resident Loser]

Justice and punishment are two different things in my mind. And as a deterent it aint working. So why continue with it?
Good to converse with you. have you escaped the big white? Peace

Bernd

As it stands, the operative opinion seems to be, let the punishment fit the crime...when the majority of American public decides otherwise, their elected officials will be pressured to change things...

I don't know, about the deterent factor...crime stats depend on interpretation in many cases...numbers can be fudged and statistics skewed depending on the point one is trying to support...

Nope, winter has returned...big time...approx. 18 inches or so in my neck of the woods...I love it! Central Park got about two feet of the stuff...I know it's an audio forum, but I love the silence afforded by a thick blanket of snow. The aftermath is the usual cabaret...especially for those with SUVs who think they are invincible or the folks who think the gas pedal can power them out of anything!

My Jeep is in the garage, the drifts in my driveway have to be attended to...then engage 4LOW at a crawl and I hope to be be mobile sometime before Friday...'til then it's mass-transit...

jimHJJ(...finally a real chance to test my new tires...)

[Bernd]

As it stands, the operative opinion seems to be, let the punishment fit the crime...when the majority of American public decides otherwise, their elected officials will be pressured to change things...

I don't know, about the deterent factor...crime stats depend on interpretation in many cases...numbers can be fudged and statistics skewed depending on the point one is trying to support...

Nope, winter has returned...big time...approx. 18 inches or so in my neck of the woods...I love it! Central Park got about two feet of the stuff...I know it's an audio forum, but I love the silence afforded by a thick blanket of snow. The aftermath is the usual cabaret...especially for those with SUVs who think they are invincible or the folks who think the gas pedal can power them out of anything!

My Jeep is in the garage, the drifts in my driveway have to be attended to...then engage 4LOW at a crawl and I hope to be be mobile sometime before Friday...'til then it's mass-transit...

jimHJJ(...finally a real chance to test my new tires...)

Well keep warm and stay safe. I agree that a blanket of snow brings some magic.

Bernd