A Newb's Cry for Help (trying to build a small system on a budget)

[This Guy]

Yes Hershon you're right. The only reason I wasted three grand on a Home Theatre system is so I could talk about the technical specifications of the components. I thought I would impress people by telling them what kind of system I have, and I truly believe that three grand was worth it. If you didn't recognize the sarcasm in the post I suggest you stop reading this instant. Now I don't care if you produced 60/70's bands, you like what you like and I like what I like and that doesn't put you ahead of anybody. Now for the receiver. First JVC really doesn't make a great receiver, I know because I owned one. Sure for a $100 they ain't bad, but not for a serious H/T. They can't handle low impediances and have an overated power output. It says it puts out 500 watts, but on the back it said its power source was 350 watts or so. Right there it tells ya it can't put out 500 watts like they claim. Also, it's common sence to not put anything on top of an amplifier because it can over heat. Why do you think manufacturers always say not to place anything on top of the receiver? And, what if it breaks? You got to send the whole thing back to get it fixed. Leaving you without the ability to watch DVD's, or listen to a cd. Now for the speakers. I have a good knowledge of whats on the DIY market, and I found a couple of drivers that will do exactly what orbs do and they were under $20. Ofcourse a single 3" driver can't produce full range, it's hard enough for a huge floorstander to do that. It's physically impossible. The mass of a 3" driver is too much to accurately produce up to 20 khz. And the surface area and excursion are too small to get much past 150 hz in a sealed box. Therefore you need to crossover the subwoofer that high in order for them to blend without a frequency gap. But that's impossible for them to blend well unless you have two of them under the left and right speakers because frequencies over 80 hz are directional. Those are your answers Hershon. When I buy speakers, I tend to look at it's specifications and see if what the manufacturer is saying is legit. I don't pick what I think is cute and what will match the coach and has a dvd/receiever to boot. I'm sorry if I'm more knowledgable with home audio than you are and actually care about what I'm getting. I don't like to read rave biased reviews on the equipment because I know it's all bull ****. It's just a bunch of people trying to comfort themselves in that they made the right decision, even though in their hearts they know they screwed up.

[hershon]

First off I will agree with you that people can like what they like, that's cool. If your happy with your 3 Grand system great, maybe it is wonderful- without having heard anything on it, I can't fairly comment on it. This is where I totally take issue with you. 1. Have you in fact heard CD's and/or DVD's played on Orb Mod 1 or Mod 2 speakers (which is pretty hard as they're only sold directly by the manufacturer not at retail shops). If not, how can you comment on their quality- that to me is totally bogus. 2. You do not know the model of the JVC DVD receiver I'm talking about so how again can you comment on the quality of sound it produces. Maybe you don't like JVC for some reason but again I find your comment on this totally bogus. In regards to the BS recurring comments about what happens if the DVD part of the receiver doesn't work, well I have not experienced this nor has anyone else I know. I admit there is always the slight possibility it could happen but what are the odds. And if so, you can always play another DVD player through it. I play my system in an apartment and its great. My ears are A1 as I've produced a bunch of recordings with name 60's English rock legends and the sound I like, everyone else likes.
The guy who originally posted the thread was interested in putting together a good system for around a $1,000 and I answered him how to do that. For all I know your $3000 system could sound better- I can't comment on it because I haven't heard it but for you to put down systems/speakers that you haven't heard based on some technical mumbo jumbo is total bs.

Yes Hershon you're right. The only reason I wasted three grand on a Home Theatre system is so I could talk about the technical specifications of the components. I thought I would impress people by telling them what kind of system I have, and I truly believe that three grand was worth it. If you didn't recognize the sarcasm in the post I suggest you stop reading this instant. Now I don't care if you produced 60/70's bands, you like what you like and I like what I like and that doesn't put you ahead of anybody. Now for the receiver. First JVC really doesn't make a great receiver, I know because I owned one. Sure for a $100 they ain't bad, but not for a serious H/T. They can't handle low impediances and have an overated power output. It says it puts out 500 watts, but on the back it said its power source was 350 watts or so. Right there it tells ya it can't put out 500 watts like they claim. Also, it's common sence to not put anything on top of an amplifier because it can over heat. Why do you think manufacturers always say not to place anything on top of the receiver? And, what if it breaks? You got to send the whole thing back to get it fixed. Leaving you without the ability to watch DVD's, or listen to a cd. Now for the speakers. I have a good knowledge of whats on the DIY market, and I found a couple of drivers that will do exactly what orbs do and they were under $20. Ofcourse a single 3" driver can't produce full range, it's hard enough for a huge floorstander to do that. It's physically impossible. The mass of a 3" driver is too much to accurately produce up to 20 khz. And the surface area and excursion are too small to get much past 150 hz in a sealed box. Therefore you need to crossover the subwoofer that high in order for them to blend without a frequency gap. But that's impossible for them to blend well unless you have two of them under the left and right speakers because frequencies over 80 hz are directional. Those are your answers Hershon. When I buy speakers, I tend to look at it's specifications and see if what the manufacturer is saying is legit. I don't pick what I think is cute and what will match the coach and has a dvd/receiever to boot. I'm sorry if I'm more knowledgable with home audio than you are and actually care about what I'm getting. I don't like to read rave biased reviews on the equipment because I know it's all bull ****. It's just a bunch of people trying to comfort themselves in that they made the right decision, even though in their hearts they know they screwed up.

[Bryan]

hershon,

This Guy owned a JVC receiver. For that matter, I did too. Let me tell you what I found. The JVC RX-8000V receiver I owned crapped out on me and needed to be repaired. While it was being repaired I found an excellent deal on a Yamaha RX-V496. The Yamaha sounded much better than the JVC. It sounded clearer and cleaner. Highs were crisper with the bass more pronounced. The build quality was much better. IMO, JVC mid to high level receivers can not compete against the likes of Yamaha, Onkyo, Outlaw, Marantz, Denon, or Harmon Kardon entry level receivers.

He is also correct that a 3" driver can not produce full range. The best I heard was the nOrh 3.0s and they came with a single 3" driver. However, to nOrhs credit they listed it as 75Hz - 20KHz. Not the end all be all in the upper range but still very good. They also can not go low but it is not designed for that purpose. Of course, if you doubt what I say, ask the pogue for he bought the 3.0s I used to own.

Orb Audio is going after the Gallo Nucleus Micro (and the like) market and there is nothing wrong with that. It still would be interesting to see what Orbs speaker specifications are. However, much like Bose it appears they are going unpublished.

A tower speaker typically sounds better for music than what bookshelf speaker will. Of course, that is in general. A 3" full range speaker, such as the nOrh 3.0, will not be able to compete against a two way speaker, such as the nOrh 4.0, for music.

The "technical mumbo-jumbo" sometimes is just that. Other times it can give you an indication of how the speaker will sound and if the manufacturer is stretching the truth or exagerating how well the speaker will perform (i.e. + or - 3dbs vs + or - 10dbs).

[hershon]

Good response. My JVC DVD/Receiver is actually Model # RX-DV31SL for which I'm very happy with. The receiver lists for about $455 and I got it for $285 brand new. I have no doubt that you can probably come up with better seperate DVD and receiver units, but they'll cost you significantly more than $285 new and the point of this thread was to come up with a good sounding system for $1,000. To me for the price range, the RX-DV31SL is fantastic. That's all I'm saying and have been trying to say. In regards to how a receiver sounds compared to another receiver, the one thing I've learned is one has to make the comparision based on listening from the same speakers to different receivers.

hershon,

This Guy owned a JVC receiver. For that matter, I did too. Let me tell you what I found. The JVC RX-8000V receiver I owned crapped out on me and needed to be repaired. While it was being repaired I found an excellent deal on a Yamaha RX-V496. The Yamaha sounded much better than the JVC. It sounded clearer and cleaner. Highs were crisper with the bass more pronounced. The build quality was much better. IMO, JVC mid to high level receivers can not compete against the likes of Yamaha, Onkyo, Outlaw, Marantz, Denon, or Harmon Kardon entry level receivers. As to the drivers stuff, I'm a little bit confused here. The company is Orb the speakers are called Mod 1 or Mod 2, what is nOrh? All I can say is to me they're the best speakers I've ever heard for listening to rock and blues, again especially for the money.

He is also correct that a 3" driver can not produce full range. The best I heard was the nOrh 3.0s and they came with a single 3" driver. However, to nOrhs credit they listed it as 75Hz - 20KHz. Not the end all be all in the upper range but still very good. They also can not go low but it is not designed for that purpose. Of course, if you doubt what I say, ask the pogue for he bought the 3.0s I used to own.

Orb Audio is going after the Gallo Nucleus Micro (and the like) market and there is nothing wrong with that. It still would be interesting to see what Orbs speaker specifications are. However, much like Bose it appears they are going unpublished.

A tower speaker typically sounds better for music than what bookshelf speaker will. Of course, that is in general. A 3" full range speaker, such as the nOrh 3.0, will not be able to compete against a two way speaker, such as the nOrh 4.0, for music.

The "technical mumbo-jumbo" sometimes is just that. Other times it can give you an indication of how the speaker will sound and if the manufacturer is stretching the truth or exagerating how well the speaker will perform (i.e. + or - 3dbs vs + or - 10dbs).

[bluesdoggy]

Sorry, didn't mean to start a fuss.

i gues my options are somwhat limited because i've concluded i'm not really comfortable buying something i can't listen to beforehand. This is due mainly to my lack of experience; I figure if it at least sounds good to ME then i should be satisfied for awhile.

[This Guy]

Well Hershon I believe the other posters summed it up for you. I don't have the need or time to keep arguing on something that will go no where. I mean you're telling me I'm looking down on a peace of equipment when I simply said it's the same thing as a home theatre in a box. YOU are the one that got offended by it. Your bias towards your orb is too great for posting on these boards. You reccomend them for absolutely anything, even if the person doesn't need small speakers that can be hidden or already has a DVD player. Read the posts before you reply.

[bluesdoggy]

so yeah...back to the newb without a clue...

I thought perhaps i should throw up some links to stuff i've been looking at over the past few days and get some feed back to it. I realize that this stuff isn't necessarily the best for the money, however it is all available for me to listen to locally, and thats a key factor in my decision making process. I just wanna say thanks for all the advice, if nothing else its interesting to watch the little mini debates that have sprung up in this thread.

Recievers:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9dAnGW1...&avf=N&search=

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9dAnGW1...&avf=N&search=

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...&s=electronics

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=79249&m=0

For speakers (please be somewhat gentle..keep in mind all along i've said i wanted to buy all at once, i promise for my first house system i'll be more patient...or more rich )

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=76469&m=0

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=76470&m=0

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=65023&m=0

[Woochifer]

so yeah...back to the newb without a clue...

I thought perhaps i should throw up some links to stuff i've been looking at over the past few days and get some feed back to it. I realize that this stuff isn't necessarily the best for the money, however it is all available for me to listen to locally, and thats a key factor in my decision making process. I just wanna say thanks for all the advice, if nothing else its interesting to watch the little mini debates that have sprung up in this thread.

Recievers:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9dAnGW1...&avf=N&search=

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9dAnGW1...&avf=N&search=

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...&s=electronics

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=79249&m=0

For speakers (please be somewhat gentle..keep in mind all along i've said i wanted to buy all at once, i promise for my first house system i'll be more patient...or more rich )

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=76469&m=0

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=76470&m=0

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.js...&oid=65023&m=0

Seems like you're limiting yourself to the mass merchant brands. I would suggest that you also visit some local independent audio stores or higher end chains, if they are available in your area. They will typically carry a different selection of speaker brands, and you should at least give those a listen since brands like B&W, Gallo Acoustics, Boston, Paradigm, Energy, PSB, KEF, Mission, or Dynaudio are not typically carried by the big superstores. Most of these brands offer an all-in-one package that's reasonably good (Energy especially), but as I'll reiterate, give their bookshelf models a test run and see how you like the audio quality.

[hershon]

Whatever. Speak to the hand. By the way none of you did seem to come across an actual system for under $1,000 that can be used as is now. And selling 2 different components manufactured by 2 different entrities does not constitute Theater in a Box. it's not that JVC is a part of Orb. Oh by the way, the guy lives in an apartment where I'm sure he has plenty of room for 5 full size speakers and a sub. I think not. i stand by my remarks.

[Bryan]

As to the drivers stuff, I'm a little bit confused here. The company is Orb the speakers are called Mod 1 or Mod 2, what is nOrh? All I can say is to me they're the best speakers I've ever heard for listening to rock and blues, again especially for the money.

nOrh is a factory direct company based out of Thailand. The 3.0s use Tang Band drivers and the 4.0s and 5.1s (which I also own) use Vifa tweeters and woofers. Overall, nOrh tends to stick with Vifa, Tang Band, and Scanspeak tweeters and woofers.

With music being bluesdoggy's priority, the smaller speakers are not the way to go. He will want towers or bookshelf speakers that can go low. Because the priority is music rather than HT, the nOrh 4.0s wouldn't be the right way for him to go. Likely the same could be said of the Rocket Tyke system or the HSU Ventriloquist. However, the Rocket RS550s, a tower speaker, should work wonderfully for both music and HT. The room is 9.5' x 17.75'. However, it being a dorm room, smaller speakers, such as the Rocket Tyke, Orb Mod-1 or HSU Ventriloquist, may work to his advantage. An excellent subwoofer, such as the HSU VTF-2, Adire Audio Rava, or Rocket UFW-10, is still highly recommended as it will likely stay in his system even after the speakers are upgraded.

bluesdoggy,

If you would like to audition some of the factory direct speakers, ask around. For example, this thread should help you locate Rocket speakers in your area. Axiom has a forum. If you live in Colorado, multiple people there have VMPS, Rockets, or nOrh speakers. For the Tampa Bay area, I have Rockets, SVS, and nOrh (though I am in the process of selling my ceramic 4.0s). I'm reasonbly certain you can find others out there who own Swan Divas, Magnepans, or Ascend Acoustic speakers. Get to know the owners and their tastes. Doing this can take a ton of research but, once you know the owners and what they like and what their personality is, you can find something you will be happy with. For example, I got to know Tyson and his tastes. Through that time I figured out I would probably be happy with nOrh. I bought them and I was. Through more research at AV123 I found who owned nOrh and went to Rockets and why they did so. I figured out I probably would be happy with them so I took that chance and it turned out very well.

Please, by all means, feel free to email the owners of those factory direct companies. For example, Mark Schifter at AV123 is truly a standup and forthcoming guy. He will tell you if what he makes is right for you or if you should look elsewhere. Jon Lane, a salesperson for Swan, is the same way as is Brian Cheney, the owner of VMPS. The same thing goes for Tom Vodhanel and Ron Stimpson of SVS, Klaus of Odyssey Audio, or Mike McCall of Shamrock Audio. Sure, they would all like you to buy their products but their ultimate goal is that you are happy, even if you don't purchase from any of them.

Definately audition some of the speakers Woochifer mentioned. Get an idea of what some of the higher end speakers sound like and what speaker sound you enjoy. I would add NHT, Definitive Technology, and even Martin Logan onto the list. For example, if you enjoy the planer sound (Martin Logan), Magnepan would suit you well. If you enjoy an ever so slightly warmer speaker (Dynaudio), nOrh or Rocket would be excellent. If you enjoy laid back, look to Odyssey. If you like B&W, Swan Diva or Rocket should suit the bill well.

Overall, take your time and do your homework. My experience with the factory direct companies has been wonderfully and very rewarding. Remember, it never hurts to ask if someone in your area has factory direct speakers that you can audition.

[topspeed]

Whatever. Speak to the hand.

Ooh, you GO, girlfriend! That's was perfect!

By the way none of you did seem to come across an actual system for under $1,000 that can be used as is now.

OK, you got me; I didn't provide the electricity to run the damn thing. Maybe I'd better read more carefully next time.
http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/s...7zz&type=store