My week with the Samsung BD-P1000 Bluray player

[drseid]

Ed,
There is a VERY good chance that I will have the Samsung in the house at the same time as the HD DVD player. Peter would like the oportunity to see both on a 1080p capable set as his projector is only 720p.

There are movies out there that have been released on both formats. The conclusions point to no discernable difference between the two formats visually, even though they both use different video codecs (HD DVD with VC-1 and Bluray with MPEG-2). Bluray used MPEG-2 and uncompressed 5.1 audio, so this whole argument about the uncompressed audio and MPEG-2 being a problem combination has been rendered moot.

I am going to be honest, I had no intention of getting a HD DVD player period. However the prices have gotten so low, that I just might purchase both formats. I certainly have enough HDMI inputs to accomodate both, and my video processor is due for a 1.3 upgrade at the end of this month. We'll see though how things turn out with my audition of the HD DVD player.

G, don't make me come over there!!!!! LOLOL

Actually I will have to disagree with you here Sir T... The MPEG-2 encoded Blu-ray discs have proven to be inferior to the VC-1 HD DVDs by most professional reviewers (and dare I say myself as well due to compression artifacts abounding on the Blu-ray discs). That said, it is not the MPEG-2 *codec* that is at fault here per se, it is MPEG-2 along with uncompressed PCM tracks fitting on a 25GB disc that is the culprit. I suspect that on a BD50 when they are released, it will not be a problem, as the MPEG-2 will have more room to "roam" so to speak.

On the discs that are encoded with VC-1 on both formats, the differences are minimal at best, as has been proven out by many of the latest releases by Warner. As such, it appears the problem *was* the use of MPEG-2, it just was not the codec, but *use* of the codec without enough space for it.

---Dave

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Actually I will have to disagree with you here Sir T... The MPEG-2 encoded Blu-ray discs have proven to be inferior to the VC-1 HD DVDs by most professional reviewers (and dare I say myself as well due to compression artifacts abounding on the Blu-ray discs). That said, it is not the MPEG-2 *codec* that is at fault here per se, it is MPEG-2 along with uncompressed PCM tracks fitting on a 25GB disc that is the culprit. I suspect that on a BD50 when they are released, it will not be a problem, as the MPEG-2 will have more room to "roam" so to speak.

On the discs that are encoded with VC-1 on both formats, the differences are minimal at best, as has been proven out by many of the latest releases by Warner. As such, it appears the problem *was* the use of MPEG-2, it just was not the codec, but *use* of the codec without enough space for it.

---Dave

First, not ALL disc encoded with MPEG-2 and uncompressed audio have been inferior. Second, it has not been definatively determined that the use of this combination is what caused previous image quality problems on bluray. Nobody has seen the printmaster that these titles were struck from, so its all just pure speculation. MPEG-2 doesn't create print scratches, or make the video too dark. MPEG-2 doesn't create film grain.

[drseid]

First, not ALL disc encoded with MPEG-2 and uncompressed audio have been inferior. Second, it has not been definatively determined that the use of this combination is what caused previous image quality problems on bluray. Nobody has seen the printmaster that these titles were struck from, so its all just pure speculation. MPEG-2 doesn't create print scratches, or make the video too dark. MPEG-2 doesn't create film grain.

Compression artifacts are just that. You are right they do not include discs being darker and the like... but those were not the artifacts I was referring to. The compression artifacts have been shown to be the result of lack of space on the disc to fit the MPEG-2 decode and the uncompressed PCM. There are many references on the web to this effect. The other areas of inferiority most likely are due to the master being off, but it is indeed difficult to tell.

What *has* been shown is that once VC-1 encodes are used in both formats (with the same masters used for both), the results are almost indistinguishable on the video side.

---Dave

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Compression artifacts are just that. You are right they do not include discs being darker and the like... but those were not the artifacts I was referring to. The compression artifacts have been shown to be the result of lack of space on the disc to fit the MPEG-2 decode and the uncompressed PCM. There are many references on the web to this effect. The other areas of inferiority most likely are due to the master being off, but it is indeed difficult to tell.

What *has* been shown is that once VC-1 encodes are used in both formats (with the same masters used for both), the results are almost indistinguishable on the video side.

---Dave

I have read just about every review on disc from on the bluray format and HD DVD for that matter. Most complaints that I have read were source related, not compression artifiacts as related to space issues. What you site as references are nothing more that speculation since none of the people have access to the original printmaster. There have been several movies released with both MPEG-2 and uncompressed audio that looked fine to several reviewers, so siting this as a issue specifically is a little dishonest and is typical of the HD DVD camp. A reference doesn't always equal a fact.

[drseid]

I have read just about every review on disc from on the bluray format and HD DVD for that matter. Most complaints that I have read were source related, not compression artifiacts as related to space issues. What you site as references are nothing more that speculation since none of the people have access to the original printmaster. There have been several movies released with both MPEG-2 and uncompressed audio that looked fine to several reviewers, so siting this as a issue specifically is a little dishonest and is typical of the HD DVD camp. A reference doesn't always equal a fact.

Go to highdefdigest.com and have at the reviews. You can judge for yourself...

---Dave

[drseid]

There have been several movies released with both MPEG-2 and uncompressed audio that looked fine to several reviewers, so siting this as a issue specifically is a little dishonest and is typical of the HD DVD camp. A reference doesn't always equal a fact.

Just because one movie from one reviewer looks similar, how does that prove anything? Ultimately my statement holds true about MPEG-2. Keep in mind that not all movies are the same length and take up as much disc space. In some cases, the MPEG-2/audio space issue is not a problem due to the movie being shorter or the audio not being in uncompressed PCM (as some disc manufacturers have decided to go for whatever reason on BRD).

By the way, what reason would I have to spin this in favor of HD DVD? I do happen to own an HD DVD player, but I also have a pre-order in for a Sony Blu-ray player as well at a cost of a whoping $1K (and I own software from both formats). The Blu-ray player cost me double the HD DVD player, so if anything, I have more reason to spin things in favor of BRD to justify my larger investment.

---Dave

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Just because one movie from one reviewer looks similar, how does that prove anything? Ultimately my statement holds true about MPEG-2. Keep in mind that not all movies are the same length and take up as much disc space. In some cases, the MPEG-2/audio space issue is not a problem due to the movie being shorter or the audio not being in uncompressed PCM (as some disc manufacturers have decided to go for whatever reason on BRD).

I do not believe I mentioned that I got my information from one reviewer or it was related to just one movie. Ultimately your statement does not hold true, and if it does, only in your mind. I am accutely aware that the length of the movie is directly related to the amount of compression applied.

By the way, what reason would I have to spin this in favor of HD DVD? I do happen to own an HD DVD player, but I also have a pre-order in for a Sony Blu-ray player as well at a cost of a whoping $1K (and I own software from both formats). The Blu-ray player cost me double the HD DVD player, so if anything, I have more reason to spin things in favor of BRD to justify my larger investment.

---Dave

I didn't say any of your comments were spin, I said they were uneducated which is quite different from spin. Nobody should be spinning anything, spin is part of the problem with getting accurate information on both formats. The bottom line is that it is too early in the lifespan of both formats to come to any conclusions. Neither format is finished, hence the several firmware updates on the toshiba, and the upcoming firmware update for the Samsung. Your comments on the uncompressed audio on BR soundtracks wasn't spin, it was just plain wrong.