Can you copy a DVD Audio Disc?

[hershon]

I hope this is one of the ones you copied. I'm going to try and copy this tonight and then playback and compare the sound.

Why would anyone buy a seperate SACD player if they could have a DVD player that plays DVD-A?

I haven't seen a DVD-Audio disc over 3 gigs yet, but I've only looked at maybe 5 of them so far.

And I think I figured out what Woochifer was asking...like nightflier said you can drop off audio tracks (such as spanish and french) or extras and compress the rest down so a dual layer disc fits nicely on a single layer DVD-R.

[nightflier]

...why would anyone buy a seperate SACD player if they could have a DVD player that plays DVD-A?

Because SACD is simply better. Better sound, better technology, and a growing marketshare at the expense of the DVD-A's out there. Just look at the shrinking DVD-A section at just about every music store....

OK, I'm just messing around. I have yet to buy a DVD-A (heard a few at friends' houses and they probably sound just as good). Just wanted to see if you all were still paying attention (don't flame me).

[hershon]

Actually you seem to be pretty accurate I've been to 3 chain stores in LA: Tower, Best Buy and Frys and the SCAD's outnumbered the DVD Adio's about 5 to 1! While I thought the Yes Fragile was great- they did a special remix for it, the Who's Tommy OK, I just bought 3 classical music CD's Holst's The Planets, Tchaicovsky's (spelling sorry) 1812 Overture and a classic collection of him, and I was quite dissapointed. I was expecting fireworks and visions of an entire orchestra in my room, and for my ears only- I'm not a classical music buff but I like the stuff I mentioned, it wasn't 1/4 as spectacular as Yes's fragile. Everything's on Ebay now!

Because SACD is simply better. Better sound, better technology, and a growing marketshare at the expense of the DVD-A's out there. Just look at the shrinking DVD-A section at just about every music store....

OK, I'm just messing around. I have yet to buy a DVD-A (heard a few at friends' houses and they probably sound just as good). Just wanted to see if you all were still paying attention (don't flame me).

[N. Abstentia]

Well I checked the DVD-A's I copied (I copied them just to see if I could) and the answer to the question is yes and no. Yes you can copy a DVD-Audio disc. But no, it does not contain the high resolution tracks. The DD and DTS tracks copy over just fine, but not the actual high resolution MLP tracks.

[nightflier]

I was expecting fireworks and visions of an entire orchestra in my room, and for my ears only- I'm not a classical music buff but I like the stuff I mentioned, it wasn't 1/4 as spectacular as Yes's fragile. Everything's on Ebay now!

Hersh, I can't compare DVD-A to SACD, but what you are hearing on Yes's Fragile is typically more subtle in classical music. I've used classical music to audition equipment, especially speakers, for years and they provide a very good measure to my ears.

I close my eyes and pretend I'm in a concert hall, sitting front-row center. Each time a new instrument starts to play in a symphony, I try to visualize exactly where in front or around me it is located. The better I can localize the instruments, the better the equipment or piece. I also look for the detail and clarity of the instrument and the richness of the bass (Cello and Organ are good measurements for that). Over the years I have collected several versions (CD and SACD) of the familiar recordings such as:

- Beethoven's Symphony #5, fourth movement
- Respighi's Pines of Rome, second movement
- Alan Hovhaness, Storm on Mount Wildcat
- Marcel Dupre, Magnificat VI: Gloria finale

Among others, that I have come to know very well and know what to expect from. I just wouldn't be able to do this with rock, jazz, or pop music, although I do use other music to audition equipment. For example, on a James Taylor SACD, there are fewer instruments to pick out.

I also have several versions of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, including the new one from Telarc with the real cannons (which is the one that's in most stores), and I must confess that apart from the cannon fire from my sub, it's not really that impressive. Sometimes I wonder if I get more kicks out of AC/DC's For Those About to Rock, but it's a whole different mindset for me to get into. One thing that SACD has helped me with quite a bit is setting up my surround system apropriately for movies. I find that surround music, particularly classical music, raises the bar a bit.

Ironically, many rock artists, including Yes were deeply influenced by classical music.

[hershon]

[QUOTE=nightflier]

"I also have several versions of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, including the new one from Telarc with the real cannons (which is the one that's in most stores), and I must confess that apart from the cannon fire from my sub, it's not really that impressive"

Those are my thoughts exactly. The cannons are great but the rest of it I wasn't impressed with- not talking about the music or its quality but with how it was put out on DVD-A. You should buy Yes's Fragile even if you're not into them just for a great reference to compare how these discs should sound like. I'm glad NAbstentia mentioned that one because while I liked Yes I didn't really like them enough to see them or buy their music and buying this DVD-A was a total sonic revalation to me. Whoever mixed it did an incredible job. I thought The Who's Tommy that Pete Townshend remixed was going to be similar but while it wasn't disasterous it wasn't fireworks either. Who knows what goes into the heads of some of these group leaders. I'm still waiting for Charles Manson's "Lie" to come out. Manson believe it or not actually did write and sing some good songs- if you think I'm nuts listen to Look At Your Game Girl which Guns and Roses covered at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip.../4359/lie.html

[nightflier]

Those are my thoughts exactly. The cannons are great but the rest of it I wasn't impressed with- not talking about the music or its quality but with how it was put out on DVD-A. You should buy Yes's Fragile even if you're not into them just for a great reference to compare how these discs should sound like.

Alas, I only have SACD, so the only Yes I have is on CD. That said, I am curious to hear if the 1812 DVD-A is different from the SACD. Anyone out there have a universal player that's willing to test this?

Another question regarding the main topic: anyone ever try to copy an SACD? I've made copies of the hybrid SACD's two channel track onto blank CD's, but that was with two components via the RCA jacks, not a computer.

[N. Abstentia]

Yeah you can copy an SACD's hybrid layer just like a normal CD, but not the SACD layer.

[N. Abstentia]

Why would anyone buy a seperate SACD player if they could have a DVD player that plays DVD-A?

Because a DVD-A only player will not play SACD's. I love most of the DVD-A's I have, but the SACD's I have by Pink Floyd, Peter Gabriel, and Alison Krauss are just phenomenal and and NOT available on DVD-A.

[hershon]

One thing I've learned from this experience is never to buy a DVD-A again unless I see a very positive review or recommendation on it.

How do you go about buying them (do you do this just on the strength of the original album, not a review or friend's recommendation for example?) and how do you decide whether to do SACD or DVD-A if both formats are available? I'm glad you recommended Yes's Fragile, if I hadn't heard that, I would have dismissed DVD-A (and by implication SACD) altogether based on the other stuff I bought.

Because a DVD-A only player will not play SACD's. I love most of the DVD-A's I have, but the SACD's I have by Pink Floyd, Peter Gabriel, and Alison Krauss are just phenomenal and and NOT available on DVD-A.

[N. Abstentia]

Sadly, it's just trial and error right now. Like you said, if you read a good review then it's most likely okay. Most of the ones I buy are because I liked the original CD, and in the case of the Bruce Dickinson and Porcupine Tree DVD-A's, I wish I never would have bought them. They are awful, even though the actual music on them is just outstanding. The moron who did the mix on those two (not the same person) totally ruined the experience.

On the other hand, the DVD-A's by Yes, Queensryche, R.E.M., and The Doors are mind-blowing so it has nothing to do with the DVD-A format. It's all in who does the surround mix.

If a title is available on both SACD and DVD-A...well I would look at DVD-A first because I like the lyrics, videos, photos, bios, and other extras, plus I can make a backup copy and play it on my computer at work. On the other hand if I don't have the regular CD I'll look at the SACD first if it's a hybrid so I can play it in the car or on the computer.

[kexodusc]

N. Absentia: I actually heard some of the Porcupine Tree DVD-A the other day...I thought it was, well, different, but certainly not as bad as your implying. The problem I have is that, for example, Wilson purposely wanted the guitars or whatever to emanate from the corners of the room, so it's not really reproducing the "band live in front of you" effect. Too much instruments flying at you from weird places, but in a way, I guess that's kind of artistic. Not my cup of tea tough.

I feel this would have been more suited to the industrial/techno/ambience genres but, hey, it's artistic, so I give it 7 out of 10.

BTW, isn't there not a 2-channel high rez track on that DVD-A? I only heard the weird artsy surround track.

[N. Abstentia]

Well it's not so much the stuff flying at you from everywhere that I don't like about the Porcupine Tree disc, it's the actual quality of it. The DVD-A loses every bit of punch that the CD has. The drums on the CD sound huge. The drums on the DVD-A sound like tin cans. Guitars on the CD (Strip the Soul is a good example) are huge, in your face. Being (somewhat) a guitar player, I can feel the guitar. On the DVD-A the guitars are thin and sound like they've been put through an echo chamber. Same with the bass guitar. Deep and punchy on the CD, annoying and mid-bassy on the DVD.

Here it is summed up...the DVD-A does not gel. It sounds like 6 totally different things thrown together and they don't belong together.

Now go listen to Fragile by Yes. Drums = huge, in your face..perfect. Guitars...although Steve Howe was never a crunchy chord player...are done right. Squire's bass is just where it should be, and it's deep. And this was recorded in 1971.

[kexodusc]

Hmmm, yeah I think we're talking about the same thing...the guitars and drums are way more concentrated and localized on the cd, they seem to lose some of the texture there.
But from what I've read and heard, Wilson had all the input and direction in that, so maybe it was his grand vision...I'll have to listen to it a few more times, but I don't own it...say, if you don't want that thing, I could probably take it off your hands

And doesn't it have a 2-channel track on it? Surely that would be dynamic and punchy? Don't make me eat all the things I've been saying to people that swear these don't sound any better than CD's.