best budget integrated amp?

[frenchmon]

While we're generalizing, tube amps have more distortion then solid state amps and, as we all know, distortion is bad, except perhaps for Jimi Hendrix and the like.

Enjoy your Kool-aid, boys, Some people can sell it succesfully, like Jim Jones, but society hasn't bought it, and never will.

Well if the distortion is bad coming through my tube pre, some body sho in hell for got to tell my tube pre because its been going strong now for about 5 hours and she sounding really really good...no, excellent!

[markw]

Well if the distortion is bad coming through my tube pre, some body sho in hell for got to tell my tube pre because its been going strong now for about 5 hours and she sounding really really good...no, excellent!

Funny, betcha us solid state guys can say the same thing. I know I sure can.

Let's face it, you "tubies" just love throwing out those stoopid generalizations and hyperbole. Just look at the recent contributions from you guys in this thread alone.

So, if y'all want to maintain any credibility, just quietly keep enjoying your tubes, but please keep your unbridled, almost obsessive, love for the pleasure you derive from playing with them to yourselves. It just looks really weird when you go public with it and kinda creeps us out.

[frenchmon]

Funny, betcha us solid state guys can say the same thing. I know I sure can.

Let's face it, you "tubies" just love throwing out those stoopid generalizations and hyperbole. Just look at the recent contributions from you guys in this thread alone.

So, if y'all want to maintain any credibility, just quietly keep enjoying your tubes, but please keep your unbridled, almost obsessive, love for the pleasure you derive from playing with them to yourselves. It just looks really weird when you go public with it and kinda creeps us out.

What!!!! Some body spit in your corn flakes or something?. I got solid state as well. I aint feeling the love man. I aint saying one is better than the other....just different.

[markw]

What!!!! Some body spit in your corn flakes or something?. I got solid state as well. I aint feeling the love man. I aint saying one is better than the other....just different.

Really? Ya sure coulda fooled me.

You're pretty good with those snide little comments, aren't ya? So am I.

The difference is you try to deny you meant what you clearly implied when you're called on it. I don't.

Enjoy your cornflakes.

I do, however, give you credit for that Rotel post.

[frenchmon]

Really? Ya sure coulda fooled me.

You're pretty good with those snide little comments, aren't ya? So am I.

The difference is you try to deny you meant what you clearly implied when you're called on it. I don't.

Enjoy your cornflakes.

I do, however, give you credit for that Rotel post.

What did I say to make you think I thought tube was better man? If you can, kindly point it out to me please. Just for the record...I think both are good. Right now, ima enjoying a hybrid sound....slight warmer with punch. Shoot, who knows tomorrow I might want a cleaner sound, and I too will enjoy that. But kindly point out those quotes that gotcha bent out of shape.

[RGA]

While we're generalizing, tube amps have more distortion then solid state amps and, as we all know, distortion is bad, except perhaps for Jimi Hendrix and the like.

Enjoy your Kool-aid, boys, Some people can sell it succesfully, like Jim Jones, but society hasn't bought it, and never will.

Measure a SET amp at .001 watt - then measure most SS amps at .001 watt - SETs when not driven into clipping have FAR superior measured performance than any SS amp - crossover distortion - SET doesn't crossover. Measure a feedback amp BEFORE the feedback loop engages to artificially make the numbers look better (when in fact they're not). The fact that SS is dirt cheap to make and far more profitable as a result. The Kool-Aid is is believing cheap parts at sometimes high prices = good sound.

See SS amps need a bucket of corrective measures just to remotely work properly.

Consider the folks on forums who blather about power and loads. I need a 3000 watt Krell amp to drive my 1 ohm speaker nonsense. Yeah a combo that generally sounds lousy but what all these people fail to realize is that the ONLY amps that are truly LOAD STABLE are Single Ended amplifiers.

WHAT? Oh yeah didn't you know those pathetic expensive SS amps of a billion watts need fuse protection - if they could actually DRIVE difficult loads they would not need it. Take an Audio Note kit one - put a screwdrive across the outputs and run the amp 24/7 for a year. The amp is driving an infinite load - that is load stable - it can drive ANY load. Now take your SS amp and remove the protection circuitry and stick a screwdriver across the outputs of you Krell or $30,000 Bryston amp - and within 5 minutes you'll need a fire extinguisher. Hell Krell catches on fire even when they have their fuses in place.

It's funny but SET amps have NEVER lost a blind level matched audition - ever. Even the Sugden which is a SS Set has beaten every amp it's ever gone up against despite having more distortion.

Amplifier distortion is a fraction of the distortion of even the best speakers - far less distortion than what a Magnepan or Quad puts out. Distortion is a no starter - the only time a SET distorts is when it is driven beyond it's ability - umm guess what buddy - do that to a SS amp and the distortion is about 100 times worse. At least second harmonic distortion is easy on the ears - when a Krell clips it's frightening - and usually takes out the speaker.

It is impossible to blow a speaker with a 3 watt amp - not so with your 150 watt Krell/Bryston whatever.

Sadly the SS kool-aid is drunk by the numbers is better fools. More damping factor, more feedback, more watts - must be good - selling bigger is better to male shoppers makes sense from a marketing standpoint - most men are easily led by bigger and more is better.

[RGA]

What did I say to make you think I thought tube was better man? If you can, kindly point it out to me please. Just for the record...I think both are good. Right now, ima enjoying a hybrid sound....slight warmer with punch. Shoot, who knows tomorrow I might want a cleaner sound, and I too will enjoy that. But kindly point out those quotes that gotcha bent out of shape.

Nah - Tubes are better all the way - just depends on the tube amp. Plenty of rubbish in both camps. The Shengya PM 150 is a tube hybrid monoblock - so it's got some SS in there but for the money - it is well executed and Class A for most of the duration at least. I like it a lot more than the SS amps I've had over the years including Arcam, Bryston, and my current Rotel power amp.

There are many sorts of distortions - THD is unimportant - and until people figure that out they're not going to get anywhere.

[markw]

What did I say to make you think I thought tube was better man? If you can, kindly point it out to me please. Just for the record...I think both are good. Right now, ima enjoying a hybrid sound....slight warmer with punch. Shoot, who knows tomorrow I might want a cleaner sound, and I too will enjoy that. But kindly point out those quotes that gotcha bent out of shape.

WEll, post 40 seems pretty clear inn "romanticizing" the added distortiion tube amps provide when PRODUCING musical sounds in a performance and saying that is equally desirable in home music reproduction. It's not.

And, let's face it, your timing in jumping in to defense of tubes in post 51 is quite obvious, particularly considering that the post I responded just pior to that was a direct, fairly sarcastic, rsponse to some bone-headed post by some other tubie immediately prior. You easily could have sat this one out instead of popping your head up into the crosshairs.

If I misead you then I apologize but you did ask for it after post 51. Be honest.

[markw]

Measure a SET amp at .001 watt - then measure most SS amps at .001 watt - SETs when not driven into clipping have FAR superior measured performance than any SS amp - crossover distortion - SET doesn't crossover. Measure a feedback amp BEFORE the feedback loop engages to artificially make the numbers look better (when in fact they're not). The fact that SS is dirt cheap to make and far more profitable as a result. The Kool-Aid is is believing cheap parts at sometimes high prices = good sound.

See SS amps need a bucket of corrective measures just to remotely work properly.

Consider the folks on forums who blather about power and loads. I need a 3000 watt Krell amp to drive my 1 ohm speaker nonsense. Yeah a combo that generally sounds lousy but what all these people fail to realize is that the ONLY amps that are truly LOAD STABLE are Single Ended amplifiers.

WHAT? Oh yeah didn't you know those pathetic expensive SS amps of a billion watts need fuse protection - if they could actually DRIVE difficult loads they would not need it. Take an Audio Note kit one - put a screwdrive across the outputs and run the amp 24/7 for a year. The amp is driving an infinite load - that is load stable - it can drive ANY load. Now take your SS amp and remove the protection circuitry and stick a screwdriver across the outputs of you Krell or $30,000 Bryston amp - and within 5 minutes you'll need a fire extinguisher. Hell Krell catches on fire even when they have their fuses in place.

It's funny but SET amps have NEVER lost a blind level matched audition - ever. Even the Sugden which is a SS Set has beaten every amp it's ever gone up against despite having more distortion.

Amplifier distortion is a fraction of the distortion of even the best speakers - far less distortion than what a Magnepan or Quad puts out. Distortion is a no starter - the only time a SET distorts is when it is driven beyond it's ability - umm guess what buddy - do that to a SS amp and the distortion is about 100 times worse. At least second harmonic distortion is easy on the ears - when a Krell clips it's frightening - and usually takes out the speaker.

It is impossible to blow a speaker with a 3 watt amp - not so with your 150 watt Krell/Bryston whatever.

Sadly the SS kool-aid is drunk by the numbers is better fools. More damping factor, more feedback, more watts - must be good - selling bigger is better to male shoppers makes sense from a marketing standpoint - most men are easily led by bigger and more is better.

Whatever, RGA. You can feel free to beleve whatever warm, fuzzy philosophies you wish, but the world does seem to see otherwise. ..thankfully.

And, since you like to point out here that speakers themselves add more distortion than amps, doesn't that make your distortion rants somewhat moot? In any case, the best way to avoid (amplifier) distortion is to have enough to not drive the poor thing into clipping, doncha think? Most sensible people have realized that the best way to prevent distortion from over-driving is to, well, simply have enough clean power to avoid that situation.

But, at least you do admit that you like the sweet, syrupy sound of even-order harmonics. Rock musicians have known that for ages. That's a preference, not necessarily a positive attribute in music reproduction.

Finally, I do like the way you try to drag sexism into it by saying that having more power is a male trait. Not to sound too Freudian, but are you sure you're not trying to justify a lack of something here? Is this your way of saying "it ain't the meat, it's the motion"? Or is it that you just like looking at that big, bulbous tube that turns you on? No problem, dude, amplifier power you can buy. Self-esteem, well...

[frenchmon]

WEll, post 40 seems pretty clear inn "romanticizing" the added distortiion tube amps provide when PRODUCING musical sounds in a performance and saying that is equally desirable in home music reproduction. It's not.

Man....come on Mark. Perception man. Kindly let it go. But now I will attempt to clear it up.

Have you ever heard of the Romantic era? Happened in Europe...spread to America in about the 18th century and pertained to the arts, literature and MUSIC. Those who where not wealthy and rich needed it....a way of escape for them..... sort a like what the Swing era did for people in America during the great depression.

Had a lot to do with perception and ones emotion from what one perceived. Its was an departure from realism....and by the way, the period of realism followed the era of romanticism. So in other words Mark....What the Vincent has done for me is inject me with emotion and feeling in a way that you cant understand or feel. I have romanticized it....a departure from the reality of distortion and a not so clean sound as in Solid State. I welcome the sound of the distorted music... let it into my soul....and it moves me with passion. I am in the moment. Mind you, does not mean Tubes with all it has to offer is better in the real world....only in the moment while I am enjoying it....so hyperbole??? I have no problem with that. The Romantic era was a departure from facts or realism and an entrance into emotion with fear and sometimes awe, as in what my Vincent has done for me....and I am sure your SS does for you.

And, let's face it, your timing in jumping in to defense of tubes in post 51 is quite obvious, particularly considering that the post I responded just pior to that was a direct, fairly sarcastic, rsponse to some bone-headed post by some other tubie immediately prior. You easily could have sat this one out instead of popping your head up into the crosshairs.

If I misead you then I apologize but you did ask for it after post 51. Be honest.

Post 51....I was just stating that in this case, distortion is a good thing for reasons expressed above. Still I have said nothing to suggest tube is better...but if one thinks it is in the real world, then that's his opinion. Not a big deal.

Ahh....no need for an apology...you and I are still cool. I want no enemy's....only good conversation and spirited debated.

[Poultrygeist]

I live in the largest city in my state and none of the audio stores here sell SET's.

I wonder how many of you SS guys have ever heard one?

[markw]

Preferences are perfectly fine as long as they are acknowkledged as such. I love Van Gogh but wouldn't want capturing visual images of my grandkids growing up. Don't even get me started with Picasso of Dali there.

What dragged me back into this thread was when some turkey said "everybody goes to tubes eventually". Blatent BS like that will elicit a response every time.

[Poultrygeist]

It took this turkey 40 years to get there.

So markw, you've still got time.

[markw]

It took this turkey 40 years to get there.

So markw, you've still got time.

Doubt it. I've got a son older than that and I built my first amp, a SEP for that matter, in '62.

So, start working on "everybody" else.

[Feanor]

Doubt it. I've got a son older than that and I built my first amp, a SEP for that matter, in '62.

So, start working on "everybody" else.

SET/OTL is true religion. And Mark, as you know, there's no arguing with true religion.

[frenchmon]

Preferences are perfectly fine as long as they are acknowkledged as such. I love Van Gogh but wouldn't want capturing visual images of my grandkids growing up. Don't even get me started with Picasso of Dali there.

What dragged me back into this thread was when some turkey said "everybody goes to tubes eventually". Blatent BS like that will elicit a response every time.

My Man!

[RGA]

Feanor you were schooled by morricab - why not actually learn something - maybe if you could actually hear you'd be worth talking to - granted when you have no high frequency hearing why you think you should be opining on audio quality is a complete laugh since most of the complains are the high frequencies.

It's funny - the first rule of science is observation - which requires first hand experience - of which you have none. Mark is just a troll - I get that. No one can possibly be that deaf.

[RGA]

SET/OTL is true religion. And Mark, as you know, there's no arguing with true religion.

No it's not a religion - it is objectively superior sound. Objectively superior is run a blind audition and listen and most of the time - every time I am aware of - the SET is chosen as the best sound - even by top SS manufacturers selling expensive solid state amplifiers. See that is OBJECTIVE. What is not objective is seeing a graph or a THD spec and making an assumption that it is better without any first hand experience. That's a religion - the religion of the spec sheet.

There is also correlational evidence - see that most speaker makers bring tubes and SET amps to an expensive audio show where they want to put their speaker's best attributes forward. Most bring some sort of tube. Hmm. Reviewers - look at the total number of amplifier sales and reviews and see what most of them actually buy. Not all - but there is a big big correlation there.

And anytime a Magnepan owner starts throwing the religion card - look in the bloody mirror - there's a religion that borders on scientology.

[markw]

SET/OTL is true religion. And Mark, as you know, there's no arguing with true religion.

Not really. This is verifiable, testable science although some do share some traits with scientologists, a religion recently created by a science fiction writer. (Battleground: Earth)

FWIW, I find scientology an insult to both religion and good science fiction writers and it's followers fools.

Religion is pure faith that cannot be measured in any scientific way Electronics was created by man and lays no claim to supernatural forces.

I also find it interesting that if one doesn't buy into it, one is either deaf or a troll. What's that river in Egypt?

I think this thread has been quite refreshing, kind of like flushing the stables with water. I'm sure a lot of lurkers got some enjoyment here. I certainly did.

[JohnMichael]

I find it interesting that some people think they know what should sound good to me. I have listened to a few tube amps including a monster McIntosh amp. I just do not get the sound of tubes. If you enjoy tubes well that is great. Enjoy what you enjoy as will I. My problem arises when you tell me I am wrong. I am right for me.

I enjoyed when Bob Carver designed a solid state amp to sound like a tube amp based on a tube amps measurements and distortion patterns. I enjoyed the time Stereophile tested a Cary tube amp and compared it to a tone control for it's far from flat frequency response.

RGA during his promotion of AN mentioned some Krell's that had problems. Now I would like to hear about all the reliability problems of tube amps and their tubes.

[Feanor]

No it's not a religion - it is objectively superior sound. Objectively superior is run a blind audition and listen and most of the time - every time I am aware of - the SET is chosen as the best sound - even by top SS manufacturers selling expensive solid state amplifiers. See that is OBJECTIVE. What is not objective is seeing a graph or a THD spec and making an assumption that it is better without any first hand experience. That's a religion - the religion of the spec sheet.

There is also correlational evidence - see that most speaker makers bring tubes and SET amps to an expensive audio show where they want to put their speaker's best attributes forward. Most bring some sort of tube. Hmm. Reviewers - look at the total number of amplifier sales and reviews and see what most of them actually buy. Not all - but there is a big big correlation there.

And anytime a Magnepan owner starts throwing the religion card - look in the bloody mirror - there's a religion that borders on scientology.

Thanks, RGA -- for proving my point.

[RGA]

I find it interesting that some people think they know what should sound good to me. I have listened to a few tube amps including a monster McIntosh amp. I just do not get the sound of tubes. If you enjoy tubes well that is great. Enjoy what you enjoy as will I. My problem arises when you tell me I am wrong. I am right for me.

I enjoyed when Bob Carver designed a solid state amp to sound like a tube amp based on a tube amps measurements and distortion patterns. I enjoyed the time Stereophile tested a Cary tube amp and compared it to a tone control for it's far from flat frequency response.

RGA during his promotion of AN mentioned some Krell's that had problems. Now I would like to hear about all the reliability problems of tube amps and their tubes.

Again though - because someone hears ONE tube amp does not mean you can write off all tube amps - I like the Solid State Sugden A21a more than many tube amps - in fact I like the Sugden A21a over ANY and ALL McIntosh amps - including their amps at about 5 times the price.

I have heard several expensive tube amps that I don't particularly like - Copland, McIntosh, Audio Research, BAT, are all tube amp makers that spring to mind that leave me cold. I don't particularly love certain Audio Note tube amps either.

Tubes are light bulbs. They need to be replaced from time to time - you need to be careful with them - if they blow and you're not paying attention they can arc and take out the board they're on. That is the nature of the design - it is inexcusable in a SS amp to not understand what fuse the amplifier needs - sure I get it from a Chinese maker selling $200 amplifiers - but when you make $70,000 amplifiers you are supposed to know how to design an amplifier properly - granted if you charge $70,000 people assume you do. Technical Brain is another such animal - very expensive and they fall apart continuously. But at least when it was working it sounded excellent.

Problem is the people who knock tubes usually have little to no experience with any sort of wide selection of them - they hear two don't like them and that's it.

A little background - I was a DIE HARD SS supporter and thought tubes were absolute CRAP. Why did I feel this way? Because auditioning Bryston with ML and PMC I got lots of clarity and slam - I auditioned said Bryston in store and took it home - almost bought it to - and with horn loudspeakers no less than are 8 ohm rated but typically run 10ohms - dead easy to drive. Why did I dislike tubes - because I directly compared said Bryston against Copland - a soft mushy lush distortion generating tube amplifier - oh sure it sounded "pleasing" and "warm" but it was obvious to anyone that it papers over the cracks. Copland is very popular with certain tube guys - it's a nice warm fix up bright speakers kind of amplifier. As compromises go - I would prefer that to something bright - but I would prefer something extremely transparent that doesn't exhibit copious amounts of obvious grain - which unfortunately - all Bryston amplifiers and the like exhibit.

Guess what - for all the hacks on forums - ask them why there is a replacement for the 3B NRB - see when that amp was out it was "perfectly accurate" because to listen to forum hacks - SS is perfect sound forever like the CD. The 3B NRB has distortion figures so low that no human, dog or bat can detect. The noise floor is as good as any SS amplifier on the market at any price - it too can't be heard. The frequency response is ruler flat and covers the entire range of human hearing. And yet - the 3b ST comes out and suddenly the reviewers, owners and the maker himself says that the noise and grain are improved over the "bright fatiguing and etchy" sounding NRB - but WAIT a minute - no one was saying that about the 3b NRB when it came out and for the years it was selling. (I did but that's because I don't have a dog in the hunt).

Now the 3B ST is the way ahead - that is until 3-4 years later when the SST comes out and is a watershed moment in SS amplifiers (according to them) and the Bright fatiguing grainy nature of the ST is removed. Oh WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIT didn't we read this before? And now we hear it again with the SST2 series - fixes the bright etchy grainy problems of the SST. Of course none of this is audible according to the measured results or the spec sheets - of course everyone can hear it but if it's not on the spec sheet and the graph - it's not there. Couldn't be that they're not measuring the right things.

And start looking at others - Musical Fidelity is disgusting for this tactic. Every 2 years instead of 4 they were rubbishing their previous amp as sounding practically "broken" while the new ones were the way ahead and cutting edge.

The fact that McIntosh sells looks and 1/2 inch thick face plates to make it heavy and sounds poor is hardly a basis to judge tube amplifiers. McIntosh sells what they think will sell - which is why they sell tube amps and SS amps - they sell pretty blue lights, lots of power and it sounds blah. You're are NOT alone in not liking the sound of McIntosh - kudos to you for not being duped by the appearance and size. UHF magazine ripped their OTL designs coming out and saying the words "this is a BAD design." They did make one venerable tube amplifier back in the day which I did like hearing it in South Korea. Interestingly it also didn't have the sexy looks of the others - maybe someone there wanted to prove they could actually make something sound good.

And you take a company like Quad - the gold standard of panels over the years - they make amplifiers designed for their speakers - what are they? Tube amps. Then when they wanted an updated amplifier for their new top of the line Quad panels - they decided to get help and go outside their company to design the best amplifiers that would be THE match for their flagship panels Who do they go to despite the thousands of SS amplifier designers - Andy Grove - the guy who designs Audio Note's amplifiers and CD players that's who.

I would listen to the amplifiers that speaker makers bring to shows - if you like Dynaudio for example - they don't bring Bryston - they bring Octave tube amps - the pairing is quite excellent. Wilson - Rogue or Lamm, Marten - Cary, Lamm, Audio Note, Quad - their own tube amps.

So yeah I was in your camp - my first exposure to tubes was Copland and I was roundly unimpressed - same exact arguments you guys make to me I was making to tube guys - and as I say late 90s early 2000s I was ready to buy Bryston - I ended up going to Arcam SS gear because I didn't need the power but I sure as hell didn't buy the tube amp. And when I heard Mcintosh the first time - ugh - still ugh. I am convinced Scaena sounded so bad at CES because of the McIntosh stuff. Hell the dealer here who sells it was upset they connected their McIntosh to Cerwin Vega speakers. Knowing Terry (the owner) that's all the speaker that McIntosh would warrant and he told the McIntosh rep right to his face that "it's a perfect match - one soulless company connected to another soulless company" in that both are now owned by corporations in it strictly for the buck.

See people get upset with dealers like Soundhounds because they carry some lines they don't love - but it sells. Most buyers don't ask for advice because they think they have all the answers. Since 95% of the people don't listen to their advice and buy what they believe is best from reviews they don't have to change people's minds. And the dealer - contrary to popular belief - is in the driver's seat most of the time. It is not Soundhounds begging to sell McIntosh or Magnepan it is McIntosh and Magnepan begging Soundhounds to carry them. There are hundreds of very saleable manufacturers out there - there are maybe 3 audio dealers on the island of half a million people. So they don't have to lie and pretend they like stuff that they don't like.

I mean they laughed Clearaudio off the premises. They brought in a few tables based on show conditions - nice price great looks. This is a vinyl store - 20,000 LPs on the walls. Connected it up auditioned and every sales person hated it. They had the rep go in several times to "fix" the turntable - and they said - that's how it sounds. They sent all the tables back and sold the demo cheap. NAD - they carry NAD - the 320 Bee is popular - they hated it. I hated it - what a horrible pile of crap. Rotel blew it to the weeds.

Bryston's SST2 - a little smirk and a "well it sounds like Bryston" - in other words - it will join the thousands of amps on Ebay or the piles they get as trade ins. The Bryton guru in town ready to buy the new cd player - owns all bryston - hears the AN entry level player - I watch him come out of the room flabbergasted thanking them so much for making him listen to something else first and waxing poetic as to how truly awful the Bryston was in direct comparison.

This happens a lot. And while I may go off on this topic too much - it's because it is frustrating to talk to people who have ZERO experience in this and yet are quite willing to opine on it all the time. Okay RGA went from SS to SET but I heard a $300 chines tube amp and it sucked so all tube amps suck - or I heard a fashion first cheap parts quality company like McIntosh that sells whatever will sell at the time - tubes - but when SS came out they dropped it immediately and sold SS. then tubes get popular so they make tube amps again - yeah there is a company with a sonic aesthetic - they only want the fast buck.

But how about the guy who owned a $20,000GBP ($45,000Cad at that time system) PMC Bryston set-up - here is a a guy who owned some of the best Professional grade loudspeakers and Bryston - as measurably excellent a SS amplifier maker as it gets.

He brings a little AN system home basically to laugh at it compared to his brilliant state of the art measuring zero distortion flat frequency response, awesome bass transmission line super duper hi-fi system. So my word may not be gold due to perceived bias but

General Asylum: REVIEW: Audio Note Level 3 system Other by KevinF

And it doesn't by the way end at Audio Note - I am quite happy to leave them completely and entirely out of the discussion - Acapella and Einstein, Trenner and Freidl and VAC, Wilson and Rogue - it goes on and on. At least audition a few of the truly "good" tube amp makers - not the corporate fashion product designs.

And while Copland is a smaller outfit that is about the sound - there is also the fact that you won't like that presentation - I didn't but I can respect them for having a belief on what the sound should be even if I disagree with their take on it.

And you can't even go by design all the time - a Jolida 302B and an Antique Soundlabs AQ 1003DT sound almost nothing alike - despiite the same basic price and design and tubes.

[JohnMichael]

RGA I get a kick out of you. You sure like to type. I wonder if you are the same about other aspects of your life. If you like single malt scotch must I also like it. Do I have to work to develop a taste for it. Just for point of fact and not point of argument I do like single malt.

My point being I have heard two tube amps and was not impressed. I have a solid state integrated amp that I enjoy and presents the music as I like it and as it sounds to me at concerts. I have to ask why you think I need to try other tube amps. I neither have the time nor the interest. Why would I shop for something in which I have no interest. No need to further try and lure anyone to the tube side. Enjoy what you enjoy but the rest of us are not wrong.

[frenchmon]

Nah - Tubes are better all the way

Is that based on just a objective fact? Subjective? Or both?

[Poultrygeist]

Here is an interesting video of the $229 Miniwatt SET driving a pair of $29,000 MBL 116.


miniwatt S1 - Amplifiers