Just wondering....

[Feanor]

Bottom line is that the dispatcher told him to stay in his car and leave the kid alone. End of story. Gun laws mean nothing here. Failure to follow simple instructions was the main problem.

Stand your ground does not mean carry when you're not supposed to be, confronting someone when you're told not to, and then shooting that person sounds way far from standing your own ground. I am thinking it is supposed to mean that if someone breaks into your home, you can shoot first and ask questions later, not attack and shoot and then claim otherwise.

It remains to be seen whether Stand-you-ground will be invoked in this case. Of course Zimmerman ought to have followed police instructions. I suggest because he was carrying a gun he was emboldened to confront Martin instead of following instructions.

This is the significance of too many people with guns: that it provokes rash behavior leading to death 'way too often.

[Hyfi]

Sorry, it's not "too many people with guns" it is more like 'too many idiots with guns' giving a bad name to the majority of gun owners that are not idiots. I have 6 handguns and a Permit to Carry. I have carried maybe 10 times in 15 years. I do however keep them loaded and hidden around the house in various hidden places and I will stand my ground if needed. But, I don't go looking for trouble as GZ did feeling like a tough guy with a gun.

GZs job as a Neighborhood Watch participant ended with his call to the police. Period!

The reference to all his other calls and statements like "They always get away" shows this to be more racially motivated than not. I would bet if it was a chubby white boy with his pants falling down, his actions would have been different. But it was a black kid in a hoody, which in his views meant criminal.

[Feanor]

Sorry, it's not "too many people with guns" it is more like 'too many idiots with guns' giving a bad name to the majority of gun owners that are not idiots. I have 6 handguns and a Permit to Carry. I have carried maybe 10 times in 15 years. I do however keep them loaded and hidden around the house in various hidden places and I will stand my ground if needed. But, I don't go looking for trouble as GZ did feeling like a tough guy with a gun.

So I guess we'll have to disagree to some extent. I own three handguns myself because I used to target shoot at a range. I'm confident I could use such weapons responsibly at all times but I'm not so sure about other people; you can't just dismiss Zimmerman as an aberration of human behaviour.

Incidentally my guns are virtually useless for self-defence since the Canadian requirements for storage, especially of handguns, renders them practically inaccessible in an an emergency such as home invasion. And it's noteworthy that self-defence against hypothetical intruders is NOT a valid justification for a gun permit. Up here we not only have a background check but a 5 year renewable permit to own any type of gun. There are additional requirements in order to purchase any type of gun and yet more restrictions to own or purchase handguns. Having fewer guns and stricter handling restrictions in Canada means we have fewer than 1/4 the total gun deaths and 1/7 the gun homicides per capital that you have in the USA -- it certainly isn't because Canadians are any less idiots than Americans. (See Wiki reference HERE.)

[Hyfi]

So I guess we'll have to disagree to some extent. I own three handguns myself because I used to target shoot at a range. I'm confident I could use such weapons responsibly at all times but I'm not so sure about other people; you can't just dismiss Zimmerman as an aberration of human behaviour.

Incidentally my guns are virtually useless for self-defence since the Canadian requirements for storage, especially of handguns, renders them practically inaccessible in an an emergency such as home invasion. And it's noteworthy that self-defence against hypothetical intruders is NOT a valid justification for a gun permit. Up here we not only have a background check but a 5 year renewable permit to own any type of gun. There are additional requirements in order to purchase any type of gun and yet more restrictions to own or purchase handguns. Having fewer guns and stricter handling restrictions in Canada means we have fewer than 1/4 the total gun deaths and 1/7 the gun homicides per capital that you have in the USA -- it certainly isn't because Canadians are any less idiots than Americans. (See Wiki reference HERE.)

My permit also needs to be renewed every 5 years. Every gun I purchased had a waiting and background check period of a week. And I did not get the permit under a hypothetical home invasion paranoia, I got it because it is my right and my county approves law abiding citizens to do so. You don't need the permit to have them in your house, in any fashion you wish, the permit is to carry a concealed weapon. I would rather it be in the open and we have groups in my county debating just that now.



Simple Math can show you why you have a lower percentage of issues. And I am betting we have a few more illegals here too than you.
Canada
Population: 34,568,211 (July 2013 est.)
USA
Population: 316,668,567 (July 2013 est.)

And like Mark says, come vacation in Philly or Newark for a week and see if you feel the same way.

By the way, Happy Birthday Mark!

[Feanor]

My permit also needs to be renewed every 5 years. Every gun I purchased had a waiting and background check period of a week. And I did not get the permit under a hypothetical home invasion paranoia, I got it because it is my right and my county approves law abiding citizens to do so. You don't need the permit to have them in your house, in any fashion you wish, the permit is to carry a concealed weapon. I would rather it be in the open and we have groups in my county debating just that now.

Simple Math can show you why you have a lower percentage of issues. And I am betting we have a few more illegals here too than you.
Canada
Population: 34,568,211 (July 2013 est.)
USA
Population: 316,668,567 (July 2013 est.)

And like Mark says, come vacation in Philly or Newark for a week and see if you feel the same way.

By the way, Happy Birthday Mark!

Well Happy Birthday to Mark.

Concealed carry permits are practically impossible to get in Canada; if they were I'd apply for one. However the last thing I'd want, personally, is to be actually seen carrying a gun.

The highest crime rates in Canada are among aboriginals, (native Indians). You're right that we don't have the same volume of illegal immigrants here. On the other hand Canada admits about 3x the number of (legal) immigrants per capita compared to the USA. Overall crime rates are trending slightly downward here as they are in the USA.

I'm not sure why total population size would have much to do with fewer gun deaths. According to the same reference I sited, Honduras has the highest rate of gun homicides, 64.8/100k (!!) and its population is only 8.2M. Looking at city sizes, the population of the greater Toronto area is 5.5M and the homicide rate is 3.3/100k, while the greater Detroit area has a similar pop of 5.2M but a homicide rate of 46/100k.

Despite that I'm a gun owner myself, I'm inclined to believe that, overall statistically, guns don't protect us, they get us killed.

[JohnMichael]

As a self liking liberal I am able to see when race or any reason to hate is part of the situation. GZ could not help himself and had to get out of his car and elevate the situation. He had to have the upper hand.

I have been the victim of extreme hate so I can recognize it. I believe that is what drove George Zimmerman.

[markw]

As a self liking liberal I am able to see when race or any reason to hate is part of the situation. GZ could not help himself and had to get out of his car and elevate the situation. He had to have the upper hand.

I have been the victim of extreme hate so I can recognize it. I believe that is what drove George Zimmerman.

Sorry, John, you weren't there, and neither was I. We're both at the mercy of what MSM chooses to feed us, and that was the crux of my post.

But, sometimes when things don't look "right", some investigation is called for. It was mentioned that there have been "happeniongs" in that neighborhood in the past and he was just checking the situation out. Perhaps Mr. Zimmernman's curiosity could have prevented this recent occurance in an upper-class, liberal, lily-white, neighborhood. Sumptin' tells me that applications for gun permits are gonna soar in that neighborhood.

No offense, but you live in a place where problems are relatively few. If you want an education of what goes on around here on a daily basis, periodicaly check out NJ.COM to see what goes on around here on a daily basis. We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto.

[dean_martin]

Sorry, John, you weren't there, and neither was I. We're both at the mercy of what MSM chooses to feed us, and that was the crux of my post.

Your "crux" is wrong. We can watch the trial live and re-plays at night. Stop rolling out that tired old BS about the msm. I'll give you this much, however, PRE-TRIAL publicity can be less than thorough, not necessarily because the media is filtering in favor of one side or the other but because the actual parties are releasing their most favorable spin.

[frenchmon]

This is getting interesting. Those pictures of Zimmerman with his nose all busted up and bloody was right after the gun shoot. At least that's what the girl who called that popular 911 shot with the scream in the back ground said. But Martin did not have a scratch on his hands or blood any where on his body...all but a little on his shirt. Something aint right. If you punch someones nose bloody and break it and its bleeding all over, you have to have a least a little trace of blood on you but Martin had none. George also said in an earlier recording that he did not know who scream that was, but now its suppose to be his screams for help. I assume that will come out after all the witnesses have testified.

Also...the 19 year old girl was not as intelligent as she should have been. She was confusing at times and the defense took advantage of her in a bad way, but she was very believable in her testimony. She could not read cursive writing and will finish high school a year later...but that's ok...she is going to the 12th grade. She is of Dominican and Hattie heritage, and speaks very softly...that may be why her English is a little broken making it hard to understand. Even tho the defense twisted her into a pretzel, she is very credible...at least in my opinion.

After hearing the other 4, 911 calls by GZ, I am convinced he was profiling black guys. He put all black guys who came in his hood in one group and as no good. If I walked in that hood to go visit JM who also lived there, and GZ saw me, he would assume I was there to rob the place, he would then call 911 and then follow me.....and to be clear....GZ had 50 such calls.

[markw]

Your "crux" is wrong. We can watch the trial live and re-plays at night. Stop rolling out that tired old BS about the msm. I'll give you this much, however, PRE-TRIAL publicity can be less than thorough, not necessarily because the media is filtering in favor of one side or the other but because the actual parties are releasing their most favorable spin.

We can watch the entire trial but we both know most of the country won't. They'll fight for the scraps the MSM throws out on the nightly news and internet websites. Also, we both know that peoples minds were made up before the trial even started, and now they are lining up for the lynching.

I'd really like to see the baby shooter I linked to earlier held up to MSM public scrutiny like this fiasco was, but you know that ain't gonna happen. ...and you know why.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

We can watch the entire trial but we both know most of the country won't. They'll fight for the scraps the MSM throws out on the nightly news and internet websites. Also, we both know that peoples minds were made up before the trial even started, and now they are lining up for the lynching.

I'd really like to see the baby shooter I linked to earlier held up to MSM public scrutiny like this fiasco was, but you know that ain't gonna happen. ...and you know why.

Mark, you are just plain tiring, and sound like a broken needle with all of this liberal crap. This is about a life, not about politics. A young black male was shot dead for no reason at all, and you still think this is about liberal/conservative. We are not talking about any other case here than the Martin/Zimmerman case. So give us a break with the mud, so the water can remain clear.