A Newb's Cry for Help (trying to build a small system on a budget)

[bluesdoggy]

I guess this is an appropriate enough topic for my first post on these forums.

A little background:

I'm a 23 year old masters student at the University of TN (computer engineering). My area of expertise is computer hardware and software; i know next to nothing about home audio other than what i've picked up when configuring computer audio for customers (i build pc's on the side of my research position at UT).

My dilema:

I currently live in a decently sized (9' 6" x 17' 8") dorm room. I'l be there about 2 more semesters then probally move into an apartment. I have a fairly nice samsung 27" flatscreen television, a fairly nice progressive scan toshiba DVD player, and the usual assortment of video game consoles (game cube, xbox, ps2, etc...). Recently i was able to experience all of the above in 5.1 dolby digital and don't think i can go back to school and settle for just 2 speaker stereo.

In short: i need help building a small home audio setup for my dorm/apartment

What I want:

I'd like to get a system for somewhere in the 800 - 1000 dollar range that can last me for the next 3 ~ 5 years (basically get me through school and into my first year of meaningful employment). I'd like the capability of doing Dolby digital 5.1 (maybe 6.1), dts, prologic II, would like 2 or 3 optical ins, a coaxial, and some svideo/component inputs (only have 2 component ins on my television, so extra component ins on the receiver are pretty crucial for me).

As far as speakers go, as i said before i'm ignorant on this stuff, but what i'm looking for is NOT volume or clarity at high volume. I want the cleanest, clearest sound i can get (afford) at mid to low volume levels. If my budget precludes a sub woofer, thats not the end of the world because my goal is not to annoy the hell out of my neighbors. I listen to quite a bit of music, play quite a few video games, and watch a wide range of movies, so something that is versitile would be nice.

What i need:

basically i'm looking for all the help i can get. I hope i've provided enough info to give folks an idea of what i'm shooting for. The upper end of my budget is pretty firm, but if i ended up spending 1200 for something very nice i don't think i'd complain much.

Please help me out if you've got a few moments to share your knowledge and experience.

Thank you,

blues.

[hershon]

The perfect setup for you, one that I have, which is in your price range is the orb audio Mod 1 System which you can get with an excellent JVC/DVD receiver and they'll give you very good speaker wires. The system consists of 5 satelites MOD 1 speakers, a subwoofer and as I said the JVC/DVD receiver which you have the option to buy seperately but probably isn't worth your time doing to save $50 rather than get everything at once. Go to Orbaudio.com for all the info. Best sound system I've ever gotten for both CD's and DVD's. If you order tell Gary (if you got him) you were recommended to Orb by Mike from Chatsworth (no i don't get any benefits from doing so other than trying to help a great private company that doesn't retail in stores but sells its own speakers. Forget what these numbsculls say about DVD/receivers, it works great and I've never had the DVD player not work.

I guess this is an appropriate enough topic for my first post on these forums.

A little background:

I'm a 23 year old masters student at the University of TN (computer engineering). My area of expertise is computer hardware and software; i know next to nothing about home audio other than what i've picked up when configuring computer audio for customers (i build pc's on the side of my research position at UT).

My dilema:

I currently live in a decently sized (9' 6" x 17' 8") dorm room. I'l be there about 2 more semesters then probally move into an apartment. I have a fairly nice samsung 27" flatscreen television, a fairly nice progressive scan toshiba DVD player, and the usual assortment of video game consoles (game cube, xbox, ps2, etc...). Recently i was able to experience all of the above in 5.1 dolby digital and don't think i can go back to school and settle for just 2 speaker stereo.

In short: i need help building a small home audio setup for my dorm/apartment

What I want:

I'd like to get a system for somewhere in the 800 - 1000 dollar range that can last me for the next 3 ~ 5 years (basically get me through school and into my first year of meaningful employment). I'd like the capability of doing Dolby digital 5.1 (maybe 6.1), dts, prologic II, would like 2 or 3 optical ins, a coaxial, and some svideo/component inputs (only have 2 component ins on my television, so extra component ins on the receiver are pretty crucial for me).

As far as speakers go, as i said before i'm ignorant on this stuff, but what i'm looking for is NOT volume or clarity at high volume. I want the cleanest, clearest sound i can get (afford) at mid to low volume levels. If my budget precludes a sub woofer, thats not the end of the world because my goal is not to annoy the hell out of my neighbors. I listen to quite a bit of music, play quite a few video games, and watch a wide range of movies, so something that is versitile would be nice.

What i need:

basically i'm looking for all the help i can get. I hope i've provided enough info to give folks an idea of what i'm shooting for. The upper end of my budget is pretty firm, but if i ended up spending 1200 for something very nice i don't think i'd complain much.

Please help me out if you've got a few moments to share your knowledge and experience.

Thank you,

blues.

[Woochifer]

The usual first question should be, do you intend to buy the whole thing at once? IMO, the more prudent long-term approach would be to buy the receiver and take your time finding a good pair of main speakers that also has decent ancillary center and surround speakers. You DON'T have to buy the whole setup at once! Typically, the biggest compromise if you go for the all-at-once approach is the speakers. IMO, the bare minimum speaker set that you should go with on a 5.1 setup is the $600 Energy Take 5, and even that set has issues with the lower midrange and integration between the satellites and the bass unit. (though not nearly as severe as with the Bose Acoustimass systems)

With a $1,200 budget, I would allocate about $500-$600 of that to a decent receiver with preouts (if you decide later on to upgrade the amplification), and the other half to a pair of speakers (if possible, the front three speakers). This will get you started. Pretty much any receiver will give you the basic features that you're looking for. As you move up the scale, other things like room calibration features, more powerful DSP chips, and better power supply components are typically what get added.

As far as speakers go, a budget of $600-$700 can move you into some very nice options if you're willing to add onto your speaker set incrementally rather than buying the whole thing at once. Speakers in the $600 range that are well worth a listen include the Paradigm Monitor 5 and the B&W DM602. Both of these speakers are large bookshelf models that provide decent bass, so you can get by while saving up for the subwoofer.

And both of them are part of a well rounded family of speakers that you can mix and match. For example, another option would be to go for the $350 Paradigm Mini Monitor, which would then leave you with enough budget to also get the matching center speaker. When you got enough budget to add the surround speakers, you can then either move the Mini Monitors to the back for surround duty and add a pair of the larger Monitor 5s up front, or just add another pair of Mini Monitors.

Keep in mind that all home theater receivers have some kind of virtual surround function that gives you a surround effect with only two, three, or four speakers (Bose advertises this feature ad nauseum for their 3-2-1 system, but just about every other receiver manfacturer does it as well). Obviously, the surround effect works best with a full five speaker setup, but you got time to add on and still enjoy your setup as you add on. Investing more in a good pair of speakers up front will give you much better audio quality along the way, and far better surround performance once you complete the setup.

[Bryan]

Are you willing to get used gear? Probably the best deal you are likely to find, IMO:

Rocket RS550 - $599 + shipping (B-stock)
Rocket RSC100 - $239 + shipping (B-stock)
Onkyo TX-SR502B - $250 delivered (www.jr.com - comes in either black or silver)

This should come out close to $1200 but you will need to add surrounds later on (look for used).

Another option would be a B-stock Rocket Tyke system for $249+ shipping, upgrade the sub to the UFW-10 ($599+ shipping) and get the aforementioned receiver.

[bluesdoggy]

Thank you for the feedback, please keep it coming.

I had considered buying a piece at a time...and while this may seem stupid (read: is stupid) i'll just go ahead and say i'd rather get it all now and not get as much quality than buy a piece at a time. That shows a serious lack of patience i know... but i know myself and think that i'll either spend more than i should to flesh out the partial system quicker, or buy all at once.

Also, i don't think i'd be oppossed to buying used, so long as i could find the stuff new somewhere to listen to first. I don't think i'm able to buy something I haven't been able to try out first hand.

[This Guy]

Ok, lets see here.

Allow $250-300 for a receiver from Marantz, Denon, Harman/Kardon, Yamaha, or Onkyo.
Allow about $100 for speaker cables and interconnects, probably a little less.
That allows around $600, maybe a little more for speakers. You could check out the Athena system at Best Buy. The HSU Ventriliquist system goes for around that much and includes a very nice subwoofer. Or, you could go to your local audio/video store and pick out a nice pair of speakers that sells for about $200 a pair. and buy three pairs, and you could buy the cheap partsexpress.com 100 watt 10" sub for around $130 I believe. There's a number of options out there, I personally would go with the previous option I gave you. Good luck.

[hershon]

As I said go to orbaudio.com There's another board in which people rave about the product.
Whatever you do don't get a home theater in a box setup.

Thank you for the feedback, please keep it coming.

I had considered buying a piece at a time...and while this may seem stupid (read: is stupid) i'll just go ahead and say i'd rather get it all now and not get as much quality than buy a piece at a time. That shows a serious lack of patience i know... but i know myself and think that i'll either spend more than i should to flesh out the partial system quicker, or buy all at once.

Also, i don't think i'd be oppossed to buying used, so long as i could find the stuff new somewhere to listen to first. I don't think i'm able to buy something I haven't been able to try out first hand.

[Woochifer]

Thank you for the feedback, please keep it coming.

I had considered buying a piece at a time...and while this may seem stupid (read: is stupid) i'll just go ahead and say i'd rather get it all now and not get as much quality than buy a piece at a time. That shows a serious lack of patience i know... but i know myself and think that i'll either spend more than i should to flesh out the partial system quicker, or buy all at once.

Also, i don't think i'd be oppossed to buying used, so long as i could find the stuff new somewhere to listen to first. I don't think i'm able to buy something I haven't been able to try out first hand.

Well, then I suggest that you give a listen to a pair of decent speakers in the $600 range in virtual surround mode, and compare that to the playback with a 5.1 speaker package. If the 5.1 playback is good enough for you, then go with that. But, if the sound quality with the two speakers in virtual mode is enough to give pause, then consider patience a virtue.

It took me two years to finish piecing together my system, and while I don't recommend that long an interval for everybody, I knew going in that I had a minimum level of audio quality that I was gunning for. And none of the 5.1 speaker packages in the sub-$1,000 range that I heard provided anything close to full frequency range performance. So, I wound up putting my full speaker budget into the two mains and incrementally adding on as funds became available.

Once you go into the $600 price point, then you're getting into some compellingly good speaker options. If anything, spend some time listening and comparing. Even a budget system like the one you're looking for is a big investment. You wouldn't buy stocks without doing research, or a car without a test drive, and for similar reasons, you shouldn't buy a HT system without knowing something about what your budget will buy you. Impatience is the devil when it comes to audio, and especially with speakers. The concept of a "home theater in a box" depends on consumers' impatience and convenience, not on sound quality.

[Woochifer]

As I said go to orbaudio.com There's another board in which people rave about the product.
Whatever you do don't get a home theater in a box setup.

Let's see, an all-in-one speaker package plus an integrated DVD player/receiver ... sounds an awful lot like an HTIB setup to me.

[This Guy]

what do you think orb audio is? They sell a JVC receiver/dvd player in one box. And the drivers used in their speakers cost no more than $15, and obviously isn't going to be fullrange because it's a one way speaker. Just a step better than Bose.

[markw]

As I said go to orbaudio.com There's another board in which people rave about the product.

Somehow, I would think that board would be more than a litte biased towards orb products, doncha think?

[hershon]

MY definition of Home Theater in a Box means you get all the speakers, DVD/receiver manufactured from the same company. I don't see how buying speakers manufactured by one company OrbAudio and a DVD/Receiver manufactured by another company JVC equals home theater in a box. OrbAudio sells it not at a profit just to save customers time on a compliment to their system. My problem with HTIB is that the receiver may be good and the speakers not so good or vice versa. The crap propogated on this board about why you shouldn't have DVD receivers is just that. I've never heard of the DVD portion going caput. The problem with many people on this board and I'll say it again and again is alot of people on it have no common sense- they don't applaud or criticize a product because of the way it sounds but are more into technical gobbly gook.

Let's see, an all-in-one speaker package plus an integrated DVD player/receiver ... sounds an awful lot like an HTIB setup to me.

[hershon]

Maybe I should have written my comments more succinctly, the praises of OrbAudio I was talking about are on a Board that has nothing to do with Orb, its a forum similar to this one and people on the forum were unanimous on their praise of Orb which is how I found out about them.

Somehow, I would think that board would be more than a litte biased towards orb products, doncha think?

[hershon]

First of all what you and your cohorts are retards about is, that the actual sound of music produced by speakers seems to be of no concern to you, all you care about is technical mumbo jumbo. I've produced name 60/70's bands, so when it comes to music I have a good ear and know what I'm talking about. First off Orb Audio sells as a favor to its customers an excellent JVC DVD/receiver that sounds great and compliments their own products. What exactly is wrong with that? Secondly, how do you know Orb drivers in their speakers are less than $15 and don't produce full range? Have you ever in fact listened to their speakers, bxxxx (Rick James term). I have no idea what Orb pays to manufacture its speakers but they sound great to the human ear and that should be all that matters, not "I play with myself" technocrap.

what do you think orb audio is? They sell a JVC receiver/dvd player in one box. And the drivers used in their speakers cost no more than $15, and obviously isn't going to be fullrange because it's a one way speaker. Just a step better than Bose.

[This Guy]

Yes Hershon you're right. The only reason I wasted three grand on a Home Theatre system is so I could talk about the technical specifications of the components. I thought I would impress people by telling them what kind of system I have, and I truly believe that three grand was worth it. If you didn't recognize the sarcasm in the post I suggest you stop reading this instant. Now I don't care if you produced 60/70's bands, you like what you like and I like what I like and that doesn't put you ahead of anybody. Now for the receiver. First JVC really doesn't make a great receiver, I know because I owned one. Sure for a $100 they ain't bad, but not for a serious H/T. They can't handle low impediances and have an overated power output. It says it puts out 500 watts, but on the back it said its power source was 350 watts or so. Right there it tells ya it can't put out 500 watts like they claim. Also, it's common sence to not put anything on top of an amplifier because it can over heat. Why do you think manufacturers always say not to place anything on top of the receiver? And, what if it breaks? You got to send the whole thing back to get it fixed. Leaving you without the ability to watch DVD's, or listen to a cd. Now for the speakers. I have a good knowledge of whats on the DIY market, and I found a couple of drivers that will do exactly what orbs do and they were under $20. Ofcourse a single 3" driver can't produce full range, it's hard enough for a huge floorstander to do that. It's physically impossible. The mass of a 3" driver is too much to accurately produce up to 20 khz. And the surface area and excursion are too small to get much past 150 hz in a sealed box. Therefore you need to crossover the subwoofer that high in order for them to blend without a frequency gap. But that's impossible for them to blend well unless you have two of them under the left and right speakers because frequencies over 80 hz are directional. Those are your answers Hershon. When I buy speakers, I tend to look at it's specifications and see if what the manufacturer is saying is legit. I don't pick what I think is cute and what will match the coach and has a dvd/receiever to boot. I'm sorry if I'm more knowledgable with home audio than you are and actually care about what I'm getting. I don't like to read rave biased reviews on the equipment because I know it's all bull ****. It's just a bunch of people trying to comfort themselves in that they made the right decision, even though in their hearts they know they screwed up.

[hershon]

First off I will agree with you that people can like what they like, that's cool. If your happy with your 3 Grand system great, maybe it is wonderful- without having heard anything on it, I can't fairly comment on it. This is where I totally take issue with you. 1. Have you in fact heard CD's and/or DVD's played on Orb Mod 1 or Mod 2 speakers (which is pretty hard as they're only sold directly by the manufacturer not at retail shops). If not, how can you comment on their quality- that to me is totally bogus. 2. You do not know the model of the JVC DVD receiver I'm talking about so how again can you comment on the quality of sound it produces. Maybe you don't like JVC for some reason but again I find your comment on this totally bogus. In regards to the BS recurring comments about what happens if the DVD part of the receiver doesn't work, well I have not experienced this nor has anyone else I know. I admit there is always the slight possibility it could happen but what are the odds. And if so, you can always play another DVD player through it. I play my system in an apartment and its great. My ears are A1 as I've produced a bunch of recordings with name 60's English rock legends and the sound I like, everyone else likes.
The guy who originally posted the thread was interested in putting together a good system for around a $1,000 and I answered him how to do that. For all I know your $3000 system could sound better- I can't comment on it because I haven't heard it but for you to put down systems/speakers that you haven't heard based on some technical mumbo jumbo is total bs.

Yes Hershon you're right. The only reason I wasted three grand on a Home Theatre system is so I could talk about the technical specifications of the components. I thought I would impress people by telling them what kind of system I have, and I truly believe that three grand was worth it. If you didn't recognize the sarcasm in the post I suggest you stop reading this instant. Now I don't care if you produced 60/70's bands, you like what you like and I like what I like and that doesn't put you ahead of anybody. Now for the receiver. First JVC really doesn't make a great receiver, I know because I owned one. Sure for a $100 they ain't bad, but not for a serious H/T. They can't handle low impediances and have an overated power output. It says it puts out 500 watts, but on the back it said its power source was 350 watts or so. Right there it tells ya it can't put out 500 watts like they claim. Also, it's common sence to not put anything on top of an amplifier because it can over heat. Why do you think manufacturers always say not to place anything on top of the receiver? And, what if it breaks? You got to send the whole thing back to get it fixed. Leaving you without the ability to watch DVD's, or listen to a cd. Now for the speakers. I have a good knowledge of whats on the DIY market, and I found a couple of drivers that will do exactly what orbs do and they were under $20. Ofcourse a single 3" driver can't produce full range, it's hard enough for a huge floorstander to do that. It's physically impossible. The mass of a 3" driver is too much to accurately produce up to 20 khz. And the surface area and excursion are too small to get much past 150 hz in a sealed box. Therefore you need to crossover the subwoofer that high in order for them to blend without a frequency gap. But that's impossible for them to blend well unless you have two of them under the left and right speakers because frequencies over 80 hz are directional. Those are your answers Hershon. When I buy speakers, I tend to look at it's specifications and see if what the manufacturer is saying is legit. I don't pick what I think is cute and what will match the coach and has a dvd/receiever to boot. I'm sorry if I'm more knowledgable with home audio than you are and actually care about what I'm getting. I don't like to read rave biased reviews on the equipment because I know it's all bull ****. It's just a bunch of people trying to comfort themselves in that they made the right decision, even though in their hearts they know they screwed up.

[Bryan]

hershon,

This Guy owned a JVC receiver. For that matter, I did too. Let me tell you what I found. The JVC RX-8000V receiver I owned crapped out on me and needed to be repaired. While it was being repaired I found an excellent deal on a Yamaha RX-V496. The Yamaha sounded much better than the JVC. It sounded clearer and cleaner. Highs were crisper with the bass more pronounced. The build quality was much better. IMO, JVC mid to high level receivers can not compete against the likes of Yamaha, Onkyo, Outlaw, Marantz, Denon, or Harmon Kardon entry level receivers.

He is also correct that a 3" driver can not produce full range. The best I heard was the nOrh 3.0s and they came with a single 3" driver. However, to nOrhs credit they listed it as 75Hz - 20KHz. Not the end all be all in the upper range but still very good. They also can not go low but it is not designed for that purpose. Of course, if you doubt what I say, ask the pogue for he bought the 3.0s I used to own.

Orb Audio is going after the Gallo Nucleus Micro (and the like) market and there is nothing wrong with that. It still would be interesting to see what Orbs speaker specifications are. However, much like Bose it appears they are going unpublished.

A tower speaker typically sounds better for music than what bookshelf speaker will. Of course, that is in general. A 3" full range speaker, such as the nOrh 3.0, will not be able to compete against a two way speaker, such as the nOrh 4.0, for music.

The "technical mumbo-jumbo" sometimes is just that. Other times it can give you an indication of how the speaker will sound and if the manufacturer is stretching the truth or exagerating how well the speaker will perform (i.e. + or - 3dbs vs + or - 10dbs).

[hershon]

Good response. My JVC DVD/Receiver is actually Model # RX-DV31SL for which I'm very happy with. The receiver lists for about $455 and I got it for $285 brand new. I have no doubt that you can probably come up with better seperate DVD and receiver units, but they'll cost you significantly more than $285 new and the point of this thread was to come up with a good sounding system for $1,000. To me for the price range, the RX-DV31SL is fantastic. That's all I'm saying and have been trying to say. In regards to how a receiver sounds compared to another receiver, the one thing I've learned is one has to make the comparision based on listening from the same speakers to different receivers.

hershon,

This Guy owned a JVC receiver. For that matter, I did too. Let me tell you what I found. The JVC RX-8000V receiver I owned crapped out on me and needed to be repaired. While it was being repaired I found an excellent deal on a Yamaha RX-V496. The Yamaha sounded much better than the JVC. It sounded clearer and cleaner. Highs were crisper with the bass more pronounced. The build quality was much better. IMO, JVC mid to high level receivers can not compete against the likes of Yamaha, Onkyo, Outlaw, Marantz, Denon, or Harmon Kardon entry level receivers. As to the drivers stuff, I'm a little bit confused here. The company is Orb the speakers are called Mod 1 or Mod 2, what is nOrh? All I can say is to me they're the best speakers I've ever heard for listening to rock and blues, again especially for the money.

He is also correct that a 3" driver can not produce full range. The best I heard was the nOrh 3.0s and they came with a single 3" driver. However, to nOrhs credit they listed it as 75Hz - 20KHz. Not the end all be all in the upper range but still very good. They also can not go low but it is not designed for that purpose. Of course, if you doubt what I say, ask the pogue for he bought the 3.0s I used to own.

Orb Audio is going after the Gallo Nucleus Micro (and the like) market and there is nothing wrong with that. It still would be interesting to see what Orbs speaker specifications are. However, much like Bose it appears they are going unpublished.

A tower speaker typically sounds better for music than what bookshelf speaker will. Of course, that is in general. A 3" full range speaker, such as the nOrh 3.0, will not be able to compete against a two way speaker, such as the nOrh 4.0, for music.

The "technical mumbo-jumbo" sometimes is just that. Other times it can give you an indication of how the speaker will sound and if the manufacturer is stretching the truth or exagerating how well the speaker will perform (i.e. + or - 3dbs vs + or - 10dbs).

[bluesdoggy]

Sorry, didn't mean to start a fuss.

i gues my options are somwhat limited because i've concluded i'm not really comfortable buying something i can't listen to beforehand. This is due mainly to my lack of experience; I figure if it at least sounds good to ME then i should be satisfied for awhile.

[Woochifer]

MY definition of Home Theater in a Box means you get all the speakers, DVD/receiver manufactured from the same company. I don't see how buying speakers manufactured by one company OrbAudio and a DVD/Receiver manufactured by another company JVC equals home theater in a box. OrbAudio sells it not at a profit just to save customers time on a compliment to their system. My problem with HTIB is that the receiver may be good and the speakers not so good or vice versa. The crap propogated on this board about why you shouldn't have DVD receivers is just that. I've never heard of the DVD portion going caput. The problem with many people on this board and I'll say it again and again is alot of people on it have no common sense- they don't applaud or criticize a product because of the way it sounds but are more into technical gobbly gook.

Oh? Orb sells the JVC DVD/receiver and the speakers as a package with instructions on how to use the two units together. Again, all-in-one speaker package plus an integrated DVD/receiver -- how's that any different from other home theater in a box offerings? Just because they don't have the same brand name doesn't change what segment of the market they serve, or what the product is.

Integrated DVD/receivers are about convenience. You may have never heard of a DVD portion blanking out, but friends of mine who've worked in AV sales see defective products come back to their stores all the time, many of which are integrated components that have lost one function. An integrated component greatly your chances of having to send the entire unit back with a defect, and as such they do not recommended integrated combo components (particularly ones that combine a solid state component with something that has motors and moving parts that wear out) precisely because if one part breaks, you have to send back the whole thing. You mean you've never heard of a defective DVD player, or one that needs a firmware update, or receivers with unreliable power supply sections?

These drawbacks to integrated components are very much common sense based. If a transistor shorts out on an integrated receiver, then you lose your disc player as well when you send it back If the drawer can no longer open on the DVD part of an integrated receiver, then you can't listen to music while the thing's in the shop. If either of these problems occur with separate components, then you retain functionality of part of your system while that component is out of commission, and you retain the option to upgrade one component rather than having to upgrade both. To me THAT'S common sense.

I don't know what planet you've been reading this board from, but people who frequent the forum are very much concerned about sound quality. They discuss the technical details because they know how it potentially impacts on the sound quality.

If anything, you're falling prey to a common fallacy among a lot of the newbies that have come and gone through this forum over the years. They buy a system that they like and automatically presume that it is the best approach for everybody. You bought yourself an Orb system with an integrated receiver. You like the sound quality, so therefore people who made other decisions or have other opinions lack common sense and are only concerned with technical jibberish rather than sound quality. Pretty presumptuous there. It's fine to enjoy your system, but let's not get carried away with all these other tangents and assumptions about other people.

BTW, the original poster already has a DVD player, so why are you recommending that he go with an integrated receiver? Because two DVD players are better than one? Or because you already own one?

[topspeed]

You've got quite a few decent options, many which have already been posted. I know both Geoffcin (a regular here) and myself have experience with Cambridge Soundworks products and recommend them highly. http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/s...7zz&type=store

CSW was founded by the late, great Henry Kloss of AR, KLH, and Advent fame. You're probably too young to know this, but a long time ago in a far away galaxy, these brands were the state of the art in Henry's day and are far superior to the slap-branded iterations that you find today.

CSW represent exceptional bang for the buck and offer a 30 day money back guarantee so you can audition them in your room, which is ideal. I think they even pay for return shipping so there really is very little risk involved. The good news is that they are equally coherent all the way from low levels to "yes, that's the RA at the door."
I would also choose Onkyo over Sony or JVC in a New York minute.

Overall though, I'd listen to Wooch and try to exercise patience. Doing it piece by piece will net you a lifetime of enjoyment as opposed to the band-aid approach you seem to prefer. Think big picture.

[hershon]

You actually make some good points here. First off, I must have misread the part about him already having a DVD player- my fault on that one. I still don't consider something Home theater in a box if they're two seperate components manufactured by different entities. Orb (they ought to put me on the payroll for this) sells the receiver as an option- people don't have to buy it, mainly for the convenience of their customers. They feel this receiver compliments their speakers and I totally agree with them. I admit there is always a chance the DVD part of the receiver could get broken but I think the odds are pretty low, that's all I'm saying. As far as me thinking that if I say something is good, everybody who hears it will think the same, no appologies there, I am a bit arrogant, as I said I produced a bunch of albums with name 60's English rock legends who still have their chops and my ears are great and everyone I've ever encountered would agree on that. Hey if I heard your system or someone elses, maybe I would say its better, I don't know. I just would not say your system is better without having listened to it based on technical specs though which is my whole point and problem with alot of people on this board. I've hardly seen anything stating about people liking something based on sound quality and particularly what sound quality they're talking about. I play alot of classic rock and blues and base my opinons of how that type of music sounds on my speakers. Perhaps if I played classical music it wouldn't sound as good. No one for the most part who even comments on sound quality bothers to refer to what music they're exactly talking about which is a major problem. Maybe a system sounds great playing classical music but the same system won't sound so great playing rock music. What I'm talking about is talking plain simple English which alot of people here do not seem capable of doing. Don't get me wrong, I'm on here because a couple of people have offered me great invaluable help which I totally appreciate. But others sound like they've never had a woman in their life! To me if you can get a system you're happy with, why spend thousands of dollars keep trying to make it better and better ad infinitum unless the technology demands it.

Oh? Orb sells the JVC DVD/receiver and the speakers as a package with instructions on how to use the two units together. Again, all-in-one speaker package plus an integrated DVD/receiver -- how's that any different from other home theater in a box offerings? Just because they don't have the same brand name doesn't change what segment of the market they serve, or what the product is.

Integrated DVD/receivers are about convenience. You may have never heard of a DVD portion blanking out, but friends of mine who've worked in AV sales see defective products come back to their stores all the time, many of which are integrated components that have lost one function. An integrated component greatly your chances of having to send the entire unit back with a defect, and as such they do not recommended integrated combo components (particularly ones that combine a solid state component with something that has motors and moving parts that wear out) precisely because if one part breaks, you have to send back the whole thing. You mean you've never heard of a defective DVD player, or one that needs a firmware update, or receivers with unreliable power supply sections?

These drawbacks to integrated components are very much common sense based. If a transistor shorts out on an integrated receiver, then you lose your disc player as well when you send it back If the drawer can no longer open on the DVD part of an integrated receiver, then you can't listen to music while the thing's in the shop. If either of these problems occur with separate components, then you retain functionality of part of your system while that component is out of commission, and you retain the option to upgrade one component rather than having to upgrade both. To me THAT'S common sense.

I don't know what planet you've been reading this board from, but people who frequent the forum are very much concerned about sound quality. They discuss the technical details because they know how it potentially impacts on the sound quality.

If anything, you're falling prey to a common fallacy among a lot of the newbies that have come and gone through this forum over the years. They buy a system that they like and automatically presume that it is the best approach for everybody. You bought yourself an Orb system with an integrated receiver. You like the sound quality, so therefore people who made other decisions or have other opinions lack common sense and are only concerned with technical jibberish rather than sound quality. Pretty presumptuous there. It's fine to enjoy your system, but let's not get carried away with all these other tangents and assumptions about other people.

BTW, the original poster already has a DVD player, so why are you recommending that he go with an integrated receiver? Because two DVD players are better than one? Or because you already own one?

[topspeed]

No one for the most part who even comments on sound quality bothers to refer to what music they're exactly talking about which is a major problem.

Huh? You need to read more. Music preference is asked all the time and you're right, it should be. However, a great speaker should be just as adept at Pink Floyd as Berloiz, don't you agree?

What I'm talking about is talking plain simple English which alot of people here do not seem capable of doing.

Maybe you've been hanging out with the dinosaur rock guys too much and expect Queen's English ? Audio enthusiasts have, for better or for worse, their own lingo. Because music is so emotional, manytimes it is difficult to convey the intention without delving into overwrought and wildly romantic descriptors that have absolutely no relation to what is in technical terms, a bunch of math.

To me if you can get a system you're happy with, why spend thousands of dollars keep trying to make it better and better ad infinitum unless the technology demands it.

There isn't a person alive that would disagree with you on the first part. Who wouldn't want the best possible sound at the lowest possible expenditure? The second part is trickier because you have to understand the psyche of some audiophiles. Many are what I call "gear geeks" who are actually more interested in the cause rather than the effect. These folks buy and sell equipment all the time, always searching for their version of the holy grail of perfect sound reproduction. Of course, this doesn't exist. Different ears, different perceptions, different acoustics et. al conspire to make this goal unobtainable.

So why bother?

It's a hobby, friend. We are all on this board because we like audio. Listening to it, building it, tweaking it, recording it, fawning over it, buying it, selling it, and ranting about it. I'm perfectly content with my rig right now and am convinced that for my preferences, it is the best obtainable for the price.

That said, I'm still going to go buy some ARC tubes someday

BTW, to think that you have golden ears and therefore everyone should like what you like is being pretty presumptuous, don't you think? Also, calling established regulars here "retards" isn't going to help your cause. In fact, such childish slander only slights any useful information you may have and casts serious doubt on your claims. Just a thought...

[hershon]

Good points but I don't agree with you on the Pink Floyd Berloiz point unless a person wants to hear both classical music and rock music. If all I listen to is say rock music then I'd gladly pay less for a system that plays rock great and classical music soso then one that plays them both great. I mainly invest my money on the latest remastered upgrade of 60/70's rock groups and blues stuff then listen to the crap put out today. To be honest, my friends and associates are reasonably articulate people with normal social lives who can express their tastes in plain simple English. As I said, alot of people here can not.

Huh? You need to read more. Music preference is asked all the time and you're right, it should be. However, a great speaker should be just as adept at Pink Floyd as Berloiz, don't you agree?

Maybe you've been hanging out with the dinosaur rock guys too much and expect Queen's English ? Audio enthusiasts have, for better or for worse, their own lingo. Because music is so emotional, manytimes it is difficult to convey the intention without delving into overwrought and wildly romantic descriptors that have absolutely no relation to what is in technical terms, a bunch of math.
There isn't a person alive that would disagree with you on the first part. Who wouldn't want the best possible sound at the lowest possible expenditure? The second part is trickier because you have to understand the psyche of some audiophiles. Many are what I call "gear geeks" who are actually more interested in the cause rather than the effect. These folks buy and sell equipment all the time, always searching for their version of the holy grail of perfect sound reproduction. Of course, this doesn't exist. Different ears, different perceptions, different acoustics et. al conspire to make this goal unobtainable.

So why bother?

It's a hobby, friend. We are all on this board because we like audio. Listening to it, building it, tweaking it, recording it, fawning over it, buying it, selling it, and ranting about it. I'm perfectly content with my rig right now and am convinced that for my preferences, it is the best obtainable for the price.

That said, I'm still going to go buy some ARC tubes someday

[This Guy]

Well Hershon I believe the other posters summed it up for you. I don't have the need or time to keep arguing on something that will go no where. I mean you're telling me I'm looking down on a peace of equipment when I simply said it's the same thing as a home theatre in a box. YOU are the one that got offended by it. Your bias towards your orb is too great for posting on these boards. You reccomend them for absolutely anything, even if the person doesn't need small speakers that can be hidden or already has a DVD player. Read the posts before you reply.