Shhhhh Don't Tell Pix....Vizio is coming out with...A PLASMA!!!!

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

They are two different things, in the first instance our brains are too slow to discern
the seperate frames and they run together and make motion.
If our brains were too "fast" then we'd be sitting there waiting for all of teh frames to get there and they would be as what they are seperate frames.
I knew you were dumb, just not short yellow schoolbus dumb

I didn't say our brain was too fast stupid, I said the PROCESS was too fast for our eye/brain mechansim. And you say I am dumb, you can't even read foo.

I can.
And you say MY standards are low

Yes I did, and I am right.

I think your brains are "cobbled" together

You do not know how to think, and that is why you make these kinds of stupid statements.

No, it was what was left over after I spent my money on something more important, the people in my life. I have my priorities, something you dont have to worry about since most probably wont get near you

Your idiotness, you do not know how people interact with me, you don't know me from Adam's house cat. I think its rather ironic that a admitted dumpster diver says he has priorities. What, finding the cheapest trash he can find? Well, I hope you found yourself.

EVERYTHING is a compromise to meet a price point.
And performace relative to price is important , if you know anything you'd know THAT

Your thinking is too mass market. In the high end, products are designed for performance first, and the price is purely secondary. In the mass market its the opposite. A price point is established, and the product is created to meet that price point. Once again you are missing the detail of the discussion.

No, its a result of using a CRT for something for which it was never intended, CRT was
always meant to be a direct view device, they just dont produce enough light to work as a projection device without serious long term problems.

This is a laughable statement if I ever saw one. Can you explain what serious long term problems will exist? You have never owned a front projection system, so how do you know what issue could pop up? I have owned a Sony G-90 for the last five years, I have not had a single problem from it. Other folks have had their front projection systems for close to ten years and have had no problems. You are stinking up the room with your bull$hit.

they were a work around because there was nothing besides a film projector to meet the home viewing need.
Now their compromises arent nessesary, and when wall size OLED is in production
it will be the dominant form factor

Rediculous. Flat panels are the compromise. They sacrifice performance levels already acheived by high end CRT's(and lower end models as well) for the convience of hanging it on a wall. Flat panels do not do black, the do not reproduce the color gamut at SMPTE spec's, the cannot reproduce the grey scale accurately, they have poor response times and motion blur. What you consider is the compromise does do black, can reproduce the color gamut at SMPTE spec's, can do the grey scale accurately, does not suffer from motion blur, and has a instantaneous response. And please do not talk to me about something that has not even acheived a 20" screen size yet.

Stacked projectors have been a way for HT types to double the light output of their setup forever, go to the magazine sites and check out the archives.
It becaome more common when HD arrived, since the light output of a HD CRT is much less

Once again you are lying. I am an installer and have been so for more than 15 years. I can count on one hand the amount of installs I have done that required stacked projectors. You talk like this is the norm, and it isn't. Lie number two, HD CRT have less light than analog CRT's, more bull$hit. The Sony G-90 was built in 1997 In 1997 HDTV was almost non existant, but the G-90, the Barco 1209, and the electrohome 9500 ultra could reproduce 1080p back then. The could put out 1300 lumens in 1997 and they can put out 1300 lumens in 2008. So they could do better than HDTV back then, and 1300 lumens back then, so just when did the light output drop? Where are my boots, dude you are loaded full of cow plop.

Thats three cheap projection TV sets, two an HD(samsung and pioneer 47in models) and uncounted experience from various friends, systems at work, etc.
Unless you're over fifty you arent even CLOSE to my "experience" with CRT tech,
starting in the early seventies

Your "experience" has not translated to "knowledge", so it is essentially worthless.

Any dlp front projection set will beat the pants off of CRT in brightness, resolution, and most importantly, price.

Lie number three. I know of no DLP that can do 2500x2000(essentially 2000p)lines of information. Zero. Price is only a issue for those who count pennies. I treasure performance first, price second. DLP's suffer the same problems as all fixed panel devices do, cannot do black, cannot do greyscale, cannot reproduce the HD color gamut accurately. You get what you pay for. Brightness does not matter when you cannot do so many other things correctly.

THE FORM FACTOR that will (and is ) most practical and affordable for most is a DLP,
LCOS (or one of its derivatives) and LCD front projection, while bringing up the rear in q is still quite good.

This is the thinking of the a "good enough" person, not a "give me the best" person. DLP, LCD, and plasma are all a step backwards from my current "dinosaur" CRT RPTV. Not one of these technologies can do what my current RPTV does. I don't do good enough.

NOBODY wants a monstrosity sitting in their HT or living room and are willing to put up with the shortcomings in order to acheive miniscule improvements.

Well there must be alot of nobodies out there, because Curt Palmer who sells refurbished RPTV and front projection systems is doing booming business right now, in spite of the fact that they do not make them anymore. When you compare the performance of the typical high end projector, the flat panel is the one with the shortcomings. And you would have to own one to say its improvements are miniscule. Of course because you have always purchased cheap crap, I am sure a compromised flat panel like the vizio is an improvement for you.

If a 5,000 DLP projector will acheive 99% of what a 20,000 CRT can do you'd have to be an idiot to buy the CRT.
AND WHEN SOMETHINGS OBSOLETE it means that better is out there, you can keep using the old stuff, sure, but sooner or later it will be GONE

There is a flaw in this logic, even the best plasma, DLP or LCD cannot even come close to the performance of the Sony G-90. All you have to do is look at test spec's and one can clearly see this. You are just one bucket of lies old dude. You are just like Nightliar, will lie just for the sake of doing so. CRT's are not obsolete, they are just too big and require alot of maintainence. The only benefit a flat panel offers you over a CRT is it takes up less space. Otherwise it is a compromise when compared to a quality CRT based projector.

GLAD YOU CONCEDE MY POINT

Sorry but motion blur is visible. The effects of a slow response time are visible. The inability to do below black is visible. The inability to reproduce an accurate HD color gamut is visible. So the only point that I will concede is that you are not very bright to be so old.

your brains are flawed.
of course our broadcast tech is "flawed" , its built by human beings, however it does quite good most of the time.

So how does a flat panel correct this? It doesn't, and because of its drawbacks, it makes a compromised system even worse.

Our system used to be built around CRT tech, it was intended that that was what we'd use to translate electronic signals into light.
But that isnt the case anymore.
Interlaced broadcasting was an ingenious solution to not having enough space to put an entire signal through at once, but it was a compromise.

Since we still have a interlaced based broadcasting system, how did the change to a digital system improved the system?. A digitally based interlaced system is no better than a analog based interlaced system. It is a more complex system because digitally based signal do not travel as far as analog based transmission systems, so more repeaters are required which makes the entire system more complex.

Today we still use it for the same reason but in a different way, instead of putting together
two fields to make one interlaced frame we are putting together two frames to make one
progressive frame

That would explain 720p, but how about 1080i? In OTA broadcasting 720p is the minority, and 1080i is the majority.

More philosophy from the three stooges school of thought.
The first two years of school in electronics was frustrating, we learned about oscilators,
components like capacitors, various solid state and even tube devices.
We never touched a TV.

If that is the case, then how can you use the words of your electronics teacher if you never touched the subject? It is pretty obvious they didn't teach you about TV

Then the first week of the third year a schematic of a tv set was laid out, we were surprized to see that we understood it perfectly.
Our teacher said we had to learn the underlying , more simple concepts in order to put them together.
This is the way I still learn things, break them down to component parts
It is the only way to learn anything.

Unfortunately when you break them down, some of the little pieces are getting lost, so your ability to create a whole picture, a coherent stream of logic is completely compromised. So this explain why you skip the detail and the big picture. There is none.

An atom bomb is simply playing pool at the subatomic level,
making it happen is whats complicated

This is pretty deep for a person that is as deep as a pool of spit on a sidewalk. Do you borrow this from sombody?

What I hate to see is your childish nonsense on this page because I simply can't resist the urge to put a simpering moron with delusions of grandeur in his place.

You must be saying this in a mirror.

I know my limitations and place in the universe, just wish you'd quit trying to stand on your hind legs and exceed yours

We all know your limitations. Unfortunately we have to read about them everyday on this board. Wishing is for kids, are you starting your second childhood pixelneck?

Which proves my point, eventually there will be nothing to "refurbish", this is because the form factor is DEAD.

While they do not make CRT based television anymore, there are plenty of parts to continue refurbishing high end projection systems for years to come. Didn't you say that plasma is dead? Well, it doesn't look dead to me as long as they continue to make them. As long as I can purchase a refurbished or upgraded quality CRT projector, then it ain't dead yet.

In the future they will view this as we view a horse and buggy, while they watch their
oled screens painted on a wall using nanotech to arrange the elements

They said we would have flying cars by now, but we don't. So I'll just wait until we can view this horse and buggy arguement when the reality sets in. You'll be dead by then though.

None of this is relevant to 99% of the population, and even people in the field would have trouble discerning the difference between a five grand DLP and a fifty grand CRT
set.

There is no proof of this statement at all. I do not like so called facts that are pulled out of thin air with no proof.

Well, there is one difference, they still make and sell front projector dlp in industrial quanity
something that will never happen again with CRT, no new CRT factories will be built.

The chinese makes alot of things in quantity, that does not make them better. Most things made in quantity usually lack quality anyway.

CRT is quite gooid, it should be with armies of engineers working on it for a century,
but with all of that effort it should be better
Truth is that CRT was a nessesary evil, we used it because there was no choice.
Now theres a choice.

Flat panels are also a necessary evil. They were invented for the sake of the WAF, and not because they are a inherently better technology. I find it rather ironic that a projector that is 11 years old can outperform a "new" technology. Things that are digital are not always better than things that are analog. A just becuase something can be hung on a wall, does not make it better than something that takes up alot of space.

People who saw the first cars procclaimed them a "fad" because a good horse
could outrun them. THAT DIDNT LAST LONG.

I wasn't around when car first got here, so I do not know what folks proclaimed. You were probably around though.

My standard are "lower" than yours?Not really, I JUST LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD,
and like most cant afford thousands for a miniscule increase in performance that my fifty year old eyes probably cant detect anyway, when a 20 year old would have a problem doing so.

Your standards are lower than mine. I treasure performance over price. You treasure price over performance. A vizio flat panel would NEVER grace my hometheater because it cannot exceed the performance of my current dinosaur CRT RPTV. My eyes have absolutely no problem seeing a significant performance increase over a flat panel. You would have a problem because you cannot recognized quality of you saw it. Its all about price to you. Neither of my twenty year old sons have any problem seeing the improvement of my CRT based RPTV over the LCD panels in their rooms. That is why they are sitting in front of my set more than they sit in front of theirs.

And this is considering that CRT is better, which it isnt actually.
Face it talky, NOBODY is working on this tech anymore, its in the attic of the human race in practicallity if not quite reality just yet.
GET OVER IT.

Well Curt Palmer is still working on them, he is somebody. I know at least 10 other folks that work on them as well. Curt Palmer is always working on improvments to high end projectors, even if Sony or Ampro aren't. Nothing is not in the attic until there is not one left in use. There are millions still in use.

I really like the name Sir Talky. Its funny, much like pixelidiot, pixelpuss, pixeless, and my personal favorite because it so aptly describes you...burntoutpixel.

Looking forward to the next round old fart.

[pixelthis]

I didn't say our brain was too fast stupid, I said the PROCESS was too fast for our eye/brain mechansim. And you say I am dumb, you can't even read foo.



Yes I did, and I am right.



You do not know how to think, and that is why you make these kinds of stupid statements.




Your idiotness, you do not know how people interact with me, you don't know me from Adam's house cat. I think its rather ironic that a admitted dumpster diver says he has priorities. What, finding the cheapest trash he can find? Well, I hope you found yourself.




Your thinking is too mass market. In the high end, products are designed for performance first, and the price is purely secondary. In the mass market its the opposite. A price point is established, and the product is created to meet that price point. Once again you are missing the detail of the discussion.



This is a laughable statement if I ever saw one. Can you explain what serious long term problems will exist? You have never owned a front projection system, so how do you know what issue could pop up? I have owned a Sony G-90 for the last five years, I have not had a single problem from it. Other folks have had their front projection systems for close to ten years and have had no problems. You are stinking up the room with your bull$hit.



Rediculous. Flat panels are the compromise. They sacrifice performance levels already acheived by high end CRT's(and lower end models as well) for the convience of hanging it on a wall. Flat panels do not do black, the do not reproduce the color gamut at SMPTE spec's, the cannot reproduce the grey scale accurately, they have poor response times and motion blur. What you consider is the compromise does do black, can reproduce the color gamut at SMPTE spec's, can do the grey scale accurately, does not suffer from motion blur, and has a instantaneous response. And please do not talk to me about something that has not even acheived a 20" screen size yet.





Once again you are lying. I am an installer and have been so for more than 15 years. I can count on one hand the amount of installs I have done that required stacked projectors. You talk like this is the norm, and it isn't. Lie number two, HD CRT have less light than analog CRT's, more bull$hit. The Sony G-90 was built in 1997 In 1997 HDTV was almost non existant, but the G-90, the Barco 1209, and the electrohome 9500 ultra could reproduce 1080p back then. The could put out 1300 lumens in 1997 and they can put out 1300 lumens in 2008. So they could do better than HDTV back then, and 1300 lumens back then, so just when did the light output drop? Where are my boots, dude you are loaded full of cow plop.




Your "experience" has not translated to "knowledge", so it is essentially worthless.



Lie number three. I know of no DLP that can do 2500x2000(essentially 2000p)lines of information. Zero. Price is only a issue for those who count pennies. I treasure performance first, price second. DLP's suffer the same problems as all fixed panel devices do, cannot do black, cannot do greyscale, cannot reproduce the HD color gamut accurately. You get what you pay for. Brightness does not matter when you cannot do so many other things correctly.



This is the thinking of the a "good enough" person, not a "give me the best" person. DLP, LCD, and plasma are all a step backwards from my current "dinosaur" CRT RPTV. Not one of these technologies can do what my current RPTV does. I don't do good enough.



Well there must be alot of nobodies out there, because Curt Palmer who sells refurbished RPTV and front projection systems is doing booming business right now, in spite of the fact that they do not make them anymore. When you compare the performance of the typical high end projector, the flat panel is the one with the shortcomings. And you would have to own one to say its improvements are miniscule. Of course because you have always purchased cheap crap, I am sure a compromised flat panel like the vizio is an improvement for you.



There is a flaw in this logic, even the best plasma, DLP or LCD cannot even come close to the performance of the Sony G-90. All you have to do is look at test spec's and one can clearly see this. You are just one bucket of lies old dude. You are just like Nightliar, will lie just for the sake of doing so. CRT's are not obsolete, they are just too big and require alot of maintainence. The only benefit a flat panel offers you over a CRT is it takes up less space. Otherwise it is a compromise when compared to a quality CRT based projector.



Sorry but motion blur is visible. The effects of a slow response time are visible. The inability to do below black is visible. The inability to reproduce an accurate HD color gamut is visible. So the only point that I will concede is that you are not very bright to be so old.




So how does a flat panel correct this? It doesn't, and because of its drawbacks, it makes a compromised system even worse.



Since we still have a interlaced based broadcasting system, how did the change to a digital system improved the system?. A digitally based interlaced system is no better than a analog based interlaced system. It is a more complex system because digitally based signal do not travel as far as analog based transmission systems, so more repeaters are required which makes the entire system more complex.




That would explain 720p, but how about 1080i? In OTA broadcasting 720p is the minority, and 1080i is the majority.



If that is the case, then how can you use the words of your electronics teacher if you never touched the subject? It is pretty obvious they didn't teach you about TV



Unfortunately when you break them down, some of the little pieces are getting lost, so your ability to create a whole picture, a coherent stream of logic is completely compromised. So this explain why you skip the detail and the big picture. There is none.



This is pretty deep for a person that is as deep as a pool of spit on a sidewalk. Do you borrow this from sombody?




You must be saying this in a mirror.



We all know your limitations. Unfortunately we have to read about them everyday on this board. Wishing is for kids, are you starting your second childhood pixelneck?






While they do not make CRT based television anymore, there are plenty of parts to continue refurbishing high end projection systems for years to come. Didn't you say that plasma is dead? Well, it doesn't look dead to me as long as they continue to make them. As long as I can purchase a refurbished or upgraded quality CRT projector, then it ain't dead yet.



They said we would have flying cars by now, but we don't. So I'll just wait until we can view this horse and buggy arguement when the reality sets in. You'll be dead by then though.





There is no proof of this statement at all. I do not like so called facts that are pulled out of thin air with no proof.



The chinese makes alot of things in quantity, that does not make them better. Most things made in quantity usually lack quality anyway.



Flat panels are also a necessary evil. They were invented for the sake of the WAF, and not because they are a inherently better technology. I find it rather ironic that a projector that is 11 years old can outperform a "new" technology. Things that are digital are not always better than things that are analog. A just becuase something can be hung on a wall, does not make it better than something that takes up alot of space.



I wasn't around when car first got here, so I do not know what folks proclaimed. You were probably around though.



Your standards are lower than mine. I treasure performance over price. You treasure price over performance. A vizio flat panel would NEVER grace my hometheater because it cannot exceed the performance of my current dinosaur CRT RPTV. My eyes have absolutely no problem seeing a significant performance increase over a flat panel. You would have a problem because you cannot recognized quality of you saw it. Its all about price to you. Neither of my twenty year old sons have any problem seeing the improvement of my CRT based RPTV over the LCD panels in their rooms. That is why they are sitting in front of my set more than they sit in front of theirs.



Well Curt Palmer is still working on them, he is somebody. I know at least 10 other folks that work on them as well. Curt Palmer is always working on improvments to high end projectors, even if Sony or Ampro aren't. Nothing is not in the attic until there is not one left in use. There are millions still in use.

I really like the name Sir Talky. Its funny, much like pixelidiot, pixelpuss, pixeless, and my personal favorite because it so aptly describes you...burntoutpixel.

Looking forward to the next round old fart.

I'M NOT.
LETS SEEEE...
I could waste a few dozen minutes of my life arguing with a simpering moron about a technology that already has one foot in the grave and another on the banana peel,
but I think I'll just pop another beer instead.

IT took decades and millions of dollars but they finally taught a ape to understand
a few basic words, but thats it.
The limitations of the ape means that he will only do so good.
AND you can fiddle with old CRT tubes all you like, I HAVE A LIFE.
And no matter how much you try you will still wind up with tech that was finalized
and presented during the late 20's.
You will NEVER get phosper to produce enough light to compete with the new projectors,
and 2'000p is around the corner.
If I were you I'd be stockpiling those tubes, they will soon be in short supply.
Good news, like any obsolete tech they will sell CHEAP.
In a few years they will be gone completely, sure people are still using them, my folks still use a Sony 32in SDTV. Cant get one today.
You're like those laserdisc crazies who said DVD was a fad when it first came out.
DVD wasnt as good as laser true, but it is now, and it swept over laser like the red seas over the pharoes army.
You say you install stuff? That explains a lot.
Carrying a note on some old dinosaurs in the back room?
Well, whatever, you , like the ape in the analogy above will only be able to understand so much.
And CRT will only be able to do so much.
And I win , btw, so why keep arguing?
Why do I win? Check out the number of CRT devices out there, I'll even let you include
the 20in sanyo at Wallfart for 68$.
They are disapearing before your eyes.
I posted a thread to spur conversation, PLASMA IS DEAD, and actually, plasma wont be dead for a few years yet.
BUT CRT is already dead been that way for awhile
SO I WIN

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'M NOT.
LETS SEEEE...
I could waste a few dozen minutes of my life arguing with a simpering moron about a technology that already has one foot in the grave and another on the banana peel,
but I think I'll just pop another beer instead.

Cliche cliche. Based on what you have posted on each subject you have encroached on, you have had far too many beers already.

IT took decades and millions of dollars but they finally taught a ape to understand
a few basic words, but thats it.

What does this have to do with anything?

The limitations of the ape means that he will only do so good.
AND you can fiddle with old CRT tubes all you like, I HAVE A LIFE.
And no matter how much you try you will still wind up with tech that was finalized
and presented during the late 20's.

It was finalized, presented AND constantly improved upon since the late 20's

You will NEVER get phosper to produce enough light to compete with the new projectors,

There is no need to keep up with the new digital projector in terms of brute force brightness. Dummies believe that brightness is the end all. All you have to do is control the amount of ambient light in the room. You do that and no digital projector can compete with a high quality CRT projector. Having to control ambient light is totally necessary if you want a proper contrast ratio, and the ability to see shadow detail. Since you are a "good enough" type, getting proper contrast ratio, and having the ability to see shadow detail does not mean anything to you. So brightness probably means more to you than proper color temperature, following SMPTE standards for color gamut, proper contrast ratio, acheiving proper black levels, and a accurate greyscale.

and 2'000p is around the corner.

Yeah, if that corner is your big fat stomach. We will NEVER see 2000p because it is just not practical for home use. It costs an arm and a leg to implement(look at the Panasonic 150" at 2160p), and it requires a huge display device that will not fit in most folks home. You should probably think before you post.

If I were you I'd be stockpiling those tubes, they will soon be in short supply.

No need. There are six companies that I can count right off the top of my head that are still making and supplying high end CRT's to folks like Curt Palmer and his company. So while CRT's are no longer manufactured by the majors, several companies have made a business in keeping the millions of CRT projector sold working for years to come.

Good news, like any obsolete tech they will sell CHEAP.
In a few years they will be gone completely, sure people are still using them, my folks still use a Sony 32in SDTV. Cant get one today.

Most CRT projectors have gotten cheaper, but the well maintained high end ones are still expensive. They will not be gone completely, and stupid people just like you were saying the same things five years ago.

You're like those laserdisc crazies who said DVD was a fad when it first came out.
DVD wasnt as good as laser true, but it is now, and it swept over laser like the red seas over the pharoes army.

I didn't know you in 1997, you weren't even around here then. So how do you know what I said back then? I was just the opposite, I embraced the DVD when I saw its potential, just like I embraced both HD DVD and Bluray when they came into the picture. You seem the one to be out of touch with technology, you talk alot about it, but you don't seem to keep up with the purchase of it. I guess its tough to keep up because getting a real job would interfer with your dumpster diving.

You say you install stuff? That explains a lot.

Yeah, it explains why I know far more than you do, and you are almost sixty times older than I am.

Carrying a note on some old dinosaurs in the back room?

Actually I can post it right here, and our resident dinosaur Pixy will read it.

Well, whatever, you , like the ape in the analogy above will only be able to understand so much.

And you have shown that you understand nothing.

And CRT will only be able to do so much.

As so will Plasma, LCD, DLP and any other technology out there.

And I win , btw, so why keep arguing?
Why do I win? Check out the number of CRT devices out there, I'll even let you include
the 20in sanyo at Wallfart for 68$.

This is why I say your standards are much lower than mine. There are millions of CRT front projection based projection systems out there, and that does not include the cheap sets you so like to allude to. When you add in the cheap single tube sets, it totally dwarfs the amount of fixed panel sets out there. The only thing you "won" is the chance to take your next breath.

They are disapearing before your eyes.
I posted a thread to spur conversation, PLASMA IS DEAD, and actually, plasma wont be dead for a few years yet.
BUT CRT is already dead been that way for awhile
SO I WIN

It is apparent we are talking about different CRT devices. All of your references are aimed at the single gun cheap televisions because you have no experience with any other. You were wrong about plasma, and you are wrong about high end CRT(that is what I am referring to). Neither is dead until you cannot purchase even one of them in the mass market(plasma) or the high end after market(high end CRT's). Just because high end CRT's are off your radar, does not mean they are completely out of the picture. While single gun CRT television are not being sold, high end projection system are still being sold, still being upgraded, and still commanding a fairly high price. So you can keep chiming up like some 2 year old that you won if it makes you feel better. But in reality, only your ignorance has won anything.

Round 4 up next.

[pixelthis]

Cliche cliche. Based on what you have posted on each subject you have encroached on, you have had far too many beers already.



What does this have to do with anything?



It was finalized, presented AND constantly improved upon since the late 20's




There is no need to keep up with the new digital projector in terms of brute force brightness. Dummies believe that brightness is the end all. All you have to do is control the amount of ambient light in the room. You do that and no digital projector can compete with a high quality CRT projector. Having to control ambient light is totally necessary if you want a proper contrast ratio, and the ability to see shadow detail. Since you are a "good enough" type, getting proper contrast ratio, and having the ability to see shadow detail does not mean anything to you. So brightness probably means more to you than proper color temperature, following SMPTE standards for color gamut, proper contrast ratio, acheiving proper black levels, and a accurate greyscale.



Yeah, if that corner is your big fat stomach. We will NEVER see 2000p because it is just not practical for home use. It costs an arm and a leg to implement(look at the Panasonic 150" at 2160p), and it requires a huge display device that will not fit in most folks home. You should probably think before you post.



No need. There are six companies that I can count right off the top of my head that are still making and supplying high end CRT's to folks like Curt Palmer and his company. So while CRT's are no longer manufactured by the majors, several companies have made a business in keeping the millions of CRT projector sold working for years to come.



Most CRT projectors have gotten cheaper, but the well maintained high end ones are still expensive. They will not be gone completely, and stupid people just like you were saying the same things five years ago.



I didn't know you in 1997, you weren't even around here then. So how do you know what I said back then? I was just the opposite, I embraced the DVD when I saw its potential, just like I embraced both HD DVD and Bluray when they came into the picture. You seem the one to be out of touch with technology, you talk alot about it, but you don't seem to keep up with the purchase of it. I guess its tough to keep up because getting a real job would interfer with your dumpster diving.



Yeah, it explains why I know far more than you do, and you are almost sixty times older than I am.



Actually I can post it right here, and our resident dinosaur Pixy will read it.



And you have shown that you understand nothing.



As so will Plasma, LCD, DLP and any other technology out there.




This is why I say your standards are much lower than mine. There are millions of CRT front projection based projection systems out there, and that does not include the cheap sets you so like to allude to. When you add in the cheap single tube sets, it totally dwarfs the amount of fixed panel sets out there. The only thing you "won" is the chance to take your next breath.



It is apparent we are talking about different CRT devices. All of your references are aimed at the single gun cheap televisions because you have no experience with any other. You were wrong about plasma, and you are wrong about high end CRT(that is what I am referring to). Neither is dead until you cannot purchase even one of them in the mass market(plasma) or the high end after market(high end CRT's). Just because high end CRT's are off your radar, does not mean they are completely out of the picture. While single gun CRT television are not being sold, high end projection system are still being sold, still being upgraded, and still commanding a fairly high price. So you can keep chiming up like some 2 year old that you won if it makes you feel better. But in reality, only your ignorance has won anything.

Round 4 up next.

I'm ignorant?
You dont even understand what an analogy is (look it up)

Those fine people making "CRTs" are scavengers, they are providing for the
replacement market, and its their job to produce replacement parts when its no longer economically feasible for the "majors" to do so.
Ever though that there was a reason that the "majors" arent messing with CRT anymore, genius?
The people making crt replacement tubes will be around until there isnt a market anymore,
or its not even economical for them to make them.
Theres not going to be any more R&D, ANY MORE DESIGNERS working on crt.
only production site set up on third world rice paddies, with labor cost at 1.00 an hour, maybe.
This massive market for front projection CRT exists only in one place, YOUR HEAD.
And that is the only thing that exists in there.
There is a very small market for a HT that has to be viewed in the dark, such a setup is good for one thing only, movies.
Most want to invite people over to watch the game, or are irked at the thought of paying thousands for something with limited use.
The drawbacks of the new type projectors are tiny when compared to the advantages,
very few if any can tell the difference.
So sit in your dark little cave and enjpy yopurself, hope you dont get too lonely

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'm ignorant?
You dont even understand what an analogy is (look it up)

You do not know what I understand, and what I don't. Stick to what you know, and that shouldn't be much.

Those fine people making "CRTs" are scavengers, they are providing for the
replacement market, and its their job to produce replacement parts when its no longer economically feasible for the "majors" to do so.

It does not matter how it is being done, the fact is, its being done. The whole audio and video world does not revovle around what the majors do. The majors don't support high resolution music on Bluray, but it there.

Ever though that there was a reason that the "majors" arent messing with CRT anymore, genius?

The reason the major aren't messing with CRT's anymore (at least the high end) has nothing to do with performance. It the WAF and that is it. If panels where so great, then why are they chasing the high end CRT market in performance of black levels, greyscale tracking, contrast, instantaneous response, and getting the HD color gamut correct? Why does every mastering house in Hollywood and New York use HD CRT displays for mastering high definition titles? That quality that you see on bluray disc is largely because of the high quality of the display they use to master and author titles for release. There are no flat panels being used for mastering, and there is a reason for that.

The people making crt replacement tubes will be around until there isnt a market anymore,
or its not even economical for them to make them.

Exactly. But you said it was dead, and it is not, not by any stretch of the imagination.

Theres not going to be any more R&D, ANY MORE DESIGNERS working on crt.
only production site set up on third world rice paddies, with labor cost at 1.00 an hour, maybe.

But you are wrong again. Curt Palmer does do R&D on high end CRT projector and RPTV. He has added HDMI inputs to projectors when none had them. He has updated convergence software, provides special color correcting lenses, has created dozens of tweaks, and the list goes on. He has done two upgrades to my G-90 that has noticeably increased performance in several areas. He has essentially taken over where the majors have left off.

This massive market for front projection CRT exists only in one place, YOUR HEAD.
And that is the only thing that exists in there.

This is why I say you are ignorant as hell. There is a whole world that exists outside of your dumpster diving life, and you do not know it. However you feel that you can make educated comments on things you know nothing about, and are willing to dismiss what you cannot see in your world. You life is a small as that little brain of yours. I never said there was a "massive" market for high end CRT. I said that it wasn't dead stupid. Only a uneducated fool goes to these kinds of extremes to make a point.

There is a very small market for a HT that has to be viewed in the dark, such a setup is good for one thing only, movies.

Or really? What prevents you from watching HD from OTA? What prevents you from watching HD from cable except that it looks like crap? Nothing, its a display device that can be used to watch anything that you want on it. This is the limitations of your thinking, and the crust of your ignorance.

Most want to invite people over to watch the game, or are irked at the thought of paying thousands for something with limited use.

I have watch the superbowl with my G-90 so this statement at best is ignorant as hell.

The drawbacks of the new type projectors are tiny when compared to the advantages,
very few if any can tell the difference.
So sit in your dark little cave and enjpy yopurself, hope you dont get too lonely

The drawbacks of the newer projectors is tiny when "good enough" is your way of thinking. But us "performance first" folks find the drawback so irritating and hard to miss, we keep our high performance dinosaurs. The day that I can purchase a projector that can do blacker than black on the pluge pattern, the day that motion blur disappears, the day the HD color gamut is reproduced accurately over the projectors range is the day that I will trade in both of my high performance dinosaurs for that projector. Until then, you just keep dumpster diving with your "good enough" perspective. As I have stated, your standards are much lower than mine are.

Its hard to get lonely when everyone if fighting over who looks at blurays on the high performance dinosaur.

I think you are jealous that you cannot afford anything more than a 37" vizio, that is why you talk up flat panel so much. It makes you feel better.

[pixelthis]

You do not know what I understand, and what I don't. Stick to what you know, and that shouldn't be much.



It does not matter how it is being done, the fact is, its being done. The whole audio and video world does not revovle around what the majors do. The majors don't support high resolution music on Bluray, but it there.



The reason the major aren't messing with CRT's anymore (at least the high end) has nothing to do with performance. It the WAF and that is it. If panels where so great, then why are they chasing the high end CRT market in performance of black levels, greyscale tracking, contrast, instantaneous response, and getting the HD color gamut correct? Why does every mastering house in Hollywood and New York use HD CRT displays for mastering high definition titles? That quality that you see on bluray disc is largely because of the high quality of the display they use to master and author titles for release. There are no flat panels being used for mastering, and there is a reason for that.



Exactly. But you said it was dead, and it is not, not by any stretch of the imagination.



But you are wrong again. Curt Palmer does do R&D on high end CRT projector and RPTV. He has added HDMI inputs to projectors when none had them. He has updated convergence software, provides special color correcting lenses, has created dozens of tweaks, and the list goes on. He has done two upgrades to my G-90 that has noticeably increased performance in several areas. He has essentially taken over where the majors have left off.



This is why I say you are ignorant as hell. There is a whole world that exists outside of your dumpster diving life, and you do not know it. However you feel that you can make educated comments on things you know nothing about, and are willing to dismiss what you cannot see in your world. You life is a small as that little brain of yours. I never said there was a "massive" market for high end CRT. I said that it wasn't dead stupid. Only a uneducated fool goes to these kinds of extremes to make a point.



Or really? What prevents you from watching HD from OTA? What prevents you from watching HD from cable except that it looks like crap? Nothing, its a display device that can be used to watch anything that you want on it. This is the limitations of your thinking, and the crust of your ignorance.



I have watch the superbowl with my G-90 so this statement at best is ignorant as hell.



The drawbacks of the newer projectors is tiny when "good enough" is your way of thinking. But us "performance first" folks find the drawback so irritating and hard to miss, we keep our high performance dinosaurs. The day that I can purchase a projector that can do blacker than black on the pluge pattern, the day that motion blur disappears, the day the HD color gamut is reproduced accurately over the projectors range is the day that I will trade in both of my high performance dinosaurs for that projector. Until then, you just keep dumpster diving with your "good enough" perspective. As I have stated, your standards are much lower than mine are.

Its hard to get lonely when everyone if fighting over who looks at blurays on the high performance dinosaur.

I think you are jealous that you cannot afford anything more than a 37" vizio, that is why you talk up flat panel so much. It makes you feel better.

You prefer the picture of your dinosaur.
Thats fine, some still like to ride horses.
Horses any car can outrun.
Whether or not I can "afford" an antique monstrosity with a lifespan of a few years is
irrelavant, point is I'd be stupid to buy one.
THEY can make a display with 2,000 p, why not get one of those?
A rousch porsch has to be certified to go 200 mph before it can be sold, why not buy one of those? GET some real value for your money.
And I HAVENT BEEN "TALKING UP FLAT PANEL", I have been talking about display projectors, primarily DLP and LCOS, the future, btw.
THESE PROJECTORS HAVE 99% OF THE PERFORMANCE
of one of your "dinosaurs" at a fraction of the price.
I am talking about real world tech, stuff that people with lives can afford,
and that will beat the pants off of your crt dinos in real world conditions.
Is one of your dinos "better" at black level by .001 %?
WHO CARES.
I certainly dont, and that doesnt make me a compromiser, because I AM already
a compromiser, everybody is.
There is a certain point of deminishing returns that it becomes rediculous to keep pouring
massive sums of money into something for smaller and smaller returns.
Most get as much performance as they can afford, but sooner or later all
begin to question spending thousands for tiny increments of improvement.
You have a great system if you have a ton of money to waste and are hermit that
borders on autistic.
Have fun sitting in that "cave" of yours

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

You prefer the picture of your dinosaur.

This is correct. I prefer it because it looks better than any of the flat panel out there, not to mention beats them in every performance catagory that is important for getting high quality images.

Thats fine, some still like to ride horses.
Horses any car can outrun.
Whether or not I can "afford" an antique monstrosity with a lifespan of a few years is
irrelavant, point is I'd be stupid to buy one.

You shouldn't have any problem getting used to a antique monstrosity, you are one. CRT of all kinds have a longer track record on the market than any flat panel. So to say that it has a life span of only a few years shows more ignorance than your last responses. A friend of mine's plasma pooped out after only two years of use. My grandmother is still sporting a RCA brand single tube CRT she has had for more than twenty years.

You would be stupid to buy a high end projection system. Performance is not your bag, how cheap something is fits you much better.

THEY can make a display with 2,000 p, why not get one of those?

A display that does 2000p would be far larger and monstrous than my current RPTV and G-90. If you are wailing about the size of the device(I believe you have used monstrous several times about my CRT based RPTV) then this would defeat the purpose. If it takes 150", and the inablility of getting the display in my hometheater to get 2160p, it would take something just a "little" smaller(and I mean just a little smaller) to get enough pixels to do 2000p. 2000p is not made for the home just for that reason, it would take a huge device to get enough pixel on the screen to do 2000p. You should know this, you claim to know more than anyone else around here.

A rousch porsch has to be certified to go 200 mph before it can be sold, why not buy one of those? GET some real value for your money.

I thought we were talking about display devices. How did we get to cars? You wander in your discussion far too much.

And I HAVENT BEEN "TALKING UP FLAT PANEL", I have been talking about display projectors, primarily DLP and LCOS, the future, btw.
THESE PROJECTORS HAVE 99% OF THE PERFORMANCE

Sorry, but you know not what you speak old fool. There is no digital projector out there that does anywhere close to 2000x2500 lines of clean clear information. ZERO! There are no digital display devices that do a TRUE 20,000:1 constrast ratio. Even the best consumer based digital projector out there barely does 8,000:1, and it highly depends on how you measure it. NONE of the digital projectors display the proper color gamut for HD images. All digital projectors have motion and blur problems. DLP still has rainbow problems that I can clearly see, even the more expensive ones have it. Even the most expensive LCD projector still presents black as grey, even though JVC rsp1 comes closer to doing black that I have seen out of any digital projector. So before you pull a number like 99% to describe how close they are in performance, you need to actually compare, which is something you haven't done, and I have. You have NO experience with high end CRT's, you are just using your experience with cheap single gun CRT's as your reference. You have not seen all that many digital projectors out there or you wouldn't be making these outrageous claims on their performance. Digital projection is getting better and better each year, but it still has quite a ways to go to catch up with high end CRT based projection system. Even Joe Kane admits that, are you going to challenge his word as well?

of one of your "dinosaurs" at a fraction of the price.
I am talking about real world tech, stuff that people with lives can afford,
and that will beat the pants off of your crt dinos in real world conditions.

Man, you just continue to lie and lie just to stay in the game. As I have explained above, there is currently no parimeter that these new digital projectors beat a high end CRT based projector. There is no $5,000 dollar digital projector than looks better (except for sharpness) than a Sony G-90 or an electrohome 9500. NONE. There is no $10,000 projector who performance exceeds the G-90 or the 9500. From what I have seen out there, you would have to spend upwards of $60,000 dollars on a 2k or 4k digital projector to even come close, but you still have black level problems. The single chip digital display are not even in the same ballpark as a three gun high end CRT projector. The three chip digital displays come close, but are far more expensive than a high end CRT projector.

When you talk of displays that YOU can afford, there is nothing out there that would even compete with a data grade CRT projector let alone a graghics grade one.

Is one of your dinos "better" at black level by .001 %?

Well, one of my dino does 30,000:1 measured, the other 25,000:1. That is easily below black on the pluge pattern. The best measured digital display I have seen is a $60,000 Sony 4K projector that does 20,000:1. It does it without the auto iris found on most digital displays to help them get better black levels. There is nothing out there below $20,000 that comes close to either of these two measurements. So I think its is quite a bit better than .001%. Just throwing out these abstract numbers shows just how ignorant you are on this issue.

WHO CARES.
I certainly dont, and that doesnt make me a compromiser, because I AM already
a compromiser, everybody is.

You are a huge compromiser if you would take a cheap a$$ digital projector over a high end CRT projector. Performance is not your bag, price is. That is the driving factor for you. You will compromise every area of display performance just to save a buck. I am not that guy. I will pay for performance gains, only if they offer a visual or audible improvement. I do not buy just for the sake of expensive, but I will buy an expensive piece of eqiupment if it is the best my dollar can buy. This is why I say your ceiling is my floor.

There is a certain point of deminishing returns that it becomes rediculous to keep pouring
massive sums of money into something for smaller and smaller returns.

This is where your arguement is getting twisted. I have already purchased my stuff, so I am not pouring money anywhere. I bought high quality stuff from the get go, stuff that is upgradeable either via firmware, or pull out modules like my video processors have. I bought my G-90 several years ago, and the upgrades to it have cost me next to nothing. Each and every upgrade I that was done produced visual results, so its money well spent. When the performance of the digital projectors catches up with my setup, I will go with the digital display. That is what folks that like the best images on their screens do. Until it catches up, I will enjoy my dinos, upgrades and all.

Most get as much performance as they can afford, but sooner or later all
begin to question spending thousands for tiny increments of improvement.

Well, when I begin to spend thousands and thousands on improvements, then we can talk. But the improvements I have done have not cost anywhere near that amount. This is why I know that you do not know anything about CRT's beyond the cheap single gun type.

You have a great system if you have a ton of money to waste and are hermit that
borders on autistic.
Have fun sitting in that "cave" of yours

This smacks of pure jealousy, and is laughable. You are just a mediocre person, with mediocre taste, with no understanding of the value of performance, or any idea of what performance is except what you TALK about rather than own.

Let's face it pixelass, you have seen a few cheap digital projectors and think they are the end all. I have been researching projectors of all kinds for the last six to seven months for my studio. You have been hear talking about them, while I have been actually viewing them. You talk about how good you THINK they are, but I have seen them measured and compared against each other. What you need to do if you are going to have this discussion with me is to get off of your fat cheap a$$, look at a properly calibrated and tweaked G-90 or 9500, and go and compare that to any projector costing what you think is reasonable. That would be alot more productive and informative than just sitting on your fat old ignorant a$$ throwing out abstract percentages and numbers, and making stupid claims that are not supported by fact and measurements.