Blockbuster to favor Blu-ray HD discs over DVD format

[Woochifer]

Let me say I am not a huge classic movie collector but I am the type of person who actually paid more money for the B&W version of the Cristmas Carol, opposed to the cheaper colorized version. This is on VHS. On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would rush to buy old movies on a HD format. If my VHS version of the Cristmas Carol breaks or gets noisy, I may replace it some day but I have to wonder how much better B&W could look in HD. I don't even want to buy DVD's that aren't 5.1 although I do have some because I didn't have the movie or it was a great price. I know I'm a minority but I just refuse to duplicate movies when a new format comes out. I really didn't buy many movies until DVD came along. Actually, if I buy movies at all it has to have an entertainment value that will allow me to be able to watch again in the future. This tends to be the action/Sci-Fi type for me. I guess that puts me in the BR camp.

I don't think you're in the minority on this point. The issue of double dipping IMO is yet another reason I think Blu-ray will ultimately prevail. The biggest selling Blu-ray and HD-DVD titles are concentrated in concurrent and recent releases. Even though these new formats represent a big leap in resolution, this indicates that consumers would generally rather use their budget on titles that they don't already own on DVD.

HD-DVD cannot win a format war by simply letting Universal unload its library titles faster than any of the Blu-ray studios. It might prop up HD-DVD for the short-term, but it won't sustain the format so long as the format maintains fewer exclusives. The new release market, using box office performance as an indicator, will remain dominated by Blu-ray for the foreseeable future. Universal might have a breakout year and create a formidable release slate for HD-DVD, but that might not be enough if Sony, Fox, or Disney keep pace.

What would keep things whirling as Blockbuster decided to do BR and Hollywood or some other large chain decided to do HD-DVD. What if HD-DVD campt discounted HD movies to the rental chain, maybe as an exclusive, to make it worth their while to jump in.

Maybe. But, it would be a really hard sell since that would mean cutting out the three studios (Fox, Sony, and Disney) that accounted for 50% of last year's box office take. Much easier to only do without Universal's release slate.

[bobsticks]

...this indicates that consumers would generally rather use their budget on titles that they don't already own on DVD.

I don't think that this point can be touched upon enough. My own experience with HD-DVD is that the limitations of the original source material is quite evident on some of my "old favorites". Neither Caddyshack nor Goodfellas offered enough of an improvement over the DVD versions to truly wet my appetite for explorations into the back catalogue.

Do I regret the decision to go HD-DVD? Nah, it was a buck-fifty add on to the X360 and newer titles like The Departed, Children of Men, and Batman Begins are solid, but I have to admit that if I were in the market for a dedicated player it would probably be Blu-Ray if only because it offers more of the new releases in which I'm interested.

I would be surprised if many X-Box owners and early adopters didn't feel the same way.

[drseid]

Let me say I am not a huge classic movie collector but I am the type of person who actually paid more money for the B&W version of the Cristmas Carol, opposed to the cheaper colorized version. This is on VHS. On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would rush to buy old movies on a HD format. If my VHS version of the Cristmas Carol breaks or gets noisy, I may replace it some day but I have to wonder how much better B&W could look in HD.

Classics can look *a lot* better is the answer. Take my previous example of Casablanca and look at the HD DVD version compared to the DVD version... Just no comparison IMO really. The Searchers is another good example... That said, soundwise I would tend to agree that it is dificult to improve much there.

In my case, the reason why I buy "old" movies in HD (or DVD for that matter) is I feel in many cases they are better than the new stuff that is coming out. Of course there are many exceptions and I will buy those new films just as readily as any of the classics that I tend to go for. I just find that a lot of the newer stuff never gets watched by me again, so I pay money for a disc that gathers dust... Again, just one person's choices here, but I think I represent a much greater percentage of film *collectors* than many think. New movies may indeed appeal to many other film purchasers, but I don't call many of those folks film "collectors" in the sense I am talking about as a general rule.

Film collectors are a small segment of the population of video purchasers and as such they (we) will not be the factor that determines which format comes out on top most likely... At the end of the day, a sale is a sale (or a rental is a rental) and if the new stuff draws the most sales/rentals, what classics collectors like myself do will most likely be irrelevant from a macro perspective. From a micro prespective, it could determine if the classics get released by either format, as it shows there is a demand for those titles by "X" amount of people willing to buy (and if "X" equates to enough sales for a decent profit, someone will release the given films in time).

---Dave

[Woochifer]

I don't think that this point can be touched upon enough. My own experience with HD-DVD is that the limitations of the original source material is quite evident on some of my "old favorites". Neither Caddyshack nor Goodfellas offered enough of an improvement over the DVD versions to truly wet my appetite for explorations into the back catalogue.

Do I regret the decision to go HD-DVD? Nah, it was a buck-fifty add on to the X360 and newer titles like The Departed, Children of Men, and Batman Begins are solid, but I have to admit that if I were in the market for a dedicated player it would probably be Blu-Ray if only because it offers more of the new releases in which I'm interested.

I would be surprised if many X-Box owners and early adopters didn't feel the same way.

At least the add-on drive is not a huge up front investment, and it's a tied to a device that has other useful functions. I look at HD-DVD in much the same way as anyone interested in SACD or DVD-A -- if there are certain titles that you absolutely must have in the higher resolution format, then by all means go for it. But, go into the transaction knowing that title selection and availability might not expand by much in the future.

Even if Universal goes neutral and Blu-ray wins the format war, I think that Warner, Paramount, and Universal will continue to issue HD-DVD titles for a little while, which would buy time for the Blu-ray player prices to tumble down to more attractive levels.

In my case, the reason why I buy "old" movies in HD (or DVD for that matter) is I feel in many cases they are better than the new stuff that is coming out. Of course there are many exceptions and I will buy those new films just as readily as any of the classics that I tend to go for. I just find that a lot of the newer stuff never gets watched by me again, so I pay money for a disc that gathers dust... Again, just one person's choices here, but I think I represent a much greater percentage of film *collectors* than many think. New movies may indeed appeal to many other film purchasers, but I don't call many of those folks film "collectors" in the sense I am talking about as a general rule.

Film collectors are a small segment of the population of video purchasers and as such they (we) will not be the factor that determines which format comes out on top most likely... At the end of the day, a sale is a sale (or a rental is a rental) and if the new stuff draws the most sales/rentals, what classics collectors like myself do will most likely be irrelevant from a macro perspective. From a micro prespective, it could determine if the classics get released by either format, as it shows there is a demand for those titles by "X" amount of people willing to buy (and if "X" equates to enough sales for a decent profit, someone will release the given films in time).

You're touching on a fundamental market question that gets at the more problematic issue that Blu-ray will run into even if it wins the format war with HD-DVD -- is the market for HD resolution big enough to supplant the now-entrenched DVD format?

When the DVD came out, it provided multiple upgrades over VHS aside from the improvement in video resolution. The DVD offered up 5.1 audio, anamorphic widescreen, random access search, integration with PC drives, interactive capabilities, a compact form factor, and supplemental features that were previously only available on Laserdisc. Anyone with a regular TV could benefit from the many improvements that the DVD provided over VHS.

With HD-DVD and Blu-ray, the difference primarily comes down to the picture resolution (and to a lesser degree, the audio resolution), and here you're still talking about a market in which less than half of households own a HDTV. Without the HDTV, there's no immediate incentive to upgrade (unless you own a HDMI receiver and want lossless audio).

Even before these HD formats came to market, some analysts speculated that the DVD was already "good enough" for the majority of consumers. Obviously this will change once HDTV ownership increases. But, I don't see HD-DVD and Blu-ray creating a mad rush of people looking to replace their DVD libraries. Consumers might replace selected favorites, but this won't be like the DVD format, which fundamentally changed the home video market by shifting consumers more towards purchasing rather than renting movies. The DVD greatly expanded the number of video collectors. But, if someone has already accumulated hundreds or thousands of DVDs, I doubt that even a majority of those titles will get upgraded.

[Mr Peabody]

Dave, I definitely agree that the classic movies sure offer more substance. Now that AMC really don't play much in the way of classics anymore, I may be forced to pick up more on disc. We still have TMC but I really don't watch that much TV. If I am going to drive 5 channels plus a sub, I want a movie that will fire them up. It's just two different types of viewing. If I watch an old movie, I usually just play it through the TV speakers.

Some day down the road when NTSC gets turned off and people have to go HD, I don't see the point of a DVD player anymore as the HD players are backward compatible. And then, why continue with the DVD standard discs? Of course, that wasn't the scenario with SACD/DVD-A, was it. Man, I hate it when I come up with a counterpoint to my own point. Ah, but no one was turning off CD. DVD users will at least have to have Progressive scan and component or HDMI, or some way to down scale. This could all be a long time down the road though as a NTSC tube TV can sustain some one for a lot of years. It just depends on how consumers will deal with the big turn off.

[PeruvianSkies]

Deserve to be discovered by new generations and it's a crime when they show poor prints, or cut versions of classic films, especially when they show the P&S versions....arrggg....who can watch it like that and really love it? Not me.

[Woochifer]

Dave, I definitely agree that the classic movies sure offer more substance. Now that AMC really don't play much in the way of classics anymore, I may be forced to pick up more on disc. We still have TMC but I really don't watch that much TV. If I am going to drive 5 channels plus a sub, I want a movie that will fire them up. It's just two different types of viewing. If I watch an old movie, I usually just play it through the TV speakers.

Ditto for Bravo (at least in the U.S.). What was once a place to catch interesting movies across several genres is now nothing more than a depository for designer reality shows.

The viewing on those channels, especially TMC, might get more interesting once they go HD. Several of the heavyweight expanded cable/satellite channels like A&E, FX, MTV, and CNN are going HD before the end of the year, and it's only a matter of time before the majority of the others add HD broadcasts.

Some day down the road when NTSC gets turned off and people have to go HD, I don't see the point of a DVD player anymore as the HD players are backward compatible. And then, why continue with the DVD standard discs? Of course, that wasn't the scenario with SACD/DVD-A, was it. Man, I hate it when I come up with a counterpoint to my own point. Ah, but no one was turning off CD. DVD users will at least have to have Progressive scan and component or HDMI, or some way to down scale. This could all be a long time down the road though as a NTSC tube TV can sustain some one for a lot of years. It just depends on how consumers will deal with the big turn off.

Another angle to this will be the degree to which retailers tolerate going with multiple formats. Historically, retailers have hated carrying multiple versions for music and video releases. If Blu-ray or HD-DVD eventually builds up enough market share, then the retailers very well could accelerate the DVD format's demise by phasing the format out. This would be no different than when major retailers started clearing out their VHS inventory, even before the DVD had passed VHS in market share (though judging by the DVD's sales growth, it had by then become obvious that the DVD was well on its way to pushing VHS out the door). Or when music stores started dropping vinyl in order to expand their CD sections.

However, if Blu-ray or HD-DVD sales momentum stalls or does not otherwise meet projections, then you might see retailers dial back on the shelf space that they allocate to the HD formats. This would be a similar situation to SACD and DVD-A, which came to market and got some major retailers on board, but the shelf space for those formats never expanded, and those sections have either languished or gotten phased out altogether.

Also the pending phaseout is simply a phase out of analog broadcast signals. Cable companies can continue to retransmit the contents over their analog NTSC cable systems, and that alone will keep the millions of older TVs from instantly turning into oversized doorstops. The mandate is not for HD resolution, but more for the implementation of digital TV broadcasts. A station can cutoff its analog broadcasts, and still keep its OTA digital broadcasts entirely at non-HD resolution.

[Mr Peabody]

When they put old B&W movies on HD do they keep them B&W? Or, do they colorize them thinking they are making a big improvement?

[Woochifer]

When they put old B&W movies on HD do they keep them B&W? Or, do they colorize them thinking they are making a big improvement?

In all fairness, I don't recall that TMC ever broadcast colorized movies (although Turner stablemate TBS very often showed the colorized versions), and I don't think that the colorizing process gets done at HD resolution anyway.

[PeruvianSkies]

When they put old B&W movies on HD do they keep them B&W? Or, do they colorize them thinking they are making a big improvement?

When the colorize a film I just watch it on my 42" B&W Plasma TV set. lol.

[drseid]

When they put old B&W movies on HD do they keep them B&W? Or, do they colorize them thinking they are making a big improvement?

Nope, B&W stays B&W.

---Dave

[pixelthis]

In the old days before video games when men fought wars to stay occupied lines of soldiers would meet on an open field and basically "push" against one another.
This is where the phrase "holding the line" came from.
Nobody wants toshiba to succeed and their "line" is failing, the blockbuster announcement
is just a few more of tosh's soldiers getting trampled.
Computer types want the storage, peeps selling old reruns of flipper or happy days want to keep the no of discs to a minimum.
And collectors and renters are a different market from each other, one collects classics, concerts, tv episodes and the renters rent whatever cannon fodder comes out on tuesday.
Anyway I haave seen this before, and you'll be surprized at how fast hd CRASHES
AND BURNS.
And the marketing wonks at toshiba know this, they are just trying to figure out how to exit
with the maximum number of fingers and toes
NO way this third rate electronics company had the cahones to run up against sony

[drseid]

Nobody wants toshiba to succeed and their "line" is failing, the blockbuster announcement
is just a few more of tosh's soldiers getting trampled.
Computer types want the storage, peeps selling old reruns of flipper or happy days want to keep the no of discs to a minimum.
And collectors and renters are a different market from each other, one collects classics, concerts, tv episodes and the renters rent whatever cannon fodder comes out on tuesday.
Anyway I haave seen this before, and you'll be surprized at how fast hd CRASHES
AND BURNS.

NO way this third rate electronics company had the cahones to run up against sony

Let me be one that goes on record that *I* want Toshiba to succeed...

As for Toshiba going up against Sony... Last time I checked DVD did pretty good. How quickly people forget. :-)

---Dave

[Mr Peabody]

Dave; I notice you have both HD & Blu ray disc players, care to share which you prefer and why? Maybe your hands on experience of the pros & cons of each. Thanks

[drseid]

Dave; I notice you have both HD & Blu ray disc players, care to share which you prefer and why? Maybe your hands on experience of the pros & cons of each. Thanks

I prefer HD DVD, but I would say it is more a function of the player and releases rather than HD DVD being the "superior" format.

I guess my HD DVD loyalty started when Toshiba came out with the HD-A1s at a very reasonable entry price for the format, and then their relentless customer support afterwards through automatic software updates (downloadable direct to the player with discs sent without having to ask too) coupled with a strong slate of films that appealed to collectors like myself.

In the case of my Sony Blu-ray player, I payed twice as much and it still does not perform as well as my Toshiba. Sony also has truly had *awful* customer support using foreign call centers where you are placed on hold for 20 minutes plus (one call I had this happen twice), and the rep cannot even understand you (and vice-versa). Anytime a software update is available Sony never lets the customer know, and you have to request a disc instead of it being sent to you automatically like Toshiba (plus there is no download direct to the player like the A1 as there is no internet connection). I have found that the S-1 is also a very poor upsampling DVD player (whereas the A1 is steller in this regard --although both have trouble reading some DVDs). Software released for Blu-ray has been of some interest recently to me, but nowhere near that of the HD DVD releases. The main "pro" here (and it is a BIG one) is Blu-ray has much better studio support.

All of the above said, both players (and formats) were rushed to market and are just now really hitting their stride. I could easily live with either format in the end as both produce equally good pictures when they are on their respective games. I have found on the audio side HD DVD has had superior releases, but that will change in time as Blu-ray also starts to take advantage of the Dolby TrueHD soundtracks (my S-1 now can play Dolby TrueHD through the latest upgrade).

The bottom line is it comes down to customer service and strategy in order to get my support. HD DVD was thinking of early adopters with HD DVD... offering superior after-the-sale support, and a release slate that catered to collectors at reasonable prices. Blu-ray came out of the gate with inferior quality releases (again based on my personal film preferences) and a sky high greedy price skimming strategy. For me supporting HD DVD was an easy decision early on.

Now that Blu-ray has had a chance to work out the kinks, it is pretty much on par with HD DVD and the release slate is definitely branching out with Warner going dual format a while back. So in the end, I still am routing for HD DVD for its initial support and lower prices, but I would actually be happy with both formats surviving in the end...

---Dave

[Mr Peabody]

The bottomline for me will be availability of movies I'd like to watch but the customer service you got was very cool from Toshiba. That really gives me pause for thought. I am one to give major points for customer service.

I bought a Sony ns975, I think was the model, and returned it. It developed issues. I learned that the unit had a problem with the first ones that hit. But I had to find that out on the internet, Sony nor the dealers would fess up. If they had been honest about it and offered to send it back for the fix, I would have kept it. I liked the machine and really couldn't find anything I liked better. That coupled with a problem I had with my Sony HD tube TV has me a bit put off with their products. The only thing that keeps them going is their exaggerated rep and when you do get a good Sony, it's a darn good one.

[pixelthis]

Let me be one that goes on record that *I* want Toshiba to succeed...

As for Toshiba going up against Sony... Last time I checked DVD did pretty good. How quickly people forget. :-)

---Dave

YEAH, and sony was a major supporter (how quickly they forget)
These arent really two "formats", both have the same type "software", its the hardware
that is different, one lower capacity than another, which is bad for toshiba, since
even the companies supporting them (all couple of them) are authoring their stuff in a format that will be easily duped to blu-ray, which means that the rats will be able to jump ship as soon as the deck chairs start floating.
AND I dont really have anything against toshiba, even tho EVERYTHING I ever bought from them either broke or was mediocre.
A friend recently got a tosh dvd player and it looked a awfully lot like a OPPO player.
Maybe they gave up on trying to build one

[drseid]

The bottomline for me will be availability of movies I'd like to watch but the customer service you got was very cool from Toshiba. That really gives me pause for thought. I am one to give major points for customer service.

I bought a Sony ns975, I think was the model, and returned it. It developed issues. I learned that the unit had a problem with the first ones that hit. But I had to find that out on the internet, Sony nor the dealers would fess up. If they had been honest about it and offered to send it back for the fix, I would have kept it. I liked the machine and really couldn't find anything I liked better. That coupled with a problem I had with my Sony HD tube TV has me a bit put off with their products. The only thing that keeps them going is their exaggerated rep and when you do get a good Sony, it's a darn good one.

Agreed. Sony certanly can make good products when they want to, and I have bought my share (I just added a new Bravia 40V2500 LCD for the bedroom only a week ago). When they are "on" they can make great stuff... but their reliabilty is not as good as it used to be and when things require customer support forget about it. That is my main gripe.

---Dave

[drseid]

YEAH, and sony was a major supporter (how quickly they forget)
These arent really two "formats", both have the same type "software", its the hardware
that is different, one lower capacity than another, which is bad for toshiba, since
even the companies supporting them (all couple of them) are authoring their stuff in a format that will be easily duped to blu-ray, which means that the rats will be able to jump ship as soon as the deck chairs start floating.
AND I dont really have anything against toshiba, even tho EVERYTHING I ever bought from them either broke or was mediocre.
A friend recently got a tosh dvd player and it looked a awfully lot like a OPPO player.
Maybe they gave up on trying to build one

Toshiba has plenty of major companies supporting HD DVD, but they don't have Sony (of course), Disney and Fox. Blu-ray is missing Universal. The rest of the major studios are format neutral, supporting both. Still no question Blu-ray has the upper hand here.

As for Toshiba quality, their HD-A1 is built like a tank (but like my Sony BDP-S1 Blu-ray player was glitchy at release), and I had great success with some of Toshiba's earlier stuff like their initial DVD models and the like. I have not tried any of their DVD players in the past 4-5 years as I was using a trusty Denon DVD-1600 that worked like a charm until HD DVD and Blu-ray got me hooked... If the new Toshibas resemble (and play like) an Oppo, that would not really be a bad thing as the Oppo is a great DVD player. The larger Toshiba TVs have pretty much been completely outsourced to the best of my knowledge, and I believe the quality is not anywhere near what it once was unfortunately. I will say that whatever I think (positive or negative) about their electronics quality, their customer suport has been second to none in my experience.

---Dave

[Mr Peabody]

Let me say one thing about customer service and then I will try to stop as to not hijack. Our cable company, Charter, outsourced all their phone assistance to off shore quasi English speaking CSR's. This became their #1 complaint. A recent poll showed Charter's customer service and peoples opinion of them were record breaking low. I prefer to spend my money with companies that will support people in my country with jobs, however, Charter switched back to English speaking CSR's, BUT, totally missed the point. The English assistors they are using now are less informed than the quasi-English speaking ones. It literally took me 6 phone calls in a 24 hour period just to change my programming service. It sounded like they took high school kids off the beach and turned them loose on the phone with no training. CEO's get paid more money in one year than most will see in a life time yet they can't figure out it is more cost effective to train your assistors to limit the incoming phone calls and keep your customers happy and using your product. I switched to a local internet provider for just this reason. What amazes me is how the public will still put up with all of this to believe they are saving a buck. It's this contentment with being bullied and letting the carrot dangling in front of us that has us at the mercy of mass merchants and large corporations who care less what we think because they can do whatever they want and count on people still falling at their feet. Gone are the Mom & Pop shops who cared because we were their livelihood.

Uuh, ok, I'm better now. I'll just go get a drink of water.

[Mr Peabody]

Dave, have you compared the analog out to the digital out sound of either HD player? It would be very convenient vor me to use the digital out but I'd have to go through some pains to get to the back and connect the analog outs. But if the newer HD sound is noticeably better, it could be worth the pain.

I really am looking hard at either the Sony s300 or Panasonic dmp bd10a. I believe with the Panny there is a potential of 10 free movies. 5 from them and 5 from a general Blu ray promo. I have to research how that works. Anyone else interested the info is on www.bluray.com

[nightflier]

Well, I don't particularly go to BB very often, but this weekend I just happened to be at two different stores. At both, the Blu-Ray section was 3/4 of the isle and the HD-DVD was 1/4. I also talked to a few customers who happened to wander by. Ironically they where all HD-DVD owners, two of them owned the Xbox player. One customer complained that there were no good HD-DVD titles, but the others used their HD-DVD players more as a regular DVD player, and so where not that all that concerned about the situation.

I also stopped by Blockbuster to return a rental (regular DVD) and while I was at the counter I asked the rep why they had decided to back Blu-Ray exclusively. He said that it was strictly a question of economics, as he put it. HD-DVD just didn't have the movies people wanted to rent, by which he meant the new releases and action flicks.

I really am looking hard at either the Sony s300 or Panasonic dmp bd10a. I believe with the Panny there is a potential of 10 free movies. 5 from them and 5 from a general Blu ray promo. I have to research how that works. Anyone else interested the info is on www.bluray.com

While I haven't made up my mind that Blu-Ray has won yet, it certainly looks dire for the HD-DVD camp. I'm kind of partial to Panasonic, but the sound quality would have to be worth it for me (I also agree that sound is important to enjoying movies). Anyhow, Mr. Peabody, where on the site does it say that there are free disks to be had? I can't find anything of the sort. If this offer is valid, that's a hell of a deal considering that 10 disks could easily run to be more than $300.

I also wonder how much that upcoming Denon Blu-Ray player will be and whether it will play SACDs.

[Mr Peabody]

I doubt if Denon will do SACD, they were in the DVD-A camp.

I wondered into BB today too. I wanted to see the Panasonic bd10a. They didn't have any, the guy said BB probably only has them available on the web. American or Ultimate didn't have them either. They will probably sell off the old bd10 before trying to bring in the new ones. BB did have a demo playing, if an actual side by side looks like that then the formats should take off but I have to wonder if there isn't a slant to one side when this thing was made. The SD side looked pretty bad in comparison. They were showing a split screen of scenes from movies, on the left SD, on the right BD. The announcer would mention to look at certain aspects of the scene. The BD scene from Chicken Little looked incredible.

I posted a thread about the free Blu ray discs but you can find the BDA offer on www.bluray.com, look under the news stories, click on read more, then some where after the story there is a link to the offer form. I did a Google search for the Panasonic deal they were talking about and found that the movies will be right in the box. You get what you get and everybody gets the same.

[Woochifer]

I doubt if Denon will do SACD, they were in the DVD-A camp.

Actually, Denon was one of the strongest proponents for universal players, and introduced the first players with DACs that could natively decode both SACD and DVD-A without having to build separate processor boards for each format or transcode the SACD's DSD bitstream into PCM first. They also had the iLink connections that allowed for their compatible receivers to natively decode both formats.

If you look at how their product lineups have gone for the past four years or so, Denon has consistently supported SACD alongside DVD-A, and gone to great lengths to ensure that both formats get decoded natively. Your DVD-1600 was the last Denon DVD player around the $500 price point that did not support SACD playback, and right now all of their DVD players except for the $170 DVD-1730 will play SACDs.

[Mr Peabody]

Cool, thanks for the correction. A universal player will probably hit one year and maybe Denon will be the one to do it but it looked like for now the HD movie players aren't doing SACD or DVD-A yet. BUT, I have not read the features of every player available.