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Thread: Using Cables as Tone Controls

  1. #76
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Your tone control cable may sound good with one recording, and lousy with another. Since there is no way to control the effect of the cable(look ma, no knobs), it is not something that is compatible with all recordings. A cable that is bright(defective) will make recordings that are bright, brighter thereby making it unlistenable rather than just noticeably altered. Cables that are dark sounding will do the same thing to darker more diffused recordings.
    I agree

    As long as the concept of "best cables are soundless" is not undrestood, we will be on slippery slopes.
    Last edited by Smokey; 05-09-2014 at 10:33 PM.

  2. #77
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    And if we allow members to insult or attack other members it has the same effect.

    I think that personal attacks are far more dangerous to the future of this site than a few edits to keep things cordial.
    i agree entirely with this policy. This better than deleting entire posts or banning people who do make really contributions.

    It might be a good idea if the editing moderator were to insert an indicator where an edit was made e.g. <... mod edit ...>.

  3. #78
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    i agree entirely with this policy. This better than deleting entire posts or banning people who do make really contributions.

    It might be a good idea if the editing moderator were to insert an indicator where an edit was made e.g. <... mod edit ...>.
    If we delete or edit a post, the system automatically leaves a note on the post saying that it was Deleted by or Edited by the name of the Mod.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    That would certainly eliminate the memory factor. Another method might be to use two high quality switches at each end of components to switch between cables
    I am not as worried about which cable is which, just if there are differences that can be detected. That is usually the root of the argument, that there is no difference between cables (that do not include active parts).

  5. #80
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    If we delete or edit a post, the system automatically leaves a note on the post saying that it was Deleted by or Edited by the name of the Mod.
    Oh sorry. Good to know; hadn't noticed.

  6. #81
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    When posts are becoming more insulting than valuable not visiting would be a good thing. When your insults far outweigh contributions it is time to bid ado.
    You cannot argue for an unbiased view, and then present a biased view - and respond to it with your powers. I found a certain poster views a bit insulting from a audio knowledge and education point of view, and then you decided that this point of view was insulting to someone else.

    What is valuable is context and a matter of perspective. If you have Hitler's power to decide what is a good thing, and what is not, don't be surprised if you are criticized(and quite frankly rightly so) from a person who has done your job here, and come to a different conclusion than your air tight mindset.

    From a 18 year perspective, I have come to a firm and educated understanding of why this site has become largely irrelevant.

    FA, the danger to this site is it has become largely irrelevant on the internet largely because the moderators want a country club mentality, and relevance and education cannot survive and thrive is this narrow minded atmosphere.

    Hitler thought that any attack on his philosophy was was instantly grounds for death. Your ideology on this site unfortunately is similar.

    JM, if your comments state that you don't want me here, then I am gone.

    No loss for me.......
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  7. #82
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    ...relevance and education cannot survive and thrive is this narrow minded atmosphere...
    I might agree with you except that the post that I deleted was neither relevant nor educational. It wasn't the point of view that I found insulting, it was your choice of words to express that view. I know that you are an intelligent man and you certainly could have made your point with better words. Instead you chose to use derogatory words that were insulting to both the topic and the OP.

    Had someone said to you what you said to someone else, you would have gone on the defensive and you would have attacked back. I'm not new here, I've seen it happen. I was just stopping things before they could escalate.

    I try my best to be fair. I'm not going to apologize for deleting the post. I believe it was the right thing to do.

  8. #83
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    I might agree with you except that the post that I deleted was neither relevant nor educational. It wasn't the point of view that I found insulting, it was your choice of words to express that view. I know that you are an intelligent man and you certainly could have made your point with better words. Instead you chose to use derogatory words that were insulting to both the topic and the OP.
    This comment tells me that you want to control what I say, and how I say it. Anyone with one third of a brain will take offense to this. You may not because you have the control of the edit button, and quite frankly a set agenda. Unfortunately a set agenda by a moderator chased more than half of the regular posters off on this site long ago, and it seems apparent that some folks have learned nothing from that history.

    Had someone said to you what you said to someone else, you would have gone on the defensive and you would have attacked back. I'm not new here, I've seen it happen. I was just stopping things before they could escalate.
    You don't know me as well as you think you do. I may have gone on the OFFENSIVE(not the defensive as you wrongfully state), or I may ignore the post because I have other things to do. Some people are worth responding to, others, not so much because they are obviously to stupid to respond to. If you think I have responded 100% in the way you have stated, then you don't know my posts (or who I am) nearly as well as you think you do. Over my history here, I have ignored far more stupid posts than I have responded to, and that is a fact.

    I try my best to be fair. I'm not going to apologize for deleting the post. I believe it was the right thing to do.
    Hitler thought it was the right thing to kill jews, so please forgive me if I believe the "right" thing is so highly subjective, that there is sometimes no fairness at all. Our best may not be good enough to some.....
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  9. #84
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    I am not as worried about which cable is which, just if there are differences that can be detected. That is usually the root of the argument, that there is no difference between cables (that do not include active parts).
    I don't think that was the root of the argument as there are differences between cables as not all cables are created equal.

    I think the root of argument is whether one should choose cables subjectively (listening), or objectively (specifications) as your approach will determine which side of the fence you are on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    I don't think that was the root of the argument as there are differences between cables as not all cables are created equal.

    I think the root of argument is whether one should choose cables subjectively (listening), or objectively (specifications) as your approach will determine which side of the fence you are on
    There are plenty of cables that are made "Theoretically" the same, but still have been said to have differences in sound. I know that the 3 pcs of gear I run in my main setup were put together by the original shop for synergy. He also originally had the buyer wire it all up with Kimber PBJs and 8TC. Sound was thin and not in control at all. He went beck and rewired everything with Synergistic Research and there was a huge difference.

    My cable swapping experiences are not huge, but I did put the PBJs up against my similarly priced Tara Labs at that time in my old setup and again found the Kimber to be a weak link. I have also swapped out any one of my different Tara and Audioquest cables for the Synergistic, only to put them back pretty quick.

    So I guess you could say that I choose Subjectively. What side of the fence are you on?

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    There are plenty of cables that are made "Theoretically" the same, but still have been said to have differences in sound. I know that the 3 pcs of gear I run in my main setup were put together by the original shop for synergy. He also originally had the buyer wire it all up with Kimber PBJs and 8TC. Sound was thin and not in control at all. He went beck and rewired everything with Synergistic Research and there was a huge difference.
    I am really not surprise. I looked at Kimber PBJs IC and 8TC speaker cables, and from its geometry and bundling toghether - and + conductors I can tell you it probably have excessive capacitance due to individual wraped conductors.

    The Ic ia also unshielded which mean it have high noise to signal ratio. So no surprises when it makes system sound thin. If dealer approach was more objective, he probaly would not pick this cable as its transparency is questionable.

    So I guess you could say that I choose Subjectively. What side of the fence are you on?
    I am on the right side of the fence

    But seriously, my approach would be that cables should not have any "signature" sound (even if its for better), so I guess that makes it objectively
    Last edited by Smokey; 05-12-2014 at 11:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    I am really not surprise. I looked at Kimber PBJs IC and 8TC speaker cables, and from its geometry and bundling toghether - and + conductors I can tell you it probably have excessive capacitance due to individual wraped conductors.
    And there are countless users of Kimber products that claim these exact cables are the best they have heard in their systems. So component synergy must have something to do with it or we would all say they are great, or we all would say they are not.

    So it really comes down to what each individual set of ears (and coupled brain) thinks it likes better.

    I starter this thread off talking about an overly bright combination of gear that I was able to tame with a specific set of cables touted to do exactly what they did. Whether they should or should not impart their own signature to the mix, it made my specific setup sound better and much more tolerable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    I am on the right side of the fence

    But seriously, my approach would be that cables should not have any "signature" sound (even if its for better), so I guess that makes it objectively
    That's fair enough. But the whole premise of this thread was about using cables that DO have a signature to alter the sound of a system in a particular way.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    I starter this thread off talking about an overly bright combination of gear that I was able to tame with a specific set of cables touted to do exactly what they did. Whether they should or should not impart their own signature to the mix, it made my specific setup sound better and much more tolerable.
    My approach would have been different if have bright system. Assuming using quality cables to begin with, I would investigate as to why system sound bright. Starting with room accoustic and speakers placement first, then speakers and then components.

    Down side of taming a system's brightness with cables would be that now cables will add its own signature (toning down brightness) to the mix. Now any time you play a record or from source that is not not so bright, the cables will make it sound even darker. So by solving a system sonic problem with cable, you are creating another sonic problem

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    I know why the system is bright, and you only theoretically would have done something differently.

    I can't change much about the room. I have changed the whole setup of gear around since this thread started. The other thing you don't get, since you have no first hand real world experience, is that some people like more bass than others and if a cable tames a known bright speaker and I like it, you can throw all your non-tested theory out the window.

    Sure I could have sold my speakers and bought different ones.
    Sure, I could have given away a nice $800 receiver that I got for $100.
    Sure, I could buy yet another good CD player instead of using my OPPO93 for both CD and Movie playback.

    But I was able to solve my own problem by experimenting with a set of ICs that were sitting idle but known to be more on the bass side.

    Since this thread was started, I took the JM Labs speakers out of the setup that I started talking about and now instead of a Receiver driving them from 2 rooms away, they are being driven by a quality amplifier and pre-amp, using only 8foot speaker cables of thick gauge (instead of 50feet of zip cord) and quality ICs. The speakers are setup in a different spot and I removed an unused sub that was near the speakers.

    Results? One wonderful sounding setup that I have about $2500 into that I have been enjoying more lately than my main setup that cost close to $20,000 back in the 90s.

    I still have the Groneberg cables between the OPPO and the Rotel driving my outdoor speakers and a cheap set of Polks in another room and I really don't think about or care if there is a sonic signature anymore. But I do know that because cables can and do cause differences in sound, I was able to make a setup sound better to me with the simple swapping of a set of ICs.

  15. #90
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    I know why the system is bright, and you only theoretically would have done something differently.
    You cannot make such a statement unless you think exactly like Smoke. A person who does not think like I do, who does not have the same priorities as I do, cannot tell what I will do in any given situation.

    I can't change much about the room. I have changed the whole setup of gear around since this thread started. The other thing you don't get, since you have no first hand real world experience, is that some people like more bass than others and if a cable tames a known bright speaker and I like it, you can throw all your non-tested theory out the window.
    One can say your views theories are non-tested as well. Liking more bass is a subjective preference that should not be based on transfer devices(cables), but those devices that can be adjusted based on the recording itself. Using a IC as a tone control subjects all sources to the same treatment, which can make one piece of software sound right, and another sound overly heavy and veiled. A tone control is crude in its control of adjustments, and a EQ is much better.

    Stereophile did some measurements on a wide variety of cables, and these test where published in a AES white paper in 2004. When it came to frequency response(how we perceive the amplitude of individual signal of various tones mashed together in time), this testing only noted variables in frequencies above 18khz, and near 25-20hz. The poorly made ones did alter the timbre and texture audibly, and the better made ones had no difference that would be audible. These measurements were done in a laboratory with no speakers involved. When these cables were used in actual systems in actual rooms, listeners were unable to detect any differences in DB testing. The acoustics of the room were swamping listeners ears ability to detect these minute differences. What does this tell us? That any differences between cables in sighted listening test introduced biases that are not born out with objective cable measurements. If you really want to hear what a cable is doing, then you have to damp and neutralize the effect of the speaker/room interaction. Anything less, is just sighted bias or the placebo effect.

    Sure I could have sold my speakers and bought different ones.
    Sure, I could have given away a nice $800 receiver that I got for $100.
    Sure, I could buy yet another good CD player instead of using my OPPO93 for both CD and Movie playback.
    Yes you could have made all of these changes, but they would not have the effect of just treating your rooms modes and nodes. This would be majoring in minors.

    But I was able to solve my own problem by experimenting with a set of ICs that were sitting idle but known to be more on the bass side.
    Known how, by measurements or by subjective biased listening? Did you place your head in exactly the same place when changing these cables? Probably not. Ethan Winer was able to demonstrate that small changes in head placement relative to the sources(in this case speakers) in a non treated or under treated room can have a significant impact on what we hear. Moving our heads one inch can have a 6db impact on what we hear, as we move in and out of room modes and nodes. Unless you keep your head in exactly the same place each time you listen, what you hear may be different from one time to the next. If a cable introduces a 6db difference in what you hear, then the cable is not suitable as a transfer device.

    Since this thread was started, I took the JM Labs speakers out of the setup that I started talking about and now instead of a Receiver driving them from 2 rooms away, they are being driven by a quality amplifier and pre-amp, using only 8foot speaker cables of thick gauge (instead of 50feet of zip cord) and quality ICs. The speakers are setup in a different spot and I removed an unused sub that was near the speakers.

    Results? One wonderful sounding setup that I have about $2500 into that I have been enjoying more lately than my main setup that cost close to $20,000 back in the 90s.
    I would suspect(based on measurements and listening test) the movement of the speakers would have FAR more effect on your subjective opinion than changes in sources you put in front of them. Unless you parse the effect of every piece in the listening chain, you cannot know how they affect what you hear. Was it the wire, the amp, the preamp, or the changes on how the speakers are interacting with the room with their new placement? Objective science would lean towards the room more than anything else, and the speakers themselves coming in second.

    I still have the Groneberg cables between the OPPO and the Rotel driving my outdoor speakers and a cheap set of Polks in another room and I really don't think about or care if there is a sonic signature anymore. But I do know that because cables can and do cause differences in sound, I was able to make a setup sound better to me with the simple swapping of a set of ICs.
    Your statement here cannot be quantified by actual listening test. If we know we are changing cables, our minds can easily be fooled into detecting a difference - even if that difference is unmeasurable. In DB testing biases are removed, which makes it very difficult to tell any difference in cables. Since all humans move their heads slightly when listening to sources(which is known to have detectable differences in frequency response) can you really attribute a difference in the sound of different cables to the cable, or small changes second by second in head placement?

    You cannot know this with subjective biases present.
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  16. #91
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    Liking more bass is a subjective preference that should not be based on transfer devices(cables), but those devices that can be adjusted based on the recording itself. Using a IC as a tone control subjects all sources to the same treatment, which can make one piece of software sound right, and another sound overly heavy and veiled
    That is very much true as there is no two way about it. If one believe the positives of cable in their system, they should also believe the negative side effects of cable signature.

    Known how, by measurements or by subjective biased listening? Did you place your head in exactly the same place when changing these cables? Probably not. Ethan Winer was able to demonstrate that small changes in head placement relative to the sources(in this case speakers) in a non treated or under treated room can have a significant impact on what we hear. Moving our heads one inch can have a 6db impact on what we hear, as we move in and out of room modes and nodes. Unless you keep your head in exactly the same place each time you listen, what you hear may be different from one time to the next.
    I experience that every night

    I have a clock radio that have a slight buzz about 4 feet from my head. When I sleep when the room is quiet, if I turn my head slightly to sides I can tone out the buzz or tone in the buzz depending on my head angle. That just show how our ears interact with its enviroment.
    Last edited by Smokey; 05-16-2014 at 09:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post

    Down side of taming a system's brightness with cables would be that now cables will add its own signature (toning down brightness) to the mix. Now any time you play a record or from source that is not not so bright, the cables will make it sound even darker. So by solving a system sonic problem with cable, you are creating another sonic problem
    Anyone can Copy-Paste, Paraphrase, or Plagiarize what they read on the internet, even if it was just said a few posts above. But at the end of the day, that's all you have. Until you tell us what you tried and with what gear, you have no real world first hand experience. Even if you did not hear anything different, at least you could say you tried. The only thing we know about your setup, is that you have tiny Athena speakers that cannot playback bass. I can only guess that you drive them with a mass market HT Receiver that barely resolves silence.

    Part of the fun of this hobby is trying things for yourself. But for some, reading and using the Black & Reds that came with the Best Buy gear is good enough. That's just fine but regurgitating everything you read without ever actually doing any of it yourself gives one no credibility on the subject. Just says they can read and repost.

  18. #93
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Let us debate the topic but do not bait an argument.

    We really do not know each other's experience in this hobby. As far as cables go I have tried many brands both stranded and solid core in the under $400 range for speaker cables and $250 for a pair of IC's. Some have made my system sound brighter and some have rolled off the treble. If IC's can brighten a system or darken a system that sounds like a tone control to me.
    Last edited by JohnMichael; 05-18-2014 at 05:46 AM.
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  19. #94
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    Let us debate the topic but do not bait an argument.

    We really do not know each other's experience in this hobby. As far as cables go I have tried many brands both stranded and solid core in the under $400 range for speaker cables and $250 for a pair of IC's. Some have made my system sound brighter and some have rolled off the treble. If IC's can brighten a system or darken a system that sounds like a tone control to me.
    If a IC is brightening or darkening the sound, it is defective PERIOD. An IC job is to transport a signal from one component to another - adding little to nothing of a sonic signature to the process as possible.

    Also a tone controls are adjustable, not static like IC's. You can reduce the effect of a tone control, but you cannot do that to a IC. So in reality an IC is not a tone control, as it CONTROLS(key here) nothing.

    JM, can you be positively sure that when auditioning these cables that you sat with your head exactly in the same place each time? I would think not. You may have sat in the same place, but your head was most likely not in the same place every single time. Even the smallest changes in head position can change the sound pretty drastically in a untreated or underdamped room. Ethan Winer demonstrated this, and I did this simple experiment in my music room. I removed all of the bass traps and the two acoustical panels in the room, set up 6 microphones and a dummy head with a multiplexer and a laptop with Audyssey Multi EQ PRO software. I measured six points in the room, and all of them had different measured results. I took the dummy head and put it in the primary listening seat. Measure that response, and then pushed the dummy head backwards only two inches. I got a completely different measured response. I then pushed it over to the left and right three inches. All of these points measured differently. This proves Ethan Winer is correct. Unless you measured where your head is every time you sit down, you are not likely to be in the same place every single time. Unless the IC is really in poor condition or very poorly made, you will not be able to compete with sonic signature of the room. IC sound signature differences are much too subtle.

    When you make comparisons on IC's, you have to eliminate ALL variables than can exist or you don't know exactly what is affecting the sound. You have to analyze the effects(if any) in the entire signal chain. Keep this in mind, once you have sat in a particular position while listening to the sound, the impression of what it sounds like is established. Since you have introduced that bias on first impression, that bias will continue each time you try and evaluate that wire. This is why biases must be eliminated when evaluating any component. This is why sighted evaluations are pretty useless, and why DBT is so effective. Since you don't know what cable is being used, it is pretty difficult to pick out differences attributable to a specific IC. It is a fact that nobody has been to detect differences under DBT conditions, but can come to hard fast conclusions with sighted evaluations. The power of bias is undeniable.

    When you actually have knowledge of something, there is no need to cut, paste, or plagiarize anything. If somebody is going to make this accusation, prove it. When you don't know much of anything, you just make things up in the vacuum of your own head. I trust my ears, but I also have to verify what I hear. Our ears can easily be fooled, and a simple test can verify this. I can record a simple C scale and play it back multiple times introducing extremely subtle pitch changes each time. Our ears will think it is hearing the same scale, but we have actually gone up a C# scale. I have fooled numerous folks with this test including musicians(though the ones with perfect pitch were not fooled).

    Another example of bias is when somebody makes a comment, and somebody else deletes it for lacking(what they perceive) educational value. Then another person comes along and post a comment that also lacks educational value, and it is not deleted.

    If a cable darkens or lighten the sound, that cable must be measured. If measurements don't show a gradual roll off in the bass or treble, then something else is going on. That something is usually what is most audible - the speaker/room interaction. If you just trust your ears, then your opinion is useless.
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  20. #95
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    If you just trust your ears, then your opinion is useless.
    My ears are the only things I use to listen to music. I hear the changes. As far as opinions it is based on my experience. It is very insulting to say someone's opinion is useless. Oh and I am bored with your opinions.
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  21. #96
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    My ears are the only things I use to listen to music.
    Now you are changing gears here. We are not talking about the music, we are talking about the IC's that transport that music from component to component. If it was about the music, then what wire you use wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. This is why music lovers(as opposed to audiophiles) can listen to music on a clock radio system. They love the music no matter what source it is coming from.

    I hear the changes.
    We all hear changes, that is not what we are debating here. What we are debating is what is causing the changes.

    As far as opinions it is based on my experience.
    And your experience and perspective are quite different than mine. I come from both a recording, listening, and measuring perspective. You come from a listener perspective only. I have both listened to IC's, and then measured them. You only listening them. If I find that I cannot quantify my listening to my measurements, then there is something else at play here. You don't go that far. This is why we don't see eye to eye on this subject.

    It is very insulting to say someone's opinion is useless.
    If a person cannot quantify their opinion with some facts, then that opinion is pretty useless to me. If an opinion is formed by myths and misinformation, then it is useless as well. I don't think that is insulting at all.

    Oh and I am bored with your opinions.
    Hmmmm, a note of hostility. At one time we got along so well........

    Are you bored with my opinions, or are they just too complicated to grasp?
    bfalls likes this.
    Sir Terrence

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  22. #97
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post
    If a IC is brightening or darkening the sound, it is defective PERIOD. An IC job is to transport a signal from one component to another - adding little to nothing of a sonic signature to the process as possible.
    The exception would be cables that include a Zobel filter network. I believe examples includes made by MIT, Transparent, and Siltech. These are designed to modify the signal, and it shouldn't surprise that they will sound different from "straight wire".

  23. #98
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible View Post

    Hmmmm, a note of hostility. At one time we got along so well........

    Are you bored with my opinions, or are they just too complicated to grasp?

    Oh yes but you do wear people out being the audio bully. Oh and you are not too complicated to grasp since your opinions are not as important as my experiences.
    JohnMichael
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  24. #99
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    This is much like the arguments between those who can hear differences in cables and those who cannot. An IC using solid core wire will sound different to one constructed of stranded wire. Both conduct the signal so neither is defective nor improperly designed. Of course if you are not able to hear the difference buy what you will. Some of us who are able to hear the difference spend time and money to find cables that best present the music to our ears. I often see posts on other sites where people are looking for lush sounding IC's and speaker cables. I wonder how so many cable manufactures can survive and have dedicated customers if they all sound the same?
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cone, Benz MC Gold, Fanfare 3/PSU 1.
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    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
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    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  25. #100
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    The exception would be cables that include a Zobel filter network. I believe examples includes made by MIT, Transparent, and Siltech. These are designed to modify the signal, and it shouldn't surprise that they will sound different from "straight wire".
    Actually those cables are not made to transparently transfer a signal from one component to another. They were made to sonically change the sound, and claim it is better than straight wire. Vinyl records are essentially the same in that regard.
    Sir Terrence

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    6 custom CAL amps for subs
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    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
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