Just wondering....

[Hyfi]

So I guess we'll have to disagree to some extent. I own three handguns myself because I used to target shoot at a range. I'm confident I could use such weapons responsibly at all times but I'm not so sure about other people; you can't just dismiss Zimmerman as an aberration of human behaviour.

Incidentally my guns are virtually useless for self-defence since the Canadian requirements for storage, especially of handguns, renders them practically inaccessible in an an emergency such as home invasion. And it's noteworthy that self-defence against hypothetical intruders is NOT a valid justification for a gun permit. Up here we not only have a background check but a 5 year renewable permit to own any type of gun. There are additional requirements in order to purchase any type of gun and yet more restrictions to own or purchase handguns. Having fewer guns and stricter handling restrictions in Canada means we have fewer than 1/4 the total gun deaths and 1/7 the gun homicides per capital that you have in the USA -- it certainly isn't because Canadians are any less idiots than Americans. (See Wiki reference HERE.)

My permit also needs to be renewed every 5 years. Every gun I purchased had a waiting and background check period of a week. And I did not get the permit under a hypothetical home invasion paranoia, I got it because it is my right and my county approves law abiding citizens to do so. You don't need the permit to have them in your house, in any fashion you wish, the permit is to carry a concealed weapon. I would rather it be in the open and we have groups in my county debating just that now.



Simple Math can show you why you have a lower percentage of issues. And I am betting we have a few more illegals here too than you.
Canada
Population: 34,568,211 (July 2013 est.)
USA
Population: 316,668,567 (July 2013 est.)

And like Mark says, come vacation in Philly or Newark for a week and see if you feel the same way.

By the way, Happy Birthday Mark!

[markw]

Your "crux" is wrong. We can watch the trial live and re-plays at night. Stop rolling out that tired old BS about the msm. I'll give you this much, however, PRE-TRIAL publicity can be less than thorough, not necessarily because the media is filtering in favor of one side or the other but because the actual parties are releasing their most favorable spin.

We can watch the entire trial but we both know most of the country won't. They'll fight for the scraps the MSM throws out on the nightly news and internet websites. Also, we both know that peoples minds were made up before the trial even started, and now they are lining up for the lynching.

I'd really like to see the baby shooter I linked to earlier held up to MSM public scrutiny like this fiasco was, but you know that ain't gonna happen. ...and you know why.

[Feanor]

My permit also needs to be renewed every 5 years. Every gun I purchased had a waiting and background check period of a week. And I did not get the permit under a hypothetical home invasion paranoia, I got it because it is my right and my county approves law abiding citizens to do so. You don't need the permit to have them in your house, in any fashion you wish, the permit is to carry a concealed weapon. I would rather it be in the open and we have groups in my county debating just that now.

Simple Math can show you why you have a lower percentage of issues. And I am betting we have a few more illegals here too than you.
Canada
Population: 34,568,211 (July 2013 est.)
USA
Population: 316,668,567 (July 2013 est.)

And like Mark says, come vacation in Philly or Newark for a week and see if you feel the same way.

By the way, Happy Birthday Mark!

Well Happy Birthday to Mark.

Concealed carry permits are practically impossible to get in Canada; if they were I'd apply for one. However the last thing I'd want, personally, is to be actually seen carrying a gun.

The highest crime rates in Canada are among aboriginals, (native Indians). You're right that we don't have the same volume of illegal immigrants here. On the other hand Canada admits about 3x the number of (legal) immigrants per capita compared to the USA. Overall crime rates are trending slightly downward here as they are in the USA.

I'm not sure why total population size would have much to do with fewer gun deaths. According to the same reference I sited, Honduras has the highest rate of gun homicides, 64.8/100k (!!) and its population is only 8.2M. Looking at city sizes, the population of the greater Toronto area is 5.5M and the homicide rate is 3.3/100k, while the greater Detroit area has a similar pop of 5.2M but a homicide rate of 46/100k.

Despite that I'm a gun owner myself, I'm inclined to believe that, overall statistically, guns don't protect us, they get us killed.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

We can watch the entire trial but we both know most of the country won't. They'll fight for the scraps the MSM throws out on the nightly news and internet websites. Also, we both know that peoples minds were made up before the trial even started, and now they are lining up for the lynching.

I'd really like to see the baby shooter I linked to earlier held up to MSM public scrutiny like this fiasco was, but you know that ain't gonna happen. ...and you know why.

Mark, you are just plain tiring, and sound like a broken needle with all of this liberal crap. This is about a life, not about politics. A young black male was shot dead for no reason at all, and you still think this is about liberal/conservative. We are not talking about any other case here than the Martin/Zimmerman case. So give us a break with the mud, so the water can remain clear.

[bobsticks]

Guilty! George did everything wrong. If he had stayed in his car like the dispatcher suggested. Knock, knock

Simply, this ^^^

[markw]

Mark, you are just plain tiring, and sound like a broken needle with all of this liberal crap. This is about a life, not about politics. A young black male was shot dead for no reason at all, and you still think this is about liberal/conservative. We are not talking about any other case here than the Martin/Zimmerman case. So give us a break with the mud, so the water can remain clear.

Frankly, terry, I couldn't care less about what you think.

As I said earlier, your minds are alread made up. Reading this thread confirms that. You're all just sitting here, rubbing tour hands, looking for reasons to justify your already formed beliefs, and having a schadenfreude orgasm waiting for the verdict.

Now, since the trial isn't over, were did these beliefs come from?

Apparantly that a 13 month old WHITE baby was shot in the face in his stroller right in front of his mother by a BLACK punk doesn't seem to bother you at all, and if that in itself isn't racist, I don't know what is. And the same goes for MSM for dropping this one and crucifying Zimmerman, a latino.

Remember, I'm not defending anoone here. I'm just pointing out that the media has played y'all (plural for yall), and y'all too brainwashed to admit it.

So, deal with it, terry.

[JohnMichael]

Mark we are talking about the Zimmerman trial. Let us not bring every tragic event into this thread. You are welcome to participate but be respectful.

By the way what is MSM?

[dean_martin]

Frankly, terry, I couldn't care less about what you think.

As I said earlier, your minds are alread made up. Reading this thread confirms that. You're all just sitting here, rubbing tour hands, looking for reasons to justify your already formed beliefs, and having a schadenfreude orgasm waiting for the verdict.

Now, since the trial isn't over, were did these beliefs come from?

Apparantly that a 13 month old WHITE baby was shot in the face in his stroller right in front of his mother by a BLACK punk doesn't seem to bother you at all, and if that in itself isn't racist, I don't know what is. And the same goes for MSM for dropping this one and crucifying Zimmerman, a latino.

Remember, I'm not defending anoone here. I'm just pointing out that the media has played y'all (plural for yall), and y'all too brainwashed to admit it.

So, deal with it, terry.

Mark, it's the two sides, the state and the victim's family, that have gone to the media in this one. The state almost always gets a jump on the defense. But, I remember the Zimmerman team's "push back" which included injuries to Zimmerman's head, the brother's media tour and Martin's troubles in school. Both sides were covered by the so-called msm leading up to the trial.

There are so many news outlets today. I think what we thought of as the mainstream media in the past has become quite diluted.

[markw]

Mark we are talking about the Zimmerman trial. Let us not bring every tragic event into this thread. You are welcome to participate but be respectful.

Respect is a two way street. I'm merely pointing out how easily people are whipped into a blood-thirsty mob by the media, and apparantly that riles one or more here. I do wonder how a supposedly educated population could be so easily maniplated.

By the way what is MSM? I am aware of MSN, CNN, FAUX but not MSM. Sounds like something I would like.

I do hope that's a joke. If not, well, I think I just got some insight into one of my questions.

[Hyfi]

Respect is a two way street. I'm merely pointing out how easily people are whipped into a blood-thirsty mob by the media, and apparantly that riles one or more here. I do wonder how a supposedly educated population could be so easily maniplated.

I do hope that's a joke. If not, well, I think I just got some insight into one of my questions.

So Mark, are you saying that you feel that a guy with a gun who got out of his car and followed the kid when told not to, and then shot him did so in self defense? Are you saying the kid deserved to get killed and instigated the whole thing?

That is what it sounds like, media or no media.

[JohnMichael]

Mark by respect I meant how you adress other members.

[Hyfi]

Mark by respect I meant how you adress other members.

Here we go again....you may want to check the post he responded to for Respect, yeah, the one you "Liked"

[JohnMichael]

Here we go again....you may want to check the post he responded to for Respect, yeah, the one you "Liked"

I was responding to Mark calling Sir T by terry. Sir T called Mark, Mark and not marky. I liked the point Sir T was making and yes it could have been worded differently. If we are talking about the Zimmerman trial bringing anything else into it muddies the waters.

[markw]

So Mark, are you saying that you feel that a guy with a gun who got out of his car and followed the kid when told not to, and then shot him did so in self defense? Are you saying the kid deserved to get killed and instigated the whole thing?

That is what it sounds like, media or no media.

No, I think Zimmernman was an idiot and deserves to pay for it. Shooting an apparantly unarmed person does warrant some questions. I would like to know exactly what happened but I don't think it's as black and white (no pun intended) as everbody thinks.

My point in this tread was it amazes me how much media play this one crime gets when, in when big picture, there were many more crimes worthy of a public lynching. That baby shot in the face, for instance, but like I said earlier, a black shooting whites (even a 13 month old baby, apparantly) isn't news, but a latino shooting a black guarantees lotsa viewers. Playing two race cards at once here.

Gotta go with the entertainment factor here, and everyone loves a good lynching.

[markw]

I was responding to Mark calling Sir T by terry. Sir T called Mark, Mark and not marky. I liked the point Sir T was making and yes it could have been worded differently. If we are talking about the Zimmerman trial bringing anything else into it muddies the waters.

Sorry,but when he "talks" to me in that manner, I see no reason to play up to his affectations by wasting time typing out his long, pretentious, name just to feed his already over-inflated ego.

[Hyfi]

I was responding to Mark calling Sir T by terry. Sir T called Mark, Mark and not marky. I liked the point Sir T was making and yes it could have been worded differently. If we are talking about the Zimmerman trial bringing anything else into it muddies the waters.

OK, now you are getting a bit picky. You reprimanded me for calling you JM and not your full name, but I see others do that often without you saying a word. Keep it consistent.

Mark was merely pointing out how things get skewed depending on what race did what to who, and he was dead on.

People who create ridiculously long moniker names are sure to have them truncated from time to time, and if anyone gets bent about it they need to just grow up.

[JohnMichael]

If I ever reacted to being called JM I was either being sarcastic or had enough of your whining. I never write out Sir T's full name and do you know how he got his name? If he had called him Sir T, Terrence I would have not responded but to me calling him terry is meant to demean.

OK, now you are getting a bit picky. You reprimanded me for calling you JM and not your full name, but I see others do that often without you saying a word. Keep it consistent.

Mark was merely pointing out how things get skewed depending on what race did what to who, and he was dead on.

People who create ridiculously long moniker names are sure to have them truncated from time to time, and if anyone gets bent about it they need to just grow up.

[Hyfi]

If I ever reacted to being called JM I was either being sarcastic or had enough of your whining. I never write out Sir T's full name and do you know how he got his name? If he had called him Sir T, Terrence I would have not responded but to me calling him terry is meant to demean.

Don't know how, don't really care. Your grasping here. How is calling someone by a truncation of their name demeaning?

OK I won't muddy this thread any more than it is, JM.

[markw]

I have two friends named "Terrance". Neither one is so pompus as to demand they be called that. Eveyone calls them "Terry". No problemo, and ain't no way in hell I'm calling him "sir".

Now that my point has been made to those capable of undertanding it, you may now rejoin your regularly scheduled lynching, already in progress.

[dean_martin]

I have two friends named "Terrance". Neither one is so pompus as to demand they be called that. Eveyone calls them "Terry". No problemo, and ain't no way in hell I'm calling him "sir".

Now that my point has been made to those capable of undertanding it, you may now rejoin your regularly scheduled lynching, already in progress.

Mark, I read your linked article on the baby-shooting case and read some follow-up articles. It seems that the authorities are being a little tight-lipped. That's the main reason it's not getting much play in the media. The media doesn't have a lot to chew on. Because of the outrageous nature of the shooting, as long as the authorities have correctly identified the perpetrators, it should be an "open and shut" case. No debate necessary.

The Zimmerman case, OTOH, has lots of juicy tidbits, such as self-defense and possible racial profiling and vigilantism.

[JohnMichael]

I have two friends named "Terrance". Neither one is so pompus as to demand they be called that. Eveyone calls them "Terry". No problemo, and ain't no way in hell I'm calling him "sir".

Now that my point has been made to those capable of undertanding it, you may now rejoin your regularly scheduled lynching, already in progress.

I think comprehension on both sides are lacking. You may call your friend Terry but Sir T, terry. You as well as others like to instigate. Back to the Zimmerman trial.

[Hyfi]

So one witness says the guy on top was Martin, another says the guy on top was the one that got up.

If I was on the jury, all I would need is a few questions from the prosecutor to GZ.

Prosecutor- Did you call 911?
GZ- Yes

Prosecutor- Did they tell you to stay in your car or not follow the person?
GZ- Yes

Case closed.

[JohnMichael]

I agree. Zimmerman was neighborhood WATCH not follow, confront and shoot. What drove him to need to confront Martin. What drove him to think of Martin as up to something that he needed to follow and confront. Prejudging Martin is what must have motivated his actions.

So one witness says the guy on top was Martin, another says the guy on top was the one that got up.

If I was on the jury, all I would need is a few questions from the prosecutor to GZ.

Prosecutor- Did you call 911?
GZ- Yes

Prosecutor- Did they tell you to stay in your car or not follow the person?
GZ- Yes

Case closed.

[Hyfi]

Prejudging Martin is what must have motivated his actions.

And his gun fulfilled them because this time "They didn't get away"

[markw]

Mark, I read your linked article on the baby-shooting case and read some follow-up articles. It seems that the authorities are being a little tight-lipped. That's the main reason it's not getting much play in the media. The media doesn't have a lot to chew on. Because of the outrageous nature of the shooting, as long as the authorities have correctly identified the perpetrators, it should be an "open and shut" case. No debate necessary.

The Zimmerman case, OTOH, has lots of juicy tidbits, such as self-defense and possible racial profiling and vigilantism.

Thank you. This actually make sense and makes me believe that you might be the only one here who was capable of listening rationaly to what I was saying as opposed to sticking their fingers in their ears and going "la la la la". For them, yeah, it's just a public lynching.