Shhhhh Don't Tell Pix....Vizio is coming out with...A PLASMA!!!!

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'm ignorant?
You dont even understand what an analogy is (look it up)

You do not know what I understand, and what I don't. Stick to what you know, and that shouldn't be much.

Those fine people making "CRTs" are scavengers, they are providing for the
replacement market, and its their job to produce replacement parts when its no longer economically feasible for the "majors" to do so.

It does not matter how it is being done, the fact is, its being done. The whole audio and video world does not revovle around what the majors do. The majors don't support high resolution music on Bluray, but it there.

Ever though that there was a reason that the "majors" arent messing with CRT anymore, genius?

The reason the major aren't messing with CRT's anymore (at least the high end) has nothing to do with performance. It the WAF and that is it. If panels where so great, then why are they chasing the high end CRT market in performance of black levels, greyscale tracking, contrast, instantaneous response, and getting the HD color gamut correct? Why does every mastering house in Hollywood and New York use HD CRT displays for mastering high definition titles? That quality that you see on bluray disc is largely because of the high quality of the display they use to master and author titles for release. There are no flat panels being used for mastering, and there is a reason for that.

The people making crt replacement tubes will be around until there isnt a market anymore,
or its not even economical for them to make them.

Exactly. But you said it was dead, and it is not, not by any stretch of the imagination.

Theres not going to be any more R&D, ANY MORE DESIGNERS working on crt.
only production site set up on third world rice paddies, with labor cost at 1.00 an hour, maybe.

But you are wrong again. Curt Palmer does do R&D on high end CRT projector and RPTV. He has added HDMI inputs to projectors when none had them. He has updated convergence software, provides special color correcting lenses, has created dozens of tweaks, and the list goes on. He has done two upgrades to my G-90 that has noticeably increased performance in several areas. He has essentially taken over where the majors have left off.

This massive market for front projection CRT exists only in one place, YOUR HEAD.
And that is the only thing that exists in there.

This is why I say you are ignorant as hell. There is a whole world that exists outside of your dumpster diving life, and you do not know it. However you feel that you can make educated comments on things you know nothing about, and are willing to dismiss what you cannot see in your world. You life is a small as that little brain of yours. I never said there was a "massive" market for high end CRT. I said that it wasn't dead stupid. Only a uneducated fool goes to these kinds of extremes to make a point.

There is a very small market for a HT that has to be viewed in the dark, such a setup is good for one thing only, movies.

Or really? What prevents you from watching HD from OTA? What prevents you from watching HD from cable except that it looks like crap? Nothing, its a display device that can be used to watch anything that you want on it. This is the limitations of your thinking, and the crust of your ignorance.

Most want to invite people over to watch the game, or are irked at the thought of paying thousands for something with limited use.

I have watch the superbowl with my G-90 so this statement at best is ignorant as hell.

The drawbacks of the new type projectors are tiny when compared to the advantages,
very few if any can tell the difference.
So sit in your dark little cave and enjpy yopurself, hope you dont get too lonely

The drawbacks of the newer projectors is tiny when "good enough" is your way of thinking. But us "performance first" folks find the drawback so irritating and hard to miss, we keep our high performance dinosaurs. The day that I can purchase a projector that can do blacker than black on the pluge pattern, the day that motion blur disappears, the day the HD color gamut is reproduced accurately over the projectors range is the day that I will trade in both of my high performance dinosaurs for that projector. Until then, you just keep dumpster diving with your "good enough" perspective. As I have stated, your standards are much lower than mine are.

Its hard to get lonely when everyone if fighting over who looks at blurays on the high performance dinosaur.

I think you are jealous that you cannot afford anything more than a 37" vizio, that is why you talk up flat panel so much. It makes you feel better.

[pixelthis]

You do not know what I understand, and what I don't. Stick to what you know, and that shouldn't be much.



It does not matter how it is being done, the fact is, its being done. The whole audio and video world does not revovle around what the majors do. The majors don't support high resolution music on Bluray, but it there.



The reason the major aren't messing with CRT's anymore (at least the high end) has nothing to do with performance. It the WAF and that is it. If panels where so great, then why are they chasing the high end CRT market in performance of black levels, greyscale tracking, contrast, instantaneous response, and getting the HD color gamut correct? Why does every mastering house in Hollywood and New York use HD CRT displays for mastering high definition titles? That quality that you see on bluray disc is largely because of the high quality of the display they use to master and author titles for release. There are no flat panels being used for mastering, and there is a reason for that.



Exactly. But you said it was dead, and it is not, not by any stretch of the imagination.



But you are wrong again. Curt Palmer does do R&D on high end CRT projector and RPTV. He has added HDMI inputs to projectors when none had them. He has updated convergence software, provides special color correcting lenses, has created dozens of tweaks, and the list goes on. He has done two upgrades to my G-90 that has noticeably increased performance in several areas. He has essentially taken over where the majors have left off.



This is why I say you are ignorant as hell. There is a whole world that exists outside of your dumpster diving life, and you do not know it. However you feel that you can make educated comments on things you know nothing about, and are willing to dismiss what you cannot see in your world. You life is a small as that little brain of yours. I never said there was a "massive" market for high end CRT. I said that it wasn't dead stupid. Only a uneducated fool goes to these kinds of extremes to make a point.



Or really? What prevents you from watching HD from OTA? What prevents you from watching HD from cable except that it looks like crap? Nothing, its a display device that can be used to watch anything that you want on it. This is the limitations of your thinking, and the crust of your ignorance.



I have watch the superbowl with my G-90 so this statement at best is ignorant as hell.



The drawbacks of the newer projectors is tiny when "good enough" is your way of thinking. But us "performance first" folks find the drawback so irritating and hard to miss, we keep our high performance dinosaurs. The day that I can purchase a projector that can do blacker than black on the pluge pattern, the day that motion blur disappears, the day the HD color gamut is reproduced accurately over the projectors range is the day that I will trade in both of my high performance dinosaurs for that projector. Until then, you just keep dumpster diving with your "good enough" perspective. As I have stated, your standards are much lower than mine are.

Its hard to get lonely when everyone if fighting over who looks at blurays on the high performance dinosaur.

I think you are jealous that you cannot afford anything more than a 37" vizio, that is why you talk up flat panel so much. It makes you feel better.

You prefer the picture of your dinosaur.
Thats fine, some still like to ride horses.
Horses any car can outrun.
Whether or not I can "afford" an antique monstrosity with a lifespan of a few years is
irrelavant, point is I'd be stupid to buy one.
THEY can make a display with 2,000 p, why not get one of those?
A rousch porsch has to be certified to go 200 mph before it can be sold, why not buy one of those? GET some real value for your money.
And I HAVENT BEEN "TALKING UP FLAT PANEL", I have been talking about display projectors, primarily DLP and LCOS, the future, btw.
THESE PROJECTORS HAVE 99% OF THE PERFORMANCE
of one of your "dinosaurs" at a fraction of the price.
I am talking about real world tech, stuff that people with lives can afford,
and that will beat the pants off of your crt dinos in real world conditions.
Is one of your dinos "better" at black level by .001 %?
WHO CARES.
I certainly dont, and that doesnt make me a compromiser, because I AM already
a compromiser, everybody is.
There is a certain point of deminishing returns that it becomes rediculous to keep pouring
massive sums of money into something for smaller and smaller returns.
Most get as much performance as they can afford, but sooner or later all
begin to question spending thousands for tiny increments of improvement.
You have a great system if you have a ton of money to waste and are hermit that
borders on autistic.
Have fun sitting in that "cave" of yours

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

You prefer the picture of your dinosaur.

This is correct. I prefer it because it looks better than any of the flat panel out there, not to mention beats them in every performance catagory that is important for getting high quality images.

Thats fine, some still like to ride horses.
Horses any car can outrun.
Whether or not I can "afford" an antique monstrosity with a lifespan of a few years is
irrelavant, point is I'd be stupid to buy one.

You shouldn't have any problem getting used to a antique monstrosity, you are one. CRT of all kinds have a longer track record on the market than any flat panel. So to say that it has a life span of only a few years shows more ignorance than your last responses. A friend of mine's plasma pooped out after only two years of use. My grandmother is still sporting a RCA brand single tube CRT she has had for more than twenty years.

You would be stupid to buy a high end projection system. Performance is not your bag, how cheap something is fits you much better.

THEY can make a display with 2,000 p, why not get one of those?

A display that does 2000p would be far larger and monstrous than my current RPTV and G-90. If you are wailing about the size of the device(I believe you have used monstrous several times about my CRT based RPTV) then this would defeat the purpose. If it takes 150", and the inablility of getting the display in my hometheater to get 2160p, it would take something just a "little" smaller(and I mean just a little smaller) to get enough pixels to do 2000p. 2000p is not made for the home just for that reason, it would take a huge device to get enough pixel on the screen to do 2000p. You should know this, you claim to know more than anyone else around here.

A rousch porsch has to be certified to go 200 mph before it can be sold, why not buy one of those? GET some real value for your money.

I thought we were talking about display devices. How did we get to cars? You wander in your discussion far too much.

And I HAVENT BEEN "TALKING UP FLAT PANEL", I have been talking about display projectors, primarily DLP and LCOS, the future, btw.
THESE PROJECTORS HAVE 99% OF THE PERFORMANCE

Sorry, but you know not what you speak old fool. There is no digital projector out there that does anywhere close to 2000x2500 lines of clean clear information. ZERO! There are no digital display devices that do a TRUE 20,000:1 constrast ratio. Even the best consumer based digital projector out there barely does 8,000:1, and it highly depends on how you measure it. NONE of the digital projectors display the proper color gamut for HD images. All digital projectors have motion and blur problems. DLP still has rainbow problems that I can clearly see, even the more expensive ones have it. Even the most expensive LCD projector still presents black as grey, even though JVC rsp1 comes closer to doing black that I have seen out of any digital projector. So before you pull a number like 99% to describe how close they are in performance, you need to actually compare, which is something you haven't done, and I have. You have NO experience with high end CRT's, you are just using your experience with cheap single gun CRT's as your reference. You have not seen all that many digital projectors out there or you wouldn't be making these outrageous claims on their performance. Digital projection is getting better and better each year, but it still has quite a ways to go to catch up with high end CRT based projection system. Even Joe Kane admits that, are you going to challenge his word as well?

of one of your "dinosaurs" at a fraction of the price.
I am talking about real world tech, stuff that people with lives can afford,
and that will beat the pants off of your crt dinos in real world conditions.

Man, you just continue to lie and lie just to stay in the game. As I have explained above, there is currently no parimeter that these new digital projectors beat a high end CRT based projector. There is no $5,000 dollar digital projector than looks better (except for sharpness) than a Sony G-90 or an electrohome 9500. NONE. There is no $10,000 projector who performance exceeds the G-90 or the 9500. From what I have seen out there, you would have to spend upwards of $60,000 dollars on a 2k or 4k digital projector to even come close, but you still have black level problems. The single chip digital display are not even in the same ballpark as a three gun high end CRT projector. The three chip digital displays come close, but are far more expensive than a high end CRT projector.

When you talk of displays that YOU can afford, there is nothing out there that would even compete with a data grade CRT projector let alone a graghics grade one.

Is one of your dinos "better" at black level by .001 %?

Well, one of my dino does 30,000:1 measured, the other 25,000:1. That is easily below black on the pluge pattern. The best measured digital display I have seen is a $60,000 Sony 4K projector that does 20,000:1. It does it without the auto iris found on most digital displays to help them get better black levels. There is nothing out there below $20,000 that comes close to either of these two measurements. So I think its is quite a bit better than .001%. Just throwing out these abstract numbers shows just how ignorant you are on this issue.

WHO CARES.
I certainly dont, and that doesnt make me a compromiser, because I AM already
a compromiser, everybody is.

You are a huge compromiser if you would take a cheap a$$ digital projector over a high end CRT projector. Performance is not your bag, price is. That is the driving factor for you. You will compromise every area of display performance just to save a buck. I am not that guy. I will pay for performance gains, only if they offer a visual or audible improvement. I do not buy just for the sake of expensive, but I will buy an expensive piece of eqiupment if it is the best my dollar can buy. This is why I say your ceiling is my floor.

There is a certain point of deminishing returns that it becomes rediculous to keep pouring
massive sums of money into something for smaller and smaller returns.

This is where your arguement is getting twisted. I have already purchased my stuff, so I am not pouring money anywhere. I bought high quality stuff from the get go, stuff that is upgradeable either via firmware, or pull out modules like my video processors have. I bought my G-90 several years ago, and the upgrades to it have cost me next to nothing. Each and every upgrade I that was done produced visual results, so its money well spent. When the performance of the digital projectors catches up with my setup, I will go with the digital display. That is what folks that like the best images on their screens do. Until it catches up, I will enjoy my dinos, upgrades and all.

Most get as much performance as they can afford, but sooner or later all
begin to question spending thousands for tiny increments of improvement.

Well, when I begin to spend thousands and thousands on improvements, then we can talk. But the improvements I have done have not cost anywhere near that amount. This is why I know that you do not know anything about CRT's beyond the cheap single gun type.

You have a great system if you have a ton of money to waste and are hermit that
borders on autistic.
Have fun sitting in that "cave" of yours

This smacks of pure jealousy, and is laughable. You are just a mediocre person, with mediocre taste, with no understanding of the value of performance, or any idea of what performance is except what you TALK about rather than own.

Let's face it pixelass, you have seen a few cheap digital projectors and think they are the end all. I have been researching projectors of all kinds for the last six to seven months for my studio. You have been hear talking about them, while I have been actually viewing them. You talk about how good you THINK they are, but I have seen them measured and compared against each other. What you need to do if you are going to have this discussion with me is to get off of your fat cheap a$$, look at a properly calibrated and tweaked G-90 or 9500, and go and compare that to any projector costing what you think is reasonable. That would be alot more productive and informative than just sitting on your fat old ignorant a$$ throwing out abstract percentages and numbers, and making stupid claims that are not supported by fact and measurements.

[pixelthis]

This is correct. I prefer it because it looks better than any of the flat panel out there, not to mention beats them in every performance catagory that is important for getting high quality images.



You shouldn't have any problem getting used to a antique monstrosity, you are one. CRT of all kinds have a longer track record on the market than any flat panel. So to say that it has a life span of only a few years shows more ignorance than your last responses. A friend of mine's plasma pooped out after only two years of use. My grandmother is still sporting a RCA brand single tube CRT she has had for more than twenty years.

You would be stupid to buy a high end projection system. Performance is not your bag, how cheap something is fits you much better.




A display that does 2000p would be far larger and monstrous than my current RPTV and G-90. If you are wailing about the size of the device(I believe you have used monstrous several times about my CRT based RPTV) then this would defeat the purpose. If it takes 150", and the inablility of getting the display in my hometheater to get 2160p, it would take something just a "little" smaller(and I mean just a little smaller) to get enough pixels to do 2000p. 2000p is not made for the home just for that reason, it would take a huge device to get enough pixel on the screen to do 2000p. You should know this, you claim to know more than anyone else around here.



I thought we were talking about display devices. How did we get to cars? You wander in your discussion far too much.



Sorry, but you know not what you speak old fool. There is no digital projector out there that does anywhere close to 2000x2500 lines of clean clear information. ZERO! There are no digital display devices that do a TRUE 20,000:1 constrast ratio. Even the best consumer based digital projector out there barely does 8,000:1, and it highly depends on how you measure it. NONE of the digital projectors display the proper color gamut for HD images. All digital projectors have motion and blur problems. DLP still has rainbow problems that I can clearly see, even the more expensive ones have it. Even the most expensive LCD projector still presents black as grey, even though JVC rsp1 comes closer to doing black that I have seen out of any digital projector. So before you pull a number like 99% to describe how close they are in performance, you need to actually compare, which is something you haven't done, and I have. You have NO experience with high end CRT's, you are just using your experience with cheap single gun CRT's as your reference. You have not seen all that many digital projectors out there or you wouldn't be making these outrageous claims on their performance. Digital projection is getting better and better each year, but it still has quite a ways to go to catch up with high end CRT based projection system. Even Joe Kane admits that, are you going to challenge his word as well?



Man, you just continue to lie and lie just to stay in the game. As I have explained above, there is currently no parimeter that these new digital projectors beat a high end CRT based projector. There is no $5,000 dollar digital projector than looks better (except for sharpness) than a Sony G-90 or an electrohome 9500. NONE. There is no $10,000 projector who performance exceeds the G-90 or the 9500. From what I have seen out there, you would have to spend upwards of $60,000 dollars on a 2k or 4k digital projector to even come close, but you still have black level problems. The single chip digital display are not even in the same ballpark as a three gun high end CRT projector. The three chip digital displays come close, but are far more expensive than a high end CRT projector.

When you talk of displays that YOU can afford, there is nothing out there that would even compete with a data grade CRT projector let alone a graghics grade one.



Well, one of my dino does 30,000:1 measured, the other 25,000:1. That is easily below black on the pluge pattern. The best measured digital display I have seen is a $60,000 Sony 4K projector that does 20,000:1. It does it without the auto iris found on most digital displays to help them get better black levels. There is nothing out there below $20,000 that comes close to either of these two measurements. So I think its is quite a bit better than .001%. Just throwing out these abstract numbers shows just how ignorant you are on this issue.



You are a huge compromiser if you would take a cheap a$$ digital projector over a high end CRT projector. Performance is not your bag, price is. That is the driving factor for you. You will compromise every area of display performance just to save a buck. I am not that guy. I will pay for performance gains, only if they offer a visual or audible improvement. I do not buy just for the sake of expensive, but I will buy an expensive piece of eqiupment if it is the best my dollar can buy. This is why I say your ceiling is my floor.



This is where your arguement is getting twisted. I have already purchased my stuff, so I am not pouring money anywhere. I bought high quality stuff from the get go, stuff that is upgradeable either via firmware, or pull out modules like my video processors have. I bought my G-90 several years ago, and the upgrades to it have cost me next to nothing. Each and every upgrade I that was done produced visual results, so its money well spent. When the performance of the digital projectors catches up with my setup, I will go with the digital display. That is what folks that like the best images on their screens do. Until it catches up, I will enjoy my dinos, upgrades and all.



Well, when I begin to spend thousands and thousands on improvements, then we can talk. But the improvements I have done have not cost anywhere near that amount. This is why I know that you do not know anything about CRT's beyond the cheap single gun type.



This smacks of pure jealousy, and is laughable. You are just a mediocre person, with mediocre taste, with no understanding of the value of performance, or any idea of what performance is except what you TALK about rather than own.

Let's face it pixelass, you have seen a few cheap digital projectors and think they are the end all. I have been researching projectors of all kinds for the last six to seven months for my studio. You have been hear talking about them, while I have been actually viewing them. You talk about how good you THINK they are, but I have seen them measured and compared against each other. What you need to do if you are going to have this discussion with me is to get off of your fat cheap a$$, look at a properly calibrated and tweaked G-90 or 9500, and go and compare that to any projector costing what you think is reasonable. That would be alot more productive and informative than just sitting on your fat old ignorant a$$ throwing out abstract percentages and numbers, and making stupid claims that are not supported by fact and measurements.

If you are pathetic enough of a human being that its important for someone to be "jealous"
of your antique crap , then thats sad, really.
YEAH, a CRT front projector is the ultimate, yeah, right, that is why NO one makes em anymore.
And dont hand me that "good enough" crap, that is a cop out to justify YOUR stupid decisions, like spending a small fortune on something that has ONE USE, sitting in the dark and watching a friggin movie, thats IT.
well, maybe you can play a CD.
You just dont GET it, a .00001 improvement in black level isnt enough of a justification
to spend thousands on a one function device, that will sit unused most of the time.
The point I am trying to make is that your so called "quest" for "perfection" is a rationalization, a way to justify spending a fortune on crap, when the real reason is that you are afraid of change, like those turntable and tube loonies, you are scared of the future,
you spent your life investing in a certain way of doing things and now thats GONE,
AND IT WONT BE COMING BACK.
sad, really

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

If you are pathetic enough of a human being that its important for someone to be "jealous"

Who said it was important? I just stated an observation. I think its pathetic that you are jealous.

of your antique crap , then thats sad, really.
YEAH, a CRT front projector is the ultimate, yeah, right, that is why NO one makes em anymore.

Unlike yourself, I am not the sheeple type. I do not follow what the masses do. That is systemic of a person who cannot think for himself, or at all. You are the sheeple type, the cheap sheeple type. You do things just because everyone else is doing it, but you do it on the cheap. It doesn't matter that they don't make them anymore, you can still find them, and they still outperform digital projectors out there on the market. If that was not so, then Curt Palmer's company and other like his would not exist.

And dont hand me that "good enough" crap, that is a cop out to justify YOUR stupid decisions, like spending a small fortune on something that has ONE USE, sitting in the dark and watching a friggin movie, thats IT.

Look stupid old man, I do not have to prove anything to anyone. I do not have to justify anything to anyone. I make my decision based on my research, not sitting in a chair in the backwoods with one tooth in my mouth, and a coors beer in my hand. You do not know what I have spent, you do not know how much these things cost anymore. This ONE USE arguement is a red herring. I can watch anything on my projector that anyone else can watch on theirs. The digital projectors are nothing more than a digital implementation of projection television, and CRT's are analog. What are you stupid? Do you think that digital projection has some magic feature that allows it to project something that cannot be projected with a CRT based projection system? You ignorance is profound pixelstupid.

You just dont GET it, a .00001 improvement in black level isnt enough of a justification
to spend thousands on a one function device, that will sit unused most of the time.

There you go again with throwing out abstract numbers again. Pixelfoo, you cannot try and fill in the blanks of your ignorance with abstract information. Its not just an improvement in black levels, can't you read? Its improvement in contrast level, black levels, more accurate color gamut, the ability to be tweaked for higher resolutions. Part of the problems with color accuracy on the digital projectors stems from the fact that they cannot reproduce blacks. I use my projector every day, so you are bull$hitting when you say it will just sit idle most of the time. I use mine for special television programs, watching movies from bluray and HD satellite just like you can use a digital projector for.

The point I am trying to make is that your so called "quest" for "perfection" is a rationalization, a way to justify spending a fortune on crap, when the real reason is that you are afraid of change, like those turntable and tube loonies, you are scared of the future,
you spent your life investing in a certain way of doing things and now thats GONE,
AND IT WONT BE COMING BACK.
sad, really

I am afraid of change? Do you own a bluray player? Do you own a HD DVD player? No, you own neither. I ditched my DVD players two years ago. I bought into DVD the first year it came to market. I bought a bluray and HD DVD player because they are an improvment over DVD. I bought DVD because it was an improvement over VHS. I purchased DVD-A and SACD because it had performance advantages over CD. I bought my CRT projector because it was an improvement over what was out there when I purchased it. I will purchase a digital projector when it offers an improvement over what I currently have. What you do not seem to get is that we think fundamentally differently. Your a cheapskate, I am not. You are ignorant and uniformed, I am not. I will pay for the performance advantages, you won't because you don't treasure performance, you are a penny counter. I have been out there looking at projectors, you are here talking about what you think. I prefer my eyes over your big uninformed mouth. When I see the digital projectors outperforming my CRT's, I will give up my CRT's. However I am not going to spend $60k for a projector that get you in the ballpark, but is not a home run. And to my eyes there is nothing under $20k that will outperform my CRT's. I am not in love with stuff, I am in love with performance and quality. This is something you are having a hard time getting because it doesn't mean anything to you. You can justify the lesser because its cheaper, and everyone is buying them. Everyone is also bankrupting themselves shopping at your favorite place, Walmart. Just because that is what they are doing, does not mean that is what I am going to do.

You continue to play follow the leader sheeplecheapskate, I know its easier for you to not think and just follow the masses. There are some of us that are not interested in following that path.

You still are trying to evade answering this question. Why if digital flat panels and digital projection are so much better you cannot find one in use in the mastering houses in Hollywood? Surely if they were so much better, Hollywood would be all over them since they are now mastering high definition titles. Are you going to say they are behind the times as well?

[pixelthis]

Who said it was important? I just stated an observation. I think its pathetic that you are jealous

.
Jealous of what?

Unlike yourself, I am not the sheeple type. I do not follow what the masses do. That is systemic of a person who cannot think for himself, or at all. You are the sheeple type, the cheap sheeple type. You do things just because everyone else is doing it, but you do it on the cheap. It doesn't matter that they don't make them anymore, you can still find them, and they still outperform digital projectors out there on the market. If that was not so, then Curt Palmer's company and other like his would not exist.

EVERYBODY follows what the "masses" do, there is no way around it.
High end audio and video float on a sea of mass market tech, and even then its not feasible sometimes to do certain things.
This is why its important to raise the level of awareness for "civilians".
Not only for their increased enjoyment, but if they buy better stuff than we in the HT world will get better stuff.
And this is why mass market form factors like LCD, DLP, LCOS, and eventually OLED
are important. THE MORE YOU CAN SELL the better they will be at a lower price and the larger the "high end" of the market will be.
If it gives your fragil ego a sense of superiority to play aroound with something that is obsolete, then by all means do so. You and "curt palmer " can scrounge the junkyards of the world for parts for your creations, maybe it'll keep you out of other peoples hair

Look stupid old man, I do not have to prove anything to anyone. I do not have to justify anything to anyone. I make my decision based on my research, not sitting in a chair in the backwoods with one tooth in my mouth, and a coors beer in my hand. You do not know what I have spent, you do not know how much these things cost anymore. This ONE USE arguement is a red herring. I can watch anything on my projector that anyone else can watch on theirs. The digital projectors are nothing more than a digital implementation of projection television, and CRT's are analog. What are you stupid? Do you think that digital projection has some magic feature that allows it to project something that cannot be projected with a CRT based projection system? You ignorance is profound pixelstupid.

CRT is limited by the light output of a phosper being hit by an electron beam, thats
why light output goes down for increased resolutions, because a finer pitch is needed for pixels, and they put out less light as a result.
Microdisplays can take a lot of light before they start to melt.
brightness is the chief failing of CRT, they were meant to be direct view, trying to use them for projection is like trying to fly to the moon in a Cessna.
DLP and other formats at the finest are limited by the diameter of a photon, a CRT
is limited by the diameter of an electron, and even if you could make a phosper dot that small it could never put out enough light.
AND DONT FORGET brightness is important to people, its why they like LCD and the new formats, it why every manufacturer has sold sets with the contrast set to "torch"
mode with the HT crowd complaining all the way.
OH, I forget, you dont live in the real world

There you go again with throwing out abstract numbers again. Pixelfoo, you cannot try and fill in the blanks of your ignorance with abstract information. Its not just an improvement in black levels, can't you read? Its improvement in contrast level, black levels, more accurate color gamut, the ability to be tweaked for higher resolutions. Part of the problems with color accuracy on the digital projectors stems from the fact that they cannot reproduce blacks. I use my projector every day, so you are bull$hitting when you say it will just sit idle most of the time. I use mine for special television programs, watching movies from bluray and HD satellite just like you can use a digital projector for.

Not in a lit room you dont.
The "black level" is the only advantage of crt, and its slim.
THE BLACK LEVEL ON MY SET IS QUITE GOOD, and the lack of glare means I can use it in real world conditions, and when I want to do serious watching I just turn down the backlight , at 50% the picture is quite good.
AND color purity has NOTHING to do with black level, BTW, NOT THAT THE NEW PANELS CANT REPRODUCE BLACK , they can, AND QUITE WELL.
And OLED is gradually being ramped up, unlike even crt, the black level is PERFECT.
That oughta shut up you "black level" fanatics.
But it wont, you will just find some other excuse to hang onto your crap, while most move to OLED screens the size of a wall.

I am afraid of change? Do you own a bluray player? Do you own a HD DVD player? No, you own neither. I ditched my DVD players two years ago. I bought into DVD the first year it came to market. I bought a bluray and HD DVD player because they are an improvment over DVD. I bought DVD because it was an improvement over VHS. I purchased DVD-A and SACD because it had performance advantages over CD. I bought my CRT projector because it was an improvement over what was out there when I purchased it. I will purchase a digital projector when it offers an improvement over what I currently have. What you do not seem to get is that we think fundamentally differently. Your a cheapskate, I am not. You are ignorant and uniformed, I am not. I will pay for the performance advantages, you won't because you don't treasure performance, you are a penny counter. I have been out there looking at projectors, you are here talking about what you think. I prefer my eyes over your big uninformed mouth. When I see the digital projectors outperforming my CRT's, I will give up my CRT's. However I am not going to spend $60k for a projector that get you in the ballpark, but is not a home run. And to my eyes there is nothing under $20k that will outperform my CRT's. I am not in love with stuff, I am in love with performance and quality. This is something you are having a hard time getting because it doesn't mean anything to you. You can justify the lesser because its cheaper, and everyone is buying them. Everyone is also bankrupting themselves shopping at your favorite place, Walmart. Just because that is what they are doing, does not mean that is what I am going to do.

You are in love with yourself, mostly.
My first DVD player was 450 bucks, had no component because that wasnt out yet.
When DVD came out I bought a 600$ panasonic model, when DVD players were selling for 50 bucks, so lay off of the "cheapskate" crap.
I am not a "cheapskate" neither am I A FOOL., UNLIKE YOURSELF.
I am not going to buy a half dozen different blu players in order to get the "best" that is currently out there, been there, done that.
In a year maybe, when everything has been finalized and the price drops a bit, maybe.
This "cheapskate" has a 1200 dollar receiver, maybe not much to you but it was a sacrifice to buy it.
And its only four years old AND OBSOLETE.
They have come out with THREE formats for video since I bought it four years ago, rendering the component video switching obsolete.
I paid for that feature, and now its useless.
Not going to do that with blu, or anything else.
My first DVD player had no component out, my second had component but no progressive scan, my third dvd audio, progresive scan, NO SACD.
Screw it, I am waiting

You continue to play follow the leader sheeplecheapskate, I know its easier for you to not think and just follow the masses. There are some of us that are not interested in following that path.

You "follow" that path whether or not you think so.
EVERY conference room at my old job had panasonic front projectors with seven"
guns, eventually they were replaced by DLP at a fraction of the size and a lot more performance, those pannys werent far off from what YOU have.
And my company had about a dozen of them.
YOU always follow the "masses", unless you are fabricating your own parts

You still are trying to evade answering this question. Why if digital flat panels and digital projection are so much better you cannot find one in use in the mastering houses in Hollywood? Surely if they were so much better, Hollywood would be all over them since they are now mastering high definition titles. Are you going to say they are behind the times as well?

I dont give a rats ass about what the "mastering houses " in hollywood,
why should I?
I use my gear for entertainment, they use theirs for work.
And I can bet that if CRT is being used its in the budget for replacement, as soon as the old stuff wears out.
I bought B&W speakers not because they are preferred by studio engineers,
but because they are scary good for the price.
BTW all of the departments , including endoscophy, at the hospital where I work, have dumped all of their CRTS, NOTHING BUT HIGH RES LCD PANELS are used now.
They are betting peoples lives on this tech.
But if its not good enough for you...

Those "mastering houses " are like any other business, you dont throw away a capital investment.
CRT is obsolete, that means that theres better out there, doesnt mean it still cant be used.
But I CAN GUARENTEE YA, it will be gone in a few years

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

.
Jealous of what?

You tell me? Maybe because you are stuck with a cheap 37" vizio that can barely do 720p properly.

EVERYBODY follows what the "masses" do, there is no way around it.

You cannot speak for everybody. Some folks think for themselves. Now you may follow the masses for the simple reason that you cannot.

High end audio and video float on a sea of mass market tech, and even then its not feasible sometimes to do certain things.

I hate to bring this bad new to you stupid, but flat panels started off as a high end product. Revox was the first to exibit one at CES, and Revox was not a mass market brand. The first flat panel was out of the price range of mass market, but as manufacturing cost went down, the technology moved into the mainstream. Almost all electronics in the past started off in the high end and worked its way down.

This is why its important to raise the level of awareness for "civilians".
Not only for their increased enjoyment, but if they buy better stuff than we in the HT world will get better stuff.

Not necessarily. Arcam produced excellent CD and DVD players. Much of what they did in terms of design, quality of parts, and R&D will never be seen in the mass market. Its too costly to meet mass market pricing. Runco introduce constant height 2:35:1 with their special processing. You can find this on other high end projection systems, but you will never find it in mass market projectors that cost less than $5k because it is too expensive to implement at that price point. Wadia, Krell, California Audio Labs all have some of the best CD players out there. But you will not find the kinds of processors and parts in these players in mass market players, they would be too expensive. The mass market is full of performance compromises, and it has to be that way to meet mass market price points. The high end is driven by performance, not price, so compromises are greatly reduced.

And this is why mass market form factors like LCD, DLP, LCOS, and eventually OLED
are important. THE MORE YOU CAN SELL the better they will be at a lower price and the larger the "high end" of the market will be.

The high end was never meant to be large. This is another case of your coors beer mentality trying to grasp Dom perrion concepts. The high end market is performance driven, the mass market price driven. By logic the mass market will always be larger than the high end market. In the last 10 years, the mass market has grown, and the high end has shrunk profoundly as consumer look to get their components alot cheaper than they used to. When I bought my first CD player, it was over a grand. When I bought my first DVD player it was over a grand. Now you have folks crying over the price of a $400 bluray player. Once again to illustrate my point. There were CRT based high end projectors that could do an accurate 1080p back in 1997. Today the mass market is dominated by 720p displays, and displays that can barely do 1080p.

If it gives your fragil ego a sense of superiority to play aroound with something that is obsolete, then by all means do so. You and "curt palmer " can scrounge the junkyards of the world for parts for your creations, maybe it'll keep you out of other peoples hair

I thought being a low budget dumpster diver was going to keep you busy a while. But it looks like you can sift through trash and still be here to give some fleas. Its pretty clear that you did not make it past the third grade.

Obsolete \Ob"so*lete\, a. [L. obsoletus, p. p. of obsolescere. See Obsolescent.]

1. No longer in use; gone into disuse; disused; neglected; as, an obsolete word; an obsolete statute; -- applied chiefly to words, writings, or observances.

Your english is apparently as challenged as your knowledge of electronics. If I own, and thousand of others own and use something, it cannot be obsolete. If anyone is working to improve something, it is not neglected. If Curt Palmer is restoring and selling hundreds of high end projectors a year, then they are not no longer in use. I would try moving on to the fourth grade. It might improve your understanding of the english language.

CRT is limited by the light output of a phosper being hit by an electron beam, thats
why light output goes down for increased resolutions, because a finer pitch is needed for pixels, and they put out less light as a result.

Yes, but Sony, Electrohome, Ampro, Vidikitron, and Runco managed to create CRT's that exceed 1200 lumens(Sony and Electrohome 1300) and can still do an accurate 1080p and meet SMPTE specifications on a 130" screen. Its called 9" CRT's, which are capable of getting more light on the screen than a single gun CRT, even at higher resolutions.

Microdisplays can take a lot of light before they start to melt.
brightness is the chief failing of CRT, they were meant to be direct view, trying to use them for projection is like trying to fly to the moon in a Cessna.

Well that Cessna must have made it to the moon, because three gun CRT's are better performers in all areas than a single gun CRT. The best single gun CRT can do is 480i, with the exception of the HD CRT displays which cost $40 grand, and can do 1080p. Secondly, Joe Kane, you know the dude you like to quote alot(wrongly I might add) says that movies should be viewed in a dark room with a single bias light for smaller displays. That does not require eye searing levels of brightness, and if you have ever seen a properly calibrated display(and you have probably not based on this continued brightness arguement) you cannot view it in anything place but a darkened room, I do not care if the display is a LCD, LYCOS, DLP or plasma. So this whole CRT cannot do as much light as digital projectors is a red herring of an arguement at best.

DLP and other formats at the finest are limited by the diameter of a photon, a CRT
is limited by the diameter of an electron, and even if you could make a phosper dot that small it could never put out enough light.

Somehow somebody invented a three 9" CRT based projector that can do 1080p accurately, and meet SMPTE standards for light output on a 130" screen. The last testing on DLP television found that only one could accurately produce a 1080p image, even if it had more peak light than a CRT. So this comment rings as hollow as the space between your ears.

AND DONT FORGET brightness is important to people, its why they like LCD and the new formats, it why every manufacturer has sold sets with the contrast set to "torch"
mode with the HT crowd complaining all the way.
OH, I forget, you dont live in the real world

I certainly don't live in the world you just describe. That your world, you know, the "good enough" crowd. Not my people. And keeping your set in the torch mode kills bulb life, and bulbs are not cheap.

Not in a lit room you dont.
The "black level" is the only advantage of crt, and its slim.

Man you are a thick headed fool. Black level is not the only advantage of CRT. Contrast levels, the ability to accurately display the HD color gamut, the ability to properly track the greyscale over the sets operating range, instantaneous response, and no blur are CRT's advantages. Once again, you do not watch movies in a lit room unless you don't care about image quality. You cannot get the contast correct. But you don't care because performance is not your issue, price is.

THE BLACK LEVEL ON MY SET IS QUITE GOOD, and the lack of glare means I can use it in real world conditions, and when I want to do serious watching I just turn down the backlight , at 50% the picture is quite good.

When YOU say something is quite good, it probably crappy. Your vizio has a real world contrast ratio of about 300:1. I have seen those cheap a$$ sets in Costco. Black is grey, no matter how you slice it. When you say the picture is quite good, it probably looks like $hit becuase the price was right, even if the performance was in the toilet. Your ceiling is my floor, there is no doubt about that. I wouldn't put a vizio in my bathroom. But that is just me.

AND color purity has NOTHING to do with black level, BTW, NOT THAT THE NEW PANELS CANT REPRODUCE BLACK , they can, AND QUITE WELL.

You are in denial pixelstupid. Everyone knows that neither plasma, DLP, nor LCD can do black. Its dark grey. And if you cannot do black well, then the entire greyscale is off kilter, which effects how the color gamut is preceived by the eyes. These things do not work in isolation, they work in combination. If one is off, it effects all of the other parimeters as well. You will find that out when you purchase AVIA or Videoessentials and try and calibrate the thing. If blacker than black looks like grey on the pluge signal, then your greyscale tracking is completely off all the way to white.

And OLED is gradually being ramped up, unlike even crt, the black level is PERFECT.
That oughta shut up you "black level" fanatics.
But it wont, you will just find some other excuse to hang onto your crap, while most move to OLED screens the size of a wall.

Strange thing to say coming from you. I moved on to bluray, you are still doing DVD. I moved on to projection, you are still using a cheap 37" flat panel television. If there is anyone hanging on to anything, its you. Call me when OLED is larger than 11" and is cheaper than $2700 for that size. Sony is still at the prototype stage at 27". I am going to get quite a few years of perfect 1080p bliss, accurate greyscale, accurate HD color gamut, excellent contrast ratio, and the ability to do blacks before it gets to a reasonable price point.

You are in love with yourself, mostly.

Anyone that doesn't love themselves has some serious issues.

My first DVD player was 450 bucks, had no component because that wasnt out yet.
When DVD came out I bought a 600$ panasonic model, when DVD players were selling for 50 bucks, so lay off of the "cheapskate" crap.

You really think I am stupid. By the time DVD players were $50, there was very few players even over $300 bucks. Once again lying just to make a point. You got into DVD three years after it entered the market, because all of the first generation models from every manufacturer were over $1000. The next year the average price was around $600. Cheapskates dumpster dive and settle for cheap flat panel TV's

I am not a "cheapskate" neither am I A FOOL., UNLIKE YOURSELF.

You are both a cheapskate AND a fool. Everyone here knows that, you are the only one who doesn't.

I am not going to buy a half dozen different blu players in order to get the "best" that is currently out there, been there, done that.

You haven't even bought one yet, let alone a half a dozen.

In a year maybe, when everything has been finalized and the price drops a bit, maybe.

When everything is finalized. It has been for two years idiot. Oh and that price thing again(oh I am not cheap). The PS3 is a full profile player that does everything the format is spec for. You can find one for less than $400 dollars these days, or does it have to get to $50 to get your attention? Face it cheepie, your a cheepy.

This "cheapskate" has a 1200 dollar receiver, maybe not much to you but it was a sacrifice to buy it.
And its only four years old AND OBSOLETE.

Becoming tough to stretch that social security check huh? Well a $500 receiver is probably more full featured today than yours. Maybe if you ate dog food for a year you could get a new one.

They have come out with THREE formats for video since I bought it four years ago, rendering the component video switching obsolete.
I paid for that feature, and now its useless.

Yeah, well it was useless when you bought it. Component video switching in receivers is not a transparent process. The video bandwidth rolls off prematurely, and receiver from 4 years ago could not even reproduce the entire bandwidth of the DVD format without rolling off the high end. Anyone relying on that as a switching devices cannot have quality in their minds. Funny, I though only two video formats have been new in four years. DVD was not new four years ago, it was new eleven years ago. The only new video formats we have seen since DVD is HD DVD and Bluray. What is the third?

Not going to do that with blu, or anything else.
My first DVD player had no component out, my second had component but no progressive scan, my third dvd audio, progresive scan, NO SACD.
Screw it, I am waiting

And you accuse me of holding on to old stuff. LOL. Get a PS3, its a fully featured player that fully meets the bluray spec. They'll be four more standalones that meet full bluray spec coming out in the next couple of months. If you are not interested in internet connectivity, then there are several available now that function perfectly. Waiting is your perogotive, but you cannot accuse somebody else of holding on to old technology if you do the very same thing yourself. I made the jump, got both formats, and am enjoying movies on both of my players.

You "follow" that path whether or not you think so.

You hold on to that thought if it makes you feel better. You like lies better than the truth anyway.

EVERY conference room at my old job had panasonic front projectors with seven"
guns, eventually they were replaced by DLP at a fraction of the size and a lot more performance, those pannys werent far off from what YOU have.

You really do not know anything about CRT projectors. The best 7" guns can do 1280x1024 lines of information, the BEST. Panasonic is not on that best list, as a matter of fact its not even on Curt Palmer's list of upgradeable or refurbishable projectors which means its of only average to poor quality. The best 7" can only do 800 lumens of light, and would not meet SMPTE light standards on any screen larger than 80". A Sony G-90(and my RPTV) can do 2000x2500 lines of accurate information, The Sony can meet SMPTE light specs with a 1080p signal on a 300" screen. My RPTV can do easily do the same over its meager 65" screen with more than enough light to burn your eyes out. You cannot fake knowledge with me pixeldummy, I know you are lying before that lying mouth opens. Anyone that has every OWNED a quality CRT projector knows that 7" guns are not going to be anything close to the performance of a 9" high end CRT.

And my company had about a dozen of them.
YOU always follow the "masses", unless you are fabricating your own parts

If that is your criteria, then I am not following the masses. The tubes in my G-90 and my RPTV were fabricated, and came to me brand new. The HDMI connection to my G-90 was fabricated from new parts, and I know this because the G-90 did not come with HDMI connections. I got one of Sony last few G-90 before they quite making them in 2003.

I dont give a rats ass about what the "mastering houses " in hollywood,
why should I?
I use my gear for entertainment, they use theirs for work.

You watch movies don't you dummy? And if they use them to master 1080p bluray disc, then apparently CRT's are capable of 1080p images with enough light to be seen. HD CRT are single gun monitors, and yes, they are viewed in darkened rooms just like you are supposed to view HD images.

And I can bet that if CRT is being used its in the budget for replacement, as soon as the old stuff wears out.

Its not in my studio budget to replace them. They are the best thing out there for mastering images, and if they were not, they wouldn't be there. And since they have a very long life, its going to give the flat panels plenty of time to play performance catchup.

I bought B&W speakers not because they are preferred by studio engineers,
but because they are scary good for the price.

The B&W speakers preferred by studio engineers are the 801D's and the Nautilus models. They are far out of your budget cheapskate pixy, so no more lying to make a point liar. If you complain about the price of a $10k projector, you sure ain't going for a set of speakers that set you back $5-10,000 per pair. Get real!

BTW all of the departments , including endoscophy, at the hospital where I work, have dumped all of their CRTS, NOTHING BUT HIGH RES LCD PANELS are used now.
They are betting peoples lives on this tech.
But if its not good enough for you...

Hospitals are not require to meet any level of SMPTE standards. So any parimeter associated with SMPTE is not a priority for a hospital. There are no requirements for contrast levels, accurate greyscale, accurate HD color gamut, response time(they look at static images) or motion blur(they look at static images). So just because your hospital you live at...I mean work at goes flat panel, that does not mean that is the best visual device there is for moving images, or movie images. Apples and cake pixelsnot.

Those "mastering houses " are like any other business, you dont throw away a capital investment.
CRT is obsolete, that means that theres better out there, doesnt mean it still cant be used.
But I CAN GUARENTEE YA, it will be gone in a few years

The studio I work for get rid of equipment as new better performing equipment comes to market. If there is no better display technology out there, they will not make the change. The studio I work for is known for quality work, and if flat panels were better viewing devices, we would have switch them out already. They are not, so we keep our CRT's. Who knows what will be there in a few years, but flat panels are not what we have yet. And if flat panel performance has not advance to the point where it exceeds the professional HD CRT, then they will not be in our studio in a few years. That's the only gurantee that can be made.

You need an english refresher course. Nothing can be obsolete unless it is competely out of use, out of demand, and out of sight entirely. VHS players are obosolete. Consumer Super Beta players are obsolete, high end CRT based projection systems are not quite obsolete until people like me have abandon them.

[GMichael]

When are you two going to stop flirting with each other and get together for drinks?
Maybe a movie, and then out dancing?

[pixelthis]

When are you two going to stop flirting with each other and get together for drinks?
Maybe a movie, and then out dancing?

I just threw up in my mouth.
you know, not everybody has your "biamp" current ability

In any even I won so that is that

[Duds]

Vizio sucks

[GMichael]

I just threw up in my mouth.
you know, not everybody has your "biamp" current ability

In any even I won so that is that

Won? What did you win? Some Listerine?