Some Good News For A Change

[Feanor]

What people don't seem to realize (or at least don't mention) is that it's no longer just about the national economy. It's a world economy. Countries like China have people who do not live nearly as well as what we have come to expect for ourselves. .... Our manufacturers have found out that they can get more production for their dollar in these countries. So that's where the money is going. That's why we owe China so much. Until their economy builds up to the point where Mr Average Chang starts demanding more money, we will have trouble putting this gene back in the bottle. I don't see it getting a lot better for us anytime soon (no matter what we do). But we will survive. We may have to do without the latest upgrades, but we will eat.

Right you are GM. The genie ain't going back in the bottle. It is inevidable that standards of living will equalize across the globe. People here, (North American, Europe, Japan), need to remember that it won't entirely be poor countries rising to our standard of living -- our standard will be falling simaltaneously so as to meet theirs somewhere in the middle. In fact, working incomes US and Canada level off in the '80s and have declined significantly in the last decade -- like I said though, most haven't yet felt a drop in our living standards because we have be able to borrow -- 'till now -- to make up the decline.

Now, say you're guy whose just lost his job to somebody in China: how much do you feel you "owe" the Chinese guy? Are you glad that you can now buy for thing that you used to make for less because he now makes? Maybe so. But note that already (in a small degree) the Chinese worker has begun to experience the pressure of lower wages elsewhere. Of course the "elsewhere" isn't (yet) North American but, say, Bangladesh.

Tighten that belt buck, bro.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Bush's NeoCon credentials were well established in 1999. How come an ignorant foreigner like me saw perfectly well that he has going to bngger you guys and the rest of us? Appearances were all you Americans need, but you stupidly chose to ignore every sign.

And as for 2003, shame, shame, shame on you. The world says except no smirk.

I don't see any good advise in this. I don't know what "bngger" means, but this post sounds like someone who has a deep seated disdain for us Americans...

[Ajani]

I don't see any good advise in this. I don't know what "bngger" means, but this post sounds like someone who has a deep seated disdain for us Americans...

Fine, that was a nasty post.... and based on the tone I'm going to assume it was part of a quarrel... Posts made during quarrels are not always the best reflection of what someone really thinks...

I've seen (and to some extent been involved in) some of the political exchanges between you and Feanor... Feanor has a lot of very strong opinions on American Politics and you 'appear' to dislike hearing foreigners' opinions on your country... This is a perfect recipe for misunderstandings...

I don't think Feanor hates Americans... What happens in America affects all of us foreigners and so we watch your elections and politics with held breath, hoping that we won't all get screwed if the American public votes for the wrong guy... America is like the musclebound jock in high school... if he chooses to use his brain and be a nice guy, then he can be a role model to the whole school, but if he decides to be a bully then everyone starts hiding...

You need to understand that there is a difference between hating someone and just being afraid of what they might do...

[Feanor]

Fine, that was a nasty post.... and based on the tone I'm going to assume it was part of a quarrel... Posts made during quarrels are not always the best reflection of what someone really thinks...
...

Yes, a bit nasty in tone. I apologize for the tone but not the substance. My message is simply that American should have know better than to vote for Dubyah the first time, much less the second time.

I am, overall, a great admirer of the United States of America. Thus I hold the country and its leadership to a high standard. Strong criticism of the US against a very high standard may be equated to mild criticism of a country of lessor stature against a much lower standard. But seemly some Americans feel it is presumptuous that their country should be criticized at all.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Yes, a bit nasty in tone. I apologize for the tone but not the substance. My message is simply that American should have know better than to vote for Dubyah the first time, much less the second time.

You do that a lot. But only when it's pointed out to you.

We voted for Bush because Bill Clinton and his wife were/are sleazy liars. They painted a really bad picture of the Democratic party.

And thanks for making me fail on my New Years resolution.

I am, overall, a great admirer of the United States of America. Thus I hold the country and its leadership to a high standard. Strong criticism of the US against a very high standard may be equated to mild criticism of a country of lessor stature against a much lower standard. But seemly some Americans feel it is presumptuous that their country should be criticized at all.

Baffling us with bullsh!t.

Not presumptuous on my part. Big difference between flat out personally attacking the American populous and criticizing the country. But that's your trademark Feanor.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Fine, that was a nasty post.... and based on the tone I'm going to assume it was part of a quarrel... Posts made during quarrels are not always the best reflection of what someone really thinks...

I've seen (and to some extent been involved in) some of the political exchanges between you and Feanor... Feanor has a lot of very strong opinions on American Politics and you 'appear' to dislike hearing foreigners' opinions on your country... This is a perfect recipe for misunderstandings...

I don't think Feanor hates Americans... What happens in America affects all of us foreigners and so we watch your elections and politics with held breath, hoping that we won't all get screwed if the American public votes for the wrong guy... America is like the musclebound jock in high school... if he chooses to use his brain and be a nice guy, then he can be a role model to the whole school, but if he decides to be a bully then everyone starts hiding...

You need to understand that there is a difference between hating someone and just being afraid of what they might do...

Unfortunately Ajani, I do not go to the polls and vote in a way that makes other countries more comfortable. If I vote for what I decide is good for my country, and it makes other countries uncomfortable, that's too bad I am afraid. I do not see citizens in other contries voting in a way that makes American more comfortable, the palestinians certainly didn't voting Hamas into power.

[Feanor]

I don't see any good advise in this. I don't know what "bngger" means, but this post sounds like someone who has a deep seated disdain for us Americans...

What is an 'n' rotated 180°?

Most of the world -- including me -- looks to the United States for leadership in many in areas including economics, ethics, and geopolitics. We are disappointed and frustrated when the U.S. comes up even a little short.

I am sadden when a sizable portion of US citizens votes on the basis of discredited and untimely right-wing ideologies with the result that the most powerful political offices in the world are turned over to incompotent and ethically-corrupt individuals. Not only America but the whole world is punished as a consequence -- I'm not only saddened but a bit angry reflecting on this. Be mindful that a very large portion of people outside the US hold the outgoing US administration to blame for causing or exacerbating various serious problems in the world today.

Fortunately the new US Federal administration holds out hope for significant improvements in many areas. I am solidly with the sensible Americans of good will who will supporting their government's undertakings to right the problems.

[pixelthis]

Right you are GM. The genie ain't going back in the bottle. It is inevidable that standards of living will equalize across the globe. People here, (North American, Europe, Japan), need to remember that it won't entirely be poor countries rising to our standard of living -- our standard will be falling simaltaneously so as to meet theirs somewhere in the middle. In fact, working incomes US and Canada level off in the '80s and have declined significantly in the last decade -- like I said though, most haven't yet felt a drop in our living standards because we have be able to borrow -- 'till now -- to make up the decline.

Now, say you're guy whose just lost his job to somebody in China: how much do you feel you "owe" the Chinese guy? Are you glad that you can now buy for thing that you used to make for less because he now makes? Maybe so. But note that already (in a small degree) the Chinese worker has begun to experience the pressure of lower wages elsewhere. Of course the "elsewhere" isn't (yet) North American but, say, Bangladesh.

Tighten that belt buck, bro.

Its not inevitable, its what the powers that be want.
Rob from the rich to give to the poor.
AND THEN KILL THE POOR.
Because the intention is NOT to help the poor but DESTROY THE RICH...
especially the USA.
Then, when everybodies equally starving to death along comes the man on the white
horse, the PTB choosen stooge to rule for them...
SOONER rather than later.

[nightflier]

Auric,

I actually always considered Bose a natural fit with the iPod crowd. Design wise they are also cute (I know it's a matter of taste), small, and have a dumbed down, mass-market / CE interface. Much of their gear is also white. Maybe Bose would benefit from rounding the angular designs a bit, but otherwise it's a mystery why the Bose & iPod markets aren't more cozy. Maybe it's Bose's unrealistic price-point or a marketing dispute of some sort, but I think both Apple and Bose could benefit (profit-wise, more so that quality-wise of course) from a closer marketing relationship. Not doing so, is perhaps at their own detriment.

Wooch,

Didn't know about Sterophile's slightly checkered past. Good to know. I do wish they would cover more affordable gear, though, especially in this economy. Sure I don't mind reading about $30K Magico speakers, but considering how few people will actually buy a pair, it might not be necessary to do a full analysis of them. I was also intreged by YG Acoustics and the 2-page ads, while there doesn't seem to be a review anywhere. Then I saw that the speakers cost $30K and up. Maybe all that is going to pay for those ads?

Pix,

Its not inevitable, its what the powers that be want.
Rob from the rich to give to the poor.
AND THEN KILL THE POOR.
Because the intention is NOT to help the poor but DESTROY THE RICH...
especially the USA.
Then, when everybodies equally starving to death along comes the man on the white
horse, the PTB choosen stooge to rule for them...
SOONER rather than later.

You seem to be suffering from a case of diarrhea of the brain. Wear a diaper around your mouth, will you?

[Woochifer]

I actually always considered Bose a natural fit with the iPod crowd. Design wise they are also cute (I know it's a matter of taste), small, and have a dumbed down, mass-market / CE interface. Much of their gear is also white. Maybe Bose would benefit from rounding the angular designs a bit, but otherwise it's a mystery why the Bose & iPod markets aren't more cozy. Maybe it's Bose's unrealistic price-point or a marketing dispute of some sort, but I think both Apple and Bose could benefit (profit-wise, more so that quality-wise of course) from a closer marketing relationship. Not doing so, is perhaps at their own detriment.

I think Apple is actually the 800-pound gorilla in the audio industry right now. All of the products that dock with the iPod are licensed from Apple, and if you take a look at what crowds onto store shelves, iPod-capable products are moving into just about every audio segment. In this market, Bose is just another licensee and frankly, Apple's ads run circles around those from Bose (and just about everybody else).

Didn't know about Sterophile's slightly checkered past. Good to know. I do wish they would cover more affordable gear, though, especially in this economy. Sure I don't mind reading about $30K Magico speakers, but considering how few people will actually buy a pair, it might not be necessary to do a full analysis of them. I was also intreged by YG Acoustics and the 2-page ads, while there doesn't seem to be a review anywhere. Then I saw that the speakers cost $30K and up. Maybe all that is going to pay for those ads?

I actually don't regard that as a checkered past. Stereophile used to be a more sensible publication that actually covered sensibly priced components, and ways that consumers could get more enjoyment out of their systems. If mass market company made a decent product, Stereophile would let its readers know. At that time, The Absolute Sound was nothing more than anti-digital propagandizing while Stereo Review often didn't even include listening tests -- Stereophile simply took the middle road and did quite well.

I think that Stereophile's evolution has more or less followed the high end audio market's move towards ultra expensive statement pieces and high priced accessories. There seems to be more orthodoxy that's governed by what people perceive as high end, as opposed to simply informing readers about what quality gear is on the market regardless of whether it comes from a "high end" company.

At one point a few years ago, Stereophile did review some budget priced mass market components, but I think many of their readers got so offended by the inclusion of $300 JBL speakers that Stereophile went back to audio porn.

[Ajani]

I actually don't regard that as a checkered past. Stereophile used to be a more sensible publication that actually covered sensibly priced components, and ways that consumers could get more enjoyment out of their systems. If mass market company made a decent product, Stereophile would let its readers know. At that time, The Absolute Sound was nothing more than anti-digital propagandizing while Stereo Review often didn't even include listening tests -- Stereophile simply took the middle road and did quite well.

I think that Stereophile's evolution has more or less followed the high end audio market's move towards ultra expensive statement pieces and high priced accessories. There seems to be more orthodoxy that's governed by what people perceive as high end, as opposed to simply informing readers about what quality gear is on the market regardless of whether it comes from a "high end" company.

At one point a few years ago, Stereophile did review some budget priced mass market components, but I think many of their readers got so offended by the inclusion of $300 JBL speakers that Stereophile went back to audio porn.

Stereophile still reviews the odd truly affordable components (PSB Alpha and Paradigm Atoms for example)...

Just about a month ago, we had a big debate on the Stereophile forums about why they review so much overpriced Audio Porn and so few affordable products... the simple answer from John Atkinson (not a direct quote, cuz I'm too lazy to go dig up one): was that Stereophile sells like hotcakes and the average amount of money Stereophile readers have invested in their setups is well over $16K...

Based on that response, most of us dropped the argument about reviewing more affordable gear.

[Woochifer]

Stereophile still reviews the odd truly affordable components (PSB Alpha and Paradigm Atoms for example)...

Just about a month ago, we had a big debate on the Stereophile forums about why they review so much overpriced Audio Porn and so few affordable products... the simple answer from John Atkinson (not a direct quote, cuz I'm too lazy to go dig up one): was that Stereophile sells like hotcakes and the average amount of money Stereophile readers have invested in their setups is well over $16K...

Based on that response, most of us dropped the argument about reviewing more affordable gear.

They will review a budget component every now and then, but it inevitably comes from a small specialty company that makes other high end models. They rarely if ever review a product from a mass market company, basically ceding that market over to Sound & Vision. I recall that there was an uproar a few years ago when Stereophile reviewed an inexpensive JBL speaker. And to me, that mindset among audiophiles is a problem. I guess that with Stereophile reviewing only a limited number of components in each issue, readers want their audio porn.

This is very different from the British audio magazines, which review upwards of 100 products in each issue. They don't seem as stymied by whether Company A is perceived by readers as a "high end" company. They'll review a budget HT receiver in the same issue as a Halcro amp. OTOH, their reviews are very short, and often don't include any technical data whatsoever.

I'm still not convinced that audio brands can't afford to advertise... My suspicion is that many of them are, like Stereophile, making enough money from their niche markets that they could care less about expanding...

It's a lot more complicated than that. As cited in my JBL example, when a company decides to go mass market, they don't just add the mass market to their current sales totals. They also potentially need to subtract sales from current dealers that will drop them once they start getting in bed with mass merchandisers. Generally, regional and independent audio stores don't like to support their competitors, and would rather pick up a new specialty brand than support a company that doesn't support them. The rise of companies like Paradigm, Energy, and PSB coincided with the decline of JBL in the specialty audio market.

I'm sure that B&W and Paradigm have the money to run a few ads, but also consider that if they go toe-to-toe with Bose, then their ads would consume a far higher percentage of total revenue, since Bose's revenues are much higher overall. They might spur some sales, but the product quality might nosedive in the process along with their finances.

I wonder if these brands even care how popular Bose is or whether it is just audiopsychos who feel offended by Bose.

I don't think they care, because these audio brands have staked out their market niche, and decided that the mass market is not worth the ramp up in sales, manufacturing, and customer support. If they go mass market, they go into a completely different business model. Bose is popular because they cater to the mass merchandising distribution channels. Their competition at that level is Sony, Logitech, JVC, JBL, et al. B&W and Paradigm purposely stay out of the mass merchandising market.