Blockbuster to favor Blu-ray HD discs over DVD format

[L.J.]

LOS ANGELES - Blockbuster Inc. will rent high-definition DVDs only in the Blu-ray format in 1,450 stores when it expands its high-def offerings next month, dealing a major blow to the rival HD DVD format.

The move, being announced Monday, could be the first step in resolving a format war that has kept confused consumers from rushing to buy new DVD players until they can determine which format will dominate the market.

Blockbuster has been renting both Blu-ray and HD DVD titles in 250 stores since late last year and found that consumers were choosing Blu-ray titles more than 70 percent of the time.........

http://www.elpasotimes.com/entertainment/ci_6164939


Found this at another forum and thought I'd post it here. Any thoughts?

[kexodusc]

Found this at another forum and thought I'd post it here. Any thoughts?

Yeah, glad I didn't buy that HD-DVD player Friday - I found one that early Toshiba model on sale for $215. Looks like those things are gonna be orphans soon enough.

[PeruvianSkies]

LOS ANGELES - Blockbuster Inc. will rent high-definition DVDs only in the Blu-ray format in 1,450 stores when it expands its high-def offerings next month, dealing a major blow to the rival HD DVD format.

The move, being announced Monday, could be the first step in resolving a format war that has kept confused consumers from rushing to buy new DVD players until they can determine which format will dominate the market.

Blockbuster has been renting both Blu-ray and HD DVD titles in 250 stores since late last year and found that consumers were choosing Blu-ray titles more than 70 percent of the time.........

http://www.elpasotimes.com/entertainment/ci_6164939


Found this at another forum and thought I'd post it here. Any thoughts?

Not sure if anyone here remembers the thread where I said this awhile back, but this doesn't surprise me too much. Two reasons: PS3 and appeal factor. People tend to gravitate towards things that are eye-appealing and the color 'blue' is known to stimulate more attention than 'red' when it comes to advertising. As silly as it sounds if you walk down an aisle filled with both formats you can check to see where you are drawn in as a test. Also, PS3, whether it is dominating xBox or not, is definitely drawing more people towards Blu-ray.

[kexodusc]

Two reasons: PS3 and appeal factor. People tend to gravitate towards things that are eye-appealing and the color 'blue' is known to stimulate more attention than 'red' when it comes to advertising. As silly as it sounds if you walk down an aisle filled with both formats you can check to see where you are drawn in as a test.

This is a major reason why most major operating systems come stock with blue window borders/backgrounds etc. Doesn't hold true when it comes to cars, for some reason.

Also, PS3, whether it is dominating xBox or not, is definitely drawing more people towards Blu-ray.

This is part of the reason too. Though the biggest reason IMO is the studio support. Fewer people will support a crippled format and I don't doubt for one minute that customers who are adopting this early were smart enough to do their homework...well the ones that have bought BluRay at least...

When you think about it...it's amazing that BluRay is winning a war of a mostly homogeneous product despite a terrible early price disadvantage on both the hardware and the software.

[PeruvianSkies]

This is a major reason why most major operating systems come stock with blue window borders/backgrounds etc. Doesn't hold true when it comes to cars, for some reason.


This is part of the reason too. Though the biggest reason IMO is the studio support. Fewer people will support a crippled format and I don't doubt for one minute that customers who are adopting this early were smart enough to do their homework...well the ones that have bougth BluRay at least...

When you think about it...it's amazing that BluRay is winning a war of a mostly homogeneous product despite a terrible early price disadvantage on both the hardware and the software.

Disney titles are ALWAYS strong sellers and the fact that Disney went with Blu-ray and although they only have a few titles out at the moment, they are going to be a strong factor later on in the war, especially once they start releasing their vault!

[nightflier]

This is a major reason why most major operating systems come stock with blue window borders/backgrounds etc. Doesn't hold true when it comes to cars, for some reason.

...that geniuses will choose green cars and I haven't seen many of those on the road lately. Maybe it's just me, but I've always associated blue with a follow-the-leader lemming-type crowd. Blue may be "pretty" but it's not really a thinking man's color, I think. Then again, maybe that's why marketers and advertising firms are pushing blue? It's the mainstream that does most of the buying & consuming (I guess geniuses know better).

Even with a/v equipment, I tend to see blue digital displays at Sharper Image, BB, K-mart, and Costco, but the higher end stuff has green or red displays (Think CJ, Arcam, Krell, etc). I'm sure there will be exceptions. PS Audio seems to like blue, but then again they are also making a big push into the mainstream with cheaper China produced goods sold through Crutchfield (another blue-camp stalwart).

Anyhow, back to the Blu-Ray / HD-DVD debate:

- What is NetFlix' take on this? (What do you know, they are in the red camp). If they were to go the other way, it would definitely add fuel to this fire.

- Will Blockbuster (blue camp) be selling all their HD-DVD stock at bargain prices?

- Was Toshiba (red camp) stock affected by the Blockbuster announcement?

- Any preliminary Walmart HD-DVD sales figures (blue company with red product - this may not work)?

Just my own observation in my own neck of the woods, but it certainly seems like the store shelves are about 75% Blu-ray, now. I'm still waiting for regular DVD prices to drop, but somehow that kind of effect is not yet trickling down.

[kexodusc]

[QUOTE=nightflier]...that geniuses will choose green cars and I haven't seen many of those on the road lately. Maybe it's just me, but I've always associated blue with a follow-the-leader lemming-type crowd. Blue may be "pretty" but it's not really a thinking man's color, I think. [QUOTE]
WTF? Based on what? Besides, Al Gore invented the internet and discovered Global Warming, and he likes Blue way more than Red.

Then again, maybe that's why marketers and advertising firms are pushing blue? It's the mainstream that does most of the buying & consuming (I guess geniuses know better).

Even with a/v equipment, I tend to see blue digital displays at Sharper Image, BB, K-mart, and Costco, but the higher end stuff has green or red displays (Think CJ, Arcam, Krell, etc). I'm sure there will be exceptions. PS Audio seems to like blue, but then again they are also making a big push into the mainstream with cheaper China produced goods sold through Crutchfield (another blue-camp stalwart).

I like Purple.

- What is NetFlix' take on this? (What do you know, they are in the red camp). If they were to go the other way, it would definitely add fuel to this fire.

Dunno, but the #1 product in one industry supporting the #1 product in another kinda makes what the #2 players do irrelevant.

- Will Blockbuster (blue camp) be selling all their HD-DVD stock at bargain prices?

At 13% of their stores or so...

- Was Toshiba (red camp) stock affected by the Blockbuster announcement?

No, it actually went up. But keep in mind the royalties to be gained off BluRay or HD-DVD licensing are insignificant next to the revenue stream and profits to be earned from selling the hardware itself. DVD showed us that. An overwhelming victory for HD-DVD would probably have about as much impact on Toshiba's stock. Either that or the market is interpreting this as a sign Toshiba will focus on something more favorable to shareholders?

- Any preliminary Walmart HD-DVD sales figures (blue company with red product - this may not work)?

I'm sure Wooch or someone will chime in with that stuff. I haven't seen BluRay or HD-DVD at the Wal-Mart's I've been in.

Just my own observation in my own neck of the woods, but it certainly seems like the store shelves are about 75% Blu-ray, now. I'm still waiting for regular DVD prices to drop, but somehow that kind of effect is not yet trickling down.

It's about 50/50 in the few I checked out, though it wasn't that long ago HD-DVD was up roughly 75/25 or so. I suspect as BluRay releases more new release movies, shelving might reflect that. I'm sure a 50% price cut in the player will help year 2 sales as well.

Man, I just looked at some old threads we had way back. A lot of us really thought HD-DVD was going to win because of the price advantage and being first to market (me included). Isn't looking so good right now.

[Woochifer]

- What is NetFlix' take on this? (What do you know, they are in the red camp). If they were to go the other way, it would definitely add fuel to this fire.

Actually, Netflix is neutral, as they already stock Blu-ray titles. Blockbuster's website also carries both HD formats, and will continue to do so.

http://www.netflix.com/Genre?sgid=24...r=LhcGenre2444

Will Blockbuster (blue camp) be selling all their HD-DVD stock at bargain prices?

Nope. The posted article says that the 250 stores that were used to test market both formats will continue to stock HD-DVD titles, as will Blockbuster's website. All that Blockbuster's announcement means is that the 1,450 new stores (this represents about 1/4 of their stores) slated to carry HD discs will only support Blu-ray.

Fast forward to this time next year, and if HD-DVD's market share erodes further, then you might see those particular Blockbuster stores (and several other outlets) clearing out their HD-DVD inventory. This is no different than when video stores began selling off their Betamax inventory in the mid-80s. (Around that time, VHS had 3-to-1 market share advantage over Beta)

Any preliminary Walmart HD-DVD sales figures (blue company with red product - this may not work)?

That info's probably more tightly guarded than the CIA. WalMart does not participate in any of the retail sales tracking services like Nielson Videoscan, and neither does Target. Most of the other major retailers do participate, and bits and pieces of that information's widely available.

Just my own observation in my own neck of the woods, but it certainly seems like the store shelves are about 75% Blu-ray, now. I'm still waiting for regular DVD prices to drop, but somehow that kind of effect is not yet trickling down.

Doubtful that regular DVD prices will push back any further than they already have, unless the format gets supplanted and stores discontinue carrying DVDs altogether. It's pretty much a stable mature market where the new releases command the higher price points, and older titles and/or older editions get marked down (stores like BB and Fry's have weekly sale prices as low as $5). If you're willing to wait a few months before buying a new DVD release, the prices do go down.

Since you're down in the OC, you might want to check out DVD Planet's retail store over in Huntington Beach sometime. Biggest selection you'll find anywhere, competitive prices, and a lot of interesting items make it onto their clearance shelf.

On that note, I think that Toshiba is doing a better job of marketing its format in places like BB, CC, Walmart, etc. I don't know why, but it just seems like Toshiba is trying a bit harder and this may be why the individual player sales are higher. Maybe it's just SoCal, but I see more Toshiba HD-DVD ads than Sony Blu-ray ones. That said, both companies could do more and to me it seems like it's a half-hearted effort all around, almost as if the companies themselves are not entirely behind their respective formats. Maybe they expect the virtues of the formats to carry the sales figures, but personally, I think they are under-estimating what average consumers know about them.

Actually, I think Toshiba finally wised up and started playing hardball. Until the past couple of months, Toshiba had been getting out maneuvered at every step. Best Buy and all those other retailers will gladly provide the prime floor space and display areas to any company willing to pony up. Toshiba's the lone player actively peddling HD-DVD, while Blu-ray has multiple manufacturers in its corner. The sheer quantity of Blu-ray player models on the market assures that Blu-ray will occupy a certain amount of shelf space. Toshiba has to be more aggressive to maintain visibility, and it seems that they've been going in that direction. Universal has been helping with an aggressive HD-DVD release schedule. In the end though, I don't think it will be enough to keep the format afloat. Blu-ray continues to command the most in-demand titles, and I don't think that will be lost on those consumers ready to buy in the next few months.

[Mr Peabody]

It's interesting that the cheaper player isn't winning. Does this say that the HD disc war will not be decided by "Average Joe"? Is Blu ray's movie selection that much better that some one would pay almost 4 times the price for the player? Maybe people just think Blu ray is the way to go because of sheer volume of support. Also, Toshiba has gained some respect with their DLP's but I believe they still have a entry level rep where companies like Panasonic and Sony carry more weight in the quality department. Although Sony is slipping there.

Some one mentioned sound quality, is either HD disc format going to give me any better sound over DVD with out upgrading my gear?

I haven't rented anything from Blockbuster in well over a year. I quit when they started doing those gimmick promotions with all the small print. I bought into one of those when they first started, the guy did not fully explain everything, once I got out of that I never went back. I just pick up a movie or two from Hollywood when I get time to watch. I really enjoyed Blockbuster actually, their employees seemed to be energetic and helpful, the selection was great. I don't kknow why they felt they had to start running deceptive promotions. I really digressed.... strike this last statement from the record.

Bayliff, wack his P P

[recoveryone]

The real impact my still lay with Wal-mart/Sam's Club/Costco, If they solely sale Blu-Ray then you really can call it a knock out on Toshiba HD. Blockbuster can tilt the scales, but they are not the world leader they once were, when they killed off most of the mom and pop video stores.

[Woochifer]

I think Blockbuster to some degree is just following the market trends. They've already done the HD test marketing, and found that Blu-ray rentals accumulate about the same market share that they get with sales (roughly a 2-to-1 split). Blockbuster has never been a trend setter. They took their time before fully supporting the DVD format, it took a long time before they supported widescreen as well, and as far as I know, their stores never supported Betamax or Laserdisc. Obviously, they now see enough of an installed user base to expand on their support for the new HD formats, but going forward with only one format is very much in line with how they do business.

As kex said, at this point it's very much about the studio support. I read that so far this year, standalone HD-DVD players are outselling the Blu-ray players by ~60% to 40%. And with the PS3 sales nosediving in a hurry, it's not necessarily the hardware that has helped maintain Blu-ray's market advantage.

Even on the title selection, the number of titles that Blu-ray has in release is not that much greater than HD-DVD. But, what Blu-ray has is a huge advantage in getting the most recent big box office draws released on the same date as (or very close to) the DVD release, and that comes down to studio support. With Blockbuster so dependent on new releases for their revenue, going with Blu-ray was the more logical choice.

I would also see if there's anything else going on between the lines, like any revenue sharing deals that they might have struck with the studios, particularly those that are exclusive to Blu-ray. During the 90s, Blockbuster squeezed most of the mom & pop video stores out of business partly by entering into revenue sharing arrangements with the studios, where Blockbuster would obtain as many copies of certain new releases as their stores wanted in return for a percentage of the rental revenue. More recently, they've been promoting selected new releases that can only be rented at Blockbuster for a certain time. Would not surprise me at all if the Blu-ray studios dangled a few carrots to help convince Blockbuster to support the format exclusively (or if Blockbuster provided their own carrots to convince the Blu-ray studios to give them certain exclusivity or revenue sharing in return for going Blu-ray only).

[PeruvianSkies]

I prefer Blu-ray and that is without having a ton of experience with both. I like saying "Blu-ray" and it sounds like Sting-ray, which is also cool, except when it killed Steve Irwin. I hate saying H-Dee-Dee-Vee-Dee and for some people this doesn't really mean much, they just think it's still a DVD. In fact, to confuse matters more there was a time, and still some titles do this, where on the packaging specs it will say 'remastered in High-Definition' on regular DVD's, which confuse some people into thinking that it is now an HD title. I recall Columbia/TriStar doing this quite a bit.

[Rich-n-Texas]

"Revenue sharing" to me sounds like that when this all shakes out, us consumers are once again in for a reaming, so to speak.

I just joined Blockbusters Total Access deal; don't know how long they've been offering Blu-ray titles (blue's my favorite color, for those who care), but they total 270 if I'm looking at the 27 pages right. That's a lot IMO.

[nightflier]

Another factor that seems to be overlooked is that most consumers don't know what the advantages of hi-def are. Better picture quality is all that most people I talk to in the store can think of. Interestingly, better sound isn't all that important to 90% of the consumers out there, and so it really comes down to what people are getting for the extra expense. I'm not saying it's worthless, I'm just saying that most people who don't own a hi-def player have no idea what the format will offer. Likewise, people who do own them aren't bowled over and shouting the virtues of hi def from their rooftops (don't know why, but it's scaring people away from taking a side in the format war).

If I was a studio pushing a hi def format, I'd work something into the contract with Blockbuster to advertise the virtues of the new format. I think that would go a whole lot further than just offering the disks and asking people to buy into something new they hardly understand. Maybe giving Blockbuster a slew of players and screens showing pre-edited demos of all the features during scenes of the latest block buster flick? If that's too expensive to implement, how about large color displays showing the differences and new features in easy to understand charts? Remember those life-size Luke Skywalker cutouts that we used to take pictures with at the entrances of video rental stores? Now picture The Fantastic 4 holding up TV screens showing off the many benefits of the new format.

On that note, I think that Toshiba is doing a better job of marketing its format in places like BB, CC, Walmart, etc. I don't know why, but it just seems like Toshiba is trying a bit harder and this may be why the individual player sales are higher. Maybe it's just SoCal, but I see more Toshiba HD-DVD ads than Sony Blu-ray ones. That said, both companies could do more and to me it seems like it's a half-hearted effort all around, almost as if the companies themselves are not entirely behind their respective formats. Maybe they expect the virtues of the formats to carry the sales figures, but personally, I think they are under-estimating what average consumers know about them.

Just out of curiosity, are there any TV ads about either format yet? That would be the place I'd focus on, especially on HD channels. Consider this ad during the season finale of Lost: "Like seeing this in your cable company's HD format? Wait until you see it in Blu-ray - Get all the performance out of your new TV with the best it can do: Sony the best picture, period." (interchange HD-DVD/Toshiba, if you want).

[PeruvianSkies]

Another factor that seems to be overlooked is that most consumers don't know what the advantages of hi-def are. Better picture quality is all that most people I talk to in the store can think of. Interestingly, better sound isn't all that important to 90% of the consumers out there, and so it really comes down to what people are getting for the extra expense. I'm not saying it's worthless, I'm just saying that most people who don't own a hi-def player have no idea what the format will offer. Likewise, people who do own them aren't bowled over and shouting the virtues of hi def from their rooftops (don't know why, but it's scaring people away from taking a side in the format war).

If I was a studio pushing a hi def format, I'd work something into the contract with Blockbuster to advertise the virtues of the new format. I think that would go a whole lot further than just offering the disks and asking people to buy into something new they hardly understand. Maybe giving Blockbuster a slew of players and screens showing pre-edited demos of all the features during scenes of the latest block buster flick? If that's too expensive to implement, how about large color displays showing the differences and new features in easy to understand charts? Remember those life-size Luke Skywalker cutouts that we used to take pictures with at the entrances of video rental stores? Now picture The Fantastic 4 holding up TV screens showing off the many benefits of the new format.

On that note, I think that Toshiba is doing a better job of marketing its format in places like BB, CC, Walmart, etc. I don't know why, but it just seems like Toshiba is trying a bit harder and this may be why the individual player sales are higher. Maybe it's just SoCal, but I see more Toshiba HD-DVD ads than Sony Blu-ray ones. That said, both companies could do more and to me it seems like it's a half-hearted effort all around, almost as if the companies themselves are not entirely behind their respective formats. Maybe they expect the virtues of the formats to carry the sales figures, but personally, I think they are under-estimating what average consumers know about them.

Just out of curiosity, are there any TV ads about either format yet? That would be the place I'd focus on, especially on HD channels. Consider this ad during the season finale of Lost: "Like seeing this in your cable company's HD format? Wait until you see it in Blu-ray - Get all the performance out of your new TV with the best it can do: Sony the best picture, period." (interchange HD-DVD/Toshiba, if you want).

Thank you for bringing up a very interesting angle on things. I am often amazed at how people are mainly interested in the picture size, resolution, etc, but couldn't care less about the sound quality delivered. It's astonishing to me that people in general desire for a pristine picture with crappy sound. It makes no sense, as Larry the Cable Guy would say...it's like whiping before pooping.

[kexodusc]

Thank you for bringing up a very interesting angle on things. I am often amazed at how people are mainly interested in the picture size, resolution, etc, but couldn't care less about the sound quality delivered. It's astonishing to me that people in general desire for a pristine picture with crappy sound. It makes no sense, as Larry the Cable Guy would say...it's like whiping before pooping.

I'm not surprised that the sound quality isn't a major selling point. Quite honestly, the difference between Dolby Digital 5.1 and Lossless DVD-A or whatever isn't nearly as big as most of us here (present party included) would make it out to be. We have a way of, err...exaggerating the little things in the world of audio.

Considering the visual sense is primary on the vast majority of the population, such a noticeable improvement (especially on larger screens) in the video quality area is a natural to be the biggest selling feature.

Just for giggles - I wonder, if I walked into a room and heard a 5.1 sound track, I doubt I could tell right away if it was Dolby Digital, DTS, or something hi-rez without doing an A/B and spending a bit of time. I'd probably be an above average guesser, and I'm smart enough to focus on a few limitations of Dolby, DTS, etc, but there's some good sounding mixes out there that'd make it pretty tough. (hey, I might try this experiment soon).

I'm pretty sure on a 42" screen or larger I could spot HD pretty fast.

[recoveryone]

ditto Kex, and remember many are still just getting into surround sound. When it comes to running wires along baseboards, ceiling creses, in wall installations..etc many are just not up for it, and the wife/kids factor plays a role also. So if you can't hide/blend in the wires then you may lose the battle of having a 5.1 setup. Or go for the wireless (subpar at best) option.

For me its always been about the sound. That was why I used to like going to the theater (when I was a Kid) was for the sound experience. The feeling of being sucked into the movie. I can handle watching a average movie and enjoy it very much if the sound mix is done real good. And only watch a good film once if the sound mix is poorly done. When SW EP1 came out I flock to see it like everyone else. The story line was so so acting the same, but what caught me was the sound mix on the pod race. I could not wait to get my own copy and play that part over and over again and that was VHS in DPL and it only got better when it was release on DVD.

I tell people all the time, the sound is what really makes the movie, and not always the big explosion, but the small little things: a dog barking off camera and making you turn your head to see, or water dripping from behind and you thinking you may have a leak in your house.

[kexodusc]

As long as companies want to make money, they'll sell classic movies. Think it's just a matter of time until you find a lot of your favorite old films on BluRay, and probably more on HD-DVD if they stick around long enough.

[Mr Peabody]

Let me say I am not a huge classic movie collector but I am the type of person who actually paid more money for the B&W version of the Cristmas Carol, opposed to the cheaper colorized version. This is on VHS. On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would rush to buy old movies on a HD format. If my VHS version of the Cristmas Carol breaks or gets noisy, I may replace it some day but I have to wonder how much better B&W could look in HD. I don't even want to buy DVD's that aren't 5.1 although I do have some because I didn't have the movie or it was a great price. I know I'm a minority but I just refuse to duplicate movies when a new format comes out. I really didn't buy many movies until DVD came along. Actually, if I buy movies at all it has to have an entertainment value that will allow me to be able to watch again in the future. This tends to be the action/Sci-Fi type for me. I guess that puts me in the BR camp.

I believe if Blockbuster starts renting HD movies it will give the HD players a surge. I remember when DVD first came out, first you had one row, then several shelves in the row, then DVD and same title VHS side by side, then VHS disappearing. Movie rentals in my opinion is the hurdle and after getting over that, they're off! If my local Blockbuster starts renting BR discs I really feel me being drawn by the s300. If I view movies I want to purchase I will probably just start a list and wait to buy on one of the HD formats.

What would keep things whirling as Blockbuster decided to do BR and Hollywood or some other large chain decided to do HD-DVD. What if HD-DVD campt discounted HD movies to the rental chain, maybe as an exclusive, to make it worth their while to jump in.

[Woochifer]

Let me say I am not a huge classic movie collector but I am the type of person who actually paid more money for the B&W version of the Cristmas Carol, opposed to the cheaper colorized version. This is on VHS. On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would rush to buy old movies on a HD format. If my VHS version of the Cristmas Carol breaks or gets noisy, I may replace it some day but I have to wonder how much better B&W could look in HD. I don't even want to buy DVD's that aren't 5.1 although I do have some because I didn't have the movie or it was a great price. I know I'm a minority but I just refuse to duplicate movies when a new format comes out. I really didn't buy many movies until DVD came along. Actually, if I buy movies at all it has to have an entertainment value that will allow me to be able to watch again in the future. This tends to be the action/Sci-Fi type for me. I guess that puts me in the BR camp.

I don't think you're in the minority on this point. The issue of double dipping IMO is yet another reason I think Blu-ray will ultimately prevail. The biggest selling Blu-ray and HD-DVD titles are concentrated in concurrent and recent releases. Even though these new formats represent a big leap in resolution, this indicates that consumers would generally rather use their budget on titles that they don't already own on DVD.

HD-DVD cannot win a format war by simply letting Universal unload its library titles faster than any of the Blu-ray studios. It might prop up HD-DVD for the short-term, but it won't sustain the format so long as the format maintains fewer exclusives. The new release market, using box office performance as an indicator, will remain dominated by Blu-ray for the foreseeable future. Universal might have a breakout year and create a formidable release slate for HD-DVD, but that might not be enough if Sony, Fox, or Disney keep pace.

What would keep things whirling as Blockbuster decided to do BR and Hollywood or some other large chain decided to do HD-DVD. What if HD-DVD campt discounted HD movies to the rental chain, maybe as an exclusive, to make it worth their while to jump in.

Maybe. But, it would be a really hard sell since that would mean cutting out the three studios (Fox, Sony, and Disney) that accounted for 50% of last year's box office take. Much easier to only do without Universal's release slate.

[bobsticks]

...this indicates that consumers would generally rather use their budget on titles that they don't already own on DVD.

I don't think that this point can be touched upon enough. My own experience with HD-DVD is that the limitations of the original source material is quite evident on some of my "old favorites". Neither Caddyshack nor Goodfellas offered enough of an improvement over the DVD versions to truly wet my appetite for explorations into the back catalogue.

Do I regret the decision to go HD-DVD? Nah, it was a buck-fifty add on to the X360 and newer titles like The Departed, Children of Men, and Batman Begins are solid, but I have to admit that if I were in the market for a dedicated player it would probably be Blu-Ray if only because it offers more of the new releases in which I'm interested.

I would be surprised if many X-Box owners and early adopters didn't feel the same way.

[Woochifer]

I don't think that this point can be touched upon enough. My own experience with HD-DVD is that the limitations of the original source material is quite evident on some of my "old favorites". Neither Caddyshack nor Goodfellas offered enough of an improvement over the DVD versions to truly wet my appetite for explorations into the back catalogue.

Do I regret the decision to go HD-DVD? Nah, it was a buck-fifty add on to the X360 and newer titles like The Departed, Children of Men, and Batman Begins are solid, but I have to admit that if I were in the market for a dedicated player it would probably be Blu-Ray if only because it offers more of the new releases in which I'm interested.

I would be surprised if many X-Box owners and early adopters didn't feel the same way.

At least the add-on drive is not a huge up front investment, and it's a tied to a device that has other useful functions. I look at HD-DVD in much the same way as anyone interested in SACD or DVD-A -- if there are certain titles that you absolutely must have in the higher resolution format, then by all means go for it. But, go into the transaction knowing that title selection and availability might not expand by much in the future.

Even if Universal goes neutral and Blu-ray wins the format war, I think that Warner, Paramount, and Universal will continue to issue HD-DVD titles for a little while, which would buy time for the Blu-ray player prices to tumble down to more attractive levels.

In my case, the reason why I buy "old" movies in HD (or DVD for that matter) is I feel in many cases they are better than the new stuff that is coming out. Of course there are many exceptions and I will buy those new films just as readily as any of the classics that I tend to go for. I just find that a lot of the newer stuff never gets watched by me again, so I pay money for a disc that gathers dust... Again, just one person's choices here, but I think I represent a much greater percentage of film *collectors* than many think. New movies may indeed appeal to many other film purchasers, but I don't call many of those folks film "collectors" in the sense I am talking about as a general rule.

Film collectors are a small segment of the population of video purchasers and as such they (we) will not be the factor that determines which format comes out on top most likely... At the end of the day, a sale is a sale (or a rental is a rental) and if the new stuff draws the most sales/rentals, what classics collectors like myself do will most likely be irrelevant from a macro perspective. From a micro prespective, it could determine if the classics get released by either format, as it shows there is a demand for those titles by "X" amount of people willing to buy (and if "X" equates to enough sales for a decent profit, someone will release the given films in time).

You're touching on a fundamental market question that gets at the more problematic issue that Blu-ray will run into even if it wins the format war with HD-DVD -- is the market for HD resolution big enough to supplant the now-entrenched DVD format?

When the DVD came out, it provided multiple upgrades over VHS aside from the improvement in video resolution. The DVD offered up 5.1 audio, anamorphic widescreen, random access search, integration with PC drives, interactive capabilities, a compact form factor, and supplemental features that were previously only available on Laserdisc. Anyone with a regular TV could benefit from the many improvements that the DVD provided over VHS.

With HD-DVD and Blu-ray, the difference primarily comes down to the picture resolution (and to a lesser degree, the audio resolution), and here you're still talking about a market in which less than half of households own a HDTV. Without the HDTV, there's no immediate incentive to upgrade (unless you own a HDMI receiver and want lossless audio).

Even before these HD formats came to market, some analysts speculated that the DVD was already "good enough" for the majority of consumers. Obviously this will change once HDTV ownership increases. But, I don't see HD-DVD and Blu-ray creating a mad rush of people looking to replace their DVD libraries. Consumers might replace selected favorites, but this won't be like the DVD format, which fundamentally changed the home video market by shifting consumers more towards purchasing rather than renting movies. The DVD greatly expanded the number of video collectors. But, if someone has already accumulated hundreds or thousands of DVDs, I doubt that even a majority of those titles will get upgraded.

[drseid]

Let me say I am not a huge classic movie collector but I am the type of person who actually paid more money for the B&W version of the Cristmas Carol, opposed to the cheaper colorized version. This is on VHS. On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would rush to buy old movies on a HD format. If my VHS version of the Cristmas Carol breaks or gets noisy, I may replace it some day but I have to wonder how much better B&W could look in HD.

Classics can look *a lot* better is the answer. Take my previous example of Casablanca and look at the HD DVD version compared to the DVD version... Just no comparison IMO really. The Searchers is another good example... That said, soundwise I would tend to agree that it is dificult to improve much there.

In my case, the reason why I buy "old" movies in HD (or DVD for that matter) is I feel in many cases they are better than the new stuff that is coming out. Of course there are many exceptions and I will buy those new films just as readily as any of the classics that I tend to go for. I just find that a lot of the newer stuff never gets watched by me again, so I pay money for a disc that gathers dust... Again, just one person's choices here, but I think I represent a much greater percentage of film *collectors* than many think. New movies may indeed appeal to many other film purchasers, but I don't call many of those folks film "collectors" in the sense I am talking about as a general rule.

Film collectors are a small segment of the population of video purchasers and as such they (we) will not be the factor that determines which format comes out on top most likely... At the end of the day, a sale is a sale (or a rental is a rental) and if the new stuff draws the most sales/rentals, what classics collectors like myself do will most likely be irrelevant from a macro perspective. From a micro prespective, it could determine if the classics get released by either format, as it shows there is a demand for those titles by "X" amount of people willing to buy (and if "X" equates to enough sales for a decent profit, someone will release the given films in time).

---Dave

[Mr Peabody]

Dave, I definitely agree that the classic movies sure offer more substance. Now that AMC really don't play much in the way of classics anymore, I may be forced to pick up more on disc. We still have TMC but I really don't watch that much TV. If I am going to drive 5 channels plus a sub, I want a movie that will fire them up. It's just two different types of viewing. If I watch an old movie, I usually just play it through the TV speakers.

Some day down the road when NTSC gets turned off and people have to go HD, I don't see the point of a DVD player anymore as the HD players are backward compatible. And then, why continue with the DVD standard discs? Of course, that wasn't the scenario with SACD/DVD-A, was it. Man, I hate it when I come up with a counterpoint to my own point. Ah, but no one was turning off CD. DVD users will at least have to have Progressive scan and component or HDMI, or some way to down scale. This could all be a long time down the road though as a NTSC tube TV can sustain some one for a lot of years. It just depends on how consumers will deal with the big turn off.

[PeruvianSkies]

Deserve to be discovered by new generations and it's a crime when they show poor prints, or cut versions of classic films, especially when they show the P&S versions....arrggg....who can watch it like that and really love it? Not me.