JFK Assassination

[Resident Loser]

...certain traffic offenses would be capital crimes...

...as I would be worried living in a country which kills it's citizens in death camps (what else would you call Death Row).
Arnold Schwarzenegger for President-Holy ****, God help us all.

Peace

Bernd

If I wuz you, I'd watch the "death camp" analogy...What about the victim's of those poor, poor politcal prisoners? Since I'm sure that's the next characterization, just some pre-emptive activity on my part.

Those "people" on death row aren't there because they've been good little boys and girls...given the fact the appeals process is what it is, they can write books, find God, become jailhouse lawyers, and all the rest...what about the victims?...and their plans, their families, their lack of a future?..."Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord", but the Lord works in mysterious ways...And now with DNA testing, perhaps there are fewer chances for any mistakes.

They put down vicious animals with four legs, no reason they shouldn't do the ones with two. Besides, life in prison/no parole is a viable option for cases with obvious extenuating circumstances...for premeditated murder in the first, I say lock and load.

jimHJJ(...BTW, the Governator is naturalized, the Constitution would need to be changed...I don't see that happnin'...Wasn't this a thread about the Kennedy assassination?...I think there may have been a conspiracy...I don't know how or why or who, and I'd venture a guess we probably never will...for sure...)

[markw]

Wasn't this a thread about the Kennedy assassination

You know how it is. Ferriners with a lousy economy and high unemplotment that got their arses wupped in WW2 for trying to take over the world and exterminate Jews just love dumping on the US.

[Resident Loser]

...(on a subject waaay off-topic) Howdja make out with el Blizzardo?

You know how it is. Ferriners with a lousy economy and high unemplotment that got their arses wupped in WW2 for trying to take over the world and exterminate Jews just love dumping on the US.

What can we expect next? Maltreatment of the Indians...Slavery? Let's do a little more pre-emptive responding...Anyone care to remember it was the Europeans what started 'em both?

jimHJJ(...geez, some of this stuff is SOOO tedious...)

[markw]

...(on a subject waaay off-topic) Howdja make out with el Blizzardo?

24 inches, not counting drifting. Having to park on the street (Jersey has cities, too) and dealing with a conscientious gang of street plows assured me of plenty of exercise digging out our cars.

What can we expect next? Maltreatment of the Indians...Slavery? Let's do a little more pre-emptive responding...Anyone care to remember it was the Europeans what started 'em both?

Probably something equally inappropiate thet they have no real idea about. After all, they think they're the cradle of political and personal freedom, the facts you mention notwithstanding.

Gee, do ya really think a unified Europe will handle this Iraq situation like they say? ...do you really think they are able to?

After all, they are a heckuva lot closer than we are and missles only have a limited range.

[Bernd]

24 inches, not counting drifting. Having to park on the street (Jersey has cities, too) and dealing with a conscientious gang of street plows assured me of plenty of exercise digging out our cars.



Probably something equally inappropiate thet they have no real idea about. After all, they think they're the cradle of political and personal freedom, the facts you mention notwithstanding.

Gee, do ya really think a unified Europe will handle this Iraq situation like they say? ...do you really think they are able to?

After all, they are a heckuva lot closer than we are and missles only have a limited range.

Yes Native Americans were treated appallingly and were lied to.
My response had nothing to do with "Dumping on the US". But the track record of America isn't too good. Every right wing Government since the second World War has been supported by the U.S. Now that is shameful.

Peace

Bernd

[markw]

Every right wing Government since the second World War has been supported by the U.S. Now that is shameful.

Doe s that include yours? Somebody had to support "right wing" governments unless you wanted all of Europe to wind up under Communist rule. Is that what you wanted?

I see your beloved home country has an unemployment rate of somewhere around 20%. Is that good in your eyes? Oh, that's right. You now live in England.

[Bernd]

Doe s that include yours? Somebody had to support "right wing" governments unless you wanted all of Europe to wind up under Communist rule. Is that what you wanted?

I see your beloved home country has an unemployment rate of somewhere around 20%. Is that good in your eyes? Oh, that's right. You now live in England.

Why do right wing dictatorships need the support of the US?
My homeland was divided and became re-unified in 1989. No precedent of that ever happend. So an under estimation of the task at hand and the realisation of 40 years of non investment is taking it's toll. This is not a slanging match. I am purely here in the UK as my wife does not want to leave her older parents alone, and I love this country as I love my own, but I would never fight for some politicians ideal or lies, or feel the need to invade and occupy another country, or salute a Flag. I apologise for that.
History will show that the foreign policy of the US since the second world war leaves a lot to be desired. And you can shout as much as you want - the US is treating it's citizens with contempt and the world in general as inferior. Wrong on both counts.
You have a great country which is strangled by Lies and Neo Conservatism.

Peace

Bernd

[markw]

What can we expect next? Maltreatment of the Indians...Slavery?

Next he'll bring up slavery which, as you pointed out, was preputated by Europe.

[Bernd]

...certain traffic offenses would be capital crimes...



If I wuz you, I'd watch the "death camp" analogy...What about the victim's of those poor, poor politcal prisoners? Since I'm sure that's the next characterization, just some pre-emptive activity on my part.

Those "people" on death row aren't there because they've been good little boys and girls...given the fact the appeals process is what it is, they can write books, find God, become jailhouse lawyers, and all the rest...what about the victims?...and their plans, their families, their lack of a future?..."Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord", but the Lord works in mysterious ways...And now with DNA testing, perhaps there are fewer chances for any mistakes.

They put down vicious animals with four legs, no reason they shouldn't do the ones with two. Besides, life in prison/no parole is a viable option for cases with obvious extenuating circumstances...for premeditated murder in the first, I say lock and load.

jimHJJ(...BTW, the Governator is naturalized, the Constitution would need to be changed...I don't see that happnin'...Wasn't this a thread about the Kennedy assassination?...I think there may have been a conspiracy...I don't know how or why or who, and I'd venture a guess we probably never will...for sure...)

Hi,

Quote
"Those people on death row aren't there because they been good little boys and girls..."

Not quiet so. I give a true story and you decide for yourself.
A young man from Chicago meets a girl from Texas.They do what comes natural she changes shape, he does the honorable thing and ups sticks and moves to Texas to marry her.
He finds it hard to find work meets some older guys (4 in number) and they hook up. They drink and want to score some Dope. No money. A plan is hatched to rob a Gay man. So they pick one up hitch hiking and drive him to a park. Then the two older friends suddenly produce a knife and a gun. All six march to a dark part of the park. The guy hands over his money and the young Chicago man and two of the others go back to the car when they hear gun shots.
All are arrested pretty soon and the two older friends are held together in a cell and get their story right. They point the finger at the young Chicago man. He gets the death penalty they two older ones get 50 and 20 years.
Some years into the Chicago mans appeal one of the older guys admits in writing to his girlfriend and in an interview that Chicago man had nothing to do with the killing of the gay guy.
Didn't seem to matter.
The Chicago man (which was my friend) was killed by the state of Texas on May the 19th last year. No evidence other then the testimony of two known fellons and liars cut his life short and deprived his Daughter of a Dad, his Mother of a Son, his Sister of a Brother and me of a Friend.
TDCJ # 999224
So no DNA could have stopped that.
And one more about DNA. What about Joy Gilchrist in Oklahoma? Be very afraid about incompetent Lab technicians.
And yes I have to agree that vicious animals are to be put down. Most off the time they are made vicious by their keepers or/and through neglect.
By killing citizens you create a whole lot of Hate and more victims. And by killing inocent inmates you create unspeakable pain.And if it is such a correct thing to do-Why not have the executions in public or even better on the TV "IIIIIIIIT'S EXECUTION TIME-right after these messages. I wonder who would advertise. So why kill the condemed in secret.
I always read quotes from the religious freaks about an eye for an eye. If they would read the Bible as they say they do they would find a passage that states That no man shall be punished on the word of just one man alone. Or something to that effect. They are hundreds in the death Camp on such evidence alone.
Let's hope for all our sake that the US can stop this barbaric treatment of humans and become the great Nation that has always been promised.

As for the german accent thing. My country has started two World Wars and Germany has become a most peace loving and tolerant nation through defeat and lesson learned.
My Grandfather was a School Headmaster. In 1936 he was asked to join the Nazi Party. He didn't. The following day he lost his job and cleaned the toilets in the same School and endured abuse by a sinister new young headmaster-but he never budged.
I am very grateful to the US to provide the food for my family during the blockade and I am far from being anti american. Just the way the nation is run by big business and Neo Conservatives is very worrying for many.
Phew.

Peace

Bernd

[JSE]

The Chicago man (which was my friend) was killed by the state of Texas on May the 19th last year. No evidence other then the testimony of two known fellons and liars cut his life short and deprived his Daughter of a Dad, his Mother of a Son, his Sister of a Brother and me of a Friend.
TDCJ # 999224
So no DNA could have stopped that.

Maybe he should have been thinking about his family when he was holding up the man? Sounds like a real "stand up" guy. Fair or not, he made a choice that day and has now suffered consequences. Sounds like he got delt an unfair hand, but it's hard to have a lot of sympathy for a person like that. You know, a criminal.

JSE

[Bernd]

Maybe he should have been thinking about his family when he was holding up the man? Sounds like a real "stand up" guy. Fair or not, he made a choice that day and has now suffered consequences. Sounds like he got delt an unfair hand, but it's hard to have a lot of sympathy for a person like that. You know, a criminal.

JSE

I agree and I guess you and I will never find ouselves in such a situation, but if we do and this system is still in operation-well bad luck.
He was executed for not killing a person. Nobody is saying that criminal behaviour is acceptable. It is a more fundamental argument for getting rid of the death Penalty. As long as it remains these gross miscarriages of justice will continue.It is a lot easier to argue these points if you are not involved. If I would follow your thought-" Why not execute all "Criminals" and have it done with". Can you imagine what you are left with. The Third Reich reincarnated. Friends spying on friends and citizens too scared to say what the believe in.

Peace

Bernd

[JSE]

If I would follow your thought-" Why not execute all "Criminals" and have it done with". Can you imagine what you are left with. The Third Reich reincarnated. Friends spying on friends and citizens too scared to say what the believe in.

Peace

Bernd

That's not my thought and I never said that. That would be ridiculous. I do however think we are way to soft on criminals in general. My point is that when you play with fire, you sometimes get burned. Your friend associated and then became a criminal. What did he expect them to say after being arrested? I know you don't agee with this but, the system worked like it was supposed to. The criminals were the flawed part of the system. They lied and schemed to pin it in your friend. How is that the "systems" fault? No system is perfect but ours seems to work pretty well for the most part.

I am just sick and tired of people blaming the "system" instead of blaming the people who commit crimes. The system did not fail. Your friend's soul did. It is 100% his fault he is dead today. Some people just seem to want to always blame everyone else for their problems. It's never their fault. The system wronged him, the other 3 low life scum criminals wronged him, the "right wing" wronged him. Please, he wronged himself over a jones for some weed. That's pathetic. Again, no sympathy here. And, if you are intent on getting rid of the death penalty, you better get a better example of someone being wronged. This case will changed nothing.

JSE

[Bernd]

I am not blaming the system for people committing crimes - they are aware of what they are doing when they do it. My point is that as long as the death penalty is in place, there is the likelihood that mistakes will be made and people will die as a result. If a mistake is made and someone is jailed in error - that can be rectified - they can be freed. Death, however, is irreversible and reading the true cases written about by several reputable authors, and having some first hand experience - those mistakes do happen. I agree that in most cases, we are way too soft on criminal behaviour but there are lost of wider issues that need to be addressed - punishment is the loss of freedom itself - why then the need for additional, cruel and inhuman behaviour (for instance, serving breakfast and lunch at bizarre times to disorientate people). Jail is not there to gratify the sadistic tendencies of those who run them - it is there to contain people who have broken the law and had their freedom removed. It is not up to the jailers to take revenge and it is perverse that anyone would want to see a fellow human suffer. Nor is it up to the state to kill people who haven't committed a crime that is punishable by the death penalty. One of my best friends comes from Texas and has decided to live in Germany to end his days as he cannot tolerate the neo-conservatism that prevails in the USA today. He is a 82, a respected concert pianist, author and journalist. He is a learned, well respected man who has gained the Bundesverdienstkreuz, (similar to a knighthood) for establishing and continuing cultural links between Germany and the US. He went back to the USA in 1982 and couldn't stand the climate that prevailed, so returned to Germany.

[Resident Loser]

...you seem to be a reasonbly intelligent person...let me ask this...Re: books that document these "mistakes"...What book do you think would sell better? One that uses editorializing, ponticifating and finger pointing in an effort to exploit the tragedies that sometimes happen as a result of an imperfect justice system or one that simply documents all the times they (police/prosecutors, the justice system in general) get it right. Which one actually represents the bigger representative number?

Much more emotion (and therfore money) involved in the former, after all who wants to read an almanac with nothing more than facts and figures. Sad to say, history books don't fare well on the best seller lists.

And please don't mix POWs in with a description of the general prison population...it seems many of our convicts have a better life while visiting the old Graybar than they do on the outside...and I doubt they have a problem with their food service. Oh, yeah...there was that warden who served nothing but bologna sandwiches; but I know pepole who just eat nothing but bologna sandwiches, or PB&J, or tuna salad...or horrors, nothing but Big Macs...Now that should be considered cruel and unusual punishment.

jimHJJ(...three-squares, and there's TV, and the gym, and the library...the only chain-gangs I've seen have been picking up litter on highway medians, no rock piles, probably no chains, just Bubba on a horse, with a 12ga....and besides it ain't supposed to be Club Med...)

[Resident Loser]

Hi,

Quote
"Those people on death row aren't there because they been good little boys and girls..."

Not quiet so. I give a true story and you decide for yourself.
A young man from Chicago meets a girl from Texas.They do what comes natural she changes shape, he does the honorable thing and ups sticks and moves to Texas to marry her.
He finds it hard to find work meets some older guys (4 in number) and they hook up. They drink and want to score some Dope. No money. A plan is hatched to rob a Gay man. So they pick one up hitch hiking and drive him to a park. Then the two older friends suddenly produce a knife and a gun. All six march to a dark part of the park. The guy hands over his money and the young Chicago man and two of the others go back to the car when they hear gun shots.
All are arrested pretty soon and the two older friends are held together in a cell and get their story right. They point the finger at the young Chicago man. He gets the death penalty they two older ones get 50 and 20 years.
Some years into the Chicago mans appeal one of the older guys admits in writing to his girlfriend and in an interview that Chicago man had nothing to do with the killing of the gay guy.
Didn't seem to matter.
The Chicago man (which was my friend) was killed by the state of Texas on May the 19th last year. No evidence other then the testimony of two known fellons and liars cut his life short and deprived his Daughter of a Dad, his Mother of a Son, his Sister of a Brother and me of a Friend.
TDCJ # 999224
So no DNA could have stopped that.
And one more about DNA. What about Joy Gilchrist in Oklahoma? Be very afraid about incompetent Lab technicians.
And yes I have to agree that vicious animals are to be put down. Most off the time they are made vicious by their keepers or/and through neglect.
By killing citizens you create a whole lot of Hate and more victims. And by killing inocent inmates you create unspeakable pain.And if it is such a correct thing to do-Why not have the executions in public or even better on the TV "IIIIIIIIT'S EXECUTION TIME-right after these messages. I wonder who would advertise. So why kill the condemed in secret.
I always read quotes from the religious freaks about an eye for an eye. If they would read the Bible as they say they do they would find a passage that states That no man shall be punished on the word of just one man alone. Or something to that effect. They are hundreds in the death Camp on such evidence alone.
Let's hope for all our sake that the US can stop this barbaric treatment of humans and become the great Nation that has always been promised.

As for the german accent thing. My country has started two World Wars and Germany has become a most peace loving and tolerant nation through defeat and lesson learned.
My Grandfather was a School Headmaster. In 1936 he was asked to join the Nazi Party. He didn't. The following day he lost his job and cleaned the toilets in the same School and endured abuse by a sinister new young headmaster-but he never budged.
I am very grateful to the US to provide the food for my family during the blockade and I am far from being anti american. Just the way the nation is run by big business and Neo Conservatives is very worrying for many.
Phew.

Peace

Bernd

...maybe just the definition as per Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: com·plic·i·ty
Pronunciation: k&m-'pli-s(&-)tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
1 : association or participation in or as if in a wrongful act
2 : an instance of complicity

Can't find work so he wants to get high? Scoring and using dope is wrong. Picking up a gay man to rob him is wrong...killing him, wronger! Ask me, they all should be pushin' up daisies. Televise it...make it as big as the Superbowl...a sideshow...Hang 'em high...in the town square, have a lottery for the members of the firing squad, sell tickets...never dismiss the penchant for bloodlust. However we, as a state, seem to have some misplaced regard for a humane death with some sort of clinical dignity, or at least privacy, even for the perpetrators of the most barbaric of crimes. Unfortunately, there usually is no similar dignity for the victims, who are merely a grisly segment on the 6 O'clock news. Where is the humanity?

And, may I ask...Why the EU? Isn't that just a continent run by big business? What about all of Europe's progressivism? I get the feeling that with some of of the recent problems, more than a few citizens might enjoy and encourage a more conservative agenda.

The USSR fell apart...what happened? Hussein is gone, take a look at Iraq...be careful what you wish for...

jimHJJ(...it might come true...)

[GMichael]

... Televise it...make it as big as the Superbowl...a sideshow...
jimHJJ(...it might come true...)

Will this be the new halftime show. The Stones (& heads) will roll!

Sorry, not the greatest thing to joke about, but it was calling me.

There's enough blame to go around to any country or any system. I have my complaints about our system. I feel that I was treated unfairly in the past. But can any country or system say that they make no mistakes? If so, let them be the first to throw stones.

As for JFK, we will most likely never know the truth. If it ever does come out, anyone who really cared will be gone.

[Bernd]

Will this be the new halftime show. The Stones (& heads) will roll!

Sorry, not the greatest thing to joke about, but it was calling me.

There's enough blame to go around to any country or any system. I have my complaints about our system. I feel that I was treated unfairly in the past. But can any country or system say that they make no mistakes? If so, let them be the first to throw stones.

As for JFK, we will most likely never know the truth. If it ever does come out, anyone who really cared will be gone.

Hello GMichael and thank you for joining the discussion. I am not America bashing - this started as a discussion about the JFK assassination. Hope you can follow it! It now seems to have spread rather wider. The BOT has disappeared again! How are the snow drifts?

Bernd

[GMichael]

Hello GMichael and thank you for joining the discussion. I am not America bashing - this started as a discussion about the JFK assassination. Hope you can follow it! It now seems to have spread rather wider. The BOT has disappeared again! How are the snow drifts?

Bernd

The BOT is making a comeback. Much warmer today. We got lucky. We were on the fringe and only got about 5-6 inches. No biggie.
I try to stay out of political discussions. I have enough stress at work.

[Bernd]

The BOT is making a comeback. Much warmer today. We got lucky. We were on the fringe and only got about 5-6 inches. No biggie.
I try to stay out of political discussions. I have enough stress at work.

I am glad you got off lightly. It's warmer here, too. I don't like political discussions either, but I think I have been damaged genetically to stand up for fairness and the right of the individual. I hate being dictated and lied too by the people who should serve us.

Bernd