2-way vs 3-way which is better

[shokhead]

Here's one. A tower and a bookshelf,each has the same tweeter and mid/bass speaker,two-way. How the sound and freq range different? Also is it more likly one would be ported and the other not or it wouldnt matter?

[thepogue]

I'll just never be able to make a sound decision without hearing them...and that IS a shame...

Florian

I have no relation to Audio Note -- and the one thing you and Peter Qvortrup will agree on is listening - I am the person who recreated the graph from a German Reviewer -- Audio Note produces little information on measured response because it isn;t going to tell you if it sounds good or not (unless it's way the heck out of whack and most everything priced from the Atom to the Dynaudio Evidence Master is not). I am the one who catered to what people were asking for which of course TAH you are indeed correct I probably did AN a disservice on this front.

I will say that I don't buy the notion of scale -- the AN K cannot produce the scale of a full scale live event that is true but there is no other speaker that size I have ever heard that could either and neither can the SMG - Listening to Tina Turner with the speaker properly set-up that is abundantly obvious. Something like the Avante Gaurde Uno might but to be qquite frank with AMPLIFIED music at most live concerts few home systems -- read NO - home systems mentioned ont hsi board so far in the years I've been here can replace the live event -- and the ones that can produce the levels and scale and BASS and dynamics are NOT magnepans --- Avante Gaurde's system posted here probably comes the closest but can one stomach it for listening to music the way a home system was meant for?

Soundstages are not limitless in height either so idf that is what maggies is doing it is faking it. Recordings are not recorded for the msot part like a stage but in a recording studio and often done in separate tracks and then mixed together -- they were doing that for what 40 years now laying background vocals in after lead vocals and instruments compeletely separately some of the time. I think I get why the fellow bought the SMG and why one would by a stat and a 3.6 - but it isn't me and it's not more realistic to me.

Florian the people say nothing about the speakers but generally about a certain testing methodology used in the audio industry...it has nothing whatsoever to do with any speaker so I apologise for the confusion.


TAH.
You can ask Peter what he owns presently -- it's quite a lot of gear. As for names you are correct I should not be posting what obviously he does not feel the need to do...he said to me that he does not feel it's right to convince people by listing recording studios and names etc (unless it's a specific issue/product related to a specific conversation about the issue/product and to a specific person on a forum or on the phone etc). The reason is to likely to protect the people in the industry who could get into trouble if they are fielding calls about a competitor's product. That would indeed look bad if I am working for speaker maker X, and it leaks that I prefer speaker maker Y's product. There is some tact that needs to be maintained and I again I should leave that. Mentioning names is inapriate I agree and not what AN would desire.

Pogue.

I understand the complaint and so does Audio Note. This company has been around since the 1970s but for most of that period has sold ultra expensive gear. People like Paul Lam who is a dealer who sometimes posts on forums told me that the price to get into Audio Note is too high for him to be able to carry such a line. The dealers hit North America I believe 3-4 years ago and sit at about 25 dealers in North America. Soundhounds picked them up because the store owner had already owend Snell E's. He happened upon them and decided to carry them because he wanted a SET line. In the last three years they have dropped at least 4 speaker lines and a number of their amplifier lines and AN is the biggest seller he has. Considering the price of AN gear when you are selling MORE stifly priced ugly non home theater friendly products versus way more household names then they're doing something.

Few dealers have these kinds of very deep pockets - they are the biggest Rega dealer in North america. Not every dealer around WANTS tube amps let alone SETs. Hi Fi Center in Vancouver has been sitting on a Jadis amp for 3 years -- it's probably STILL in the front window and when i was in they were going to give ti to me for $1700.00 -- it was retailing for $6k. But they have nothing(speakers) in the store that likes tubes.

So you are a businessman with limited dollars - are you going to sell the home theater room which is relatively low cost outlay to you, where the stuff looks cool does everything, and then sell the person several boxes, the stuff has so many write ups that you really don;t have to do anything but tell the customer how much it is and let them play with it for 20 minutes and then collect the money, where the whole set-up is $1500.00 -$2k. You can sell a LOT of these because many more people can buy it --- and in more areas of the country. OR do you want to sell a $3,000.00 10 watt amplifier where every few years you have to buy tubes to stick in) and ohh there is no remote control and forget home theater compeltely. Ohh you want speakers and a cd player at that level as well - now you're into $10k...and you still don't get surround sound...how many people are going to lay out that kind of coin? And that's a pretty entry levelish system for Audio Note if you want a true representation of what they're really about. Even the dealers who ARE currently carrying Audio Note in North America - many of them are compromises to Peter's vision of how it should be sold - some carry them because they really like the stuff but carry very little content. Soundhounds is a success because one can hear several models of everything so one can hear the difference between levels -- but more importantly they can also hear big big competitors.

But maybe what you are saying is that because they are not readily available that means they are not as good? But we know why this argument is less succeful because one can see the analogy that Rolls Royce and Ferrari are not around every corner - but Caveliers and Focuses are. Bose is sold all over the place, Magnepan, Dynaudio and many many higher end speakers are not available in a lot of areas. As an example, There is one maggie dealer in this Province of over 4million people -- Bose is at every Future shop(and they are as common as Best Buy to you guys in the US) --- and Bose is even sold at the dealer the maggie is sold at.

I'm sorry but if I want to make massive money I'm going to try and carry what I know will sell with the least possible fuss and most people can afford.

And if I'm going to sell to people a product that has no features, is butt ugly, has little to no real information (measurements or press reviews relative to the rest of the stuff carried in the store), is expensive etc etc and have them base their decision on the sound quality of the system and ignore those major areas where they're beaten --- then by heaven it had better be vastly superior to the other stuff I'm carrying --- and I better be damn sure I'm selling in an area where people will indeed go by the sound quality by spending many many hours. Then the dealer better want to invest that timne as well. FEW are going to want that hassle...I wouldn't. Another dealer said they'd kill to sell B&O -- sure it's crap but it sells and has huge profit margins -- who cares about the sound?

[vr6ofpain]

I really want to listen to the Spendor S5e. Though I cannot afford it at this point in my life, but I like to wish I could.

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...ws/904spendor/



Though honsestly I am also very interested in the EPOS M5's, which I could afford.

[abstracta]

and they will also point blank tell you that they could never sell it to audiophiles because there is no marketing whirlwind around a chubby ugly 2 way speaker that doesn't have any fancy new advertising gimmick to sell

Probably because most two way speakers are grease off the same meatball and sound the same anyways regardless of what the audiophiles tell us, and please state your official affiliation with B&W to be speaking for them. I'm not a huge B&W fan citing my own opinion that their designs might have the highest cost per lack of dymamic extension ratio in the industry. Still, I give B/W credit for building what I consider among the most seamless sonic integration between tweeter and midrange I've ever heard in a typical cone design. Even the more complex time phase corrected designs I've heard often don't seem to be able to 'gell' the upper stage drivers together like I've heard B&W 801's do.At least somebody at that company got a clue and finally figured out 'gee, if we reduce baffle area and hence second order reflections, it might sound better.' Seems they were right (at least to my ears), but too many audiphiles are listeing to the inner beauty of their millimeter thick glued on Rosewood finishes and $1000 tonearms to realize this.

About the only "ugly" speaker I've seen/heard that actually sound good are Wilson's.

and panels and planars -- well the ship sunk on them with a few still conning people.

Magnepan owners are some the most loyal, satisfied and pragmatic speaker owners I know, so I'm not sure where you are getting your demographics. I'll also take a big pair of Maggie 1.6's over the over hyped "small driver - big box' designs you seem to be promoting simply because they have an over engineered crossover. The 'big box - little driver' philosophy can be seen at any high end audio shop by multi thousand dollar two way designs that feature large, 3-4' tall speaker cabinets, but only a single 6.5" woofer and tweeter. These type designs were hugely popular in the 90's, and are frankly the most over-rated junk made because they all rely on box gain to produce a few more DB extension on the lower end for you brave audiophiles out there willing to listen to something else besides your stupid violin concertos and light jazz ensembles. Nothing like having a big empty box of MDF to create bass for you, but we need endless pages of spectral diagrams about why some PhD in electronics is smarter than the the other speaker geek, but it's the crossover that counts, right? Cut the big empty box out, and you have nothing more than another $4000 book shelf speaker.

Small speaker = small sound. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the laws of accoustic physics. That right there in a nutshell illustrates my almost complete and total apathy for two way designs, and increasing contempt.

At least the maggies have more than half a square foot of piston area trying to fill an average size room, which is another case of denial in the audio industry. As for 'returns', I'm betting most of them are from users not willing to sit with their head in a vise - not because of having room problems. I'm not willing to put up with head in a vise sweet spot restrictions either, but I'll admit I adore the sound field produced by the big maggies.

I have heard only three maggies in my life and none of them do bass properly

Says you. The bigger maggies do bass better than a big empty box of MDF and a whimpy 6.5" driver, that's for sure.

Also note that there are far more speaker designers than drivers available on the market, and far fewer high end drivers worth using. Many, many high end cone based speakers use the same frikken driver, yet claim a sonic superiority or unique quality over another speaker using the exact same components. Dude, unless your guru is designing and building his own drivers and mating them with custom crossovers, save us the razzle dazzle. I'll let my ears and common sense decide.

Soundstages are not limitless in height either so idf that is what maggies is doing it is faking it.

The maggie accomplishes it by having a huge radiating area, linear dispersion area, and very narrow sweet spot. Your "superior" solution seems to be a small cone driver radiating from a logical single point in space and using an empty box of MDF to augment low frequency sound. I'd rather get a pair of headphones......they sound better, and are cheaper.

[vr6ofpain]

I run bookshelves and a sub because that is what I can afford right now...

I find it interesting what you were saying about the 'bookshelf' speakers in a large 'tower' enclosure. I have always wondered how much they actually use the larger enclosure space. To me when you look at them you wonder why they didnt put in more drivers, or if it is a lower line model, 'missing' other drivers.

What kinda of speakers are you running?

[Florian]

Probably because most two way speakers are grease off the same meatball and sound the same anyways regardless of what the audiophiles tell us, and please state your official affiliation with B&W to be speaking for them. I'm not a huge B&W fan citing my own opinion that their designs might have the highest cost per lack of dymamic extension ratio in the industry. Still, I give B/W credit for building what I consider among the most seamless sonic integration between tweeter and midrange I've ever heard in a typical cone design. Even the more complex time phase corrected designs I've heard often don't seem to be able to 'gell' the upper stage drivers together like I've heard B&W 801's do.At least somebody at that company got a clue and finally figured out 'gee, if we reduce baffle area and hence second order reflections, it might sound better.' Seems they were right (at least to my ears), but too many audiphiles are listeing to the inner beauty of their millimeter thick glued on Rosewood finishes and $1000 tonearms to realize this.

About the only "ugly" speaker I've seen/heard that actually sound good are Wilson's.



Magnepan owners are some the most loyal, satisfied and pragmatic speaker owners I know, so I'm not sure where you are getting your demographics. I'll also take a big pair of Maggie 1.6's over the over hyped "small driver - big box' designs you seem to be promoting simply because they have an over engineered crossover. The 'big box - little driver' philosophy can be seen at any high end audio shop by multi thousand dollar two way designs that feature large, 3-4' tall speaker cabinets, but only a single 6.5" woofer and tweeter. These type designs were hugely popular in the 90's, and are frankly the most over-rated junk made because they all rely on box gain to produce a few more DB extension on the lower end for you brave audiophiles out there willing to listen to something else besides your stupid violin concertos and light jazz ensembles. Nothing like having a big empty box of MDF to create bass for you, but we need endless pages of spectral diagrams about why some PhD in electronics is smarter than the the other speaker geek, but it's the crossover that counts, right? Cut the big empty box out, and you have nothing more than another $4000 book shelf speaker.

Small speaker = small sound. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the laws of accoustic physics. That right there in a nutshell illustrates my almost complete and total apathy for two way designs, and increasing contempt.

At least the maggies have more than half a square foot of piston area trying to fill an average size room, which is another case of denial in the audio industry. As for 'returns', I'm betting most of them are from users not willing to sit with their head in a vise - not because of having room problems. I'm not willing to put up with head in a vise sweet spot restrictions either, but I'll admit I adore the sound field produced by the big maggies.



Says you. The bigger maggies do bass better than a big empty box of MDF and a whimpy 6.5" driver, that's for sure.

Also note that there are far more speaker designers than drivers available on the market, and far fewer high end drivers worth using. Many, many high end cone based speakers use the same frikken driver, yet claim a sonic superiority or unique quality over another speaker using the exact same components. Dude, unless your guru is designing and building his own drivers and mating them with custom crossovers, save us the razzle dazzle. I'll let my ears and common sense decide.



The maggie accomplishes it by having a huge radiating area, linear dispersion area, and very narrow sweet spot. Your "superior" solution seems to be a small cone driver radiating from a logical single point in space and using an empty box of MDF to augment low frequency sound. I'd rather get a pair of headphones......they sound better, and are cheaper.

Thank you, finally someone with brains. Now some points of my own, my 3.6R/SE plays down to 30Hz flat in the room with no stupid box coloring the sound. They load the room equally and create less room modes than those stupid boxes. The have canceling sidewaves and a huge radiating area.

I dont know where RGA comes from, but when i go to a live concert the stage is at least 60feet wide and deep. The instruments are very large and radiate sound 360 degree al around. Your stupid little box will never ever throw a realistic soundstage with the sheer size and pinpoint precision as my 3.6R/SE's. you have heard a 15 year old MG1 and you judge the Maggies by it.

Maggie fans are the most loyal, and in 99% of all cases is the 3.6R or the 20.1 the last speaker people will even by.

I sold my sub after i got my 3.6's, since they will make your carpet move.
The Maggies have soooo much more surface area than your small box its not even funny. Bass is made by moving air, and the Maggie move mre than 10 times the air your AN does.

Stop writing crap with stupid PHD geeks telling me how i am supposed to listen to music. When i listen to my system, than i have the players and the instruments in my room !! No small presentaion.

You are gonna tell me that the grand piona used my the munich ffilharmonica orchestra is small ??? It is huge, and it has a huge open sound. And noo box will give me that.

Give me planar or death !!!! Either Magies, Apogees, Soundlabs...

I have a wonderfull box speaker here, which is the RM30. It uses Planar ribbons from 166Hz to 7K, all in phase and no stupid x-over in the critical area. Now thats a box i like to listen too, and on paper it goes down to 28Hz but the Maggies still crush it.

END---Rant :::

[Geoffcin]

I really want to listen to the Spendor S5e. Though I cannot afford it at this point in my life, but I like to wish I could.

Though honsestly I am also very interested in the EPOS M5's, which I could afford.

Just goes to show you that audio mags are worth reading.

[shokhead]

I dont care what kind of really neat speakers anyone has,to get rid of a sub or not have one is doing a diservice to you speakers. Those poor things are yelling for some relief,get me a fricken sub so i'll sound even better. Guess its a man o man thing,got these bigo speakers,i dont need no big woofer.

[Florian]

Could use please explain your post so that peopl can actually understand what you mean? I read it twice, and have absolutly no idea were you stand or what you are trying to say.

[Geoffcin]

I dont care what kind of really neat speakers anyone has,to get rid of a sub or not have one is doing a diservice to you speakers. Those poor things are yelling for some relief,get me a fricken sub so i'll sound even better. Guess its a man o man thing,got these bigo speakers,i dont need no big woofer.

Woofers?, "We don't have no woofers,....I don't have to show you any stinking woofers!"

[shokhead]

LMAO Thats what i'm talk'n about.

[shokhead]

Could use please explain your post so that peopl can actually understand what you mean? I read it twice, and have absolutly no idea were you stand or what you are trying to say.

I'm not supprised.

[Florian]

What the hell is that supposed to mean?
if it is what i think it is, then crawl back to Best Buy were you came from

[shokhead]

Oh,ok. Well lets stop talking about you,your speakers and me and get back to 2 and 3 way speakers. I'll start. I think a good two-way bookshelf not only will sound good but save abit of money over a tower.

[RGA]

abstracta

Your post is quite strange indeed, knocking boxed speakers for lack of dynamics -- why support planars -- which woefully are innadequat in this regard - even by those who favourable review them say that?

A great many reviews and personal opinion note B&W's lack of driver integration.

Yes many speakers do have small drivers in a bigger cabinet -- AN is Birch ply or chipboard in their inexpensive enclosures. MDF has been used strategically as a wrap for some less expensive models.

As for soundstage -- AN recommends the sepaker be placed in corners preceisely because the stage will be as large as your room can hold and bass is reinforced so that the perception is that the sound is the size of your wall (it should be not artifially faked to be larger). The two driver two way can reach 16hz-18hz (with a usuable frequency to 12hz) at reasonably loud levels.

Audio Note's woofers act in a radiating manner and not as pistons augmenting the cabinet to expiditiously remove resonances outside of the audible realm.

I respect the fact that people may like Magnepan and electrostatic panels --- not everyone does -- Reviewer John Marks of Stereophile doesn't like them -- big fat hairy deal -- if you guys like em then that's the point -- your money your preference --- ditto for me.

[Geoffcin]

abstracta

Your post is quite strange indeed, knocking boxed speakers for lack of dynamics -- why support planars -- which woefully are innadequat in this regard - even by those who favourable review them say that?

Planars are incredible for dynamics. Case in point; My daughter just turned me onto the soundtrack from the Pirates of the Carribean. The classical score is huge in dynamics, but I didn't know how much until I pulled out the SPL meter. The swing was from ~40db to well over 105db (I briefly saw 107) My entire house was shaking and it sounded like a 140 piece ochestra was right in the room with us, 3 sets of Tympani and all. If your standmounts can recreate this type of music in this way then god bless you, because I've never heard such from ANY standmount speaker ever made.

[Geoffcin]

abstracta


As for soundstage -- AN recommends the sepaker be placed in corners preceisely because the stage will be as large as your room can hold and bass is reinforced so that the perception is that the sound is the size of your wall (it should be not artifially faked to be larger). The two driver two way can reach 16hz-18hz (with a usuable frequency to 12hz) at reasonably loud levels.

My room is 16 feet wide. If I were to place 2 standmount speakers in the corners it would sound like what it is; two standmount speakers in the corners with NOTHING in the middle. Since they are not dipoles, NOTHING would be coming from the center of the room except the sound of sucking air. Perhaps that's what you call soundstage debth, but to me it would sound like a big vacant hole.

The bass re-enforcement your talking about does occur, but even with just rudimentry math you can easily figure that an 8" speaker with a free air resonance of 25 hz at best can only produce a few db of bass below that without major excursion of the driver, and hence massive distortion. It's simple physics, and unless you've found a way to create cold fusion there's no way around it.

Usable frequancy @ 12 hz?! Not even my twin 15" Velodynes could give you that, for that you have to go to the massive multi-thousand watt (6000 thousand but who's counting) Velodyne Digital Drive 1812 Signature Edition. Are you saying your 8" woofered standmounts can compete with a sub like that, or perhaps they can only just outdo my two 15" velodynes?

[Geoffcin]

[QUOTE=RGA]
Audio Note's woofers act in a radiating manner and not as pistons augmenting the cabinet to expiditiously remove resonances outside of the audible realm.
QUOTE]

Your woofers are just that, woofers. They are mechanical pistons; no more, no less. I don't know what you've been reading but the mechanical properties of woofer dynamics have been thoroughly explained. It's not rocket science, and there's no magic that AN has found to release your woofers from the realm of the physical world.

[RGA]

My room is 16 feet wide. If I were to place 2 standmount speakers in the corners it would sound like what it is; two standmount speakers in the corners with NOTHING in the middle. Since they are not dipoles, NOTHING would be coming from the center of the room except the sound of sucking air. Perhaps that's what you call soundstage debth, but to me it would sound like a big vacant hole.

The bass re-enforcement your talking about does occur, but even with just rudimentry math you can easily figure that an 8" speaker with a free air resonance of 25 hz at best can only produce a few db of bass below that without major excursion of the driver, and hence massive distortion. It's simple physics, and unless you've found a way to create cold fusion there's no way around it.

Usable frequancy @ 12 hz?! Not even my twin 15" Velodynes could give you that, for that you have to go to the massive multi-thousand watt (6000 thousand but who's counting) Velodyne Digital Drive 1812 Signature Edition. Are you saying your 8" woofered standmounts can compete with a sub like that, or perhaps they can only just outdo my two 15" velodynes?

Actually not only am i saying this Peter will bet you on it...he has said and argued on forums before that while the competition has speakers with 4 multiple 12 inch woofers per side (he owns some of them and big Apogee Scintillas) that it is not NECESARRY for Full range bass.

There is also complex physics apparently -- maybe everyone is sticking only to simple physics. (Usable response is -10db and the E is 12hz here) -- though I don;t know if that is ALL the E's or just the higher ones where there is a different HF Alnico woofer being used. There is no doubt that the cabinet itself is augmenting the deep bass. (now there is a volume capability limit here however - A subwoofer can play 20hz way louder (where the physics comes in) and Audio Note isn't designed to play at a 140db...which is why when you pay more you are not just getting another driver slapped in a box to add 4hz you get better sound. Also there is a room size limit -- AN is built for normal listening rooms not 4000square foot gymnasium sized rooms. so of Course you can get MORE deep bass with a dedicated massive subwoofer -- whether it will be GOOD bass or not well that is something else again -- and for people who think bass is just bass - have yet to hear it done properly.

The AN E will however do the 16hz organ pedal test and at the shows a few years ago several people from competitors were looking in the ceiling for the "hidden subwoofer" because it is "impossible" to achieve bass that deep from that size cabinet with that size driver --- impossible for some maybe(BTW this was also done via LP on their turntable and was more about demonstrating that than anything else). Now these figures were confirmed by Martin Colloms in Hi-fi News and these figures ARE in room response with the speakers in the corners...so yes they are helped by their position and wall reinfrcement -- but that's the design - the cabinet adds about an octave apparently if one of the reviewers who said it was correct --- though. And to be fair these are Bigger than your average standmounts.

The speakers are not heavily damped (they have taken the damping out so much so as to remove the ferro-fluid cooling) - they use strategic damping to alleviate that boxed nasality which is why SOOOOOO many people including me never "upgraded" to boxed speakers". Your descriptions of boxed speakers is not surprising and I don't think it's wrong -- when i first heard Stats there was a sound there that I despearately wanted.

When I listen to the AN J or E and then listen to a Totem or B&W it's like someone has thrown a wet blanket over the thing -- why the hell do you think I go into forums and become the human torch?

There is a fellow here who owned the Mani 2 for several years spent a whole 10 minutes with the E and that was that, --the Mani2 was gone. Another fellow the last time I was at Soundhounds owns the top of the line GIGANTIC Tannoy Winchester or whatever it's called (whcih Soundhounds carried as well) That speaker is at least 3 times the volume maybe 4 or 5 that of the E. This guy and his wife were sitting behind me and we were listening to Also sprach Zarathrustra and some Leanard Cohen and Allison Krauss and his wife was gee that sounds better doesn't it...he was shaking his head in rather frustrated disbelief. Yeah a whole 8 watts driving it.

It is also not surprising that 3 different quad owners (who I know personally and on forums) who have heard Audio Note have said it's the only boxed speaker they have ever heard that they'd consider giving up their panel for (which granted was said about the E and not the K)...indeed, one of them has owned Quad for 25 years and now has the E...it has the open sound (not artificially created with a spitty metal tweeter) it has the scale and more importantly, and a BIG reason I like them, is that they have the speed and attack on acoustic instruments that I have never heard from a BOXED speakers (thanks to paper and high efficiency baflfe and lack of overdamping perhaps).

They have been described as the best of horns and stats rolled up together into one speaker.

Peter could have taken the rights of Apogee and used those as models (and he could charge way more to boot) to improve -- he owns the top Apoogees 9scintillas which are panels?) and has dealt Quad -- Quad has contracted Audio Note's top designer Andy Grove. Peter does not claim to know everything -- he steals everyone elses stuff and makes it better -- no reason to re-invent the wheel when it's perfectly round --- many other ocmpanies had to make big compromises due to finances -- Peter doesn't need to.

Bottom line is they've been around since the 1970s selling uber expensive gear - UK side of things have come to down to a saner price level -- and NO not everyone is going to like it -- and yes it is a bit of "religious" conversion -- I e-mailed him a while back and he said many people get that - and yes I respect that many won't.

[Florian]

Planars are incredible for dynamics. Case in point; My daughter just turned me onto the soundtrack from the Pirates of the Carribean. The classical score is huge in dynamics, but I didn't know how much until I pulled out the SPL meter. The swing was from ~40db to well over 105db (I briefly saw 107) My entire house was shaking and it sounded like a 140 piece ochestra was right in the room with us, 3 sets of Tympani and all. If your standmounts can recreate this type of music in this way then god bless you, because I've never heard such from ANY standmount speaker ever made.

I can only state the same. The dynamics and realistic recreation of the performance. Your soundstage is as big as your room RGA ? I pitty you, because mine extends beyon the natural boundries of the room. If you like to quote people from Stereophile etc... then here goes one for you

Jonathan Valin, of Fi Magazine, said in December, 1998, Volume 3, Issue 12,

"So what have we got here? A big planar speaker that throws the widest, deepest, tallest, most coherent soundfield I've heard from a hi-fi system, filled with the most naturally-sized instruments I've heard from a hi-fi system, with the sweetest, most natural timbres I've heard from a hi-fi system, the finest dynamic nuance I've heard from a hi-fi system (particularly in the treble), and the most natural illusion of instrumental "action" I've heard from a hi-fi system. What we've got here, in sum, is "realistic reproduction" in the highest sense of the phrase, in the sense I spoke of earlier, the virtual duplication of instruments and voices rather than mere analogs of certain aspects of their sound....While it's hard to call anything that costs nearly ten grand a bargain, I can tell you this; if it were my money, and I were shopping for the very best, these are the speakers I'd buy."

Oh another one

Stereophile's by Brian Damkroger said this about the MG3.6 in August 2000

Taken on its own, however, the Magnepan Magneplanar MG3.6/R is a sensational speaker and, at $3750/pair, very reasonably priced. In some respects it's the best speaker I've heard period. Even in the areas where it's perhaps not the very best, it's awfully close -even when the very best is several times more expensive. Some speakers I admire, some I like ... the Magnepan MG3.6/R, I think I'll keep. Very highly recommended!

I suggest a competition, give me one person in germany with some AN speaker and we will compare it to the 3.6R/SE...

[Florian]

Peter could have taken the rights of Apogee and used those as models (and he could charge way more to boot) to improve -- he owns the top Apoogees 9scintillas which are panels?) and has dealt Quad -- Quad has contracted Audio Note's top designer Andy Grove. Peter does not claim to know everything -- he steals everyone elses stuff and makes it better -- no reason to re-invent the wheel when it's perfectly round --- many other ocmpanies had to make big compromises due to finances -- Peter doesn't need to.
.

Sounds to me like he saw an oppertunity to market a cheap mdf box through the marketing of phd people and sell it for waay to much. Actually, doesnt BOSE do that?

[RGA]

I don't know the processed Silver alone in one of his AN E level speakers will run you $40,000.00 just for the silver -- they use some of the best Paper drivers available on this planet and the best Alnico magnets. All Birch Ply real wood cabinets...how much is a piece of cloth running these days?. Every speaker is hand tested and aligned -- labour is more expensive that parts in this and most industries.

Soundhounds did the demo you seek -- the result of which is that they no longer carry Magnepan --- and indeed, while they're site lists Martin logan -- they only carry them in name (ie you can order it through them) but it was too embarrassing a match-up.

Bose was very good at falsifying soundstages as well so that everything played through a 901 sound enormous whether it is suppose to or not. My session with the 3.6 and Bryston was not particularly great with unevenness and open but sizzly quality to the proceedings - bass was deep not the least bit credible in the dynamics -- so let me guess it's the amplifiers fault and or the room correct? Yeah I hear this one a lot.

You want to argue cost to price ratio you shoud be real sure where you get the information - Skeptic already got into a long thread with Peter about this on AA and the cost to end price of Audio Note is strikingly low relative to most out there...and that includes their $125,000.00 speakers -- and it doesn't avoid the fact that that every other company isn't selling their speakers at cost.

Your rhetoric of limitless high stage is idiotic sorry because when i see a band play I am not hearing the singer 50 feet in the air wither her band up there?? Heck man what the hell are you talking about? magnepan reminds me of watching a movie in pan and scan where everything is blown up larger than it is in life and misses a lot of the content for "air'

I don't really want to argue the point because I like it more than most and I get why some people would really not have anything else -- I'm not trying to convert you - but it is my opinion that ONE speaker should play all kinds of music -- a lot of maggie owners seem to always end up buying other speakers for other kinds of music or because they "Have a change of mood today?" That to me is an obvious indication that the speaker lacks for some music -- music such as rock where this kind of rythm dynamics is required.

If all I listened to was acoustic music Magnepan and Quad and ML(even with the woofer problem) I would enjoy.

[Florian]

Your rhetoric of limitless high stage is idiotic sorry because when i see a band play I am not hearing the singer 50 feet in the air wither her band up there?? Heck man what the hell are you talking about? magnepan reminds me of watching a movie in pan and scan where everything is blown up larger than it is in life and misses a lot of the content for "air'

If you heard the band play 50ft in the air, than you have listened to the Maggie with the 100% wrong electronics, and wrong setup first of all. Second, i listen to mostly heavy metal, symphonic metal and rock. If the Maggies would have no dynamics and only good for jazz do you really think that i would spend 8000$ for my speaker ?

I suggest, you go to the planar asylum and post your responses and you will see what you get. Incl. an invitation to hear a real Maggie system. Besides, whats the first thing to make up for boomy bass?, move them out from the wall. Treat the room for room nodes, but what do you recommend?, to put the paper box in the corner and use the enforcment. What a bunch of crap, since the US has wood houses, and we have stone houses. Both materials that reinforce frequencys differently. The whole theory is a joke, sorry.

PS: You obviously have never heard a life instrument or a 200 man orchestra since at least by then you would realize why your paper box will never recreate the event.

[shokhead]

Can we end this thread because i would rather talk about 2-way and 3-way then somebodys great speakers and buy the way,i've been to a couple of concerts and there isnt any speaker that sounds as good. Now i'm off to BB to look at some speakers. {Maybe Maggies} LOL

[Florian]

Check out some 1.6's, but you have to loose your electronics in order for them to sing. Also at least 5ft from the backwall and ribbons on the inside.