May be a table finally.

[frenchmon]

Frenchmon, you must be turning on the charm and living right

I dont think she sees it like that...I get fussed out every day around here for no reason...

[poppachubby]

When are you expecting the table Frenchie? Have you got the LPs yet? I am excited for you...

There are some great re-issues coming out in 45rpm. Tons of jazz classics. The 45 rpm re-issue is supposed to be the cats meow.

Maybe for Xmas your wife can get you this...http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001LM5TUC/?tag=hashemian-20

...or maybe you can buy it for me.

[frenchmon]

When are you expecting the table Frenchie? Have you got the LPs yet? I am excited for you...

There are some great re-issues coming out in 45rpm. Tons of jazz classics. The 45 rpm re-issue is supposed to be the cats meow.

Maybe for Xmas your wife can get you this...http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001LM5TUC/?tag=hashemian-20

...or maybe you can buy it for me.

I have Giant steps on CD. I can send you a copy if you tell me how. Drop me a PM...The table is to be in today...I will go and get the albums next week...mom lives a little distance from me.

How do I go about chosing a cart? Is it by the tracing force? whats the difference between MM and MC carts? Where can I go online to educate my self?

[frenchmon]

Another question for you vinyl junkies...I have built in phone on my preamp...but would I be better served with an external phone stage

[jrhymeammo]

Another question for you vinyl junkies...I have built in phone on my preamp...but would I be better served with an external phone stage

http://www.rotel.com/content/manuals/rc1090_multi.pdf
According to the manual on page 8, it seems your preamp is capable of all types of cartridge, including low output moving coil. But if you go with LOMC, noise may become an issue, and LOMC cartridges tend to be expensive.
Does your TT come with the Tracker cartridge?

I would stick to your internal phonostage for now, and save up for a good external unit down the road. There are tons of sub $200 external units, but I would want to make sure it's an upgrade and not a lateral move. If TT comes premounted, then forgot about upgrade, just enjoy music for now, my friend. We'll be here when you need to upgrade after you had time to break'er in.

Peace

[poppachubby]

Agreed, use your current pre amp. Does the table have a cart with it? I told you I will send you the Ortofon if you want. Budget cart, but a good place to start. Like JRA said, you need to start listening and get an ear for vinyl. I wouldn't drop too much to begin. Once your tastes develop, your ear will know what's what. From this point you can seek out a better cart or stage.

I have the Ortofon OMB-10 for you. It's virtually new, with about 50 hours on it. Perfect, broken in so you can get right to listening with it's full potential. Remember the stylus is upgradable. The OM-20 and OM-30 stylii represent some pretty sweet fidelity. I wouldn't worry about MC right now, perhaps start reading about high output moving coil (HOMC).

To give you some perspective, my local shop equips their Pro-Ject Debut tables with an Ortofon OM-10.

Some good reading...

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/d.pl?...faq.html#vinyl

[poppachubby]

Keep in mind Frenchie, going to vinyl from a CDP can be a bit of a slap in the head. The output of a CDP leans on the powerful side, whereas your TT will be subtle. Don't be afraid to turn up your volume knob a bit, and remember that in that subtlety lies the dynamics that can turn a CDP out.

[frenchmon]

http://www.rotel.com/content/manuals/rc1090_multi.pdf
According to the manual on page 8, it seems your preamp is capable of all types of cartridge, including low output moving coil. But if you go with LOMC, noise may become an issue, and LOMC cartridges tend to be expensive.
Does your TT come with the Tracker cartridge?

I would stick to your internal phonostage for now, and save up for a good external unit down the road. There are tons of sub $200 external units, but I would want to make sure it's an upgrade and not a lateral move. If TT comes premounted, then forgot about upgrade, just enjoy music for now, my friend. We'll be here when you need to upgrade after you had time to break'er in.

Peace

Thanks for the advice about the phono stage...i can wait until I get use to the vinyl sound. I think this is going to be different from the days back in the 80's. But I have read a few reviews that said to dump the cheap cart that comes with the table...got any recommendations?

[frenchmon]

Agreed, use your current pre amp. Does the table have a cart with it? I told you I will send you the Ortofon if you want. Budget cart, but a good place to start. Like JRA said, you need to start listening and get an ear for vinyl. I wouldn't drop too much to begin. Once your tastes develop, your ear will know what's what. From this point you can seek out a better cart or stage.

I have the Ortofon OMB-10 for you. It's virtually new, with about 50 hours on it. Perfect, broken in so you can get right to listening with it's full potential. Remember the stylus is upgradable. The OM-20 and OM-30 stylii represent some pretty sweet fidelity. I wouldn't worry about MC right now, perhaps start reading about high output moving coil (HOMC).

To give you some perspective, my local shop equips their Pro-Ject Debut tables with an Ortofon OM-10.

Some good reading...


http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/d.pl?...faq.html#vinyl

OK...I'll take the cart poppaC...and I betcha santa will be good to you christmas. Still got my address? The reviews said it comes with a cheap cart.

[frenchmon]

Keep in mind Frenchie, going to vinyl from a CDP can be a bit of a slap in the head. The output of a CDP leans on the powerful side, whereas your TT will be subtle. Don't be afraid to turn up your volume knob a bit, and remember that in that subtlety lies the dynamics that can turn a CDP out.

I cant wait. I remember going from playing records in the 80's to C, was an eye opener back the...sold all my albums, and I had a lots of albums back then....we use to keep them in those "peaches" crates. Now I am doing the reverse. Wonder if it will make me get rid of my CD's? LOL!

[Jack in Wilmington]

Hey Frenchie, Congrats on your excursion in the world of vinyl. I have the MMF 2.1 LE and it is a very nice starter table. I would say it is a small step above the Rega's and the Project entry level tables. I'm starting to look at an upgrade table now after about a year. So enjoy and give yourself a little while to get back into vinyl. The year has given me a chance to build up a small collection of 180 and 200 gram LP's that will only sound better on a better table.

[poppachubby]

Technically the OM-10 is "cheap". Let's see what arrives with it.

[02audionoob]

As far as I've seen, the mmf-2.1 ships with a Goldring Elan. That cartridge would probably give a presentation that is perhaps smooth and warm by comparison to most Ortofon cartridges. I would definitely give the Elan a try...especially since it will be mounted and aligned, already. I would think the Ortofon OM cartridges would be a good match for the 2.1's tonearm, if you like the Ortofon sound. I would imagine if I owned a 2.1, I'd never seriously consider an MC cartridge for it, unless maybe I'd consider a Denon DL-110. There are too many better MM options.

[frenchmon]

Hey Frenchie, Congrats on your excursion in the world of vinyl. I have the MMF 2.1 LE and it is a very nice starter table. I would say it is a small step above the Rega's and the Project entry level tables. I'm starting to look at an upgrade table now after about a year. So enjoy and give yourself a little while to get back into vinyl. The year has given me a chance to build up a small collection of 180 and 200 gram LP's that will only sound better on a better table.

Thanks Jack...it just arrived about 1/2hour ago.I think I will wait until tomorrow to assemble it seeing I dont have any albums at my home. What did the LE look like? Got any pictures of it? And what cart do you use? How is teh phono imput on the Onkyo?

[frenchmon]

Technically the OM-10 is "cheap". Let's see what arrives with it.

Its got a Music Hall tracker cart.

[frenchmon]

As far as I've seen, the mmf-2.1 ships with a Goldring Elan. That cartridge would probably give a presentation that is perhaps smooth and warm by comparison to most Ortofon cartridges. I would definitely give the Elan a try...especially since it will be mounted and aligned, already. I would think the Ortofon OM cartridges would be a good match for the 2.1's tonearm, if you like the Ortofon sound. I would imagine if I owned a 2.1, I'd never seriously consider an MC cartridge for it, unless maybe I'd consider a Denon DL-110. There are too many better MM options.

noob...kindly explain what the difference is and teh advantage is of OM cart, a MC cart, and a MM cart. And why would you go with a MM cart? Sorry...ima dummy.

[02audionoob]

noob...kindly explain what the difference is and teh advantage is of OM cart, a MC cart, and a MM cart. And why would you go with a MM cart? Sorry...ima dummy.

The Music Hall Tracker is a Goldring built to Music Hall's specs, so it should sound like a Goldring. Most budget cartridges are MM, with quite a few exceptions. They utilize a technology that in general produces less detail than MC. This is not necessarily a bad thing. The MM sound can often seem more relaxed that MC, on average. The Ortofon sound leans a little away from that, to some people's ears sounding maybe more like the MC cartridges than most MM cartridges.

The reason I might go with a MM cartridge is largely the multitude of options in the budget price range. For around $100 or less, you could have an Ortofon 2M Red, Ortofon OM-10, Nagaoka MP-11, Shure M97XE, Audio-Technica AT95E, Goldring Elan, etc. The closest to that price range among the MC cartridges is the Denon DL-110 at $139 and after that nothing is even all that close, except for the Denon DL-160 at $179 and the Ortofon MC1 at $175.

Also...Many of the MM cartridges weigh more and use lighter tracking forces than many of the MC cartridges...something that will probably match up better with the light tonearm on the mmf-2.1.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Thanks Jack...it just arrived about 1/2hour ago.I think I will wait until tomorrow to assemble it seeing I dont have any albums at my home. What did the LE look like? Got any pictures of it? And what cart do you use? How is teh phono imput on the Onkyo?

Can't seem to get the pictures loaded. It's the same as your table but the plinith is finished in a Ferrari Red color. I'm using the Tracker that came with the table. The Onkyo phono input only handles MM cartridges so I couldn't see putting a lot of money in a high dollar cart. When I upgrade, I'll stepup to a better cart. I did buy a level and a stylus brush and some good record sleeves.

[poppachubby]

Congrats Frenchie!! Make sure you find a nice spot for your new table. It's not suspended so it will be susceptible to vibrations. Clear and away from the speakers obviously, and not atop anything that is prone to vibrating. Your new word of the day....islolate!!

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon, a couple models of the Dynavector are Moving Coil high output which means they have the benefit of Moving Coil but can be played through the MM input. Wylie and I were talking about those Saturday, not sure if you were tuned in to us during that time or enjoying the music. One would cost more than you paid for your current table though. I use Moving Magnet myself.

[poppachubby]

Frenchmon, a couple models of the Dynavector are Moving Coil high output

pffft...that's so post 81...

[Mr Peabody]

pffft...that's so post 81...

Quit whining like a little school girl.

[poppachubby]

Frenchmon, a couple models of the Dynavector are Moving Coil high output which means they have the benefit of Moving Coil but can be played through the MM input. Wylie and I were talking about those Saturday, not sure if you were tuned in to us during that time or enjoying the music. One would cost more than you paid for your current table though. I use Moving Magnet myself.

This decision shouldn't be based on cost ratios. The more important question is whether the arm and cart are a good match, and if the arm can exploit the carts full potential. I don't know the 2.1's arm, so I can't comment on a well suited HOMC. A good idea would be to contact Needle Doctor for advice.

The HOMC would be a great idea for someone in Frenchie's position. Unsure about vinyl, but has an experienced ear and requires a certain amount of fidelity. These carts are worlds beyond a typical MM, however not as capable as their MC cousins. I think the 2.1 will be too noisy for a proper MC cart.

SL-1200 owners are a great example of this. Ask a typical 1200 owner about his deck, he'll tell you the speed stability is king, but the arm not so much. At a minimum, these guys usually mod the stock arm, however, alot replace the arm altogether. From this point they'll put a fancy HOMC or MC cart on it.

There's a wonderful selection of these carts now, with a few like the Blue Point and DL-160 even having cult status already. Well worth the investment, if the conditions are ripe for it.

At roughly $180, some might argue that the Denon DL-160 is one of the best cartridge values out there.

[RGA]

The MM Carts typically reside in the budget arena and that is often why MC carts are said to be better (but they cost more) and like most things the more you pay the more you get. So yes a $2,000 MC cart will sound better than $150 MM cart but a $1000 MM cart will sound better than $400 MC cart.

My Cartridge sounds like an MC cart in most ways without some of the problemsrelated to picking up external noise or fussiness of set-up. It is Audio Note's top of the line MM cart and runs $1,200. For me for personal use it is an end of the road kind of cartridge. Moving up would be their entry level MC cart at about $3,000 where in their view is the beginning of where MC technology begins - and thye have tried every competing MC cart in the world.

The issue become about money. I can't speak for every turntable set-up of course - not at all - but going down the MC road and to do it better than the best MM carts will cost a ton. My dealer carries several of the best known turntables and carts and when they get into MC carts they also prefer to put them on better turntables - their favorite "budget" (chortle chortle) high end table is the Voyd Reference or old TT2 with three motor system. Used you'd probably pay $5,000.

It's a road I will look at but probably 10-15 years down the line. I would recommend against the Shure M97xE however. I had one for years - it is a very nice sounding cart for the money but it really doesn't let the star qualities of vinyl through. It has a kind of dead sound. Quiet and tracks great. Perhaps I am being unfair comparing it to my new cart at many times the price but the big improvement in the "jump factor" and live open presentation is startling and I can't go back. Maybe look at a Shure's top of the line MM as it might open up more.

[poppachubby]

Indeed Rich, things get murky when one must consider high end MM vs. MC. I have heard the 2M Black several times on three different tables, it was impressive in each case. I think most vinyl types view MM beneath MC, but on some occasions this isn't the case.

You didn't mention anything regarding HOMC. No thoughts on these?