Speakers for Classical Music for Rotel RB 1070 (budget: upto 2k$)

[Ajani]

Ditto...

[RGA]

That's say its all... it would seem Ajani has given you some steam to start erecting new strawmen. In the same thread you said

"The Red Trace in your graph of Harbeth shows similar measured response in certain areas indicating room induced issues - that said it is a fair assessment in commentary by John Atkinson -

In the end I can't argue with the measurements since they are what they are. I hear it like Art hears it and numerous others hear it ."

But I guess that the passage of time continues to cloud your recollection of previous events, or is it just case of another day, another strawman. While at it, I might as well repeat my comments from the previous thread, the Audio Note E is dynamically challenged in the bass, I do not have drive to a Ford Escort to know that it not as fast as a B&W M3.

I am not tryin to fight you here theaudiohobby - I merely asked if you could see why some people, well me, would "think" you had auditioned the AN E. I am not blaming you or trying to start an argument or trying to get you to like something you don't like.

You are perfectly free to base your opinion on the measurments, or whatever you like. I am not trying to convert you or continue an argument. You are entitled to your opinion and your conclusions based on whatever tools and methodologies you see fit and you are welcome to share those on a public forum - certainly don't need anyone's permission. I

I was genuinely of the belief that you had auditioned the speaker based on your comments - I am sorry for being "wrong" in the way I read those quotes but people do make mistakes. If you think there was nothing misleading in what you wrote - that is also fine with me. I know for next time to simply ask you directly if you heard them. Again, I misunderstood you.

I am not clear on two points - the measured response - maybe you can explain how the speaker is poor in the bass and dynamics department (in room). I can see the frequency response plot in Stereophile measured mid room 1 meter (anechoic) but I am not sure exactly what you consider to be deep enough bass or volume capability to reproduce piano. I believe the AN J and E are capable of the lowest registers of the Piano - neither for pedal organ but generally those are reserved for large floorstanders or subwoofers.

And in your experience, are you familiar with the B&W M805 which is used in many recording studios - If you could compare the bass and dynamics of the M805 (or N805) versus the AN J or AN E which in your estimation has more bass and more dynamics and if the N805 or M805 why or why not?.

I am a little surprised because several years ago the AN J was part of a standmount shootout in Hi-Fi CHoice. The people there said that because of the J's "prodigous bass" it was unfair to pit it against competing standmounts. So they took the speaker out of the test and put it in with competing floorstanders and the assessment there was "still" that it had "prodigious bass" and the Hi-fi Choice room didn't have any corners so it was a free standing session - thus no corner reinforcement gain or senstivity gain - not everyone liked the sound (free standing to my ear makes the box more noticeable to me as well) but many of them found it to be the best of the lot and all noted bass and dynamics as a strength.

Again not going to try and convince you and not trying to start and argument, but it genuinely creates a curiosity in me that you would find it so different than what I hear - again not saying you're wrong at all or that I am right but perhaps you could give me some sort of clue to what it was you compared the AN J to. Of course it's not going to compare in the bass and dynamics to the likes of the Westminster. Perhaps we are merely at odds because I think you're comparing it to a 303 while in fact you're comparing it to the Model Nautilus. We may in fact be disareeing over not very much if anything merely due to a miscommunication.

[theaudiohobby]

Well, to the best of my knowledge M805 and it later iterations are not used in any recording studio as they offer no advantage over its more rugged professional cousins. What's the point of a small passive speaker in expensive drag clothing in a recording studio?

And to your question, I would expect an AN E(though I have not heard it) to have more bass and dynamics than an M805 (or later variants) as its much bigger and has much larger cone area. The measurementd confirm that, same the J to a lesser extent. The N805 (and its variants) is a small speaker with a small woofer and relatively high sensitivity @88dB and measurements show a falling response from 120Hz downwards and when I listened to an older N805 iteration, it was no bass excavator to my ears.

Do I think that the AN E and AN J are capable of producing the lowest registers of a Piano? Well, I believe the AN E would do it in the right room (the upper bass it still likely to sound tad lean though). I am not too sure the AN J can manage it as it would have a much higher -6dB point.

[RGA]

Fair enough - thanks for the response.

May I ask a question? What is that you are looking for in Audio Reproduction. Perhaps you ar like me when it comes to religion - I am a big Richard Dawkins fan and it is frustrating for me in a sense because on Audio I am almost in the "other camp." If you have read Dawkins you know why I might be "stuck" in a kind of dichotomy. In a very real way Audio Note is the audio's world of religious mumbo jumbo. Yet I put down the measurements and just listen when it comes to audio.

I recently read Stereophiles Wes Phillips' take on the Audio Note room at CES: (I am not posting the following trying to convince you - I'll explain below)

"JA caught up with me at the Blue Light Audio room and suggested we saunter down to hear the 25Wpc Audio Note Ongaku integrated amplifier ($95,000) featured in his photograph above. Yes that's a jaw-dropping price, even after four days of CES. The Ongaku has five line level inputs. It employs two NOS VT4-C (211) tubes, an original NOS Telefunken 6463, and two NOS 5R4WGB rectifiers. Audio Note builds it own silver-wired driver transformer on a double AN-Perma nickel C-core. AN tantalum resistors, Black Gate electrolytics, and another silver wired transformer (output this time) complete the innards.

The system's source was the Audio Note CDT-Three transport ($9550) and DAC 4.1x Balanced DAC ($15,500). The speakers were Audio Note's AN-E SEC loudspeakers ($51,000/pair), which have a claimed sensitivity of 95dB. Cables were Audio Note Pallas digital cable ($4275), Sooto interconnect ($7050/m), and SogoN96 speaker cables ($9635). The power cable was the only non-Audio Note product: a Nordost Odin power cable.

I have to confess the system's price tag worried me—those are numbers that make even a high-end reviewer's head spin. And no, I didn't automatically assume I would like it because it was expensive. Those prices are scary. Here's the thnig, though: They system didn't sound expensive, it sounded right. No single element predominated, unless you count the complete sense of ease and the fabulous dynamic range.

I listened to one of Todd Garfinkle's M•A recordings, Sheila Jordon and Harve Swartz's "You Don't Know What Love Is." Wow. It was just an exceptional singer and an acoustic bassist in a reverberant hall, but the AN system gave me all of that—the room, the bass, and the woman, most of all the woman. Even at her current age, Jordan is a powerful singer and she almost pegged Todd's mikes on this one. My intellect tells me that there's no way a 25Wpc amplifier can control that, even on 95dB speakers, but the Audio Notes handled those passages better than any other system I'd heard at CES.

Next came Nina Simone's "Little Girl Blue" and I was practically in tears. Everything just sounded so right. I had goosebumps—and despite all evidence to the contrary, I'd have sworn my hair was standing on end,

Forget best sound of show, for sheer emotional delivery, timbral clarity, dynamic agility, and, yes, the highest fidelity, the Audio Note system may have been the best hi-fi I have ever heard. It was one of those magical moments that we audiophiles put up with all of the hassles for.

After the Audio Note demo. the rest was noise, so I quit on a winner. Not many people who come to Vegas can say that. http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2009/


For an otherwise scientifically minded guy it irritates me that I like this kind of system more than a Bryston/B&W combination. Rather that try to convince you - what I am trying to figure out is how Audio Note is convincing me. And has for several years on the sound. I rahter likd John Atkinson't attempt that my ear is latching on to a given frequencies and our ears are basing it off that and the ear can forgive other weakness - while other listeners do not.

Clearly there are better speakers in a measurable sense - with more bass, volume capability and full range ability - 100% agree. In the end maybe Peter and crew have just found a concoction of pushing emotional buttons somehow. There is some sort of emotional equotient factor or something at play here.

In a sense that is what most of the more scientific posters (DBTers) might argue that this speaker combined with the often deemed "euphonic" SET sound and the often deemed "euphonic" AN cd players and hey turntables in general then perhaps it is this "euphony" that Wes and Art and I like that JA likes but doesn't "love" and that you like a lot less.

I can actually live with liking a "euphonic" if not wholly accurate system. To my ear it sounds "right" and I can't get off that point sometimes because if it is innacurate and it sound "right" then it is awfully darn confusing for readers.

I am happy that I enjoy the end result and I am happy that I enjoy listening to music on their speakers. I hope others will give them a try and if you don't lik them - I will very much, from this point forward, get over myself, and not put my view ahead of anyone elses. Two people can latch onto a sound and hear very different things. Some can hear noted of Mozart and run screaming from the room while the other is brought to tears of bliss. The guy who ran from Mozart may love Tupac's greatest Rap hits, whole the classical guy would balk at the word rap and greatest in the same sentence.

I do thank you for your response TAH and I think it is important to have people who hear it differently than me to remind me that not everyone will hear it the way I am hearing it. I suppose it's an "emotional kind of sound" and to achieve that it has to play on mood and certain people's hearing sympathies (ie if you are bothered more by a 1db rise at 1khz or a 10db dip 10khz kinda thing). If you design to ear then you will only please people who hear it like you. Some will hear it like Peter and some obviously do not.

[frenchmon]

Yep, we all have different tastes, that's why I try not to trash other people's opinions of audio equipment. I can only comment on what I have heard and give my opinions on what I like and dislike.

A very wise man indeed!

frenchmon