If Romney gets in which country will America start a war with next?

[Hyfi]

He doesn't hang out here, he spews up here.

The main point is that he is no different than those he has accused of being a hater. Not even sure where that came from tho. RGA or others don't hate people because they believe differently, they just respectfully disagree and challenge them.

[markw]

You hang out here

While I'll occasionally drop off some technical know-how, I much prefer to drop into the off topic forum to dump a baby-ruth in the pool. It's fun to tease the natives.

That's the only real action here. All the other forums here are generally just more of the same from the same misanthropic inbreds that post here. New blood goes running for the hills. ...and rightly so.

[Hyfi]

While I'll occasionally drop off some technical know-how, I much prefer to drop into the off topic forum to dump a baby-ruth in the pool.

That's pretty obvious

[markw]

That's pretty obvious

Virtually all other "real" audio forums have limits on what topics can be discussed and, if you've ever noticed, they generally have a healthy post count and new members come and go on a regular basis, not to mention no lack of advertisers. IOW, they run a class act and still manage to thrive and grow.

I remember in "the old days" when AR actually had a presence in the NY Hi-Fi shows. But, that's when this was a real site, not a sham that depends on potty talk and a refuge for a few malcontents who enjoy stroking each others egos.

I guess the management here is desperate to keep what they have and allow this trash-talk in order to not chase away the few people that still frequent here.

Wallow happily, my friends. When you wallow, think AR.

[Hyfi]

Virtually all other "real" audio forums have limits on what topics can be discussed and, if you've ever noticed, they generally have a healthy post count and new members come and go on a regular basis, not to mention no lack of advertisers. IOW, they run a class act and still manage to thrive and grow.

I remember in "the old days" when AR actually had a presence in the NY Hi-Fi shows. But, that's when this was a real site, not a sham that depends on potty talk and a refuge for a few malcontents who enjoy stroking each others egos.

I guess the management here is desperate to keep what they have and allow this trash-talk in order to not chase away the few people that still frequent here.

Wallow happily, my friends. When you wallow, think AR.

So why are you here? Don't you have a better place for all your input? If you are so disgruntled with this place, have your account deleted and go away, you won't be missed. Anyway, I can see your same old stuff on the other forums.

[markw]

So why are you here? Don't you have a better place for all your input? If you are so disgruntled with this place, have your account deleted and go away, you won't be missed. Anyway, I can see your same old stuff on the other forums.

Same as you others. I like to spew, too. This is my vent.

If you'll notice, my input here on 9/12 or so was fairly innocuous and was in keeping with the original subject.

You boys took it from there. Don't try to lay your off-topic shiite on me. I didn't direct the flow. Y'all did.

and, I do help those that I can on occasion .

[frenchmon]

Frenchmon, if I may take a stab at one of your questions

Sky God

I would say he is talking about the God that Christians believe in where they see Him (never her) as an entity that sits on a throne in a make believe place called Heaven and wields his judgements on all of us sinners.

In reality, God is an energy source, the outcome or maybe even the cause of the big bang. Nobody will prove it one way or another in our lifetime or many to come.

The faith part comes in because people have Faith that the Sky God will Judge them justly and allow them into Heaven because they asked for forgiveness.

I don't buy into all of this and never really have. I do believe we are all spiritually connected by the energy I mentioned above. We are all one as well as everything around us. We are made from the same building blocks and atoms that were spewed out during the big bang.

I will not tell people that believing and having their faith is wrong, just not for me. What I do find odd is that as Christians get older and more scared as to afterlife, Heaven or Hell, they start trying to buy their way in to heaven.

I have spent many years going to different churches and reading many books and came up with something that works for me. I incorporate bits of all of them since for the most part, they are all after the same thing. What I do object to are the rituals and fluff that has nothing to do with being good to everyone around you and treating others the way you would like to be treated.

I try to live by a similar code as those preached by Jesus, and many others already said the same things before he was ever born, but without an Organized Religion to collect my money and give me false hopes.

Don't even get me started on Tithing and the way it is used to make you feel guilty.

nice post Hyfi...and yeah, tithing went out with the old covenant.

[frenchmon]

Frenchy, you are casting pearls before a swine here. RGA does not like religion, does not believe in God, and takes 300,000 words to say what he can say in 10.

By continuing to engage with RGA, you just give him a full platform to post his ignorance and lack of comprehension regarding the Bible.

Personally, I think we should all eat Barbeque, drink beer, have a group hug, and sing kumbaya in four part harmony. Wait, RGA can't participate in that.......

Yeah....I believe you are correct here....I will stop here....lets get this thread back to politics.....But Hyfi is correct...you sort of slow down and take a look. Rubber necking.

[RGA]

I'll be the first to admit that I am not as up on the Bible as some but that's like saying I'm not as up on Lord of the Rings novels or Beowulf as some English professors. Since none of the three should be used as "evidence" or "proof" of anything it isn't really in play. Others such as Richard Dawkins grew up Catholic, know the Bible as well as it can be known is smarter than everyone on this board and is much better at ripping down this dumb religion from Bible verse than I.

If you don't know what the term Sky God means read some books. If you believe the earth is 6000 years old and want proof otherwise - read some science books. If you want to know that evolution is in fact a FACT read some science books not religious crazies who don't understand what evolution actually is - we don't come from monkeys - now you do some reading, Start with the God Delusion since it's written for the Layman and is about as spoon-fed as it gets although some find Dawkins a little insulting but if you set that aside and it's not a sin to "just read" a book that questions "God" then that's the place to start.

I am not anti-most people who believe by the way - I don't care that someone is religious - I have Mormon and Pastor friends but where the problem lies is in the belief running their life such that it ends up running mine and other non believers.

I am sure most Christians would not like their life run by Muslim doctrines in any way shape or form. When Bush attacks Iraq because "God told him to" that affects the entire country. Granted he may have just used that wording as propaganda to get Christian right on his side but still - it got some on his side or he would not have bothered to say it. That act affected the entire economy and killed lots of innocent people. And it affected more countries than just the USA and Iraq.

And that's the problem. The average Joe Christian frankly no one cares if you believe in God - believe away. Perfectly harmless upstanding individuals and if faith makes you happy and/or keeps you from committing crimes (as it does for some) then more power to the belief (yes I believe it is good for numerous people).

Even chucking science under the bus for the average person isn't a real problem but again it is a real problem when it affects me. Teaching intelligent design in Science class as a legit "theory" or not teaching evolution is hugely problematic. You want to Intelligent Design have it taught at Sunday School - leave science the hell alone.

[RGA]

Sir T

I find your form of intellectual dishonesty head scratching. You present intellectual ideas you have some understanding of the notion of test the beliefs of others. When someone says vinyl is better than CD you, more than most, took what they said and explored the technology and the lack of evidence and said technically CD should be superior to vinyl. You even went one further than that and actually auditioned the master tape, CD, and a vinyl pressing.

Then you chuck out your brain out the window researching the utter idiocy and illogic of "faith." Something which one bases their entire life and world view on is slightly more important than whether CD is better that vinyl.

And that's the problem with the word "faith"

There would be no problems if the word faith meant faith - but Christians and other religious followers don't see a difference between "Faith and Fact" To them faith is a fact. There is 100% a GOD who listens to them, there is 100% some sort of hell, there is 100% a heaven that only believers get to go to.

When one believes so strongly and adamantly that this "faith" is a fact then you get the likes of Westboro.

Of course 90% of Christians are not that adamant or extreme but it certainly is the case that most Christians are anti-gay, vote republican, and believe that RGA is going to hell for being Atheist. I am therefore "other" and "worse" than they merely because I don't believe. Now in everyday normal 2012 life this doesn't matter but it doesn't take much for the winds to change and I find myself in a concentration camp. And history is littered with the "other" being segregated for such things. The 90% follow the herd and certainly are not at the forefront of stopping gay bashing, or intelligent design in schools, or stem cell research etc. That passivity is a form of support.

Hold your "Sky God" (one God) to the standards of basic logic, sciences and reason. The wishful thinking "I hope there is a God" doesn't make it so. I have that wishful thinking too by the way - I would love for there to be a God. He sure goes out of His way for rational people NOT to believe.

[frenchmon]

RGA....i wont say much and this is my last response to these religious postings. You have mentioned on more than one occasion the age of the universe. The bible says God created it all in 6 days. Modern scientist say according to their testing it is millions and perhaps billions of years old.Who is correct? Man or ancient manuscripts? Let me ask you a question if I may? The bible says God created Adam the first man. How old was he? You see my point? It doesn't seem as if Adam was an infant at creation. With the responsibilities God gave him, it would seem Adam had to be created as an adult....certainly he was not a child with a woman running around without clothing and after the fall told to populate the earth. So my point.....The universe, created in 6 days, could have been created with age....millions or billions of years old at creation...and if that is so, or a possibility, no matter what age it has, or is, surely it did not just magically appear out of some gas that was just floating around in spce by itself and then just decided to explode into what we all see and enjoy today....something out of nothing. No....it had to have all been placed there by an ultimate designer. The gas floating around, the explosion, the universe, the animals and mankind....it all had to come from something, its called cause and effect.....it all points to an intelligent designer......and have you ever wondered where the space that contained the gas and all that came forth out of it, came from? It too had to be put there. I know who put it there....do you? Look at your hands....your feet....think about your heart inside your chest and how it works....how the sun comes up and warms the earth, or the rain and how it washes the earth, or the tree that grows oranges that taste so sweet. You think that all happened by chance? I dont see how it could have....its takes more faith to believe in chance than it does in a n Intelligent Designer. ..and the proof is right there before you in your science, but you refuse to see it. Well I wont. I am not saying you have to believe in the God of the bible, but to say its all just chance is putting your head in the sand my friend.

No need to respond....I am truly done. I will see you when you write some of those wonderful postings about audio...they stimulate my thinking, unlike your postings on faith, science and the bible.

[Hyfi]

You know, there have been great points on both sides of this discussion here and it didn't really get that ugly. From the believer's point of view, faith only counts when it comes to religion, anything else that one knows can be proven is tested. Faith in religion cannot be tested and proven in any way.

Just a breif response to a few points in Frenchmon's last post.

It was ALL written in correspondences.
6 days did not mean 6 24 hour cycles as we now call a day. Would I believe Man or Ancient Manuscripts? Knowing that most of what was written back then was 3rd hand babblings and again can never be proven to be true, I would trust what science has discovered about the overall universe right now but still leave open the idea that the energy started somewhere but not how most religions want me to think. God did not just create the earth as a 6 billion year old baby while the rest of the universe expanded from a central location 6 billion years ago.
Adam was not an individual but a representation of the Human race. Since they didn't care much for womens rights, and many fanatics still don't, they mentioned Eve as an afterthought to represent the female of the Human race. It was never about 2 distinct individuals that Focked like rabbits to create the start of the billions now here on earth.

Here is a good question. Why do the majority of Christians label Swedenborg as a nut job because he claimed to speak to angels, but they believe that God opened the heavens and talked ONLY to Moses alone at the top of a mountain and spit out the 10 commandments. What would be the difference if you claim it's all about faith?

Or is it Selective Faith?

[frenchmon]

You know, there have been great points on both sides of this discussion here and it didn't really get that ugly. From the believer's point of view, faith only counts when it comes to religion, anything else that one knows can be proven is tested. Faith in religion cannot be tested and proven in any way.

Just a breif response to a few points in Frenchmon's last post.

It was ALL written in correspondences.
6 days did not mean 6 24 hour cycles as we now call a day. Would I believe Man or Ancient Manuscripts? Knowing that most of what was written back then was 3rd hand babblings and again can never be proven to be true, I would trust what science has discovered about the overall universe right now but still leave open the idea that the energy started somewhere but not how most religions want me to think. God did not just create the earth as a 6 billion year old baby while the rest of the universe expanded from a central location 6 billion years ago.
Adam was not an individual but a representation of the Human race. Since they didn't care much for womens rights, and many fanatics still don't, they mentioned Eve as an afterthought to represent the female of the Human race. It was never about 2 distinct individuals that Focked like rabbits to create the start of the billions now here on earth.

Here is a good question. Why do the majority of Christians label Swedenborg as a nut job because he claimed to speak to angels, but they believe that God opened the heavens and talked ONLY to Moses alone at the top of a mountain and spit out the 10 commandments. What would be the difference if you claim it's all about faith?

Or is it Selective Faith?

Should I respond to this Hyfi? Or just leave it as is?

[Hyfi]

Should I respond to this Hyfi? Or just leave it as is?

You said you were done. We can leave it at that or we can continue to have a nice theological conversation where nobodies feelings get hurt and we all agree to disagree politely.

If you would like to get a different perspective and logical interpretation of the first several books of the bible, that can then be applied elsewhere when similar passages (correspondences) are used, please give some of this a read. It changed my way of reading the bible and my understanding of what they were trying to say within it.

After reading all of this, which I did but fell asleep 2700 times, watch What Dreams May Come and you will see and get all the references they used from some of this text along with his book titled Heaven and Hell.

Arcana Coelestia Index

[Feanor]

RGA....i wont say much and this is my last response to these religious postings. You have mentioned on more than one occasion the age of the universe. The bible says God created it all in 6 days. Modern scientist say according to their testing it is millions and perhaps billions of years old.Who is correct? Man or ancient manuscripts? Let me ask you a question if I may? The bible says God created Adam the first man. How old was he? You see my point? It doesn't seem as if Adam was an infant at creation. With the responsibilities God gave him, it would seem Adam had to be created as an adult....certainly he was not a child with a woman running around without clothing and after the fall told to populate the earth. So my point.....The universe, created in 6 days, could have been created with age....millions or billions of years old at creation...and if that is so, or a possibility, no matter what age it has, or is, surely it did not just magically appear out of some gas that was just floating around in spce by itself and then just decided to explode into what we all see and enjoy today....something out of nothing. No....it had to have all been placed there by an ultimate designer. The gas floating around, the explosion, the universe, the animals and mankind....it all had to come from something, its called cause and effect.....it all points to an intelligent designer......and have you ever wondered where the space that contained the gas and all that came forth out of it, came from? It too had to be put there. I know who put it there....do you? Look at your hands....your feet....think about your heart inside your chest and how it works....how the sun comes up and warms the earth, or the rain and how it washes the earth, or the tree that grows oranges that taste so sweet. You think that all happened by chance? I dont see how it could have....its takes more faith to believe in chance than it does in a n Intelligent Designer. ..and the proof is right there before you in your science, but you refuse to see it. Well I wont. I am not saying you have to believe in the God of the bible, but to say its all just chance is putting your head in the sand my friend.

No need to respond....I am truly done. I will see you when you write some of those wonderful postings about audio...they stimulate my thinking, unlike your postings on faith, science and the bible.

The wonders of the human body, etc., came about isn't resolved by insisting that God or some other "intelligent designer" created them. And that's because of the old, reductive logic: who created the God or the intelligent designer? One cannot respond the God or the designer always existed, because if she or he always existed, then why not the universe itself and its laws?

There is no issue of higher life forms coming about "by chance". It wasn't by chance: evolution is a process that follows its own logical rules, and though chance plays a part, it's only a part of the process

[JohnMichael]

I find it interesting that humans as they evolve created new gods as they better understood their world. Humans did not understand thunder so let us have a god of thunder. I am sure Egyptians, Romans and Greeks would have felt as strongly about their gods. In mythology a god would impregnate a mortal woman to create a demi-god. Does that sound familiar. As we continue to learn and discover many are leaving churches.

[frenchmon]

Hyfi.....I just cant stop rubber necking! im done....I will check out the link, but im done for real this time....no more rubber necking

[Hyfi]

Hyfi.....I just cant stop rubber necking! im done....I will check out the link, but im done for real this time....no more rubber necking

Talk to me off line after reading some of it.

[RGA]

Virtually all other "real" audio forums have limits on what topics can be discussed and, if you've ever noticed, they generally have a healthy post count and new members come and go on a regular basis, not to mention no lack of advertisers. IOW, they run a class act and still manage to thrive and grow.

I remember in "the old days" when AR actually had a presence in the NY Hi-Fi shows. But, that's when this was a real site, not a sham that depends on potty talk and a refuge for a few malcontents who enjoy stroking each others egos.

I guess the management here is desperate to keep what they have and allow this trash-talk in order to not chase away the few people that still frequent here.

Wallow happily, my friends. When you wallow, think AR.

I've been posting on AR since 1998. And this site ell off the map when they shut down free speech - at it's height this forum was a barrage of cable debates and DBT discussions. When they stopped allowing that discussion every poster in the DBT camp with the exception of PatD left. And PatD barely posts here.

This forum has started to regain that as I think they allow DBT discussions somewhat - unlike AA where it has to be put in a special forum.

This is an Off Topic forum and now in the Steel Cage. Audio Asylum has similar forums - Water Cooler, Cable debates, religious and political discussions which are far far more heated than the tame stuff here.

And like they say you can always vote with your feet - you don't like something don't buy it, don't like a forum don't visit it.

[RGA]

Frenchmon

Every question you just asked me is FULLY answered in Richard Dawkins "God Delusion"

Yes a God day could be a billion years but follow the basic logic.

A Religious person: How could the universe begin from nothing?

B - Scientist: That assumes it came from nothing and there is nothing in evidence to make that assumption. If it did come from nothing the odds of it coming from nothing are very low indeed.

A: So there must have been a creator

B: The odds of a Universe coming from nothing is very low - the odds of a "Creator" powerful enough to create everything who is omnipotent and omniscient coming from nothing is orders of magnitude LESS likely. After all if you say the Universe could not just pop into existence then why could a creator of said universe just pop into existence from nothing?

A: look how beautiful everything is it must have been designed.

B: if a designer were "Perfect" then everything He creates would also be perfect. Perfection can't create imperfection because that would mean God is imperfect. Everything on earth is imperfect. Evolution is a better theory as there is evidence that creatures have improved over time to adapt to their environments and needs. The human eye is not very good - but it's good enough for the purpose of the hhuman animal to survive - it would not however be very good for an Owl which is why an Owl has a completely different kind of eye.

The human eye is an example of BAD Design which means that if there was a God he was an ATROCIOUS engineer. No human if he had absolute power would design such a useless device.

Intelligent Design (2): The Human Eye - YouTube

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Sir T

I find your form of intellectual dishonesty head scratching. You present intellectual ideas you have some understanding of the notion of test the beliefs of others. When someone says vinyl is better than CD you, more than most, took what they said and explored the technology and the lack of evidence and said technically CD should be superior to vinyl. You even went one further than that and actually auditioned the master tape, CD, and a vinyl pressing.

Then you chuck out your brain out the window researching the utter idiocy and illogic of "faith." Something which one bases their entire life and world view on is slightly more important than whether CD is better that vinyl.

And that's the problem with the word "faith"

There would be no problems if the word faith meant faith - but Christians and other religious followers don't see a difference between "Faith and Fact" To them faith is a fact. There is 100% a GOD who listens to them, there is 100% some sort of hell, there is 100% a heaven that only believers get to go to.

When one believes so strongly and adamantly that this "faith" is a fact then you get the likes of Westboro.

Of course 90% of Christians are not that adamant or extreme but it certainly is the case that most Christians are anti-gay, vote republican, and believe that RGA is going to hell for being Atheist. I am therefore "other" and "worse" than they merely because I don't believe. Now in everyday normal 2012 life this doesn't matter but it doesn't take much for the winds to change and I find myself in a concentration camp. And history is littered with the "other" being segregated for such things. The 90% follow the herd and certainly are not at the forefront of stopping gay bashing, or intelligent design in schools, or stem cell research etc. That passivity is a form of support.

Hold your "Sky God" (one God) to the standards of basic logic, sciences and reason. The wishful thinking "I hope there is a God" doesn't make it so. I have that wishful thinking too by the way - I would love for there to be a God. He sure goes out of His way for rational people NOT to believe.

RG=Regurgitated
A=out of the A$$

This is what I think of this illogical twisted pile of BS.

You have firmly established you don't believe in God. Walk away now as you are not going to convince me or anyone to give up their faith. A CD and vinyl disc can be tested against a master. You cannot test faith - either you have it, or you don't.

I made my comment to Frenchmon because I cannot see any benefit in explaining Biblical faith to a agnostic or an atheist. It is a complete waste of time.

[RGA]

Twisted - explain the logical faults - calling it BS is your usual history whenever something doesn't fit your belief you resort to name calling and belittling. This tells me you have no solid footing and you clearly have none here.

You don't want to use your science training (engineers of course are merely the Oompa Loompa's of science so I kind of cut them slack) but to say you can't test it is intellectual dishonesty. No you can't prove/disprove God but the onus of proof is on the person making the claim - and unless you turn your brain off you KNOW THIS IS TRUE - calling it BS makes you look like a tool.

And you also KNOW but ignore that you most certainly can test "the Sky God" premise with first year basic logic courses which you must have taken to have an engineering degree - unless universities in the U.S. are so bankrupt they too have succumb to the religious right and don't make it mandatory. That basic logic and main point of my previous post which Frenchmon ignored, to blather on about his disagreement over Bible interpretation, didn't surprise me. He didn't want to go anywhere near the God is omnipotent or omniscient arguments and neither do you.

Regurgitated - I love that. 2+2=4 is a regurgitated question and answer found in numerous Grade 1 classrooms. Yes it is a regurgitated teaching - it also happens to be FACT.

Rather than address the issues of basic logic/paradox you resort to name calling - your faith is so fragile that you can actually look into it and say "gee this doesn't make the least bit of sense" maybe I should consider the possibility that at some point I was brainwashed. Most 5 year olds believe in Santa and then eventually have a chuckle that everyone fooled you - teachers, parents, siblings, and friends. You had no reason to distrust them so most people TRULY believe in him and even write letters and put out cookies. You get up and the cookies and milk are half eaten - every fiber in your being believes fully in this tale because everyone in your life reinforces it over and over and over. People you trust immensely - so of course you believe. Then one day a friend at school perhaps will let you in on the joke. "there's no Santa" - the child STILL believes until they confront their parents or teacher. Some kids cry.

Well I'm you're little school friend telling you that you've been had but unfortunately no one told the priest or your parents.

There are several avenues to test whether there is an "omnipotent and omniscient God " and those tests "knock down" the possibility and from several sciences/disciplines not just Biology. Dawkins makes several correct cases that destroy the notion of the creation of man - and it's irrefutable. And if the ship is still barely afloat Physics and Geology put a few more torpedoes into the ship - and if it still hanging on - Philosophy comes in with an A-bomb air strike to finish it off.

Dawkins is an easy read - pretty much spells it out as easy as it can get - You should be an Atheist by the time you get to chapter 4. Not an Agnostic an Atheist - Agnostics just want to cover their ass. Although plenty of Christians on boards have told me that "I should believe because what have I got to lose" or "if you don't believe what's to stop you from doing evil things like rape and murder." Really - the only thing stopping them from killing and raping is believing in God. In that case please believe away - if that's the kind of person you are at your core then please believe in God and don't kill people. And of course just "saying" you believe in God to cover your butt - pretty sure if there was a God he'd know you were just covering your butt. Don't think you can fake God out. And he might be three times more angry if you try than say "gee God I was wrong I didn't believe in you - why did you make me an Atheist?

This is something like a 3 minute read and should raise enough alarm bells to make objective minds seriously doubt any of the Sky God teachings.

God the all-powerful: The Paradox of Omnipotence

[Hyfi]

Here are a few questions that have always baffled me.
Were Adam and Eve the very first humans on the planet?
Who nurtured them from childbirth? (placed on the earth at just the right age to conceive?)

If Adam and Eve were the first by any stretch, then ALL of their children had incestuous relationships to pro-create, and then all of their children and so on up to the present day. If that were all supposed to be read literally, and we blindly agree to ignore the fact that we are all inbreeds due to the first families incestuous behavior, then why do we not all have the same DNA?

Science has already proved that there were several waves of humans that did not all share the same DNA. Is science wrong?

So if that story, logically and intellectually just cannot be true as interpreted literally, than how can any other part be?

So the believers say "you believe or you don't, all or nothing" and I ask, if we have to question this part from the very beginning of the story, how can we not question all of it?

So anyone, please enlighten me as to how we are all direct descendants of Adam and Eve, if they were not just representations of the whole of Man and Woman, the Human Race, but don't have matching DNA and all of the horrific abnormalities that we should have after 2000 years of inbreeding and incestuous relationships?

[Feanor]

Sir T has nailed it, RGA. You simply aren't going to dissuade people from religious believe by logical argument -- he's also correct that it's pointless to explain Biblical faith to non-believers like you and me: we're past that.

I had a religious upbringing; but I call doubts from the early age when my mother, (a religious person all her life), admitted the Santa Claus didn't actually continued to insist that God does.

I read The God Delusion only about 3-4 years ago, but all of Dawkins' arguments had occurred to me decades earlier, (though Dawkins is more articulate than I could be). He was preaching to the converted, (to use a religious analogy )

BTW, I agree with Dawkins on the agnostic vs. atheist distinction. This is like ...

I ought to call myself an agnostic; but, for all practical purposes, I am an atheist. I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla. To take another illustration: nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice. I think the Christian God just as unlikely.

I'm tending to call myself a "non-believer" these days since it easier than getting into arguments about whether Atheism is, itself, a faith.

Look up "Russell's Cosmic Teapot" ... Let me Google that for you.

[markw]

I've been posting on AR since 1998. And this site ell off the map when they shut down free speech - at it's height this forum was a barrage of cable debates and DBT discussions. When they stopped allowing that discussion every poster in the DBT camp with the exception of PatD left. And PatD barely posts here.

This forum has started to regain that as I think they allow DBT discussions somewhat - unlike AA where it has to be put in a special forum.

This is an Off Topic forum and now in the Steel Cage. Audio Asylum has similar forums - Water Cooler, Cable debates, religious and political discussions which are far far more heated than the tame stuff here.

And like they say you can always vote with your feet - you don't like something don't buy it, don't like a forum don't visit it.

This forum never did fully rebound and, it did hang on for a few years before rigor mortis set in.

Look at the main page. Hoe many new posts? How many not from the usual handful of regulars?

No, the only action here is in this wretched forum where bashing people with any beliefs is sport for a few nihilistic regulars who apparently have nothing else to look forward to. ..including one hypocrite who is proud of his family's starting a cult of their own.