Paramount and Dreamworks Go HD-DVD Exclusive

[PeruvianSkies]

Wow, this thread is so...so....so.....


EPIC!

[Woochifer]

Well, on this board there are those that seperate the Blu-Ray/ Sony segments apart. Travel on over to some of the more gamer oriented sites and they are all wetting themselves either from frustration (Sony) or joy (MS). Like it or not, PS3/Sony has tied themselves together pretty tight with the whole game/HD Blu-Ray movie player theme. So naturally the (Sony) Blu-Ray crowd is none to happy to have gotten the news.
The sense of inevitablity that Sony has had for years is no longer around. That was the point I was making.

It's not just the "Blu-ray crowd" that's frustrated. As kex pointed out, it's also consumers (like myself) who've been waiting for the dust to settle so that we can put our money on one format and get on with things. All that was left for that to happen was Universal going neutral. But, this decision by Paramount puts the wet blanket on a lot of potential purchases.

From the beginning, I've said that I did not care which format won so long as one format did win, and win decisively, and win quickly. The longer that any format war drags on, the greater the possibility that we wind up stuck with choosing between lower resolution DVDs and HD downloads that are compromised in other ways (time/play restrictions, 720p, low res audio, etc.). And the possibility of both formats failing increases the longer that the format war continues to drag down the market.

And yes, this holiday is going to be brutal. I predict at least one more price cut from both Sony, and MS if things dont pick up. Considering that Sony's 'Price Cut' is simply inventory reduction (after the 60 gig units are out, 80 gig are still $599, and no more 20 gig), they may have to reduce prices still.

I doubt that the PS3 prices will tumble below $400, but I can easily see the Blu-ray player prices going below $300 (some analysts have already projected this). As I pointed out to GM, the player prices could wind up equalizing somewhat because this Paramount deal has bought HD-DVD some extra time, and Toshiba no longer has the desperate incentive to slash hardware prices below cost to prop up their market share. In the meantime, Blu-ray player makers now have extra incentive to reduce hardware prices. Blu-ray already had things on tap for the holiday season to try and deliver a knockout punch on HD-DVD. Obviously, the knockout won't happen, but the Blu-ray Association is reportedly going to augment their holiday marketing campaign. Just yesterday, Fox responded by announcing a large release slate through the end of the year (after not announcing any new Blu-ray titles since March), and Disney is reportedly teaming up with Panasonic to launch their widely-anticipated Platinum series Blu-ray titles.

[PeruvianSkies]

It looks like both sides still have lots of tricks up their sleeves and this could get ugly before it ends, if it ends. Maybe pixelthis will be a casualty of this war.

[GMichael]

I'm sorry, but the Wii is crap. Its strictly SD, with no DVD support. The graphics are dated, and with the lowest price of the 360 at $279, the $249 Wii is no bargin.

I only know that they sell more. But I have seen people say that although they are SD, that they have the "best" games that have the "most" fun. Don't worry, HD is a priority for me. Wii is out of the running no matter what the numbers say.

What kind of racing games do you like? Arcade or realistic? Forza 2 is really hot for the 360, as well as Colin McRea (DIRt). I have Dirt, and it's pretty cool. The first time I went off the track, and my windshield exploded all over my co-pilot I about crapped my pants. This was after I buried my front end in a tree at about 60 mph on dirt.

The buggy races are cool, but online is time trials, and kinda sucks actually.

Project Gotham Racing is also a pretty good game, but I haven't played it. Stay away from the Need for Speed series unless your strictly arcade.

Forza, and Dirt can get technical if you are a gearhead, and like to play with suspensions, gear ratios, and other details. I just use stock ratios, but you can really spend some time if you are into it.

I like them to be as realistic as possible. If I had my way, they'd have flight simulators for me to sit in so I could feel every bump. I'd like to be able to have the car skid around a right hand turn so much that I'd have to look left to see where I'm going. I'd like to smell the fuel and the burnt oil. They can keep the dust though.
Sounds like there is no shortage of driving games to choose from. Something that reacts as close to the real thing as possible would be great. I might enjoy the picking out of gearhead equipment, but the real joy is in the driving fast as h.ll without getting a ticket.

[Rich-n-Texas]

GM, the most realistic games in my opinion are PC games. I was never a fan of XBOX, PS and whathaveyou because I just think they've got too much of a juvenile look and feel. I don't know if there's a NASCAR game for consoles, but the PC version is spectacular. I've just about finished putting a new PC together; maybe I'll start an Off Topic thread with it's specs, and I can't wait to get back into gaming. While I realize these consoles may/will have dual functionality, I just don't find anything mind-blowing about them. JMO though.

[Groundbeef]

I like them to be as realistic as possible. If I had my way, they'd have flight simulators for me to sit in so I could feel every bump. I'd like to be able to have the car skid around a right hand turn so much that I'd have to look left to see where I'm going. I'd like to smell the fuel and the burnt oil. They can keep the dust though.
Sounds like there is no shortage of driving games to choose from. Something that reacts as close to the real thing as possible would be great. I might enjoy the picking out of gearhead equipment, but the real joy is in the driving fast as h.ll without getting a ticket.

Well if money is no object get your ear on the phone and dial this outfit out. You really cant get more realistic without the car than this for your 360!!

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/costs-mor...ity-269325.php

Or perhaps this setup would better fit your budget:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/someone-h...tup-263810.php

You may want to see if some video stores in your area rent machines (PS3, 360) and try them out for a week.

Also, if you like realistic the PS3 flagship racing game Gran Tourismo is long on pretty, short on realistic. Apparently they cant show damage modeling on the cars, (something to do with mfgs of the car not wanting damage...I'm not making this up). So if you hit a wall at 175mph, you just bounce.

The 360 doesn't have the same damage constraints as the PS3 for some reason. I find it a bit more realistic in that fashion.

Forza 2...hit a wall at 175, you'll be ejected as your car splinters around you. Same with DIRt. Check out the video here:

http://xboxmovies.teamxbox.com/xbox-...lay-Trailer-2/

Its impressive in the box, but if you d/l and watch full screen its even better. Then imagine with surround sound. If you are in car, you can hear the rocks hitting the undercarrige.

[Groundbeef]

GM, the most realistic games in my opinion are PC games. I was never a fan of XBOX, PS and whathaveyou because I just think they've got too much of a juvenile look and feel. I don't know if there's a NASCAR game for consoles, but the PC version is spectacular. I've just about finished putting a new PC together; maybe I'll start an Off Topic thread with it's specs, and I can't wait to get back into gaming. While I realize these consoles may/will have dual functionality, I just don't find anything mind-blowing about them. JMO though.

2 years ago I would have agreed with you. But you really ought to check out the new console racers. Some are pretty arcade like with limited damage, and wonky physics. However, there are several now on the market that have very good damage modeling, and the physics are as good as a PC. Plus with the MS wheel, you get force feedback, and shifting capabilities via paddles on the wheel. Check out my above post for some UBER racing setups, and you will be suprised.

The capabilites of the consoles now would require a multi thousand PC to equal the graphics output for a fraction of the cost.

I don't think the NASCAR is good for the console though. EA has pretty much ruined the feel. Papyrus was and will be the best even though they haven't made a game in years. It's still pretty much the gold standard for NASCAR

[Mr Peabody]

The MS deal is only for 18 months, do you all think this being temporary, possibily, makes any difference?

I for one have not downloaded music and I won't DL movies either, it's a royal pain in the butt.

I wonder if Onkyo's new HD-DVD player will still be out at the price of $899.00 and in light of current events, I wonder if Denon's BR players will still hit at $1 & 2k.

[Woochifer]

The MS deal is only for 18 months, do you all think this being temporary, possibily, makes any difference?

I for one have not downloaded music and I won't DL movies either, it's a royal pain in the butt.

Supposedly, there are a lot of exemptions and loopholes that Paramount can use if they choose to do so, and this agreement specifically exempts Steven Spielberg (who is on record as a Blu-ray supporter, and has prohibited Universal from releasing any of his movies on HD-DVD only), so titles like Saving Private Ryan and War of the Worlds might still come out on Blu-ray.

As for the difference that 18 months makes, I think a lot in this market can change in 18 months and 18 months is definitely long enough for HD-DVD to force Blu-ray into a dual format compromise (or for Blu-ray to maintain its market lead). Right now, Warner's holding a lot of the cards, and they've been trying to steer the market towards dual format support. The current situation gives them a lot of leverage particularly with the Blu-ray Association, because if they drop Blu-ray, they would basically force the market into an impasse.

This Paramount deal basically ensures that HD-DVD will survive another 18 months, but what happens thereafter is anyone's guess. I think that without Paramount going HD-DVD exclusive, that format would have been a goner inside of 18 months.

I used to think that HD downloads were the wave of the future, but if the tight time and use restrictions on Xbox Live HD downloads are typical of how these HD downloading services will work, then it will have minimal impact, except with rentals and PPV. Just think of all the pissed off parents who'd have to pay yet another fee when their kids want to watch Finding Nemo for the 30th time! Downloads won't compete in the same space as disc media unless they have no time and viewing limits.

But, I gotta disagree that downloading will be a pain. Except for the downloading time, it's not much different than using a DVR, and once you get a set-top box configured for your internet connection, it should actually be simpler than using a PC application. The only drawback is that with most household broadband speeds, it's far from "on demand" and in a society of instant gratification, waiting one to four hours for a file to download before being able to watch a movie might be enough to keep HD downloading from taking over the market. And even then, users are still constricted by their drive space.

I wonder if Onkyo's new HD-DVD player will still be out at the price of $899.00 and in light of current events, I wonder if Denon's BR players will still hit at $1 & 2k.

Considering that Toshiba's still selling an $800 HD-DVD player model, Onkyo's player would not be too far out of line pricewise if it has some compelling features or performance improvements. It would not surprise me if Denon sticks with that price structure for their Blu-ray players, considering that models from the mass market models from the likes of Sony and Philips are only now hitting the $500 list price. How long Denon will keep those players at that price I think is the real question. Five years ago, Denon only had one DVD player model that sold for less than $800, and even now, their two flagship models still sell for more than $1,000. So, there is room in the market for higher end Blu-ray players (that is the market can grow fast enough to support a wider variety of models and price points).

[Robert-The-Rambler]

So what are the 4 rooms that you have it set up in and do you have them all connected to TV's or just the one?

I have a refurbished D2(same as A2) model downstairs in the "main" high wattage setup I talked about previously that is connected to my 65" 1080i Hitachi CRT RPTV. In my living room I am running my original A1 with a 52" CRT RPTV from GE and I'm using 5.1 analog outputs.. Currently in my bedroom I have a refurbished A1 running in a 5.1 setup via analog outputs connect to a 50" RCA Scenium DLP 720p TV.

My 4th HD-DVD player I haven't set up yet. It is the A20 and I plan on using it with my Sanyo PLV-Z5 LCD projector also downstairs with all the other gear. Yes it is overkill but it wil be a lot of fun.

BTW, 2 of the players, the refurbished ones, were only about $200 at Tigerdirect.com.

[pixelthis]

Personally I am elated at the news.

While I am just as disatisfied as most that there is a format war in the first place, with HD DVD players coming down in price all of the time, I think this creates a very *good* market for the consumer.

This announcement is gargantuan, and changes the dynamic entirely. I will not predict an HD DVD win, but I would say this announcement actually now gives HD DVD the upper hand in "the war" with an eventual dual-format player result highly likely. I believe this due to the large price differential between the cost of the two formats' respective players, coupled with the recent seeming destruction of the lame combo HD DVD/DVD discs that put HD DVD at a price disadvantage on the software side. With these two developments in hand, HD DVD is well poised to start attracting the average joe at the store. I also believe retailers will have to start to create more shelf space for HD DVD titles and players... It is happy days in the HD DVD camp indeed!

All of the above said, I too was shocked at Paramount's decision. Apart from the already speculated financial arrangement, I too see no reason why they would do this... I guess HD DVD put up some cash, but it may have been the best investment they could have made for long-term survival.

So PixelThis... Still making predictions of HD DVD's immenent demise? :-) Like I have said previously, I believe both formats can survive long-term, and there will be no "winner" (except the consumer). It is still too early to make predictions with any real certanty.

---Dave

Be great if they could, but I doubt it.
Let me say that when I refer to "downloading" I am primarily reffering to video on demand, or VOD, movies over the net still have a ways to go.
Whenever there is a "win" in a battle its just that, a win in a battle, not the WAR.
And blu-ray still outsells HDDVD by a wide margin, and most are still favoring blu-ray.
And if Microsoft is behind this then they are effectively punching themselves in the face,
since Blu-ray is a much better medium for computers (more storage space)
Personally I perfer Blu-ray, technically its much better, however I also favored
beta-max, but predicted its demise, it was clear early on they wouldnt beat VHS.
One really has nothing to do with the other.
But I will not support either one just yet, in the area where it counts... financially.
This is because Microsoft came out with a great HD format, I even have a few movies
on it, however it committed the cardinal sin, you didn't need a new player for it, just a
decent computer. Dedicated players would have been cheap. But nobodsy went for it because they want to sell players, and HT types want a new "toy".
So when one of these crashes and burns and dies a stinking death I will then (maybe)
jump on board and get a player, and begin the much more expensive task of upgrading my collection (the BIRDS, blues brothers, chasing amy, body heat, indiana jones collection, cinema paradiso, halloween)
Maybe by then these classics, as well as a few others will be out in that format

[Rich-n-Texas]

And why exactly (besides exaggeration) do you have 4 HD-DVD players???

I wouldn't put it past him PS. Remember this:
Pictures of my Home Theater with 8 Behringer EP2500s

[GMichael]

Well if money is no object get your ear on the phone and dial this outfit out. You really cant get more realistic without the car than this for your 360!!

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/costs-mor...ity-269325.php

Or perhaps this setup would better fit your budget:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/someone-h...tup-263810.php

You may want to see if some video stores in your area rent machines (PS3, 360) and try them out for a week.

Also, if you like realistic the PS3 flagship racing game Gran Tourismo is long on pretty, short on realistic. Apparently they cant show damage modeling on the cars, (something to do with mfgs of the car not wanting damage...I'm not making this up). So if you hit a wall at 175mph, you just bounce.

The 360 doesn't have the same damage constraints as the PS3 for some reason. I find it a bit more realistic in that fashion.

Forza 2...hit a wall at 175, you'll be ejected as your car splinters around you. Same with DIRt. Check out the video here:

http://xboxmovies.teamxbox.com/xbox-...lay-Trailer-2/

Its impressive in the box, but if you d/l and watch full screen its even better. Then imagine with surround sound. If you are in car, you can hear the rocks hitting the undercarrige.

Unfortunately, money is an object. Thanks for the cool links though.

[Feanor]

Wake me up when it's over Since I'm working with a 27" CRT I find it hard to care (-- meanwhile my wife buys standard DVDs: what's the premium for HD anyway?)

I bought cassette vs. 8-track in circa 1970: won on that one. Oh yeah, I bought Beta back in '83: lost on that one. I'm holding off.

[Groundbeef]

Unfortunately, money is an object. Thanks for the cool links though.

Well, if money is an object, head over here for a more modest injection of realism into your games:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x...ssracingwheel/

However, there are several other websites that sell it for a bit less. I think the one in BB actually comes with a free game...so thats a bonus. The Force Feedback is a nice feature, and lets you "feel" the rumble of the road. As a bonus, with an adapter it will work with any PC driving games you have as well.

'Wireless' is a bit misleading as well. The controller is 'wireless' from the console, but it does require an outlet to power the rumble and such.

BTW did you happen to check out the video?

[GMichael]

Well, if money is an object, head over here for a more modest injection of realism into your games:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x...ssracingwheel/

However, there are several other websites that sell it for a bit less. I think the one in BB actually comes with a free game...so thats a bonus. The Force Feedback is a nice feature, and lets you "feel" the rumble of the road. As a bonus, with an adapter it will work with any PC driving games you have as well.

'Wireless' is a bit misleading as well. The controller is 'wireless' from the console, but it does require an outlet to power the rumble and such.

BTW did you happen to check out the video?

Thanks, I'll poke around to see what's available.

No, can't view videos at work. No downloads aloud. I'll check it out at home later, if wifey gives up the computer for a minute.

[PeruvianSkies]

I wouldn't put it past him PS. Remember this:
Pictures of my Home Theater with 8 Behringer EP2500s

How could I forget the 8X8 room with 4,000 watts of sheer noise.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I check back in on that thread every once-in-a-while when I'm feeling like my cable routing is lacking...

[PeruvianSkies]

I check back in on that thread every once-in-a-while when I'm feeling like my cable routing is lacking...

I shall now look back at this thread when I need a great laugh!

[Mr Peabody]

The Blu-ray supporters are out putting a spin on things. There is a new Blu-ray disc factory open in Spokane, WA. The company says HD-DVD is desperate.

One source says Paramount only released 33 titles on Blu-ray anyway, compared to MGM's 38 titles in 6 months with 29 more slated to come out. They explain Universal, the one time sole HD-DVD studio, bombed at the box office this summer so they didn't have anything to offer going into the 4th quarter, so the HD-DVD promo group paid the $150M for exclusive rights to Transformers and Shrek 3 and any potential blockbusters in the next 18 months. So let's see if these titles can do what previous HD-DVD releases couldn't, which is to sell HD-DVD players.

[PeruvianSkies]

The Blu-ray supporters are out putting a spin on things. There is a new Blu-ray disc factory open in Spokane, WA. The company says HD-DVD is desperate.

One source says Paramount only released 33 titles on Blu-ray anyway, compared to MGM's 38 titles in 6 months with 29 more slated to come out. They explain Universal, the one time sole HD-DVD studio, bombed at the box office this summer so they didn't have anything to offer going into the 4th quarter, so the HD-DVD promo group paid the $150M for exclusive rights to Transformers and Shrek 3 and any potential blockbusters in the next 18 months. So let's see if these titles can do what previous HD-DVD releases couldn't, which is to sell HD-DVD players.

On one hand I appreciate Blu-ray and HD-DVD going all out and trying to win this war, but at the same time I hope that they are not relying on gimmicks to do so and that they are both working to deliver a truly superior format to the other, which if they both promise that they initially said, I think Blu-ray has the upper advantage, but are the spending their money right now doing research and development or simply trying to out market the other? One has to wonder.

[musicman1999]

On one hand I appreciate Blu-ray and HD-DVD going all out and trying to win this war, but at the same time I hope that they are not relying on gimmicks to do so and that they are both working to deliver a truly superior format to the other, which if they both promise that they initially said, I think Blu-ray has the upper advantage, but are the spending their money right now doing research and development or simply trying to out market the other? One has to wonder.

It is sadly all about marketing.It does not matter if a product is good or not as long as people believe that it is.Example,Monster Cable,a poor quality product that people are willing to overpay for because they believe they are good quality.

bill

[drseid]

The Blu-ray supporters are out putting a spin on things. There is a new Blu-ray disc factory open in Spokane, WA. The company says HD-DVD is desperate.

One source says Paramount only released 33 titles on Blu-ray anyway, compared to MGM's 38 titles in 6 months with 29 more slated to come out. They explain Universal, the one time sole HD-DVD studio, bombed at the box office this summer so they didn't have anything to offer going into the 4th quarter, so the HD-DVD promo group paid the $150M for exclusive rights to Transformers and Shrek 3 and any potential blockbusters in the next 18 months. So let's see if these titles can do what previous HD-DVD releases couldn't, which is to sell HD-DVD players.

The latest shoe to drop is the Warner top exec who was in charge of the dual-format BD/HD DVD discs (I think they are calling it Total HD) just resigned. Some are now saying that this could be a signal that Warner is going to go exclusive to one format or the other... I personally have no idea if there is any validity to this, but if they *did* go exclusive, it would make sense that they would align themselves with HD DVD as they have in the past (and still favor to some extent). If this were to occur, then we really have a mess to sort out in this "war."... The soap opera continues...

---Dave

[Rich-n-Texas]

2 years ago I would have agreed with you. But you really ought to check out the new console racers. Some are pretty arcade like with limited damage, and wonky physics. However, there are several now on the market that have very good damage modeling, and the physics are as good as a PC. Plus with the MS wheel, you get force feedback, and shifting capabilities via paddles on the wheel. Check out my above post for some UBER racing setups, and you will be suprised.

The capabilites of the consoles now would require a multi thousand PC to equal the graphics output for a fraction of the cost.

I don't think the NASCAR is good for the console though. EA has pretty much ruined the feel. Papyrus was and will be the best even though they haven't made a game in years. It's still pretty much the gold standard for NASCAR

I just finished putting together a gaming rig for a bit over $1K, and played the Bioshock demo last night. Sent chills up my spine with the incredible detail. What Doom 3 started this game has exploited to the max. I don't know about multi-thousand $$$ to get equal eye-candy but if you're talking about console games in hi def well... maybe maybe not. My nVidia graphics card and Acer widescreen LCD are HDCP compliant and I'm running at 1680 x 1050 native resolution. Total cost for those two was < $400.

You can play NASCAR with a force-feedback wheel and peddal controller too on a PC, and no, I didn't know EA took the game over (I lost interest in NASCAR after Dale died).

Anyway, I don't want to start a PC/Console debate, but yeah, I haven't sat in front of an XBOX or PS in about two years, so...

[Mr Peabody]

I did see that was the rumor that Nickerson was stepping down, has it been confirmed? He was an outspoken proponent for HD-DVD. The dual format that WB proposed was delayed and now this. If WB decides to only support one format that would definitely tip the scales which ever way they go. If it's HD-DVD I think the war will just rage on without a decisive winner and the HD formats may become just a nitch. Because I think Sony, Fox & Disney by themselves could support BR. Warner with Paramount & Universal should certainly be able to support HD-DVD. Will anyone join Toshiba and Onkyo with new HD-DVD hardware...... If Warner goes Blu-ray it could put HD--DVD back on death roll.