Speakers for Classical Music for Rotel RB 1070 (budget: upto 2k$)

[bobsticks]

I think they made up. When's the next show?

Yeah, not so much....

[RGA]

Doesnt suprise me at all that your single. I have a girlfriend since over a year, but the way you are it is really no suprise that your single. No girl wants a poor schoolboy who only talks about audio in a forum anyways.

I find it rather disturbing that you qualify people's worth by monetary means and whether they "currently" are in a relationship. BTW I finished university several years ago. I am a fully qualified teacher (and teaching) as well as an audio reviewer.

Ooops!! I forgot who I was talking to. And I so promised myself not to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

[Feanor]

...
Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata is Musically better reproduced on the AN E than the Magnepan 20.1. Box or no box - one piano sounds more like a piano than a ribbon hiss. But like I said - 99% of people can't audition one - so listen to the Maggie and if it works great. I still like the 1.6 better than 95% of the competition and unfortunately the one's I prefer you are unable to confirm in your area - so we all base our decisions on what is available to us.
...

This moring I listened to a couple of versions of the 'Moonlight' sonata, (No. 14, Op. 27), by Alfred Brendel and Mikhail Pletnev. I was reminded (yet again) that that the piano is a percussion instrument. I wasn't at all dissatisfied with the sound from my system (including the MG 1.6). However a person like yourself who values PRaT above all might prefer a speaker that delivers more of the "snap" and "punch" than Magneplanar, and I don't doubt that includes AN.

But that underscores the importance of the type of music you listen to and personal preference. I listen to chamber music most of all, but also to large-scale choral and orchestral works; I value transparency, imaging, and soundstage above PRaT. Nothing puts that string quartet in the room with you like Magneplanar.

[audio amateur]

I find it rather disturbing that you qualify people's worth by monetary means and whether they "currently" are in a relationship. BTW I finished university several years ago. I am a fully qualified teacher (and teaching) as well as an audio reviewer.

Ooops!! I forgot who I was talking to. And I so promised myself not to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

haha I was thinking of that too..
Don't take it too personally either, Florian surely was in that situation not so long ago
However, the situation definitely applies to me

[sallysue]

A lot of good suggestions here. Can I put in a vote for Focal?

Chorus 816VB = JM Lab

The voicing on some of the towers is very nice. The looks may or may not be to your liking but they are nice speakers and in your price range.

[RGA]

However a person like yourself who values PRaT above all might prefer a speaker that delivers more of the "snap" and "punch" than Magneplanar, and I don't doubt that includes AN.

But that underscores the importance of the type of music you listen to and personal preference. I listen to chamber music most of all, but also to large-scale choral and orchestral works; I value transparency, imaging, and soundstage above PRaT. Nothing puts that string quartet in the room with you like Magneplanar.

First I don't want to get lumped into "believing" one silly audiophile term over another. Music is not about soundstage nor is it about imaging, or for that matter transparency or PRaT. These are terms people like and reuse and they've become hoared words because they get thrown around for EVERY single piece of audio equipment on the market today.

As a reviewer I understand why people like the words and writing it is often hard not to use them. The careful reader however may be able to pick up on what good audio writers are actually talking about.

Take Paul Messenger's reviewer of the AN E - this is a speaker that a panel of listeners chose in blind auditions as best in its class several years ago and they ended up buying the speaker as a reference for their magazine. But WITHIN the same review Paul called the speaker transparent, coloured, true to the recording, but not the best soundstaging and yet differentiated the staging better??? You as a reader could pull anything you wanted from the review - and Paul maybe the best reviewer at that magazine.

It's not his fault but many speakers throw a BIG soundstage whether the recording has a big soundstage or not. The AN E will have a singer left center on a Diana Krall disc and way over to the right on say a Madonna or Kathleen Battle album. The point is most speakers will place the same stamp across all three artists and it may be "nice" and "neat" to have a huge stage but the one that differentiates the best is the speaker doing its job the best. I know of only one dealer who sells Magnepan and Audio Note in the same store - everyone working there prefers the AN E for classical music - it was "designed" for classical music. The designer (L.L. Beranek) himself is a world renowned Opera House designer for heaven sake. It gives NOTHING to any Magnepan or any Panel I have heard so far(this is I STRESS - my OPINION). I'm not telling anyone what to like and especially what to buy. I say go audition one preferably in the same room and I'll let them decide.

My opponents always seem to make personal attacks and get defensive over panels - what may I ask are you all afraid of? Surely if you had nothing to worry about with your belief system then letting people audition is not a worry. Something deep down is bothering your sensibilities or "faith" in panels to be ripping stuff you have not heard.

The reality is discussing a product that no one here as actually bothered to listen to is trying to convince someone that a Blackberry is a wonderful tasting fruit with people who have no blackberries in their area and already have decided that oranges can't be beat.

And what is even worse is that even if you did listen to one and you actually really wanted to buy one you'd be on a 6 month to 2 year wait list(even the dealer's can't get any). They can't keep up with the demand as it is so it's probably better off to go with Magnepan - they're always in stock and there are piles and piles that come up on audio selling sites used at a bargain.

Again I'm not trying to convince people to "buy" anything. I simply have heard both and in my experience and opinion I believe the AN E/LX HE to quite dramatically outperform the Magnepan 20.1 for half the price. It's an opinion people - this is not the end of the world, the sky is not falling just because a bunch of reviewers and salesman prefer a boxed speaker over panels - just as it won't crumble because some people prefer those same panels to those same boxed speakers.

The thread was about good performers of classical at low volume on the cheap - my suggestion is the AX Two or used AN K or AN J or a new Kit E.

[theaudiohobby]

Take Paul Messenger's reviewer of the AN E - this is a speaker that a panel of listeners chose in blind auditions as best in its class several years ago and they ended up buying the speaker as a reference for their magazine.

err.....seems the passage of time has blurred your recollection of facts, HiFiChoice occasionally uses review panels, however the AN E did not go thru this process.

IMO, most audio note speaker models are poor choices for orchestral recordings, both the AN K and AN-J suffer typical small speaker limitations i.e. dynamically constipated in the bass. AN J is too lean for my taste. The AN E is basically an overpriced speaker, so much so that I know of no dealer than carries it in the UK, AN's home country.

Man..there is an awful lot of name dropping going on here, I thought Peter Snell designed the AN E who is L.L. Beranek? renowned where? in his back garden

[theaudiohobby]

who is L.L. Beranek? renowned where? in his back garden

Goofed on that one

[RGA]

err.....seems the passage of time has blurred your recollection of facts, HiFiChoice occasionally uses review panels, however the AN E did not go thru this process.

IMO, most audio note speaker models are poor choices for orchestral recordings, both the AN K and AN-J suffer typical small speaker limitations i.e. dynamically constipated in the bass. AN J is too lean for my taste. The AN E is basically an overpriced speaker, so much so that I know of no dealer than carries it in the UK, AN's home country.

Man..there is an awful lot of name dropping going on here, I thought Peter Snell designed the AN E who is L.L. Beranek? renowned where? in his back garden

Yes but you already lied about OWNING the AN K. And it is obvious you've never heard them because only the complete tone deaf could draw a conclusion that the AN J or E were dynamically constipated when what - your speaker of choice is B&W (in your head to head assessment of the AN K J AND E against &W standmounts - what were your assessments?

What gear, where, and when did you audtion the AN E directly against the B&W (and which model where and when).

Even the guys designing the B&W's agree. And you were allowed to meet them in person to confirm that it wasn't BS. But you decided you could not handle that B&W designers thoughts that the AN's were better. You could not handle that B&W asked Audio Note for "help" in making their speakers better.

Hi-Fi Choice has had at least three reviews of AN E speakers and 1 AN J and 1 AN K - 2 AN E and the AN J were blind auditions (not sure of the AN K) and the latest AN E was subjective sighted. Why do another blind audition when it's already been done?

AN has several dealers in the UK and they will come to your house and set it up for you which is better since most of the dealers in England are lousy for showing equiment properly. The advantage in Canada and the US is space so it's not all cramped so you can actually listen to one stereo in one room not speakers with 9 other pairs in the same cramped room. You were given the free in home audition but because of your pre listening biases - you chose not to.

There are dealers in West Sussex, Buckinghamshire, Cornwall, and others not yet listed on their website (they are slow at that).

Arguably the two highest end dealers in the entire United States has them - Audio Federation - who could carry anything on the planet chose Audio Note and also became their distributor. No they are not hoared out to any putz who opens a shop merely to sell boxes. AN made that mistake and pulled out of such places.

And no Peter Snell did not design the speaker cabinets - and if you knew anything about audio engineering like you claim to - you would know who Leo Beranek is since he sighted by virtually every single textbook on acoustics and loudspeaker design for the last 70 years.

To Others - let's just put it to bed - if you have not heard it - go listen and if you can't ignore AN because if you can't audition then all of it is blabber and meaningless anyway - never buy any audio piece without a good audition.

All those on the West coast - by all means don't believe me - go to Soundhounds on Pandora avenue in Victoria - BC - it is a great holiday destination often sighted as one of the three best vacation spots in the world - so don't just come for the audio audtion - you can go fishing whale watching camping hiking - get a taste of England without the pollution or congestion or pick pockets and it's a great jump off point to Vancouver, Tofino, and Seattle. You can ski, waterski, and enjoy the mountains and lakes that are some of the best in the world.

Then get a supreme audition - bring your hardest hitting music full scale classical music (wagner if you absolutely must) - Saint Saens organ pieces, Beethoven's 9th - spend the day - Tell them RGA (Richard) sent you and tell them I recommended their great cappucino. Have them let you audtion the B&W D800 - their prize speaker with the Diamond Tweeters, Quad 2905 - Quad's best panel speaker, Magnepan 20.1, Nice Sonus Faber Cremona's, top of the line Sim Audio, Bryston's new CD player, top of the line Linn gear, and yes the AN E/LX HE with those 8-15 watt tube amps. Go across the street and listen to some Grant Fidelity if the AN gear is too expensive.

Don't let the people here, including me, sway you. And don't let the sales guys sway you either - just because all the guys who owned panels or B&W sold them and all of them bought AN's is according to the Audio Hobby because they like constipated dynamics and distortion. By all means test his theory. I will be very happy to read your your results. You will be very pleased to hear some of the bigger hitters together and get a good experience listening to some premier panel loudspeakers against what presuably TAH believes is the best speaker company in B&W, and hey Sonus Faber is no slouch either. Donuts and coffee on me if your in Nanaimo (1.5 hours up island from Victoria).

Glad to talk audio or anything else.

Anyway, this is a long post - I am currently on vacation in Koh Samui, Thailand so my replies will be spotty.

[theaudiohobby]

Yes but you already lied about OWNING the AN K

The joke is now wearing thin I suggest you stop it

And it is obvious you've never heard them because only the complete tone deaf could draw a conclusion that the AN J or E were dynamically constipated when what - your speaker of choice is B&W (in your head to head assessment of the AN K J AND E against &W standmounts - what were your assessments?

uo...oh, so any opinion is cool as it long as it does not portray your beloved Audio Notes in poor light.

And no Peter Snell did not design the speaker cabinets

Snell Acoustics hired Kevin Voecks after Peter Snell's untimely death to design amongst other things speaker cabinets (turnkey designer) , why?

and if you knew anything about audio engineering like you claim to - you would know who Leo Beranek is since he sighted by virtually every single textbook on acoustics and loudspeaker design for the last 70 years.

urrrh....appeal to authority, anyone?

There are dealers in West Sussex, Buckinghamshire, Cornwall, and others not yet listed on their website (they are slow at that).

I suggest you re-read my comments, and by the way your comments wrt UK dealers is incorrect and unprofessional.

To quote you "this is I STRESS - my OPINION", So why are you all cut up and calling me a liar because I expressed my opinion? I listen to much more classical especially orchestral music than you do so I have an opinion of which speakers work well and which ones don't. And for a variety of reasons Audio Note K and J don't work well IMO. And for what it is, the Audio Note E is way overpriced, Tellingly, the only person I know that likes Audio Note speakers rarely listens to classical music, I wonder why.

For classical music, Kef and Tannoy offer a couple of modestly priced speakers that work better e.g. the kef iq5 is much better balanced speaker. And it would not have you rushing for the exit on those occasions where the classical recording is less than stellar, the iq70 should work even better but I have not listened to them..

[RGA]

You lied about the AN K - you claimed to own it on another forum - in your possession and I asked you for the serial number on the back - you "claimed" you sold it - so you had it one day and not one day later you sold it - and had no receipt of any kind. The model you listed the AN K/B has a certain number of customers - Audio Note knows ALL of them - and you sir were never one of them.

Where did you buy it from whom and when? Your answer "the joke is wearing thin." If you were in my shoes and I gave you that answer - well the truth is obvious.

You lied - you try to weasal your way out of it - it's a nifty trick to the less initiated but you know that any answer you give will have to be a fictitious one because any truthful one can be checked. Anyone here can make a phone call to Soundhounds and get the information of what I bought when I boiught it, how much I paid, and what I auditioned it against (within reason because they have lots of customers) but the hard evidence - the paper trail is there.

The hobby can't not on a single thing he claims to have heard I'll bet - but certainly nothing Audio Note. I mean since he claims there are no dealers, and he doesn't like the sound, then AN gave him no in home audtion - then where oh where sir did you audtion. A friend's house - who is the friend - where did he buy it? At a Las Vegas CES show - provide the press pass number, an air ticket, an e-ticket, a hotel receipt for at least the "time the show was on" - anything even remotely plausible will do.

It's simple question for even a simpleton to get but rather than do that you want to "test" RGA to see if he really means that he will accept other people's views on a non AN speaker.

If you CLAIM to have auditioned the AN E against a B&W - then surely you can back it up by telling everyone where you heard the speakers. I can and always do when people ask me. If you go around slagging something then pony up with the evidence.

I have no problem with opinions by people who don't invent them because they have a very well known axe to grind with Peter or myself.

Snell Acoustics hiring Kevin Voecks eventually ran a high end maker into the ground - Snell went bankrupt and the name has been destroyed. Denon stepped in - so we'll see how it goes. The same thing happened to Wharfedale - they were lucky that Quad's group bought them and people care about quality. Denon - well I'm sure we'll see plenty of Snell home theater in a box.

Criticising a dealer with no space - they're AUDIO dealers - if they have no space they should be criticised.

I wonder why it is assumed because I listen to something OTHER than classical that you and Feaner assume that that means I don't listen to Classical - 20% of my collection is classical and I listen to it probably 40 - 50% of the time.

Peter Qvortrup incidentally has one of the largest and more importantly rarest classical music selections going - most AN owners are classical music collectors. It must be bothersome to you that people who like other forms of music also like them because they are not limited to seeing things in funnel vision - I only like Classical - therefore Classical is the only music that is music - I only like girls with a double D cup so anything less is a man, I only like tea so Coffee is for heathens - I only like CD because it measures better and some textbook told me it is right so it must be. Anothe rwitless opponent that I must suffer. Oh woe is me to be dealing with the mentally inert.

[theaudiohobby]

Mods, where are you? RGA response have gotten out of hand, I cannot seem to find report to mod button. I think it is time call RGA to order.

[Geoffcin]

This reminds me of the old unmoderated days of AR.

RGA please refrain from calling fellow listees liars. Personal attacks are a violation of TOS rules. Another outburst and I will be forced to lock the thread.

[theaudiohobby]

Hi Geoffcin, could you ask RGA to reword his posts accordingly. thanks.

[E-Stat]

You lied about the AN K - you claimed to own it on another forum - in your possession

Why don't you provide a link to that discussion? Perhaps you may have misunderstood his comments.

rw

[RGA]

E-Stat

It's on AA - It's ok Peter Qvortrup is aware of The Audio Hobby and we've been through this before.

Geofcin - Maybe you could clear something up - what is the board policy - it's ok if people tell untruths about their experiences very possibly slandering manufacturers and people's livelyhoods, but it's never ok to call them on it? So are these people allowed to go unmolested on this internet forum?

Geofcin - I understand why you or the board would have a policy like this but there should be a little more thought put into this - namecalling is one thing, asking someone for simple verification is not name calling.

I am actually quite surprised by theaudiohobby because despite the argument here he is someone who purprots that he so much values evidence truth and backing up claims. I am shocked and surprised that such an individual who made these comments would run to the moderators whenever someone asked him to provide minimilist evidence to back up very possibly legally binding slanderous remarks about a manufacturer on an audio forum:

"I have no time to waste, the onus is on Peter Qvotrup to provide some supporting evidence to back up his comments. If he can't, well..." (theaudiohobby May 27, 2004)

"is it wrong to ask for data to back up the claim? This is an objective assertion that can be readily proven with back up data.

So the issue is not whether I liking any speaker per se, it is about providing data to back up an objective rebuttal." (ThaAudioHobby May 28, 2004 AA)

So I find it rather curious that the poster who wrote the above would immediately run to the moderators when I am merely asking the same questions that he asks.

Was I supposed to go to a moderator? No because he has the right to ask for proof of a "claim" and he can then "believe" the person to be telling a falsehood until such time as the evidence is provided.

Geofcin I may be missing something in the logic here and I'll be happy to acknowledge my mistake in my logic on this matter. If I am in error I do oppologise.

Ultimately, if you wish I can accept his ownership of the AN K/B which was $600 new, and was in actual fact a Snell KII with a rebadged AN logo - this model was used in the first prodcution run - an entirely different cabinet, woofer, tweeter manufacturers, wiring, caps and had dacron. Since I've never heard the AN K/B it's possible it sounded the way he says it did. The AN J/L sounds quite strikingly different from the AN J/Spe so I suppose I can give him the benefit of the doubt. But if you ever extend TAH and olive branch he beats you over the head with it which is why I rarely bother anymore.

[Ajani]

Hmmm... this thread has taken an interesting turn.... I thought Flo Vs RGA was going to be the showdown, but clearly it is more RGA vs theaudiohobby (or it would be if one of them hadn't run for the mods)....

RGA - It would be helpful if you could find that quote/link from AA where theaudiohobby claimed to have owned Audio Notes.... it would help establish your claims against him

theaudiohobby - Up to this point, you really haven't denied RGA's claims. You've merely expressed annoyance and then called the mods... If you never claimed to own Audio Notes on the AA forum, then the easiest thing to do is deny it... Leave it to RGA to back up his accusations..

I really don't think we need the mods to block this debate - we just need to tone it down with some facts...

RGA calling someone a liar is 'bad' but only if it's not true (and I don't think anyone can tell from reading this thread whether tah is a liar or if RGA is off his meds).

What RGA seems to be calling for is just something to backup tah's claims that he has experience with Audio Note speakers. Something like this (which really is my opinion and is what happened):

The Magnepan MG12 Speakers are easily the worst $1K+ pair of speakers I've ever heard. I listened to them, with a friend, in early 2007 at Audio Excellence in Richmond Hill Ontario. They were setup in the upstairs listening room and driven by all McIntosh electronics. The speakers were at least 3 feet from the rear wall and a similar distance from the side walls with I'm guessing about 8 feet in between them... and I was about 8 feet from the speakers in the listening chair... I listened to at least 2 of my favorite songs (Billie Jean and Hotel California) and found that the Maggies sounded just plain wrong... they sounded confused and unable to present the music in a satisfying way... The Salesman quickly suggested that I try a pair of Revel Performa M22s on a Musical Fidelity A3.5 amp & CD combo instead (that was at the other end of the same listening room), as he said that I had the 'wrong type of music for the Maggies'... The Revels succeeded in getting my toes tapping and stopped the head scratching I was doing while the Maggies were playing.

I haven't given away any personal info in that story, but I have given enough info that someone could easily do a fact check on whether the dealer exists, sells Maggies, has an upstairs listening room, has/had those combos setup in that room etc.. So just enough info to show that I know what I'm talking about...

So back to the Maggies: they were driven by quality electronics and appeared to be well setup... so I'll take the salesman's word that it was just my choice in music that was the problem... What that tells me is that Maggies are not for me... if they can't sound good with my favorite songs, then I could care less how well they present a single violin or a female vocal...

[theaudiohobby]

You have defamed me RGA. Here are some photos of the Audio Note K/B taken prior to their sale on ebay. One of them with a serial number 529.






What's your next move? I also note that you decided against posting any links to any previous thread.

[Ajani]

You have defamed me RGA. Here are some photos of the Audio Note K/B taken prior to their sale on ebay. One of them with a serial number 529.






What's your next move? I also note that you decided against posting any links to any previous thread.

Good Response....

[RGA]

Ajani - Well it will take me some time to track down the serial number - Audio Note uses 4 digit numbers not 3 digit numbers but 'll give him the benefit of the doubt that this was in fact his loudspeaker and not just a picture from someone else. (The quotes are on Audio Asylum speaker forum - do a search for the audiohobby and Audio Note - there are simply far too many for me to look through again - so any interested party who completely has no life can go back and dig.

I still wonder how if he says there are no dealers in the UK (factually incorrect) that he could have heard the AN J and AN E directly against other speakers? Your example is a good one - where you listened - evidence the dealer carries the items etc. This was not a difficult request but the simple always seems difficult for TAH. Get to the point.

But here I'll end it - I'll "presume" that TAH has listened to every audio product known to man and therefore all Audio Note products in depth correctly set-up and directly against all his favorites. There you go tah - the ultimate auditioner of gear - that is what you want - for your opinion to carry some sort of weight.

Unfortunately for you I suppose, if you thought about it - all advertising is good advertising including these exchanges on internet forums - all you end up doing is helping Audio Note sell more audio products by generating further curiosity about them. And I like them a lot and wanted just that - help the little guy get more attention in a sea of heavey weights - for people to go out and give them an audition - so I thank you for spreading the word. Great reviews by all the print and online publications - and naysayers ranting on internet forums - helps create a buzz.

Enjoy your beloved Elac - ir is it now a Genelec - opps I forgot you went to Quad - wait wait you loved those but now you hate them - so what flavour is it this month B&W - well I dunno that was three weeks ago surely you have moved on. What is the new TAH best loudspeaker you have currently? No you don't have to answer. Whatever you currently own is always the state of the audio art until the next speaker.

Would you hold off for a while though because AN can't keep up with orders and if the backlog increases it will take me longer to get my stuff from them.

So yes - Audio Note is bad - don't go listen - please for heaven sake just buy whatever TAH tells you to buy. You'll be happier for it - you'll certainly go through more Ebay and AGON sales than you ever dreamed of - and really theaudiohobby says it all - it's a hobby - buy sell buy sell buy sell. That is the point of a home audio system!

[audio amateur]

RGA, I reckon you should ask for free stuff from AN. I don't believe there's another man that advertises like this for them!

[Feanor]

RGA, I reckon you should ask for free stuff from AN. I don't believe there's another man that advertises like this for them!

What then would his credibility be?

[blackraven]

Those speakers certainly look like AN speakers from the rear-

http://dood.ca/2007/04/11/review-audio-note-an-k-spe/

[theaudiohobby]

Ajani - Well it will take me some time to track down the serial number - Audio Note uses 4 digit numbers not 3 digit numbers but 'll give him the benefit of the doubt that this was in fact his loudspeaker and not just a picture from someone else. (The quotes are on Audio Asylum speaker forum

zoom in RGA, it's 529, you've have already overplayed your hand.

[Ajani]

RGA, I reckon you should ask for free stuff from AN. I don't believe there's another man that advertises like this for them!

LOL... that's the prob with being too in love with a brand.... it hurts your credibility in discussions... What I've learned in Audio so far is that it really doesn't matter what I love, when I make recommendations... I love Monitor Audio and really don't like Magnepan, but if someone asked me to make a recommendation for approx $1K speakers, I'd recommend both... simply because I know how many people love the MG12 (even though I was not impressed by it)... same thing goes for brands I like, such as Musical Fidelity, Marantz, Rotel, Mission and B&W... and brands that haven't floated my boat, like Dynaudio, Totem, NAD and Arcam...

I've seen multiple reviews from major audio mags, across the globe, claiming that the Monitor Audio RS6 is the BEST $1K speaker the reviewer has ever heard, and despite the fact that I agree with them, it doesn't mean that I would only recommend the the RS6 in that price bracket... We all have different tastes in music and equipment... so there is no one brand that will appeal to everyone...