A Newb's Cry for Help (trying to build a small system on a budget)

[bluesdoggy]

so yeah...back to the newb without a clue...

I thought perhaps i should throw up some links to stuff i've been looking at over the past few days and get some feed back to it. I realize that this stuff isn't necessarily the best for the money, however it is all available for me to listen to locally, and thats a key factor in my decision making process. I just wanna say thanks for all the advice, if nothing else its interesting to watch the little mini debates that have sprung up in this thread.

Recievers:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9dAnGW1...&avf=N&search=

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9dAnGW1...&avf=N&search=

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...&s=electronics

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=79249&m=0

For speakers (please be somewhat gentle..keep in mind all along i've said i wanted to buy all at once, i promise for my first house system i'll be more patient...or more rich )

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=76469&m=0

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=76470&m=0

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=65023&m=0

[Woochifer]

You actually make some good points here. First off, I must have misread the part about him already having a DVD player- my fault on that one. I still don't consider something Home theater in a box if they're two seperate components manufactured by different entities.

Well, that's fine, but keep in mind that a lot of component manufacturers outsource their speaker manufacturing, so it's not like the whole system is put together and designed by the same entity.

Orb (they ought to put me on the payroll for this) sells the receiver as an option- people don't have to buy it, mainly for the convenience of their customers. They feel this receiver compliments their speakers and I totally agree with them. I admit there is always a chance the DVD part of the receiver could get broken but I think the odds are pretty low, that's all I'm saying.

It complements the speakers because it's most similar to the HTIB approach, which sells convenience and design compatibility as the strong points. Orb's website keeps dropping references to some "famous $2,500-$3,500" systems, which we all know is code for the Bose Lifestyle series. THAT is what Orb is competing with (and IMO, it's not that hard to compete there if you're talking about sound quality). Their spherical speaker design is virtually a clone of the Gallo Acoustics Micros, which also competes with the Bose Lifestyle systems, but keeps their products up in that higher price range.

As far as me thinking that if I say something is good, everybody who hears it will think the same, no appologies there, I am a bit arrogant, as I said I produced a bunch of albums with name 60's English rock legends who still have their chops and my ears are great and everyone I've ever encountered would agree on that. Hey if I heard your system or someone elses, maybe I would say its better, I don't know.

The point that you're missing is that not everybody shares your preferences. It doesn't matter how good your hearing is, or what rocks bands you might have produced. It's inevitable that someone else with perhaps equally good hearing will totally disagree with your preferences. It would be like presuming that just because you think you're smart, that everybody who's as smart as you should share your political or religious beliefs.

Like I said from the get go, I've yet to hear a sub-$1,000 all-in-one speaker package that even comes close to resolving the typical audio problems with these kinds of small sub/sat systems -- i.e. the audible dropoff in the lower midrange, the poor integration between the low frequencies and midrange, the subwoofers that play notes well into the midrange and give away the location, the severe roll off in the highs with one-way satellite designs, etc. If the Orbs figured out a way to get around these audible problems, then that would be a first. Even the Gallos that the Orbs are clearly copying don't get around these issues.

I just would not say your system is better without having listened to it based on technical specs though which is my whole point and problem with alot of people on this board. I've hardly seen anything stating about people liking something based on sound quality and particularly what sound quality they're talking about. I play alot of classic rock and blues and base my opinons of how that type of music sounds on my speakers. Perhaps if I played classical music it wouldn't sound as good. No one for the most part who even comments on sound quality bothers to refer to what music they're exactly talking about which is a major problem. Maybe a system sounds great playing classical music but the same system won't sound so great playing rock music. What I'm talking about is talking plain simple English which alot of people here do not seem capable of doing.

I still have no idea how you get that impression. People talk about sound quality all the time, and in great detail. What you might mistake for technical jibberish is often very valid explanation for approaches that should be taken to improve the bottomline sound quality. When someone wants to upgrade their subwoofer, I will bring up the issue of room acoustics and standing waves, and tell them that if those issues aren't accounted for then just about any subwoofer they buy will have similar problems. High technical topic, but absolutely essential to understand if you want to maximize the quality of the bass that you hear in your room.

Not everything in audio is as simple as telling somebody that this piece of equipment is the best just because. More often than not, what I find lacking is not the discussion of the equipment, but the discussion of how to properly use it. You can find thread after thread of people, especially newbies, arguing over which $500 receiver sounds best, or which $1,000 bookshelf monitor is superior. But, the most useful information on this (or any other) forum is the discussion of how to properly setup the equipment, and why you should take certain approaches in the calibration. Most of the regulars on this board get that, and you can't really get into these discussions without learning some of the technical details. It's fine to tell someone that a certain speaker kicks butt with hip hop, but how do you make that relevant to someone who has a completely different room setup, different music tastes, etc.? What you hear in one room might give you a completely different impression if you move it next door.

Don't get me wrong, I'm on here because a couple of people have offered me great invaluable help which I totally appreciate. But others sound like they've never had a woman in their life! To me if you can get a system you're happy with, why spend thousands of dollars keep trying to make it better and better ad infinitum unless the technology demands it.

Believe me, most of us on this board are spoken for. Do a word search for WAF (wife acceptance factor) and you'll see what I mean.

I got by with the same system that I bought in college for 16 years. Music is good music no matter what kind of system you're using. When I made the decision to build a home theater system, I allocated my original budget, prioritized my purchases, did a ton of listening, and went with the components that best suited my preferences. Those choices were what best fit my goals and objectives. Are they suitable for everyone? Hardly, and I frequently make recommendations that are different from what I own. A lot of others take a similar approach.

[Woochifer]

so yeah...back to the newb without a clue...

I thought perhaps i should throw up some links to stuff i've been looking at over the past few days and get some feed back to it. I realize that this stuff isn't necessarily the best for the money, however it is all available for me to listen to locally, and thats a key factor in my decision making process. I just wanna say thanks for all the advice, if nothing else its interesting to watch the little mini debates that have sprung up in this thread.

Recievers:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9dAnGW1...&avf=N&search=

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9dAnGW1...&avf=N&search=

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...&s=electronics

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=79249&m=0

For speakers (please be somewhat gentle..keep in mind all along i've said i wanted to buy all at once, i promise for my first house system i'll be more patient...or more rich )

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=76469&m=0

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=76470&m=0

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=65023&m=0

Seems like you're limiting yourself to the mass merchant brands. I would suggest that you also visit some local independent audio stores or higher end chains, if they are available in your area. They will typically carry a different selection of speaker brands, and you should at least give those a listen since brands like B&W, Gallo Acoustics, Boston, Paradigm, Energy, PSB, KEF, Mission, or Dynaudio are not typically carried by the big superstores. Most of these brands offer an all-in-one package that's reasonably good (Energy especially), but as I'll reiterate, give their bookshelf models a test run and see how you like the audio quality.

[chimera128]

In my experience.. I have found a good two channel system more satisfying than a mediocre multichannel system. I enjoy listening to my BP7000SCs in stereo more than any $1000 surround setup I have heard, including the sub/sat system I own. Someone said to start out with the 3 main speakers (center and left/right fronts). That would be my recommendation as well. My first introduction to audio was a sharp rack system my family got. It had 3 way towers with 10 inch woofers which at the time I thought was a really good thing. I think it cost them about $800 back in the day. I don't think it lasted 2 years before components started to break on it. I realized then the value of buying things separately. I also wouldn't recommend the HTIB option just because you get higher quality products when you buy things separately.

IF I were buying a system for $1000 with a cap of $1200... this is what I would buy:

Yamaha or Denon receiver in the $500 range.
If you have to have a sub/sat system the energy system take 5.2 has gotten good reviews, and so has the DefTech procinema80.6. I think the procinema80.6 is $900 retail but you can usually get deftech products for 20% off retail.
However I would recommend maybe getting a good pair of towers, and building your system as you go. Many manufacturers have towers in the sub $1000 range. I like th BP10Bs I use as surrounds (I used them for fronts in my apartment). I picked them up for $660/pair. With good amplification they have plenty of low frequency sound and are very spacious sounding. They are bipolar, which admittedly some people don't like but I love bipolar speakers and all of the people who have listened to mine so far have liked them as well. I'm sure you can get some other tower options in the price range from some other people here.

It was a little disappointing to see the thread go the way it did. I do agree that Hershon's system is basically a HTIB but his love for the speakers he owns shouldn't discredit his opinion of them. After all I think we all give opinions of speakers that we love and his setup did technically meet what blues was looking for. In the $1000 range the orb/jvc combo was probably the best system Hershon found that suited his tastest and needs. Countless people on this forum swear by their hsus, svss, deftechs, etc. but when it comes down to it it is all a matter of opinion.

[hershon]

Whatever. Speak to the hand. By the way none of you did seem to come across an actual system for under $1,000 that can be used as is now. And selling 2 different components manufactured by 2 different entrities does not constitute Theater in a Box. it's not that JVC is a part of Orb. Oh by the way, the guy lives in an apartment where I'm sure he has plenty of room for 5 full size speakers and a sub. I think not. i stand by my remarks.

[Bryan]

As to the drivers stuff, I'm a little bit confused here. The company is Orb the speakers are called Mod 1 or Mod 2, what is nOrh? All I can say is to me they're the best speakers I've ever heard for listening to rock and blues, again especially for the money.

nOrh is a factory direct company based out of Thailand. The 3.0s use Tang Band drivers and the 4.0s and 5.1s (which I also own) use Vifa tweeters and woofers. Overall, nOrh tends to stick with Vifa, Tang Band, and Scanspeak tweeters and woofers.

With music being bluesdoggy's priority, the smaller speakers are not the way to go. He will want towers or bookshelf speakers that can go low. Because the priority is music rather than HT, the nOrh 4.0s wouldn't be the right way for him to go. Likely the same could be said of the Rocket Tyke system or the HSU Ventriloquist. However, the Rocket RS550s, a tower speaker, should work wonderfully for both music and HT. The room is 9.5' x 17.75'. However, it being a dorm room, smaller speakers, such as the Rocket Tyke, Orb Mod-1 or HSU Ventriloquist, may work to his advantage. An excellent subwoofer, such as the HSU VTF-2, Adire Audio Rava, or Rocket UFW-10, is still highly recommended as it will likely stay in his system even after the speakers are upgraded.

bluesdoggy,

If you would like to audition some of the factory direct speakers, ask around. For example, this thread should help you locate Rocket speakers in your area. Axiom has a forum. If you live in Colorado, multiple people there have VMPS, Rockets, or nOrh speakers. For the Tampa Bay area, I have Rockets, SVS, and nOrh (though I am in the process of selling my ceramic 4.0s). I'm reasonbly certain you can find others out there who own Swan Divas, Magnepans, or Ascend Acoustic speakers. Get to know the owners and their tastes. Doing this can take a ton of research but, once you know the owners and what they like and what their personality is, you can find something you will be happy with. For example, I got to know Tyson and his tastes. Through that time I figured out I would probably be happy with nOrh. I bought them and I was. Through more research at AV123 I found who owned nOrh and went to Rockets and why they did so. I figured out I probably would be happy with them so I took that chance and it turned out very well.

Please, by all means, feel free to email the owners of those factory direct companies. For example, Mark Schifter at AV123 is truly a standup and forthcoming guy. He will tell you if what he makes is right for you or if you should look elsewhere. Jon Lane, a salesperson for Swan, is the same way as is Brian Cheney, the owner of VMPS. The same thing goes for Tom Vodhanel and Ron Stimpson of SVS, Klaus of Odyssey Audio, or Mike McCall of Shamrock Audio. Sure, they would all like you to buy their products but their ultimate goal is that you are happy, even if you don't purchase from any of them.

Definately audition some of the speakers Woochifer mentioned. Get an idea of what some of the higher end speakers sound like and what speaker sound you enjoy. I would add NHT, Definitive Technology, and even Martin Logan onto the list. For example, if you enjoy the planer sound (Martin Logan), Magnepan would suit you well. If you enjoy an ever so slightly warmer speaker (Dynaudio), nOrh or Rocket would be excellent. If you enjoy laid back, look to Odyssey. If you like B&W, Swan Diva or Rocket should suit the bill well.

Overall, take your time and do your homework. My experience with the factory direct companies has been wonderfully and very rewarding. Remember, it never hurts to ask if someone in your area has factory direct speakers that you can audition.

[topspeed]

Whatever. Speak to the hand.

Ooh, you GO, girlfriend! That's was perfect!

By the way none of you did seem to come across an actual system for under $1,000 that can be used as is now.

OK, you got me; I didn't provide the electricity to run the damn thing. Maybe I'd better read more carefully next time.
http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/s...7zz&type=store

[Geoffcin]

Good points but I don't agree with you on the Pink Floyd Berloiz point unless a person wants to hear both classical music and rock music. If all I listen to is say rock music then I'd gladly pay less for a system that plays rock great and classical music soso then one that plays them both great. I mainly invest my money on the latest remastered upgrade of 60/70's rock groups and blues stuff then listen to the crap put out today. To be honest, my friends and associates are reasonably articulate people with normal social lives who can express their tastes in plain simple English. As I said, alot of people here can not.

And I've been slowly replacing my old vinyl with DVD-Audio as they become available. Classic rock can be a revelation with a quality system, and I would strongly DISAGREE that your not going to hear a difference between a lower quality vs. high quality system with rock.

Not enough simple English eh? I've been following this post and IMHO most people posting here have been quite easy to understand, and present very lucid arguments.

I agree wholeheartedly with Topspeed on this;

Cambridge Soundworks is really hard to be in the "bang for buck" category. You also get a 10 year warrantee from a company that's likely to be in business far longer than that. If you want to save even MORE money, then shop from them on EBAY for the returned stuff. Still have the same warrantee @ 40% off of retail!

Orb I know nothing about, but if they are another "lifestyles" clone then I choose to remain ignorant happily.