Quote Originally Posted by RGA
Run a test tone disc - have your eyes closed let someone set up the romk and run a 30hz tone through -- You will know where the sub is.

Music can take a fair bit longer because few music has any real bass - systems with a sub don;t integrate properly and sooner or later the ear drifts to where the sub is. In a short term listening test maybe not, but then the $20.00 computer speakers on the table with the sub on the floor fooled me for a few minutes too in that gee it sounded klike it was coming from the speaker -- and this is way way about 80hz.

And it's funny you mention M&K because THAT was the set-up with the sub in the middle that I was referring to. The dealer, who's father invented the sand filling speaker for Wharfedale, had Lucas as a client. The problem was that the sub in the center created a weight always int he center and the dealer rarely wanted to play anything other than a drum solo -- this music sounded great but heavier voices and a lack of left to right depth. Ultimately it was a bit of a boom and sizzle experience. Other sub set-ups in the corners namely with B&W N801 sounded dead - one note bass. If I have a complaint, aside from not meshing with the speakers is the kind of bass -- I either get fake added ambiance to everything (which i admit can sound pleasing enough) or I get an obvious tranfer.to one side of the room or a heavier weighted balance to one side of the room -- someone mentioned drums in the left corner if the sub is in the left corner -- umm that ain;t great when the drums are supposed to be on the other side.

My main experience with subs was with a Boston Acoustics SW 10 long throw powered sub. I can forgive many problems but it's problem is that it could not outdo the Wharfedale's bass depth. It could be run passive or with its power and powered it "alleviated" the Wharfedales from the task of providing the bass - The sound was terrible in this mode - boom and sizzle -- I could hear more "air" in the Wharfedale more midrange and treble but umm that's about it along with the subwoofer.

Good speakers don't need to be alleviated from their job -letting the receiver run everything sounded much better but then I ran into the problem that the sub didn't add any bass so I basically gave up on the thing.

Heard many new supposedly better subwoofer designs - but I am not going to BUY one until a dealer can prove to me that they will add musical value to the bottom end rather than one note bass or "slam" which isn't at all music but a throbbing impress your friends "wow that's cool" pyrotechnic. (like I say great for movies) not been convinced for music though I will agree that subs often help out a lot of unnaceptably aneamic speakers.
Sorry again RGA, I don't run test tones on my system other than for system setup, I run both music and movies . No one has ever been able to spot the subwoofer. Quite frankly, you wouldn't be able to locate it either, even if you were listening for it. I have listened to my system quite critically many times, there is no clue that a sub is being used.