Paramount and Dreamworks Go HD-DVD Exclusive

[PeruvianSkies]

Interesting,i have heard it's not a bad player.What i was getting at however is do you use digital or analog connection.

bill

Both. I have both analog and digital connected and I usually go back and forth a bit. My player has analog out and a 5.1 out, which I use the left and right outs and have them into my CD input on my receiver as well as the analog input (intended for SACD). I find myself liking certain things in analog over digital and vise-versa. Usually, and I don't know why this seems to be the case, but older recordings (actually older material I should say) sounds better to me via analog. For example I thought that the MoFi Gold CD of BOOKENDS sounded better and more organic in analog, but newer material tends to do well in digital.

[musicman1999]

Both. I have both analog and digital connected and I usually go back and forth a bit. My player has analog out and a 5.1 out, which I use the left and right outs and have them into my CD input on my receiver as well as the analog input (intended for SACD). I find myself liking certain things in analog over digital and vise-versa. Usually, and I don't know why this seems to be the case, but older recordings (actually older material I should say) sounds better to me via analog. For example I thought that the MoFi Gold CD of BOOKENDS sounded better and more organic in analog, but newer material tends to do well in digital.

That is a little strange,i would have thought that the Parasound would have been a fair bit better than the Pioneer reciever thats in your gear list.Maybe i don't give the Pioneer enough credit.

bill

[pixelthis]

If you are using B&W than change your SIGNATURE to indicate that, otherwise don't blame me for the mistake on what you are currently using.

And just to prove that you hardly know anything about what you talk about, the comment about PSB's being overpriced is just hilarious. I have never heard anyone call these speakers 'overpriced' and if anything PSB has always been known for high-end quality as budget prices. Although you wouldn't know anything about that since apparently Canadian Speaker Manufacturers are only in existence to keep up with the wood industry demands. That was a good one! Where do you come up with your crack-head ideas? Maybe crack.

I'm not blaming you for anything except for being obnoxious.
And there is no "Canadian speaker industry", a Canadian speaker CABINET industry maybe, as most subcontract out their drivers.
I have a friend who has a pair of axiom towers, they sound a lot like PSB.
You know where Milwalkee best beer comes from? Made by miller beer.
The Miller comes from the top of the vat, "best" comes from the bottom.
Same for Keystone, made by Coors.
Axioms are just the "bottom of the vat" PSB's, which in turn are "bottom of the vat"
of whatever passes for high end speakers in Canada.
PSB is a bit overpriced if you consider that Axiom is cheaper, but I can't preach.
I bought an Integra receiver knowing there wasn't much difference between it and
an Onkyo. Not much difference between a crown vic and a Mercury Marqui either.
The difference with me is I KNOW what games marketing types play, in order to gloss
over the plans laid out by manufacturing engineers, who contract out with
a manufacturer, and quite often a lot of stuff comes out of the same place,
just with different names.
You should have bought Axioms. Your speakers would have sounded just as bad
but you could have saved some money.
Or maybe get some of those new bargain line of B&w, which are now made in China
dang it all
The descendents of my great DM305 floorstanders in other words

[PeruvianSkies]

I'm not blaming you for anything except for being obnoxious.
And there is no "Canadian speaker industry", a Canadian speaker CABINET industry maybe, as most subcontract out their drivers.
I have a friend who has a pair of axiom towers, they sound a lot like PSB.
You know where Milwalkee best beer comes from? Made by miller beer.
The Miller comes from the top of the vat, "best" comes from the bottom.
Same for Keystone, made by Coors.
Axioms are just the "bottom of the vat" PSB's, which in turn are "bottom of the vat"
of whatever passes for high end speakers in Canada.
PSB is a bit overpriced if you consider that Axiom is cheaper, but I can't preach.
I bought an Integra receiver knowing there wasn't much difference between it and
an Onkyo. Not much difference between a crown vic and a Mercury Marqui either.
The difference with me is I KNOW what games marketing types play, in order to gloss
over the plans laid out by manufacturing engineers, who contract out with
a manufacturer, and quite often a lot of stuff comes out of the same place,
just with different names.
You should have bought Axioms. Your speakers would have sounded just as bad
but you could have saved some money.
Or maybe get some of those new bargain line of B&w, which are now made in China
dang it all
The descendents of my great DM305 floorstanders in other words

So when did you hear PSB Platinum speakers before?

[PeruvianSkies]

These two things are NOT equal by any means.

[GMichael]

I'm not blaming you for anything except for being obnoxious.
And there is no "Canadian speaker industry", a Canadian speaker CABINET industry maybe, as most subcontract out their drivers.
I have a friend who has a pair of axiom towers, they sound a lot like PSB.
You know where Milwalkee best beer comes from? Made by miller beer.
The Miller comes from the top of the vat, "best" comes from the bottom.
Same for Keystone, made by Coors.
Axioms are just the "bottom of the vat" PSB's, which in turn are "bottom of the vat"
of whatever passes for high end speakers in Canada.
PSB is a bit overpriced if you consider that Axiom is cheaper, but I can't preach.
I bought an Integra receiver knowing there wasn't much difference between it and
an Onkyo. Not much difference between a crown vic and a Mercury Marqui either.
The difference with me is I KNOW what games marketing types play, in order to gloss
over the plans laid out by manufacturing engineers, who contract out with
a manufacturer, and quite often a lot of stuff comes out of the same place,
just with different names.
You should have bought Axioms. Your speakers would have sounded just as bad
but you could have saved some money.
Or maybe get some of those new bargain line of B&w, which are now made in China
dang it all
The descendents of my great DM305 floorstanders in other words

You so remind me of our "color me gone" buddy RL. I'm going to need another sarcasm detector.

[Feanor]

I'm not blaming you for anything except for being obnoxious.
And there is no "Canadian speaker industry", a Canadian speaker CABINET industry maybe, as most subcontract out their drivers.
...

Of course it's fair to say that most speaker makers everywhere obtain their drivers from specialized manufactureres, (e.g. ScanSpeak, Focal, Acuton, Morel, Eton). But there's no reason to single out Canadian speaker makers. Paradigm, for example, makes all its own drivers. Off hand I'm not sure about PSB.

On the other hand, soon more or less everything in the entire world will be made in China even if, (for a while), product continues to be designed elsewhere. PSB's low end lines, at least, are made in China; not sure about the Platinums.

[Mr Peabody]

Paradigm is Canadian, they say they build their own drivers and parts. Well, of course, they claim to have been voted #1 for 17 years too.

Another thing to keep in mind, even though more than one brand comes out of the same door, don't necessarily make them the same. Manufacturers may build for several brands but have specs they have to build to. I'd say this is especially so for driver manufacturers as different brands have different cabinets, volume, sensitivity etc that they strive for.

In case anyone new was to read our threads, let's try to respond with at least some information to counter with. Or else, we all may look like a bunch of pre-schoolers.

Oh Yeah?! My dad can beat up your dad!

[GMichael]

Oh Yeah?! My dad can beat up your dad!

But mine can fart louder.

[pixelthis]

Paradigm is Canadian, they say they build their own drivers and parts. Well, of course, they claim to have been voted #1 for 17 years too.

Another thing to keep in mind, even though more than one brand comes out of the same door, don't necessarily make them the same. Manufacturers may build for several brands but have specs they have to build to. I'd say this is especially so for driver manufacturers as different brands have different cabinets, volume, sensitivity etc that they strive for.

In case anyone new was to read our threads, let's try to respond with at least some information to counter with. Or else, we all may look like a bunch of pre-schoolers.

Oh Yeah?! My dad can beat up your dad!

Sure, when speaker makers contract out their drivers they are always to spec.
And nothing wrong with this, indeed it may mean that some with great ideas can turn
out a speaker with miminal resources.
Axiom has a picture of their "plant", no way can they be building their drivers.
As for the diff between psb and axiom, and paradigm, well, if a Chevy looked
like a Caddy would you buy the Caddy?
I just love pullin your chain , skier, you have no sense of humour whatsoever.
Anyway this is the wave of the future, B&W is building their current economy speaker
(199 a pr) in China for gods sakes( they used to get the drivers for their 300 series from Dynaudio I beleive, which aint half bad).
I have a pair of dm305's, and hate to think they are the end of the line for really cheap english speakers.
Anyway I saw an ad for some PSB floorstanders for about 1500 bucks and I must admit they did look nice(audio liquidators or some such)
And a friend has the axiom M80(their top of the line floorstanders) and really, they are nothing to be ashamed of, although I dont like doubling the driver complement as
you will get some frequency cancelation there every once in awhile

[pixelthis]

These two things are NOT equal by any means.

And if you'll take time to notice the driver complement and dimensions arent really that different.
My buddy stained his a darker shade to match his furiture.
Yep, thats real wood veneer

[PeruvianSkies]

And if you'll take time to notice the driver complement and dimensions arent really that different.
My buddy stained his a darker shade to match his furiture.
Yep, thats real wood veneer

What is the color on your imaginary B&W's? You know the ones that you are driving with an Integra receiver yet give Rich flack for driving his B&W's with a receiver.

I do have a sense of humor...I just don't find trolls funny.

[pixelthis]

What is the color on your imaginary B&W's? You know the ones that you are driving with an Integra receiver yet give Rich flack for driving his B&W's with a receiver.

I do have a sense of humor...I just don't find trolls funny.

I don't have any imaginary ones.
I do have a set of black 600 series, about six years old, I have posted reviews of all in the review section under various names.
And if anything these dont quite measure up to my receiver, although the sound coming from them is quite pleasant.
My receiver is a DTR 7.4 btw, about three years old. At least you cant tell if the knobs
are plastic, like you can when you shine the light on your pioneer.(everything on the front is brushed aluminum)
And comparing my speakers to rich's is quite rediculous, I have about 1200$ in my current setup plus the sub, driving them with a 1200$ receiver seems quite credible.
But rich has several thousand in his speakers, the center alone is almost as much as my entire complement put together, to drive such a set of speakers with a receiver like a yamaha htr is a real waste of resources. I was just pointing that out, mostly by making a joke, sorry about your lack of a sense of humour but anybody who disagrees with you
isn't automatically a "troll".
Rich has a "htr" as opposed to an rx model, htrs are sold in department stores and
mail order and the net, RX models tend to be sold in hi-fi shops, etc.
Why is it not a good idea to run such speakers with a cheaper receiver?
Its a waste of resources. Why pay that much for such speakers and run them
with a receiver? Maybe one top of the line, but you can get just as good a sound
from cheaper speakers using this receiver.
Why buy a porsch in the Bahamas when the speed limit is 20 mph?
Ego gratification?
Even though its too late now, even though the resale of B&W in quite high (apair of CDM1'
bookshelves recently went for 980 on Ebay, retailed for 1200 new) you wont save anything by selling them and buying a cheaper set, so the sensible thing wouold be to get some decent amplication, hook it up to your HTR and improve your system a little.
Maybe something by outlaw or something. Why pay that much for such speakers if you wont get any use outta them?
B&W is nortorious for their inefficent speakers, you need some high current amplication
to drive them properly. I hate an unbalanced system is all.
Which is why I dont have such speakers, I cant afford the horsepower to drive them properly, or the high end input devices to hook to that horsepower.
My "economy " beemers are probably best for my lower priced system,
which incidently includes exactly the same dvd player you have.
All this plays to the point of having a balanced system, the only time you need a higher line product is when its the first stage in an upgrade path.
Basically its all about having a balanced system, this saves money and sounds
better usually. Hope this explains it for you, as you obviously dont understand
such "system 101" basics, the basics of building a well rounded system where no part is a waste of money because of its wasted talents

[PeruvianSkies]

And if you'll take time to notice the driver complement and dimensions arent really that different.
My buddy stained his a darker shade to match his furiture.
Yep, thats real wood veneer

So you are basing your decision on what they LOOK like and their CONFIGURATION? Yeah, that's the way to really judge speakers. Just because a set of PSB's look like the many of thousands of other speakers out there is no indication of what they sound like. ProAc and Totem make speakers that aren't that 'special' looking in their design, but both sound phenomenal, even if Totem is made in Canada...right? If you actually understood the design, technology, and development behind PSB speakers you would understand why they half left a nice imprint on the industry for the past 30 years. Don't judge their sound on their prices because it won't make sense. Until the Platinum's arrived you could get everything they offered for 2K or under, which is mind blowing. The Platinum's are light years ahead of what the company offered prior to that as well, it's a new benchmark and if you actually get to hear them one day you would understand that too.

There are no Axioms!

[pixelthis]

So you are basing your decision on what they LOOK like and their CONFIGURATION? Yeah, that's the way to really judge speakers. Just because a set of PSB's look like the many of thousands of other speakers out there is no indication of what they sound like. ProAc and Totem make speakers that aren't that 'special' looking in their design, but both sound phenomenal, even if Totem is made in Canada...right? If you actually understood the design, technology, and development behind PSB speakers you would understand why they half left a nice imprint on the industry for the past 30 years. Don't judge their sound on their prices because it won't make sense. Until the Platinum's arrived you could get everything they offered for 2K or under, which is mind blowing. The Platinum's are light years ahead of what the company offered prior to that as well, it's a new benchmark and if you actually get to hear them one day you would understand that too.

There are no Axioms!

Well, what is that canadian plant turning out?
There are no "new benchmarks" actually, most speaker tech is decades old, theres' nothing new under the sun.
AND as much as I hate this (chews his big toe off) I apologise because you have obviously
misunderstood me.
The axioms and psb models you showed me are basicaly the same, dual bass, mid, and treble drivers, the only real difference being that one of the Psb drivers in the midrange is bigger, and the Psb does use a better tweeter than the titanium ones on the Axioms.
But both are obviously based on the same design, which probably came out of the government subsidized lab that they have in Canada now, and that a lot of the speaker
companies use up there now.
Ones a CHEVY, ones a PONTIAC, and I would guess that paradigm has a similar
model, which would be the CADILLAC.
And nothing wrong with that, I drove a volkswagen, which is the chevy of germany.
But please dont think that there is anything new under the sun as far as speakers
are concerned, there are a few new designs out there but neither you or I could
afford them.
Basically its "musical" drivers (moving them around), redesigning new cabinets and marketing.
Unless you move "upscale" you basically get nothing new in a speaker these days,
you just have to pick which company you think does the best job of restating the same basic designs, and in your case, which gives away the best ink pen and coffetable book

[Mr Peabody]

You're probably right that there isn't a lot new as far as enclosures go but speaker technology has progressed. The progression is in the driver and parts build and quality. Also, it matters a lot the quality of the cabinet, you'd be surprised and how much the internal bracing matters. Do you know that I can crank my Dyn's up to a very loud level and place my hand on top of the cabinet and feel no vibration? How many speakers can you do that with?

Until getting acquainted with Dynaudio I did not believe that the level of high quality bass response could be gotten from a 6" driver. They totally changed my way of thinking on speakers. They use an interesting crossover on the Evidence series. The crossover some how detects what frequencies are in the signal and if a driver is not needed, it doesn't allow it to turn on. For instance, if the song is totally acoustic and no very low end, the low end driver won't receive any signal. This is how it worked in the beginning but I haven't gone back to read their literature in quite a while, since these speakers are far out of my reach unless I hit the Power Ball.

You can't go by the driver configuration because all manufacturer's do generally the same thing, you have a 6" 2-way, the still a 2-way, but two 6" drivers, and maybe some where up the line they will add a midrange or larger woofer.

I know nothing of Axiom or PSB but you also can't say speakers are the same because they come out of the same factory. Harmon America used to build JBL, Infinity and maybe others in the same factory. JBL and Infinity are nothing a like. Harmon relocated, at least the business end to the East coast, I don't know if they still operate their massive complex in California or not. Now they are probably all made in China, or worse.

[kexodusc]

Well, what is that canadian plant turning out?
There are no "new benchmarks" actually, most speaker tech is decades old, theres' nothing new under the sun.

Driver consistency, quality, performance, and cost have all improved for the better in the last decade - dramatically so at lower price points. Overall production costs are down too.
Speaker technology has made significant gains as well in cabinet and crossover modelling. Particularly crossover modelling. An awful lot of R&D and trial and error costs are eliminated, and not passed on to the consumer these days.

You can buy a $200 speaker today and put it beside some considerably more costly speakers from 1999 even and it won't be out of place. Yesterday's mid-fi struggles to keep up with a lot of today's entry-level stuff.

[bobsticks]

And comparing my speakers to rich's is quite rediculous, I have about 1200$ in my current setup plus the sub, driving them with a 1200$ receiver seems quite credible.
But rich has several thousand in his speakers, the center alone is almost as much as my entire complement put together, to drive such a set of speakers with a receiver like a yamaha htr is a real waste of resources. I was just pointing that out, mostly by making a joke, sorry about your lack of a sense of humour but anybody who disagrees with you
isn't automatically a "troll".
Rich has a "htr" as opposed to an rx model, htrs are sold in department stores and
mail order and the net, RX models tend to be sold in hi-fi shops, etc.
Why is it not a good idea to run such speakers with a cheaper receiver?
Its a waste of resources. Why pay that much for such speakers and run them
with a receiver? Maybe one top of the line, but you can get just as good a sound
from cheaper speakers using this receiver.
:

Pix does bring up a good point that I might have stated, albeit less contentiously.

Rich has got some great speakers down there deep in the heart of. My own experience was, except for speaker upgrades, adding an external amp gave the greatest quantifiable benefit to my sounds. Imagine with the increased slam/dynamics and presence how those bad boys could sing. B&Ws definetly can be improved with some serious current.

Just somethin' to think about.

[PeruvianSkies]

Well, what is that canadian plant turning out?
There are no "new benchmarks" actually, most speaker tech is decades old, theres' nothing new under the sun.
AND as much as I hate this (chews his big toe off) I apologise because you have obviously
misunderstood me.
The axioms and psb models you showed me are basicaly the same, dual bass, mid, and treble drivers, the only real difference being that one of the Psb drivers in the midrange is bigger, and the Psb does use a better tweeter than the titanium ones on the Axioms.
But both are obviously based on the same design, which probably came out of the government subsidized lab that they have in Canada now, and that a lot of the speaker
companies use up there now.
Ones a CHEVY, ones a PONTIAC, and I would guess that paradigm has a similar
model, which would be the CADILLAC.
And nothing wrong with that, I drove a volkswagen, which is the chevy of germany.
But please dont think that there is anything new under the sun as far as speakers
are concerned, there are a few new designs out there but neither you or I could
afford them.
Basically its "musical" drivers (moving them around), redesigning new cabinets and marketing.
Unless you move "upscale" you basically get nothing new in a speaker these days,
you just have to pick which company you think does the best job of restating the same basic designs, and in your case, which gives away the best ink pen and coffetable book

After reading this I feel sorry for you. You just don't 'get it'. Maybe one day you will.

[PeruvianSkies]

Pix does bring up a good point that I might have stated, albeit less contentiously.

Rich has got some great speakers down there deep in the heart of. My own experience was, except for speaker upgrades, adding an external amp gave the greatest quantifiable benefit to my sounds. Imagine with the increased slam/dynamics and presence how those bad boys could sing. B&Ws definetly can be improved with some serious current.

Just somethin' to think about.

I am not arguing the fact that adding some amps will help the B&W's, that's not my position in this debate. I know for a fact that driving them with amps would increase the results, but ... it's not OUR setup to decide this, it's Rich's and maybe (without assuming anything) he will do that one day, some of us are on a progessive track to improve things over time and when funds are available. I think it was smart for Rich to get good speakers first and then perhaps over time he will continue by experimenting with different ways to drive them. For now, if he is satisfied than it's really not our call what he does or doesn't do. Recommending an improvement is different from bashing someone for not doing what we think that they should do, I was sticking up for Rich, cause he's my homeboy.