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  1. #1
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    My week with the Samsung BD-P1000 Bluray player

    For the last week or so, I have had the pleasure of auditioning the Samsung Bluray player. It was a great learning experience, and I must admit, I am now really getting a itch that only scratch will take care of. I want to thank Peter from Captain Video for the loan of the player and discs for this informal audition

    I really like the look of the Samsung player, but its functions left alot to be desired. I say this in comparison to a regular DVD player, as many functions on this player are not convient, nor are the buttons on the remote. The boot up period is pretty long in comparison to a regular DVD player, but once you got passed that you are in for a real visual and auditory treat.

    While fully understanding the problems from the Samsung HDMI outputs, I decided to hook both the component and the HDMI outputs to my Grass Valley video processor/switcher to compare the quality of each output. This comparison turned out to be really eye opening, and only confirms the problems that the HDMI has in outputting a clean, accurate video signal. So much for digital from player to display device.

    The movies I auditioned uncluded Stealth, Ultraviolet, Terminator, and Terminator2. As much as I wanted to see The Fifth Element, the video transfer was not well done ( I saw it in the video store) and I didn't want to waste my time with known problems. Also I have all of these titles on SD DVD, and I wanted to compare the PQ and SQ to the upconverted video signal, and a upsampled and unprocessed standard DVD sound.

    Stealth was the first disc I watched, and boy I was not dissapointed at what I saw. The black levels were deep, detailed, and very stable. No sign of grain of specks from the print, and the video took on a very detailed 3D layered look that absolutely blew the SD DVD away. When watching the disc through the HDMI outputs, the picture appeared a bit softer, but no less detailed than with the component outputs.

    For sound, it was no comparison. BR's uncompressed PCM absolutely left the 5.1 DD soundtrack in the dust. The BR soundtrack is just what I built and tweaked my audio system for. The sound was seemless in its panning(the DD seemed compartmentalized by comparison) and moved around the room with such clarity and ease I was completely amazed. Even when I upsampled the DD soundtrack to 96khz, it could not compete with the ease of listening that the BR soundtrack had. The bass was deep, powerful, and very detailed, and the soundstage width, and depth seem to go on forever. I even sensed height information that I have only heard with full bitrate Dts soundtracks.

    T2's picture quality also excelled over the SD DVD on BR. However the soundtracks are ported over from the DVD release, and to these ears offered no difference from them.
    While the picture quality of The Terminator excelled over the SD DVD release, it did not have the stable consistantly good blacks or its consistantly clean look. It was quite good however, but the original print was probably not the best in terms of image consistantancy.
    The audio was quite a different story with 5.1 uncompressed PCM just trouncing the DD 5.1 in clarity, imaging, dialog fullness and 3D like movement around the soundfield.

    Ultraviolet was very clean and clear looking, but also overprocessed much like the SD DVD looked but alot more detailed. I did notice some banding of colors, light pixelization, and some over edginess in some scenes. Still the BR really looked alot better than the SD DVD looks. Audio wise once again it just kicks DD 5.1's butt in every area on the audio map. More dynamic range, better 3D like imaging, deeper cleaner bass, more transparent mids and highs, you name it, it sound better than DD.

    Considering that there are upconverting DVD players that cost more than the Samsung, I think this player is a bit of a bargain. It has its quirks, shortcomings(no advanced codecs supported on this player, which is not a problem for me) and inconsistancies within the software, but overall it performed well in my system. I really wish I had more time to watch more movies on it, but what I saw gave me a good feeling about the potential of this format. I am going to buy into this format when more players reach the market, but the lack of HDMI 1.3, and no advance audio codecs prevent me from jumping in at this time. In saying that, if the price of this player were just a little cheaper, I would not hesitate as a early adopter in purchasing this player.

    Next up, The Toshiba HD DVD player!
    Sir Terrence

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  2. #2
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Thanks for the review Sir TT. Sounds like there is hope for the future, or even for now. I'll still be watching from the fence for a little while, but it's good to know that, "The future is so bright, we've gotta wear shades."
    They'll work out the kinks soon. Prices will drop. More and more movies will become available. Smiles will grow.

    One thing though. This review was very long. You're not really.... Are you? Nah, couldn't be.

    Could it? Uhm, how was the dialog?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  3. #3
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Thanks for taking the time TT. Alot of us fence-sitters have inquiring minds...

    Cheers
    So, I broke into the palace
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    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  4. #4
    Forum Regular edtyct's Avatar
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    Sir TT,

    Any chance of you getting a second crack at the Samsung while you try out the Toshiba? I haven't got my hands on the Samsung yet, but the consensus seems to be that even though in most cases, BD disks look a bit sharper on it than SD disks, it's picture on the whole appears soft relative to the Toshiba's. The uniformity of the problem points to deficiencies in the player, ostensibly the filter inadvertently engaged on the Genesis chip, but people aren't convinced that some of the transfers aren't a bit noisy on their own (compared to the masters). Another problem is that to achieve the much- (over- ) hyped 1080p output, the Samsung player first converts 1080p/24 to 1080i/60 before deinterlacing it to 1080p/60--a circuitous route that appears to have been taken only to trump the Toshiba's 1080i output. This extra step, layered onto the exact same process as occurs in the Toshiba--using the same chip, I might add--may well be a needless complication that compromises performance.

    Your take on the HDMI output matches other findings that I've read and heard. HDMI's inferiority would be counterintuitive, pointing again to faulty implementation in the player; we have enough experience with digital video to know that HDMI done well, even on SD machines, ordinarily has an advantage over analog component. The reason for the flaws won't be clear until other players emerge this fall, but once they are overcome, Blu-ray should look every bit as good as HD-DVD, with the potential to look even better (though not decisively so).

    Ed
    Last edited by edtyct; 09-11-2006 at 09:00 AM.

  5. #5
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edtyct
    Sir TT,

    Any chance of you getting a second crack at the Samsung while you try out the Toshiba? I haven't got my hands on the Samsung yet, but the consensus seems to be that even though in most cases, BD disks look a bit sharper on it than SD disks, it's picture on the whole appears soft relative to the Toshiba's. The uniformity of the problem points to deficiencies in the player, ostensibly the filter inadvertently engaged on the Genesis chip, but people aren't convinced that some of the transfers aren't a bit noisy on their own (compared to the masters). Another problem is that to achieve the much- (over- ) hyped 1080p output, the Samsung player first converts 1080p/24 to 1080i/60 before deinterlacing it to 1080p/60--a circuitous route that appears to have been taken only to trump the Toshiba's 1080i output. This extra step, layered onto the exact same process as occurs in the Toshiba--using the same chip, I might add--may well be a needless complication that compromises performance.

    Your take on the HDMI output matches other findings that I've read and heard. HDMI's inferiority would be counterintuitive, pointing again to faulty implementation in the player; we have enough experience with digital video to know that HDMI done well, even on SD machines, ordinarily has an advantage over analog component. The reason for the flaws won't be clear until other players emerge this fall, but once they are overcome, Blu-ray should look every bit as good as HD-DVD, with the potential to look even better (though not decisively so).

    Ed
    Ed,
    There is a VERY good chance that I will have the Samsung in the house at the same time as the HD DVD player. Peter would like the oportunity to see both on a 1080p capable set as his projector is only 720p.

    There are movies out there that have been released on both formats. The conclusions point to no discernable difference between the two formats visually, even though they both use different video codecs (HD DVD with VC-1 and Bluray with MPEG-2). Bluray used MPEG-2 and uncompressed 5.1 audio, so this whole argument about the uncompressed audio and MPEG-2 being a problem combination has been rendered moot.

    I am going to be honest, I had no intention of getting a HD DVD player period. However the prices have gotten so low, that I just might purchase both formats. I certainly have enough HDMI inputs to accomodate both, and my video processor is due for a 1.3 upgrade at the end of this month. We'll see though how things turn out with my audition of the HD DVD player.

    G, don't make me come over there!!!!! LOLOL
    Sir Terrence

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  6. #6
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

    G, don't make me come over there!!!!! LOLOL
    Come on over. The party is just starting.

    But don't forget your meds.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  7. #7
    Audio/Video Nirvana Registered Member robert393's Avatar
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    Great review TT, thanks for taking the time to share with us! What I would like to know is do you watch HD on you 65" on a regular basis, and if so, how does it compare to what you viewed with BR?

    I would suspect they would be very similar (and far exceed SD DVD), with the BR PQ possible being even better than network TV HD.

    Robert
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  8. #8
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    Kudos!

    TT:

    Thanks for the great info. It's good to know that my wait (however long it may be) will be worth it. Your detailed description of the wonderfulness of the sound processing has me salivating already!

  9. #9
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    Nice review your lordship. I would think that the uncompressed BR audio is CD quality. If that is so the last video machine that gave us this type of sound with movies was Laserdisc with their two channel digital soundtracks(I saw one dvd that supposedly had CD audio for sale which was THIS ISLAND EARTH a few years back). Now you are talking an additional 3.1 tracks here of rather powerful sound. I have read varying reports on both machines around the net. It should be interesting what you have to report on your test of the HD-DVD machine. From what I understand it has Dolby Digital Plus on some soundtracks but that DD+ can only be heard in all its glory thru the analog outputs of that machine. If you do not hook up the analog outputs, the D.D.+ goes thru a conversion to PCM and back into DTS which of course is outputed thru a coaxial or optical cable. By the time you test that machine, there could possibly be discs with 5.1 DD-HD althoug from what I have read, there is a two channel DD-HD track on THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA.

  10. #10
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Ed,
    There is a VERY good chance that I will have the Samsung in the house at the same time as the HD DVD player. Peter would like the oportunity to see both on a 1080p capable set as his projector is only 720p.

    There are movies out there that have been released on both formats. The conclusions point to no discernable difference between the two formats visually, even though they both use different video codecs (HD DVD with VC-1 and Bluray with MPEG-2). Bluray used MPEG-2 and uncompressed 5.1 audio, so this whole argument about the uncompressed audio and MPEG-2 being a problem combination has been rendered moot.

    I am going to be honest, I had no intention of getting a HD DVD player period. However the prices have gotten so low, that I just might purchase both formats. I certainly have enough HDMI inputs to accomodate both, and my video processor is due for a 1.3 upgrade at the end of this month. We'll see though how things turn out with my audition of the HD DVD player.

    G, don't make me come over there!!!!! LOLOL
    Actually I will have to disagree with you here Sir T... The MPEG-2 encoded Blu-ray discs have proven to be inferior to the VC-1 HD DVDs by most professional reviewers (and dare I say myself as well due to compression artifacts abounding on the Blu-ray discs). That said, it is not the MPEG-2 *codec* that is at fault here per se, it is MPEG-2 along with uncompressed PCM tracks fitting on a 25GB disc that is the culprit. I suspect that on a BD50 when they are released, it will not be a problem, as the MPEG-2 will have more room to "roam" so to speak.

    On the discs that are encoded with VC-1 on both formats, the differences are minimal at best, as has been proven out by many of the latest releases by Warner. As such, it appears the problem *was* the use of MPEG-2, it just was not the codec, but *use* of the codec without enough space for it.

    ---Dave
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  11. #11
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelsci
    Nice review your lordship. I would think that the uncompressed BR audio is CD quality. If that is so the last video machine that gave us this type of sound with movies was Laserdisc with their two channel digital soundtracks(I saw one dvd that supposedly had CD audio for sale which was THIS ISLAND EARTH a few years back). Now you are talking an additional 3.1 tracks here of rather powerful sound. I have read varying reports on both machines around the net. It should be interesting what you have to report on your test of the HD-DVD machine. From what I understand it has Dolby Digital Plus on some soundtracks but that DD+ can only be heard in all its glory thru the analog outputs of that machine. If you do not hook up the analog outputs, the D.D.+ goes thru a conversion to PCM and back into DTS which of course is outputed thru a coaxial or optical cable. By the time you test that machine, there could possibly be discs with 5.1 DD-HD althoug from what I have read, there is a two channel DD-HD track on THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA.
    The uncompressed PCM in the case of BRD is not quite CD quality, but does approach it. The DTS MA Lossless will be CD quality or better whenever it is released (I believe a title or two was recently announced for BRD). I believe it has the capability to go to 24 bit audio.

    In the case of HD DVD, you can also output the DD+ from the HDMI out. I have only used it through the analog outs, and it sounds quite good... That said, the Toshiba now has the full 5.1 DD TrueHD Lossless cpabilities through firmware 2.0. I have only watched one disc with DD TrueHD 5.1 (Training Day), but the differences are quite large compared to regular DD (and even DD+). DD TrueHD is CD quality, BTW.

    BTW: Phantom of the Opera is full 5.1 DD TrueHD Lossless, not 2.1. The Toshiba could only play the 2.1 channels orginally, until the firmware upgraded the units to 5.1 capability for the format.

    ---Dave
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  12. #12
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drseid
    Actually I will have to disagree with you here Sir T... The MPEG-2 encoded Blu-ray discs have proven to be inferior to the VC-1 HD DVDs by most professional reviewers (and dare I say myself as well due to compression artifacts abounding on the Blu-ray discs). That said, it is not the MPEG-2 *codec* that is at fault here per se, it is MPEG-2 along with uncompressed PCM tracks fitting on a 25GB disc that is the culprit. I suspect that on a BD50 when they are released, it will not be a problem, as the MPEG-2 will have more room to "roam" so to speak.

    On the discs that are encoded with VC-1 on both formats, the differences are minimal at best, as has been proven out by many of the latest releases by Warner. As such, it appears the problem *was* the use of MPEG-2, it just was not the codec, but *use* of the codec without enough space for it.

    ---Dave
    First, not ALL disc encoded with MPEG-2 and uncompressed audio have been inferior. Second, it has not been definatively determined that the use of this combination is what caused previous image quality problems on bluray. Nobody has seen the printmaster that these titles were struck from, so its all just pure speculation. MPEG-2 doesn't create print scratches, or make the video too dark. MPEG-2 doesn't create film grain.
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  13. #13
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    First, not ALL disc encoded with MPEG-2 and uncompressed audio have been inferior. Second, it has not been definatively determined that the use of this combination is what caused previous image quality problems on bluray. Nobody has seen the printmaster that these titles were struck from, so its all just pure speculation. MPEG-2 doesn't create print scratches, or make the video too dark. MPEG-2 doesn't create film grain.
    Compression artifacts are just that. You are right they do not include discs being darker and the like... but those were not the artifacts I was referring to. The compression artifacts have been shown to be the result of lack of space on the disc to fit the MPEG-2 decode and the uncompressed PCM. There are many references on the web to this effect. The other areas of inferiority most likely are due to the master being off, but it is indeed difficult to tell.

    What *has* been shown is that once VC-1 encodes are used in both formats (with the same masters used for both), the results are almost indistinguishable on the video side.

    ---Dave
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  14. #14
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drseid
    The uncompressed PCM in the case of BRD is not quite CD quality, but does approach it. The DTS MA Lossless will be CD quality or better whenever it is released (I believe a title or two was recently announced for BRD). I believe it has the capability to go to 24 bit audio.
    This is incorrect. The uncompressed PCM tracks on blueray are 16bit and sampled at 48khz Redbood CD is 16/44.1khz. Since the DVD came to market all soundtracks are sampled at 48khz. So bluray's tracks at their minimum meet CD stardards easily, and have the capability to greatly exceed it.

    In the case of HD DVD, you can also output the DD+ from the HDMI out. I have only used it through the analog outs, and it sounds quite good... That said, the Toshiba now has the full 5.1 DD TrueHD Lossless cpabilities through firmware 2.0. I have only watched one disc with DD TrueHD 5.1 (Training Day), but the differences are quite large compared to regular DD (and even DD+). DD TrueHD is CD quality, BTW.
    DDTrueHD is encoded from uncompressed PCM tracks, the same uncompressed tracks that make up a bluray soundtrack. A codec cannot exceed the source in resolution.
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  15. #15
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    This is incorrect. The uncompressed PCM tracks on blueray are 16bit and sampled at 48khz Redbood CD is 16/44.1khz. Since the DVD came to market all soundtracks are sampled at 48khz. So bluray's tracks at their minimum meet CD stardards easily, and have the capability to greatly exceed it.

    I would do a little more digging on this one... ;-) I stand by my statement. Remember that it is not what the maximum capabilities are, it is what is being *used*.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    DDTrueHD is encoded from uncompressed PCM tracks, the same uncompressed tracks that make up a bluray soundtrack. A codec cannot exceed the source in resolution.
    The two are not the same in this case... The DDTrueHD track is indeed limited by the master (and also technically by the codec as well due to its bit level), but the uncompressed PCM used in Blu-ray is not up to the level of the orginal master... Close, as I orginally stated, but not quite there.

    That said, BRD can use DDTrueHD and DTS MA lossless as well, so my belief is they will move away from the uncompressed PCM, and switch to these codecs like HD DVD in the near future. Their use of the uncompressed PCM is primarily due to the Samsung player on the market not having onboard decoders for either. Once players arrive that do, the uncompressed PCM becomes unnecessary for the most part.

    ---Dave
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  16. #16
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drseid
    Compression artifacts are just that. You are right they do not include discs being darker and the like... but those were not the artifacts I was referring to. The compression artifacts have been shown to be the result of lack of space on the disc to fit the MPEG-2 decode and the uncompressed PCM. There are many references on the web to this effect. The other areas of inferiority most likely are due to the master being off, but it is indeed difficult to tell.

    What *has* been shown is that once VC-1 encodes are used in both formats (with the same masters used for both), the results are almost indistinguishable on the video side.

    ---Dave
    I have read just about every review on disc from on the bluray format and HD DVD for that matter. Most complaints that I have read were source related, not compression artifiacts as related to space issues. What you site as references are nothing more that speculation since none of the people have access to the original printmaster. There have been several movies released with both MPEG-2 and uncompressed audio that looked fine to several reviewers, so siting this as a issue specifically is a little dishonest and is typical of the HD DVD camp. A reference doesn't always equal a fact.
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  17. #17
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drseid
    I would do a little more digging on this one... ;-) I stand by my statement. Remember that it is not what the maximum capabilities are, it is what is being *used*.
    Actually I do not have to because it has already been mentioned by Sony that these tracks are sourced DIRECTLY from the original printmaster which was also mastered at 16/48khz.


    The two are not the same in this case... The DDTrueHD track is indeed limited by the master (and also technically by the codec as well due to its bit level), but the uncompressed PCM used in Blu-ray is not up to the level of the orginal master... Close, as I orginally stated, but not quite there.
    Sony would dispute your statement since they have already said that the uncompressed audio on their disc came directly from the printmaster that was mastered at 16/48khz. I work in this industry, and I know for a that most if not all soundtracks released on film were mastered at 16bits and are sampled at 48khz. On this issue you cannot BS me, I have been doing this way too long bro. Without direct access to the printmaster your comments are nothing more than uneducated speculation.
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  18. #18
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    I have read just about every review on disc from on the bluray format and HD DVD for that matter. Most complaints that I have read were source related, not compression artifiacts as related to space issues. What you site as references are nothing more that speculation since none of the people have access to the original printmaster. There have been several movies released with both MPEG-2 and uncompressed audio that looked fine to several reviewers, so siting this as a issue specifically is a little dishonest and is typical of the HD DVD camp. A reference doesn't always equal a fact.
    Go to highdefdigest.com and have at the reviews. You can judge for yourself...

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  19. #19
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Actually I do not have to because it has already been mentioned by Sony that these tracks are sourced DIRECTLY from the original printmaster which was also mastered at 16/48khz.




    Sony would dispute your statement since they have already said that the uncompressed audio on their disc came directly from the printmaster that was mastered at 16/48khz. I work in this industry, and I know for a that most if not all soundtracks released on film were mastered at 16bits and are sampled at 48khz. On this issue you cannot BS me, I have been doing this way too long bro. Without direct access to the printmaster your comments are nothing more than uneducated speculation.
    Sorry... no BS... being sourced from a master, and utilizing the full quality of the master are two separate things. The audio is uncompressed, no one (including Sony) claimed it to be lossless and a clone of the source.

    ---Dave
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  20. #20
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    There have been several movies released with both MPEG-2 and uncompressed audio that looked fine to several reviewers, so siting this as a issue specifically is a little dishonest and is typical of the HD DVD camp. A reference doesn't always equal a fact.

    Just because one movie from one reviewer looks similar, how does that prove anything? Ultimately my statement holds true about MPEG-2. Keep in mind that not all movies are the same length and take up as much disc space. In some cases, the MPEG-2/audio space issue is not a problem due to the movie being shorter or the audio not being in uncompressed PCM (as some disc manufacturers have decided to go for whatever reason on BRD).

    By the way, what reason would I have to spin this in favor of HD DVD? I do happen to own an HD DVD player, but I also have a pre-order in for a Sony Blu-ray player as well at a cost of a whoping $1K (and I own software from both formats). The Blu-ray player cost me double the HD DVD player, so if anything, I have more reason to spin things in favor of BRD to justify my larger investment.

    ---Dave
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  21. #21
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drseid
    Sorry... no BS... being sourced from a master, and utilizing the full quality of the master are two separate things. The audio is uncompressed, no one (including Sony) claimed it to be lossless and a clone of the source.

    ---Dave
    Dave,
    Please sell this rot to stupid people. Uncompressed audio is lossless. No information is thrown away nor does it need to be encoded. It is copied not encoded from the printmaster. The only time you need to encode audio is when you are coding it to another format from PCM as they do with DD and Dts. Uncompressed audio is just what it is, UNCOMPRESSED!

    Go to highdefdigest.com and have at the reviews. You can judge for yourself
    Already been there, and to several other sources as well. Give me a break, you are beginning to sound like a AVSforum clone.
    Sir Terrence

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  22. #22
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Dave,
    Please sell this rot to stupid people. Uncompressed audio is lossless. No information is thrown away nor does it need to be encoded. It is copied not encoded from the printmaster. The only time you need to encode audio is when you are coding it to another format from PCM as they do with DD and Dts. Uncompressed audio is just what it is, UNCOMPRESSED!



    Already been there, and to several other sources as well. Give me a break, you are beginning to sound like a AVSforum clone.
    Sorry you feel that way Sir T... I do hang out at AVSforum quite a bit and like those guys a lot. I may sound like a clone as I share their views on many things. You, of course, are entitled to disagree and feel differently. I guess we will have to respectfully agree to disagree. :-)

    Regards,

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  23. #23
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drseid
    Just because one movie from one reviewer looks similar, how does that prove anything? Ultimately my statement holds true about MPEG-2. Keep in mind that not all movies are the same length and take up as much disc space. In some cases, the MPEG-2/audio space issue is not a problem due to the movie being shorter or the audio not being in uncompressed PCM (as some disc manufacturers have decided to go for whatever reason on BRD).
    I do not believe I mentioned that I got my information from one reviewer or it was related to just one movie. Ultimately your statement does not hold true, and if it does, only in your mind. I am accutely aware that the length of the movie is directly related to the amount of compression applied.

    By the way, what reason would I have to spin this in favor of HD DVD? I do happen to own an HD DVD player, but I also have a pre-order in for a Sony Blu-ray player as well at a cost of a whoping $1K (and I own software from both formats). The Blu-ray player cost me double the HD DVD player, so if anything, I have more reason to spin things in favor of BRD to justify my larger investment.

    ---Dave
    I didn't say any of your comments were spin, I said they were uneducated which is quite different from spin. Nobody should be spinning anything, spin is part of the problem with getting accurate information on both formats. The bottom line is that it is too early in the lifespan of both formats to come to any conclusions. Neither format is finished, hence the several firmware updates on the toshiba, and the upcoming firmware update for the Samsung. Your comments on the uncompressed audio on BR soundtracks wasn't spin, it was just plain wrong.
    Sir Terrence

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  24. #24
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drseid
    Sorry you feel that way Sir T... I do hang out at AVSforum quite a bit and like those guys a lot. I may sound like a clone as I share their views on many things. You, of course, are entitled to disagree and feel differently. I guess we will have to respectfully agree to disagree. :-)

    Regards,

    ---Dave
    I think it is just great that you hang out there. I wouldn't myself, because what is occuring over there in the name of these new formats is disgraceful and disgusting. You have one or more Microsoft guys over there trying to crap on BR and pump up their own video codec. You have the Bluray people pushing back. Both sides are spreading misinformation or partial information to pump up their purchase, its a cryin shame. You attempted to spread misinformation much like the pro HD DVD camp over there and it not cool at all.
    Sir Terrence

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  25. #25
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    I think it is just great that you hang out there. I wouldn't myself, because what is occuring over there in the name of these new formats is disgraceful and disgusting. You have one or more Microsoft guys over there trying to crap on BR and pump up their own video codec. You have the Bluray people pushing back. Both sides are spreading misinformation or partial information to pump up their purchase, its a cryin shame. You attempted to spread misinformation much like the pro HD DVD camp over there and it not cool at all.
    I know the Microsoft guy you are referring to, and I would not call his information "misinformation." He is an insider who most certainly is pro-HD DVD (and his comments need to be considered as such), but he has been a pretty straight shooter IMO and provided a lot of accurate data. You just will not find him pushing the Blu-ray format as it is his competitor. I also would not call what is happening over at AVS "disgraceful and disgusting" either. Just friendly discussion among folks. Isn't that what this hobby is about?

    That said, there certainly are some folks who will say things to "push" whatever product they bought... That to some extent is natural behavior (bias), but I would argue it occurs no more there than any other board... You, of course, are free to disagree (and obviously you do).

    I remember all the flack HD DVD took by the Blu-ray camp in the earlier days. I took a lot of heat when I stated I was buying both formats (oh my, how *can* you buy HD DVD?). The typical Blu-ray response was "How can you support an inferior format that does not output 1080p?" (great BRD FUD there). I find it somewhat amusing how the tables have turned, and now it is the HD DVD camp that are the "bad guys," by your account picking on poor little ol' Blu-ray that has to "push back" from those evil pro-HD DVD folks (sarcasm intended)... I don't care who wins the format war quite honestly, but I do want the best end product for my money -- right now that is HD DVD IMO. If Blu-ray improves (actually it already has a great deal, truth be told) and overtakes HD DVD I will be even more happy as I will have players that can handle both formats, and then I have an even better format than the one I am already happy with now.

    Again, I tend to be pretty on-the-level as a general rule and call things as I see them (I'll leave whether I am "cool" or not to you ;-)). I would say that I have provided no misinformation to the best of my knowledge, just a different take than your impressions and beliefs. If you want to view things differently, I say go for it, but you make a big mistake by implying I and others have some agenda in this. My only agenda is watching (and listening to) a superior format. If it winds up being Blu-ray... great, but if it remains HD DVD, I can easily live with that too.

    Good day,

    ---Dave
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