Blu Tide Continues to Turn: Porn Studios Ready to Abandon HD-DVD?

[hermanv]

Herman, I would hardly call 600,000 standalones, and 8 million PS3 world wide dismal sales. I would hardly call sales of disc which I believe would be about 6 million in 2007 alone terrible this early in a fomats release. Also take into consideration what happened to sales POST the Warner announcement. The format war has clearly taken its toll in the short run, but after that announcement, things changed pretty dramatically number wise.

I didn't say the sales were dismal, According to CNET both Blu Ray and HD-DVD manufacturers did.

Me I wouldn't really know where break even occurs. I am an early adapter of new (but stable) technologies, I'll wait.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I didn't say the sales were dismal, According to CNET both Blu Ray and HD-DVD manufacturers did.

Me I wouldn't really know where break even occurs. I am an early adapter of new (but stable) technologies, I'll wait.

I have not heard a single manufacturer especially of a bluray player make a claim that sales were dismal. They are furthur along than DVD was at this period in its life.

How do you know if a technology is stable if you do not own it? If you are speaking technically, my PS3 has performed flawlessly. Neither my XA-2 or A-35 have.

If you are referring to the viability of bluray itself, I would say after the Warner announcement things pretty much stablized. It is much like DVD after DIVX died. DVD player sales took off, after the Warner annoucement so did bluray player sales. On DVD disc sales took off(as did rentals) after DIVX died, after the Warner annoucement disc sales with from 71-29% in favor of bluray to 85-15% in favor of bluray. Overall volumes went up as well as the percentage of sales. Paramount will go bluray in the middle of the year, and Universal will go bluray before christmas. With all of the studio supporting bluray, it will do just fine.

[hermanv]

By CNET News.com Staff
Published: October 16, 2007 2:48 PM PDT

Listen Now

Could the smartest choice be buying neither HD format?;

HD DVD or Blu-ray? Could the smartest choice be neither of the two? The high-definition DVD formats are competing for your dollars, but the best investment may be to hurry up and wait. Sales of both formats aren't doing nearly as well as plain old DVDs, and the true future of at-home HD movies will probably be fully digital. CNET News.com's Erica Ogg explains why neither format may be in it for the long haul.

By Erica Ogg
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
Published: October 15, 2007, 4:00 AM PDT

False starts in race to future of DVDs

Is all of this Blu-ray Disc versus HD DVD bickering much ado about nothing?

Many column inches and much screen space have been filled with discussions of a "war" between two rival next-generation DVD formats. On one hand, it's understandable: the opposing camps are manned by the world's leading technology companies and the biggest names in film and television: Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard, Apple, Dell, Intel, Sony, Toshiba, Samsung, 20th Century Fox, Universal, Warner Bros., Paramount, MGM and many more.

But more than 18 months after the launch of both formats, the question remains, should the average consumer care? Most would say, "not yet." Both sides are still engaged in a battle for consumer attention and dollars, while some are prematurely declaring victory. (Panasonic is the most recent to predict Blu-ray--which it is backing exclusively--will be the undisputed champion.)

There is no guarantee either of these formats will still be viable 12 months from now, so it's unclear why the casual movie fan would consider investing in either side at all--particular because the price of the players and discs are still relatively high. More importantly, many consumers think regular old DVDs are perfectly fine.

The studios and hardware makers on both sides are betting heavily on launching a new format, of course. But all the bickering and public posturing over the last year looks patently ridiculous when one considers how few discs and players these industry giants are actually arguing over.

Case in point: 300 is the fastest-selling next-generation title so far, according to Warner Bros., which says it sold 250,000 high-definition copies of it in the first week. (How fitting that the most successful next-generation movie thus far is about a group of warriors waging an unwinnable battle).

At an industry conference last week, representatives from Microsoft (HD DVD), Sony and Pioneer (Blu-ray), sniped at each other over the number of copies of 300 sold on each format. Blu-ray claims its version of the disc outsold HD DVD's by a margin of two to one in the first week. The breakdown was actually 65 percent Blu-ray, 35 percent HD DVD, according to a Warner Bros. representative.

But only when you consider that the studio sold more than 5 million copies of 300 on standard DVD does it become clear that all this posturing is over less than 5 percent of sales. On the hardware side, DisplaySearch said 5 percent of sales of standalone DVD players in September were either HD DVD or Blu-ray.

For now, both sides are priming the pump to create awareness for a technology that, currently, most consumers can't necessarily even take advantage of because they need a full high-definition (1080p) television to get the maximum effect of an HD DVD or Blu-ray movie.

"It's a different sell if you don't have an HDTV set yet," said Paul Erickson, director of DVD and HD market research for DisplaySearch. "Most of the appeal (of a next-generation player) will come from (having) 1080p. While that may be the standard in the future, 720p is still selling very strongly."
"DVD is a victim of its own success. It's a good technology."
--Josh Martin, analyst, Yankee Group

Luckily for the backers of both formats, high-definition TV sets are selling well these days. Eight out of every 10 TVs sold in the month of August were HDTVs, according to the NPD Group. And 1080p adoption is on the upswing as well; sales of 40-inch and larger LCD TVs that output 1080p resolution have increased more than 40 percent in the last year, according to data from DisplaySearch.

But NPD uncovered a very telling statistic in its 2007 report on high-definition video: 73 percent of current HDTV owners "are satisfied with DVD and don't feel the need to replace" their current players.

Ultimately, DVDs are good enough for most people. Most consumers probably already own a DVD player. If they don't, the average price is certainly more attractive than those of either HD DVD or Blu-ray players. Though prices of both have come way down in the last nine months, the average price for next-generation DVD players is $390 more than standard DVD players.

"DVD is a victim of its own success. It's a good technology," said Josh Martin, an analyst with Yankee Group Research. Plus, the step up to DVD from VHS tapes is not analogous to the step up from DVD to high-definition discs. "Next-gen isn't redefining, it's more tweaking of the technology. Content owners think it's a bigger leap, but consumers look at (a next-generation disc), and it's a disc, and it's not worth $600 or whatever" for the player to go with it.

Some would argue the biggest roadblock in Blu-ray and HD DVD's aspirations of becoming the standard in home video actually isn't the format competition--it's inexpensive, so-called upconverting DVD players, or standard players that have the ability to take regular DVDs and translate them into 1080p, the same resolution as Blu-ray and HD DVD. Though the studios and hardware makers will argue that it's just not the same as the movies recorded and played back in 1080p, it will be good enough for the average consumer.

[pixelthis]

By CNET News.com Staff
Published: October 16, 2007 2:48 PM PDT

Listen Now

Could the smartest choice be buying neither HD format?;

HD DVD or Blu-ray? Could the smartest choice be neither of the two? The high-definition DVD formats are competing for your dollars, but the best investment may be to hurry up and wait. Sales of both formats aren't doing nearly as well as plain old DVDs, and the true future of at-home HD movies will probably be fully digital. CNET News.com's Erica Ogg explains why neither format may be in it for the long haul.

By Erica Ogg
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
Published: October 15, 2007, 4:00 AM PDT

False starts in race to future of DVDs

Is all of this Blu-ray Disc versus HD DVD bickering much ado about nothing?

Many column inches and much screen space have been filled with discussions of a "war" between two rival next-generation DVD formats. On one hand, it's understandable: the opposing camps are manned by the world's leading technology companies and the biggest names in film and television: Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard, Apple, Dell, Intel, Sony, Toshiba, Samsung, 20th Century Fox, Universal, Warner Bros., Paramount, MGM and many more.

But more than 18 months after the launch of both formats, the question remains, should the average consumer care? Most would say, "not yet." Both sides are still engaged in a battle for consumer attention and dollars, while some are prematurely declaring victory. (Panasonic is the most recent to predict Blu-ray--which it is backing exclusively--will be the undisputed champion.)

There is no guarantee either of these formats will still be viable 12 months from now, so it's unclear why the casual movie fan would consider investing in either side at all--particular because the price of the players and discs are still relatively high. More importantly, many consumers think regular old DVDs are perfectly fine.

The studios and hardware makers on both sides are betting heavily on launching a new format, of course. But all the bickering and public posturing over the last year looks patently ridiculous when one considers how few discs and players these industry giants are actually arguing over.

Case in point: 300 is the fastest-selling next-generation title so far, according to Warner Bros., which says it sold 250,000 high-definition copies of it in the first week. (How fitting that the most successful next-generation movie thus far is about a group of warriors waging an unwinnable battle).

At an industry conference last week, representatives from Microsoft (HD DVD), Sony and Pioneer (Blu-ray), sniped at each other over the number of copies of 300 sold on each format. Blu-ray claims its version of the disc outsold HD DVD's by a margin of two to one in the first week. The breakdown was actually 65 percent Blu-ray, 35 percent HD DVD, according to a Warner Bros. representative.

But only when you consider that the studio sold more than 5 million copies of 300 on standard DVD does it become clear that all this posturing is over less than 5 percent of sales. On the hardware side, DisplaySearch said 5 percent of sales of standalone DVD players in September were either HD DVD or Blu-ray.

For now, both sides are priming the pump to create awareness for a technology that, currently, most consumers can't necessarily even take advantage of because they need a full high-definition (1080p) television to get the maximum effect of an HD DVD or Blu-ray movie.

"It's a different sell if you don't have an HDTV set yet," said Paul Erickson, director of DVD and HD market research for DisplaySearch. "Most of the appeal (of a next-generation player) will come from (having) 1080p. While that may be the standard in the future, 720p is still selling very strongly."
"DVD is a victim of its own success. It's a good technology."
--Josh Martin, analyst, Yankee Group

Luckily for the backers of both formats, high-definition TV sets are selling well these days. Eight out of every 10 TVs sold in the month of August were HDTVs, according to the NPD Group. And 1080p adoption is on the upswing as well; sales of 40-inch and larger LCD TVs that output 1080p resolution have increased more than 40 percent in the last year, according to data from DisplaySearch.

But NPD uncovered a very telling statistic in its 2007 report on high-definition video: 73 percent of current HDTV owners "are satisfied with DVD and don't feel the need to replace" their current players.

Ultimately, DVDs are good enough for most people. Most consumers probably already own a DVD player. If they don't, the average price is certainly more attractive than those of either HD DVD or Blu-ray players. Though prices of both have come way down in the last nine months, the average price for next-generation DVD players is $390 more than standard DVD players.

"DVD is a victim of its own success. It's a good technology," said Josh Martin, an analyst with Yankee Group Research. Plus, the step up to DVD from VHS tapes is not analogous to the step up from DVD to high-definition discs. "Next-gen isn't redefining, it's more tweaking of the technology. Content owners think it's a bigger leap, but consumers look at (a next-generation disc), and it's a disc, and it's not worth $600 or whatever" for the player to go with it.

Some would argue the biggest roadblock in Blu-ray and HD DVD's aspirations of becoming the standard in home video actually isn't the format competition--it's inexpensive, so-called upconverting DVD players, or standard players that have the ability to take regular DVDs and translate them into 1080p, the same resolution as Blu-ray and HD DVD. Though the studios and hardware makers will argue that it's just not the same as the movies recorded and played back in 1080p, it will be good enough for the average consumer.

GEE WIZ!
This is basically what I have been saying, just to be called a "51 year old man who doesn't
know what hes' talking about" by sir talky.
This just goes to show that talky has an agenda and is pushing it, quite often at the expense of reality.
DONT underestimate the tolerance of teh American public for a crappy picture, to most
DVD IS fine, especially with a format that, like I said is more evolutionary than revolutionary.
As for Sonys credibilty , forget about the movie scam, what about putting anti-copy viruses on their CD's that screw up your hard drive? like they did mine?
Too bad that they make such exelent disc players and monitirs, or I'D toss em off completely

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

GEE WIZ!
This is basically what I have been saying, just to be called a "51 year old man who doesn't
know what hes' talking about" by sir talky.
This just goes to show that talky has an agenda and is pushing it, quite often at the expense of reality.
DONT underestimate the tolerance of teh American public for a crappy picture, to most
DVD IS fine, especially with a format that, like I said is more evolutionary than revolutionary.
As for Sonys credibilty , forget about the movie scam, what about putting anti-copy viruses on their CD's that screw up your hard drive? like they did mine?
Too bad that they make such exelent disc players and monitirs, or I'D toss em off completely

You would jump up and down over an old dated opinion piece not built on the facts.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

By CNET News.com Staff
Published: October 16, 2007 2:48 PM PDT

Listen Now

Could the smartest choice be buying neither HD format?;

HD DVD or Blu-ray? Could the smartest choice be neither of the two? The high-definition DVD formats are competing for your dollars, but the best investment may be to hurry up and wait. Sales of both formats aren't doing nearly as well as plain old DVDs, and the true future of at-home HD movies will probably be fully digital. CNET News.com's Erica Ogg explains why neither format may be in it for the long haul.

By Erica Ogg
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
Published: October 15, 2007, 4:00 AM PDT

False starts in race to future of DVDs

Is all of this Blu-ray Disc versus HD DVD bickering much ado about nothing?

Many column inches and much screen space have been filled with discussions of a "war" between two rival next-generation DVD formats. On one hand, it's understandable: the opposing camps are manned by the world's leading technology companies and the biggest names in film and television: Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard, Apple, Dell, Intel, Sony, Toshiba, Samsung, 20th Century Fox, Universal, Warner Bros., Paramount, MGM and many more.

But more than 18 months after the launch of both formats, the question remains, should the average consumer care? Most would say, "not yet." Both sides are still engaged in a battle for consumer attention and dollars, while some are prematurely declaring victory. (Panasonic is the most recent to predict Blu-ray--which it is backing exclusively--will be the undisputed champion.)

There is no guarantee either of these formats will still be viable 12 months from now, so it's unclear why the casual movie fan would consider investing in either side at all--particular because the price of the players and discs are still relatively high. More importantly, many consumers think regular old DVDs are perfectly fine.

The studios and hardware makers on both sides are betting heavily on launching a new format, of course. But all the bickering and public posturing over the last year looks patently ridiculous when one considers how few discs and players these industry giants are actually arguing over.

Case in point: 300 is the fastest-selling next-generation title so far, according to Warner Bros., which says it sold 250,000 high-definition copies of it in the first week. (How fitting that the most successful next-generation movie thus far is about a group of warriors waging an unwinnable battle).

At an industry conference last week, representatives from Microsoft (HD DVD), Sony and Pioneer (Blu-ray), sniped at each other over the number of copies of 300 sold on each format. Blu-ray claims its version of the disc outsold HD DVD's by a margin of two to one in the first week. The breakdown was actually 65 percent Blu-ray, 35 percent HD DVD, according to a Warner Bros. representative.

But only when you consider that the studio sold more than 5 million copies of 300 on standard DVD does it become clear that all this posturing is over less than 5 percent of sales. On the hardware side, DisplaySearch said 5 percent of sales of standalone DVD players in September were either HD DVD or Blu-ray.

For now, both sides are priming the pump to create awareness for a technology that, currently, most consumers can't necessarily even take advantage of because they need a full high-definition (1080p) television to get the maximum effect of an HD DVD or Blu-ray movie.

"It's a different sell if you don't have an HDTV set yet," said Paul Erickson, director of DVD and HD market research for DisplaySearch. "Most of the appeal (of a next-generation player) will come from (having) 1080p. While that may be the standard in the future, 720p is still selling very strongly."
"DVD is a victim of its own success. It's a good technology."
--Josh Martin, analyst, Yankee Group

Luckily for the backers of both formats, high-definition TV sets are selling well these days. Eight out of every 10 TVs sold in the month of August were HDTVs, according to the NPD Group. And 1080p adoption is on the upswing as well; sales of 40-inch and larger LCD TVs that output 1080p resolution have increased more than 40 percent in the last year, according to data from DisplaySearch.

But NPD uncovered a very telling statistic in its 2007 report on high-definition video: 73 percent of current HDTV owners "are satisfied with DVD and don't feel the need to replace" their current players.

Ultimately, DVDs are good enough for most people. Most consumers probably already own a DVD player. If they don't, the average price is certainly more attractive than those of either HD DVD or Blu-ray players. Though prices of both have come way down in the last nine months, the average price for next-generation DVD players is $390 more than standard DVD players.

"DVD is a victim of its own success. It's a good technology," said Josh Martin, an analyst with Yankee Group Research. Plus, the step up to DVD from VHS tapes is not analogous to the step up from DVD to high-definition discs. "Next-gen isn't redefining, it's more tweaking of the technology. Content owners think it's a bigger leap, but consumers look at (a next-generation disc), and it's a disc, and it's not worth $600 or whatever" for the player to go with it.

Some would argue the biggest roadblock in Blu-ray and HD DVD's aspirations of becoming the standard in home video actually isn't the format competition--it's inexpensive, so-called upconverting DVD players, or standard players that have the ability to take regular DVDs and translate them into 1080p, the same resolution as Blu-ray and HD DVD. Though the studios and hardware makers will argue that it's just not the same as the movies recorded and played back in 1080p, it will be good enough for the average consumer.

This is an opinion piece, not fact.
It is also dated, much has changed since it was written.

[hermanv]

This is an opinion piece, not fact.
It is also dated, much has changed since it was written.

By golly you are right, it has been a whole 3 months since these opinions about actual sales figures were posted.

[Woochifer]

By golly you are right, it has been a whole 3 months since these opinions about actual sales figures were posted.

As T pointed out, three months is an eternity in this format war. Can't use old market data to support a current argument, especially if the market itself has shifted significantly in the meantime.

When those opinions were posted, Paramount/Dreamworks had just dumped Blu-ray less than 2 months prior, which narrowed down Blu-ray's studio support advantage. At that time, HD-DVD still had a slight advantage in standalone player sales, but with a smaller installed user base because of the PS3. Blu-ray probably would have still won out in the end, but the format war under those conditions would have persisted well into 2008 and maybe 2009.

Fast forward to January 2008, now Warner (which controls about 40% of the overall HD disc media market) has announced that it will dump HD-DVD, which effectively relegates the format to about 1/4 of the market. In the aftermath of Warner's announcement, Blu-ray's week-to-week disc sales advantage increased from ~2-to-1 to more than 4-to-1, and the sales of HD-DVD players dropped by more than 80%.

Remember that Betamax was already disappearing from retail stores before its market share dropped down to 25%. HD-DVD is already below that threshold, and like I've said many times before, if these trends hold up, retailers will stop carrying HD-DVD long before Toshiba, Universal, Paramount, and Microsoft officially pull the plug. With those kinds of market conditions, no one can make a credible argument for HD-DVD surviving as a viable format for much longer.

Talk about outdated, that article is still referring to $600 Blu-ray players. If you check the prices now, you'll see that street prices for Blu-ray players are now down to about $250. And many sources are reporting that overall HD optical disc uptake, even with this format war that has left so many consumers sitting on the fence, has occurred at a faster rate than when the DVD format was introduced.

I wonder if the analyst cited in the article was recommending 9 years ago that people stick with VHS because there was no "guarantee" that the DVD format would remain viable in 12 months and that the average consumer was perfectly happy with VHS resolution and pan-and-scan.

[bfalls]

I'm a Sony video fan and work at their DADC facility in Indiana. I purchased a PS3 at the end of September and it's performed flawlessly with both DVD and Blu-ray discs. In Novenber Walmart had a one day sale on the HD-DVD HD-A2 for $98. I purchased one thinking it can always be used for upscaling DVD if they lose the war. I also wanted to have HD versions of Transformers and the Bourne movies.

The HD-DVD hasn't performed very well at all. Twice during play it locked up and required unplugging before it would continue. I also had problems getting several SD DVDs to play. Thinking it was a defective unit, I returned it and bought the HD-A3. I should have taken the hint when first there was a warning to upgrade the firmware right in the top of the box. Another warning appeared following the initial setup in the manual. There were also warnings in each of the two movies I received with the player. Sure enough, on power-up I received vertical black and teil stripes, ticking in the audio and video dropping in and out. I performed the upgrade, but it resulted in no change.

I returned the unit and found a HD-D3 on sale and took it home only to discover the same bahavior. Checking back through my cabling I decided to run my HDMI directly to my Sony KDL52XBR5 display and video appeared. I had it running through my Sony flagship STR-DA5300ES w/HDMI 1.3, but it appears they don't communicate well with each other. Has anyone else had these experiences with their HD-DVD players? I have audio connected via optical, but I'd waited for a receiver with HDMI 1.3 and want the option of the new audio formats only available via HDMI. Any suggestions.

[pixelthis]

By golly you are right, it has been a whole 3 months since these opinions about actual sales figures were posted.

Nothing he disagrees with is a "fact". Probably thinks the world is flat.

AT any rate you have done it now, hes' posted another five miles of gibberish.
I don't have to read it to know thats what it is(consider the source)

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Nothing he disagrees with is a "fact". Probably thinks the world is flat.

AT any rate you have done it now, hes' posted another five miles of gibberish.
I don't have to read it to know thats what it is(consider the source)

All this from a person who makes opinions on things he never has seen, thinks the interlacing process is visible to the eye(must be tons of flickering devices in folks homes), who has supported nothing he has stated with links, figures, or supportable facts, and lives in a world that what he says is what everyone does. I guess when you are the National President of the Old People for Ignornace club, what more can you expect.