best budget integrated amp?

[markw]

While we're generalizing, tube amps have more distortion then solid state amps and, as we all know, distortion is bad, except perhaps for Jimi Hendrix and the like.

Enjoy your Kool-aid, boys, Some people can sell it succesfully, like Jim Jones, but society hasn't bought it, and never will.

[frenchmon]

While we're generalizing, tube amps have more distortion then solid state amps and, as we all know, distortion is bad, except perhaps for Jimi Hendrix and the like.

Enjoy your Kool-aid, boys, Some people can sell it succesfully, like Jim Jones, but society hasn't bought it, and never will.

Well if the distortion is bad coming through my tube pre, some body sho in hell for got to tell my tube pre because its been going strong now for about 5 hours and she sounding really really good...no, excellent!

[markw]

Well if the distortion is bad coming through my tube pre, some body sho in hell for got to tell my tube pre because its been going strong now for about 5 hours and she sounding really really good...no, excellent!

Funny, betcha us solid state guys can say the same thing. I know I sure can.

Let's face it, you "tubies" just love throwing out those stoopid generalizations and hyperbole. Just look at the recent contributions from you guys in this thread alone.

So, if y'all want to maintain any credibility, just quietly keep enjoying your tubes, but please keep your unbridled, almost obsessive, love for the pleasure you derive from playing with them to yourselves. It just looks really weird when you go public with it and kinda creeps us out.

[frenchmon]

Funny, betcha us solid state guys can say the same thing. I know I sure can.

Let's face it, you "tubies" just love throwing out those stoopid generalizations and hyperbole. Just look at the recent contributions from you guys in this thread alone.

So, if y'all want to maintain any credibility, just quietly keep enjoying your tubes, but please keep your unbridled, almost obsessive, love for the pleasure you derive from playing with them to yourselves. It just looks really weird when you go public with it and kinda creeps us out.

What!!!! Some body spit in your corn flakes or something?. I got solid state as well. I aint feeling the love man. I aint saying one is better than the other....just different.

[markw]

What!!!! Some body spit in your corn flakes or something?. I got solid state as well. I aint feeling the love man. I aint saying one is better than the other....just different.

Really? Ya sure coulda fooled me.

You're pretty good with those snide little comments, aren't ya? So am I.

The difference is you try to deny you meant what you clearly implied when you're called on it. I don't.

Enjoy your cornflakes.

I do, however, give you credit for that Rotel post.

[frenchmon]

Really? Ya sure coulda fooled me.

You're pretty good with those snide little comments, aren't ya? So am I.

The difference is you try to deny you meant what you clearly implied when you're called on it. I don't.

Enjoy your cornflakes.

I do, however, give you credit for that Rotel post.

What did I say to make you think I thought tube was better man? If you can, kindly point it out to me please. Just for the record...I think both are good. Right now, ima enjoying a hybrid sound....slight warmer with punch. Shoot, who knows tomorrow I might want a cleaner sound, and I too will enjoy that. But kindly point out those quotes that gotcha bent out of shape.

[RGA]

What did I say to make you think I thought tube was better man? If you can, kindly point it out to me please. Just for the record...I think both are good. Right now, ima enjoying a hybrid sound....slight warmer with punch. Shoot, who knows tomorrow I might want a cleaner sound, and I too will enjoy that. But kindly point out those quotes that gotcha bent out of shape.

Nah - Tubes are better all the way - just depends on the tube amp. Plenty of rubbish in both camps. The Shengya PM 150 is a tube hybrid monoblock - so it's got some SS in there but for the money - it is well executed and Class A for most of the duration at least. I like it a lot more than the SS amps I've had over the years including Arcam, Bryston, and my current Rotel power amp.

There are many sorts of distortions - THD is unimportant - and until people figure that out they're not going to get anywhere.

[markw]

What did I say to make you think I thought tube was better man? If you can, kindly point it out to me please. Just for the record...I think both are good. Right now, ima enjoying a hybrid sound....slight warmer with punch. Shoot, who knows tomorrow I might want a cleaner sound, and I too will enjoy that. But kindly point out those quotes that gotcha bent out of shape.

WEll, post 40 seems pretty clear inn "romanticizing" the added distortiion tube amps provide when PRODUCING musical sounds in a performance and saying that is equally desirable in home music reproduction. It's not.

And, let's face it, your timing in jumping in to defense of tubes in post 51 is quite obvious, particularly considering that the post I responded just pior to that was a direct, fairly sarcastic, rsponse to some bone-headed post by some other tubie immediately prior. You easily could have sat this one out instead of popping your head up into the crosshairs.

If I misead you then I apologize but you did ask for it after post 51. Be honest.

[RGA]

While we're generalizing, tube amps have more distortion then solid state amps and, as we all know, distortion is bad, except perhaps for Jimi Hendrix and the like.

Enjoy your Kool-aid, boys, Some people can sell it succesfully, like Jim Jones, but society hasn't bought it, and never will.

Measure a SET amp at .001 watt - then measure most SS amps at .001 watt - SETs when not driven into clipping have FAR superior measured performance than any SS amp - crossover distortion - SET doesn't crossover. Measure a feedback amp BEFORE the feedback loop engages to artificially make the numbers look better (when in fact they're not). The fact that SS is dirt cheap to make and far more profitable as a result. The Kool-Aid is is believing cheap parts at sometimes high prices = good sound.

See SS amps need a bucket of corrective measures just to remotely work properly.

Consider the folks on forums who blather about power and loads. I need a 3000 watt Krell amp to drive my 1 ohm speaker nonsense. Yeah a combo that generally sounds lousy but what all these people fail to realize is that the ONLY amps that are truly LOAD STABLE are Single Ended amplifiers.

WHAT? Oh yeah didn't you know those pathetic expensive SS amps of a billion watts need fuse protection - if they could actually DRIVE difficult loads they would not need it. Take an Audio Note kit one - put a screwdrive across the outputs and run the amp 24/7 for a year. The amp is driving an infinite load - that is load stable - it can drive ANY load. Now take your SS amp and remove the protection circuitry and stick a screwdriver across the outputs of you Krell or $30,000 Bryston amp - and within 5 minutes you'll need a fire extinguisher. Hell Krell catches on fire even when they have their fuses in place.

It's funny but SET amps have NEVER lost a blind level matched audition - ever. Even the Sugden which is a SS Set has beaten every amp it's ever gone up against despite having more distortion.

Amplifier distortion is a fraction of the distortion of even the best speakers - far less distortion than what a Magnepan or Quad puts out. Distortion is a no starter - the only time a SET distorts is when it is driven beyond it's ability - umm guess what buddy - do that to a SS amp and the distortion is about 100 times worse. At least second harmonic distortion is easy on the ears - when a Krell clips it's frightening - and usually takes out the speaker.

It is impossible to blow a speaker with a 3 watt amp - not so with your 150 watt Krell/Bryston whatever.

Sadly the SS kool-aid is drunk by the numbers is better fools. More damping factor, more feedback, more watts - must be good - selling bigger is better to male shoppers makes sense from a marketing standpoint - most men are easily led by bigger and more is better.

[markw]

Measure a SET amp at .001 watt - then measure most SS amps at .001 watt - SETs when not driven into clipping have FAR superior measured performance than any SS amp - crossover distortion - SET doesn't crossover. Measure a feedback amp BEFORE the feedback loop engages to artificially make the numbers look better (when in fact they're not). The fact that SS is dirt cheap to make and far more profitable as a result. The Kool-Aid is is believing cheap parts at sometimes high prices = good sound.

See SS amps need a bucket of corrective measures just to remotely work properly.

Consider the folks on forums who blather about power and loads. I need a 3000 watt Krell amp to drive my 1 ohm speaker nonsense. Yeah a combo that generally sounds lousy but what all these people fail to realize is that the ONLY amps that are truly LOAD STABLE are Single Ended amplifiers.

WHAT? Oh yeah didn't you know those pathetic expensive SS amps of a billion watts need fuse protection - if they could actually DRIVE difficult loads they would not need it. Take an Audio Note kit one - put a screwdrive across the outputs and run the amp 24/7 for a year. The amp is driving an infinite load - that is load stable - it can drive ANY load. Now take your SS amp and remove the protection circuitry and stick a screwdriver across the outputs of you Krell or $30,000 Bryston amp - and within 5 minutes you'll need a fire extinguisher. Hell Krell catches on fire even when they have their fuses in place.

It's funny but SET amps have NEVER lost a blind level matched audition - ever. Even the Sugden which is a SS Set has beaten every amp it's ever gone up against despite having more distortion.

Amplifier distortion is a fraction of the distortion of even the best speakers - far less distortion than what a Magnepan or Quad puts out. Distortion is a no starter - the only time a SET distorts is when it is driven beyond it's ability - umm guess what buddy - do that to a SS amp and the distortion is about 100 times worse. At least second harmonic distortion is easy on the ears - when a Krell clips it's frightening - and usually takes out the speaker.

It is impossible to blow a speaker with a 3 watt amp - not so with your 150 watt Krell/Bryston whatever.

Sadly the SS kool-aid is drunk by the numbers is better fools. More damping factor, more feedback, more watts - must be good - selling bigger is better to male shoppers makes sense from a marketing standpoint - most men are easily led by bigger and more is better.

Whatever, RGA. You can feel free to beleve whatever warm, fuzzy philosophies you wish, but the world does seem to see otherwise. ..thankfully.

And, since you like to point out here that speakers themselves add more distortion than amps, doesn't that make your distortion rants somewhat moot? In any case, the best way to avoid (amplifier) distortion is to have enough to not drive the poor thing into clipping, doncha think? Most sensible people have realized that the best way to prevent distortion from over-driving is to, well, simply have enough clean power to avoid that situation.

But, at least you do admit that you like the sweet, syrupy sound of even-order harmonics. Rock musicians have known that for ages. That's a preference, not necessarily a positive attribute in music reproduction.

Finally, I do like the way you try to drag sexism into it by saying that having more power is a male trait. Not to sound too Freudian, but are you sure you're not trying to justify a lack of something here? Is this your way of saying "it ain't the meat, it's the motion"? Or is it that you just like looking at that big, bulbous tube that turns you on? No problem, dude, amplifier power you can buy. Self-esteem, well...