Islam: Our Partners in Peace...

[nightflier]

...your postulation that living under the yoke of European colonialists who took over by force and being ruled by "benevolent rulers" being preferable to not is highly questionable.

...I cannot think of any white-male dominated country that is under Christian and Western economic control as being any place for a non-Christian or a woman to live safely....

Do you get the meaning of a new immigrant from the Middle East in a Western Country? That is essentially a second-class citizen who has to pay for safety and still has to follow Christian law that is geared towards profit rather than welfare....

Look carefully at the population stats for the Middle East and you'll see that, just like the US was doing in its own country, and then in the Phillipines and Latin America, the Middle East was being invaded by colonialists, and a foreign influence was slowly taking over.

Read ...(references too many to list) and then you tell me that colonial hegemony is not something to be carefully monitored. There is no negotiation involved. When a Christian and colonial power can, it will apply it's own laws.

...

Of course, if you don't mind your grand-kids living under Christian profit-motivated laws that don't guaranty their welfare, then that's your choice.

Pot, meet kettle.

And while I don't disagree with you, and I share the Western perspective that punishment in Sharia Law countries is inhumane, the people who live in those societies (yes, even women) don't all share all our criticisms of it. While certainly not ideal, we also have to recognize that their lives are safer, healthier, and happier in many cases. Crime rates are incredibly low; suicide rates, homelessness, and unemployment are practically non-existent, social bonds are stronger, charitable giving is 2-3 times greater, and infant mortality rates are lower than our own. Imagine not having to lock your car, or your home. Even simpler things like child care when you work is more readily available. Perhaps our disdain for their way of life is more rooted in our lack of knowledge about it.

I'm of the opinion that we can learn a lot from them as well as they can learn from us. But the xenophobic posturing that many of us take on when the topic of Islamic culture invading ours is brought up, only serves to increase tensions and drive us apart. This leads to less understanding, cooperation, and exchanges and ultimately a less safe world for both our cultures. With our crusading and colonial ways, we haven't exactly put our best foot forward. And our political, military, and economic hegemony of the past 100 years have hardly served to demonstrate that our way is better for them. It is a 2-world system where the rift grows deeper every time we focus on our differences rather than our commonalities. Dwelling on the minor impact of their culture as invading ours not only glosses over our own violently invading ways, but makes resolving our differences that much harder because we get lost in xenophobic irrationality.

While we talk of individualism, self-determination, and Manifest Destiny as virtues, coming from the dominant power, these ideals also smack of us-vs.them thinking, isolationism and the act of putting up walls between cultures. In essence, it is the antithesis of society. In nature, an isolated culture dies out and we should heed that lesson. At what point do we stop segregating out "undesirable" elements in our own society? After the Muslims are gone, do we then go after Catholics? Then Mormons? Jews? Unitarians? Pentecostals? And once we are all of the same church, do we then use skin color, gender-preference, income, birth, to further purify our ideal society? Dr. Strangelove would blush at the prospect, I'm sure....

It seems that many conservatives, Republicans, and religious-minded folks here in the US, are so focused on individualistic ideals and defending their possessions and beliefs that they loose sight of the fact that their views are really anti-social, anti-societal, and only viable on an individual basis. Living with others requires compromises, give-and-take, and tolerance. Anyone who doesn't believe so isn't married, lol. A society of one is not a society anymore.

There was a time during the cold war, when the a common criticism of extreme communists was that they were quite similar to fascists. I think the same logic can be applied here. At what point do our Western conservatives veer so far to the right that they meet Sharia Law fanatics on the other side? Wake up people: they are preaching the same isolationist and invasion-fearing rhetoric that some of us are. Perhaps unfortunately for both of you, real society, growth, and ultimately, the survival of our species, lies somewhere in between.

[markw]

Boy, you sure see things through rose-colored glasses, don't you? You make ithe muslim way of life look like some sort of idealistic society where justice prevails and evil is put in it's place and the western worlsdis the playground of satan.

If you want to talk about a second-class citizen, go live in a muslim controlled country. Be sure to bring your wife and daughters.

You DO realize thatt you've posted pretty much the he biggest load I've seen since I took colon-blow.

P.S. this was directed at nightflier.