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  1. #51
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Byron, after tons of love my Pioneer is the best i have. It's not even close to the VPI you listened to. Forget about "audiophile" approval and just start looking at design quality. The better tables are spec'd to the highest tolerances possible. All parts are made to perform flawlessly, allowing the table to spin perfectly, while experiencing no vibration or interference.

    Appearance has nothing to do with it. It should be the last consideration. Some of the newer tables employ function BEFORE form. As a result they can be viewed by some as ugly. OIne thing's for sure, they don't sound ugly.

    If you want my opinion, combine everything together to find the table that's right for you. Looks and performance in a vintage deck. Your assessments are on par for a VPI table. I think with the right set up, which doesn't have to break your wallet, you will be dropping your CDP at Goodwill. Nothing sounds as good as a mint condition Jazz LP through a tough system, NOTHING!! Trust me, you haven't heard what a tenor sax can sound like through your gear yet...

    How about these, keep in mind prices vary depending on the arm, cart and mods. These can be found inside your budget....

    Systemdek IIx



    Ariston RD-11s



    Acoustic Research ES-1



    Thorens TD-160

    Wow poppaC...those tables are beautiful with lots of character. Thanks for your help. BTW last night when hanging with Peabody at our friends house...he fired up his vintage VPI deck (which he will be putting on audiogon soon,) and played an old Ray Brown trio LP imported from Japan. Mr Peabody noticed right away how smooth and quiet it was....it was a thing of beauty.

    frenchmon
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  2. #52
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    I have a loaner Thorens TD150mk2 with custom plinth right now. It is matched with my modded RB-250 with usual gear. This table is very very good. The motor puts out audible noise, but is not audible thru my speakers. I'm enjoying organic music I used to relish.
    The only problem I see is that I'm already scheming to buy this from him, but I have about 2 weeks to play with it so I'll try to stay cool...

    If you have access to a pile of clean LP, why not get a TT? Music is music, right?
    Im really leaning that way...I have to get my dads old blues albums for moms house. The vintage VPI table we listen to last night had a hum you could hear from your sitting position. But once you played music, the hum disappeared....nothing but musical bliss after that.

    Can you upload any pictures of that table??? I want to see its character and beauty.

    frenchmon
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  3. #53
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    I feel like I had to decide whether I was buying audio equipment or furniture. My turntable isn't anything special and it won't win any beauty pageants, but I wouldn't trade it for a Marantz 6300, a Dual CS5000, a Pioneer PL-50 or probably any other of those mid-fi beauty queens. I just don't think it takes much to beat them, for my taste. I'll definitely admit the ones Chubbs posted are nice and are good, but I can't get sound I like out of just anything with wood grain and a sexy S-shaped arm.
    Thats my fear noob....while they are sexy I want good sound as well....man I love sound! Why cant you get sound out of one? It cant be the wood because the vintage VPI last night was wood and had great sound. So why not sound from vintage? And what table are you speaking of....the Music Hall? If so that's one of the better looking ones of contemporary tables....IF I had to buy new...that would be it...she not as sexy as vintage, but she got appeal.

    frenchmon
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  4. #54
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon
    Im really leaning that way...I have to get my dads old blues albums for moms house. The vintage VPI table we listen to last night had a hum you could hear from your sitting position. But once you played music, the hum disappeared....nothing but musical bliss after that.

    Can you upload any pictures of that table??? I want to see its character and beauty.

    frenchmon
    Did you state somewhere that VPI was matched with a Grado cart? Grado hums with certain TT so not sure if that was the problem. It could've been grounding or cabling issue.
    Do you know which VPI it was?

    Here is a pic. I wish I could say it's mine but it's not.
    May be a table finally.-thorens-td150mk2.jpg

  5. #55
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Beauty JRA!

    Frenchie you could get a used Music Hall like noob's for under $500. Frankly I think that would be a great way to go. It's a fantastic performer and the type of table you could live with for quite some time. They are also upgrade friendly.

    I am currently saving for a TT upgrade. Still not 100% on where I'll end up.

    I have worked hard on my Pioneer, like all of my tables. I can say it's dead quiet and spins with incredible stablilty. Combined with the rest of my chain and a sweet LP, it's got a fantastic sound easily equivelant to the entry level Music Halls and Pro-Jects of the world. My non-audio friends "can't believe it's not a CD". But then again, what do they know?!? Lol.

    Many people enjoy those tables but my advice to you is spend less or spend more. That price point is an odd one in the new category. As I said earlier, going used for a bit more will net you a much nicer machine.

    Don't forget to consider your phono stage and cart in this deal...

  6. #56
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Did you state somewhere that VPI was matched with a Grado cart? Grado hums with certain TT so not sure if that was the problem. It could've been grounding or cabling issue.
    Do you know which VPI it was?

    Here is a pic. I wish I could say it's mine but it's not.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Pardon my french..but...DAM! wow! Theres nothing vintage about that table...what year?

    Boy that thing is sexy beautiful!

    I think MrP may have said it had a Grado cart...if so, then I will pass it on to my friend who has the VPI.

    frenchmon
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  7. #57
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Beauty JRA!

    Frenchie you could get a used Music Hall like noob's for under $500. Frankly I think that would be a great way to go. It's a fantastic performer and the type of table you could live with for quite some time. They are also upgrade friendly.

    I am currently saving for a TT upgrade. Still not 100% on where I'll end up.

    I have worked hard on my Pioneer, like all of my tables. I can say it's dead quiet and spins with incredible stablilty. Combined with the rest of my chain and a sweet LP, it's got a fantastic sound easily equivelant to the entry level Music Halls and Pro-Jects of the world. My non-audio friends "can't believe it's not a CD". But then again, what do they know?!? Lol.

    Many people enjoy those tables but my advice to you is spend less or spend more. That price point is an odd one in the new category. As I said earlier, going used for a bit more will net you a much nicer machine.

    Don't forget to consider your phono stage and cart in this deal...
    I just spoke with the gentlemen who has the table for sale and he said its a pioneer PL-10

    heres a picture of one like it.



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us

    He said his is in mint condition...he also has a Rotel amp and some Snell Acoustic speakers....im to meet with him thursday. Do you think its a piece of junk??? He wants $70 bucks...to much??? Personally I think I can do better than that.

    poppaC, my friend is a Music Hall dealer...he may be able to get that table a little less than $500. He also thinks I should not wast my time with vintage tables.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  8. #58
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon
    Theres nothing vintage about that table...what year?

    frenchmon
    I believe it's from 1969-1973.

  9. #59
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon

    He said his is in mint condition...he also has a Rotel amp and some Snell Acoustic speakers....im to meet with him thursday. Do you think its a piece of junk??? He wants $70 bucks...to much??? Personally I think I can do better than that.

    poppaC, my friend is a Music Hall dealer...he may be able to get that table a little less than $500. He also thinks I should not wast my time with vintage tables.
    The PL-10 isn't a piece of junk, but you should move on. If he is including a reasonable cart, $70 wouldn't be the worst price if it's mint.

    As far as your buddy's advice, I sort of agree. In your case, with minimal experience and knowledge, it will take alot of work to get a vintage up to snuff. There is dollar value in not having to muck around, and just being able to "plug and play". I think a vintage table could be satisfying, but only if said effort is put in.

    On the other hand, don't let him talk you into a 2.2. Check out the Genie I posted in the beginning of this thread. Much better table. They've been making them for years in Europe, wildly popular, and now are available here.

    The used MMF 5 and 5.1 go anywhere from $350 - 600. You want a good deal? Buy this right now and be done with it....for life. Check out the cart too. I have heard the G1012 on a Concept and it sounded amazing. Great value...offer him 650 if you're feeling spunky.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....-1-Perfect-w-u

  10. #60
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    I believe it's from 1969-1973.
    Well I guess im just wrong...it looks more 2000ish. I hope you get it...im sure it sounds as good as it looks. Its not all stock is it? Its got to be a mod.

    frenchmon
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  11. #61
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon
    Thats my fear noob....while they are sexy I want good sound as well....man I love sound! Why cant you get sound out of one? It cant be the wood because the vintage VPI last night was wood and had great sound. So why not sound from vintage? And what table are you speaking of....the Music Hall? If so that's one of the better looking ones of contemporary tables....IF I had to buy new...that would be it...she not as sexy as vintage, but she got appeal.

    frenchmon
    I don't object to the wood. In fact, I like it. It's just not enough to sell me on a turntable. Under the wood veneer is usually MDF, just like under the paint on my MMF-5.

    I've owned three Marantz turntables, including the 6300, and it's just not the same sound as the MMF-5. It's debatable which is better. To me, the difference between the common direct-drive turntables and the MMF-5 is like the difference between an electric guitar and an acoustic guitar.

  12. #62
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    I don't object to the wood. In fact, I like it. It's just not enough to sell me on a turntable. Under the wood veneer is usually MDF, just like under the paint on my MMF-5.

    I've owned three Marantz turntables, including the 6300, and it's just not the same sound as the MMF-5. It's debatable which is better. To me, the difference between the common direct-drive turntables and the MMF-5 is like the difference between an electric guitar and an acoustic guitar.
    Well I like electric guitar...but I love acoustic guitar. Which one says vintage and which one says contemporary ? BTW noob...thanks for all your insight.

    frenchmon
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  13. #63
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon
    Well I like electric guitar...but I love acoustic guitar. Which one says vintage and which one says contemporary ? BTW noob...thanks for all your insight.

    frenchmon
    You're quite welcome. I'd say you can get both with the old stuff and both with the new stuff. If I went with vintage, I'd probably look at some of the stuff posted here...Thorens, Systemdek, etc. In one limited listen to a Linn LP12 a few months ago I'd say I was very impressed. That's a vintage turntable I'd love to have. They're not cheap, though, and they require some maintenance and expertise.

  14. #64
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Wonderful vintage table by Oracle, masters of analog.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....abl&1278606806

  15. #65
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Noob,jrhymeammo and PoppaC.....Well I was going to buy a used Dual TT of craigslist, but wife talked me into getting a demo Music Hall on clearance at MusicDirect.com. so if I like playing records again, i will upgrade to a better TT...if not then I will sell it

    frenchmon..
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  16. #66
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Which model, 2.2?

  17. #67
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    actually I was looking at a dual turntable on caigslist when my wife placed a printout of a 2.1 on my lap and said I should order it....I had my reservations at first seeing it had mixed reviews...mostly good ones, but some complained about the cheap needle and the tonearm....but when she offered to paid for it i was willing to take the chance seeing it was discounted on Music direct. So I may be leaning on you and noob to help me to get the best out of it...which may not be much...but maybe enough to see if I want to go this route.

    frenchmon
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  18. #68
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    It will do fine, particularily as a "first" table. I was thinkin more of long term satisfaction when I was speaking against it.

    AudioGon has some wonderful stuff right now. That Oracle Alexandria would absolutely destroy the 2.2 and give an MMF 5 a run for it's money.

    Check this out, I thought of you right away. This is one of Pioneer's most revered vintage tables, the arm is one of their best. It was on sale for $350, but of course has now sold. Still with the box, minty!! the Oracle is still available, and I am franatically trying to put together an extra 200 bucks to snatch it up.

    http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.p...abl&1278199649


  19. #69
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon
    ....but when she offered to paid for it...
    frenchmon

    I have been moved to tears. This is the best love story I have ever read. Take that woman and give her a hug for me, and every other audiophile in the entire world. Mrs. Frenchie, we salute you...


  20. #70
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Have you seen the new Pro-Ject RPM 1.3 Genie? For $499 it would appear to compete beyond it's price. Lots of trickle down technology applied to it. I'm thinking hard about getting one. My local dealer will be getting a couple in soon, I can't wait to hear it.
    That's a terrible price for the Genie. It sells here for the equivalent of 280 USD, including tax...

  21. #71
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    That's a terrible price for the Genie. It sells here for the equivalent of 280 USD, including tax...
    Should I form a list of all the products that Europeans "pay too much for". The Genie has been succesfully selling in Europe for some time. If you want to understand it's value in N. America, firstly look at it's standing in the Pro-Ject line up. Then, consider all the trickle down technology it contains, and compare it to other tables in it's range. You can step up one price class and see that it can compete with some of those tables.

  22. #72
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    I have been moved to tears. This is the best love story I have ever read. Take that woman and give her a hug for me, and every other audiophile in the entire world. Mrs. Frenchie, we salute you...


    LOL...you crack me up.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  23. #73
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    I think Ajani talked about the price difference in different places a while back. It has more todo with the region rather teh product it self....if they can get more here than there...the market will show it.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  24. #74
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    It will do fine, particularily as a "first" table. I was thinkin more of long term satisfaction when I was speaking against it.

    AudioGon has some wonderful stuff right now. That Oracle Alexandria would absolutely destroy the 2.2 and give an MMF 5 a run for it's money.

    Check this out, I thought of you right away. This is one of Pioneer's most revered vintage tables, the arm is one of their best. It was on sale for $350, but of course has now sold. Still with the box, minty!! the Oracle is still available, and I am franatically trying to put together an extra 200 bucks to snatch it up.

    http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.p...abl&1278199649

    isnt she lovely...isnt she wonderful!
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  25. #75
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    Frenchmon, you must be turning on the charm and living right

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