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  1. #126
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Frenchmon from what you've told me of the albums you acquired, a lot of your noise is due to the condition of the vinyl. A well taken care of LP can be decently quiet. With that being said I still hear noise between tracks unless it's an exceptional LP. this is why I don't like Classical on LP. If you've accepted Poppa's offer for the Ortofon that would be a good place to start. I've never used Grado carts but if they design them to respond like their headphones..... that could account for the sound you describe. Your Cantons are also very revealing in the midrange which is going to accentuate noise in that area.
    MrP...I dont think its a Grado Cart that I have. From what I have been reading about Grado carts they may have the sound I like....no roll off. The noise I hear is from me not washing the albums as PoppaC and noob discribed....and of course teh scratches. I have also some bad recordings I think.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  2. #127
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    Frenchmon, every few months there is a record show close to where I live. The next one is in July. They have them at the Czech Hall on Kingshighway and Landsdown. Most of the vinyl I've gotten there unless out of budget boxes has been excellent. No guarantee though, you always want to check before buying. Many vendors set up tables full of LP's and CD's. Usually very well priced. Bad thing they are always on Sunday.

  3. #128
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    Typically, I've found older music, 50's/60's or even older, as long as the original recording was decent, LP sounds much better than it was ever transferred to CD. I have an excellent quality Doris Day LP. Even though mono the sound quality is very good. Same with my LP of Dancing In The Rain, soundtrack to the movie and performed by Louie Armstrong. I'm not into Sinatra but have put on LP's I've gotten in batches I've picked up and the LP is better than any CD I've heard. I'm sure there are exceptions but in my experience the LP recording of older music seems hard to beat.

  4. #129
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    I like Sinatra....how much you want for them?
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  5. #130
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    I've had the Music Hall 2.1 a few days now. I've enjoyed the limited vinyl I have.

    Nat King Cole unforgettable ...Phoebe Snow Phoebe Snow...Joe Williams The Exciting Joe Williams...William Ackerman Conferring with the Moon Ben Carter Ben Carter and His Orchestra and a compilation Album with many Jazz and Blues artist.

    The table is not a bad entry level table at all....I can tell already that in about 6 months to a year I will be getting a much better table. The sound seems to give me more weight and texture but because of the cart, I believe I am missing some of the finer detail. Cymbals are rolled off and the drums can hardly be heard at all. At times it is as if a veil is over the music. The bass is now starting to seem over powering on some songs. But vocals are spot on, and the sound stage is excellent. Joe Williams and Nat Cole voices sound as if they are there in the room but I would like more air and transparency. Would I benefit from an external preamp and a better cart? And if so, what preamp and cart would you suggest if any? From what I have been reading the MM cart Grado is what I want, but I dont want the hum...is there a way around the hum?
    Last edited by frenchmon; 05-20-2010 at 10:53 AM.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  6. #131
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    I have never been a Grado fan. I own a DJ100, it's not bad. How much are you looking to spend in total, for both items?

  7. #132
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    I have never been a Grado fan. I own a DJ100, it's not bad. How much are you looking to spend in total, for both items?
    I know about the Grado hum, aside from that...why dont you like them? I dont know about price right now...if I see it and can afford it, I purchase it or save up for it...if not I move on...and I am a bargain hunter. I dont think I want a Technics table, and I plain to purchase a new table and I like jrhymeammo's Idea of purchasing a use phono amp.


    I don't want a boring sound from a table and cart. I don't want a ear bleed sound. I want a sound that matches what I have ....not ear bleed...not laid back and boring, but a system that will draw you into the music with great detail but not analytical...good separation and air with emotion and passion when it needs to be.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  8. #133
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    There's a plethora of budget phono stages, all around the $100 mark new. Carts are the same story. I think you should try to jump entry level by buying used in the phono stage dept. As for a cart, Agon has used carts all the time but you must move quickly, quite often within the same hour they go up. Some people get spooked by a used cart but on Agon, a reputable audiophile will usually guard their cart with their life.


    Your call. I think you should start out with the Ortofon i am sending you, and this greatly discounted budget stage. Spend some time listening to this combo and then start to upgrade from there.

    http://www.needledoctor.com/Needle-D...category=35249

    If you want to step over it, try a brand you are familiar with...

    http://www.needledoctor.com/Musical-...category=35249

    If you feel this is too "entry" for you, let me know and I'll recommend something better.

  9. #134
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    There's a plethora of budget phono stages, all around the $100 mark new. Carts are the same story. I think you should try to jump entry level by buying used in the phono stage dept.
    Thanks for the advice PoppaC but I dont think I want to go budget on anything new under $500. I have a $1200 preamp with an onboard phono amp...so to purchase a budget phono @ $100 would be out the question.

    As for a cart, Agon has used carts all the time but you must move quickly, quite often within the same hour they go up. Some people get spooked by a used cart but on Agon, a reputable audiophile will usually guard their cart with their life.
    Thats would be me.


    Your call. I think you should start out with the Ortofon i am sending you, and this greatly discounted budget stage. Spend some time listening to this combo and then start to upgrade from there.

    http://www.needledoctor.com/Needle-D...category=35249

    If you want to step over it, try a brand you are familiar with...

    http://www.needledoctor.com/Musical-...category=35249

    If you feel this is too "entry" for you, let me know and I'll recommend something better.
    I am waiting on the Ortofon....let me know when you get it shipped out? I suspect the problem may not be my on board phono, but the Music Hall Tracker cart....Goldring Elan.

    frenchmon
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  10. #135
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    PoppaC aside from the hum which some say cant be heard through the speakers....what is it that you don't like about them? A friend has a VPI classic TT that has a hum as well but once the music starts...you cant hear it at all.

    frenchmon
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  11. #136
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    In the world of phono preamps, maybe worth a look are...PS Audio GCPH, Musical Surroundings Phonomena 2, Pro-Ject Tube Box SE II, Jolida JD-9A, EAR 834P, Whest Two. New prices on those range from $450 to $1500, but used is the way to go if you can find one you want.

    With a Grado Red on my MMF-5, I could hear the hum across the room.

  12. #137
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon
    From what I have been reading the MM cart Grado is what I want, but I dont want the hum...is there a way around the hum?
    It just MIGHT be possible to eliminate its hum by applying Stillpoints ERS sheet on its body. http://www.tweekgeek.com/_e/Stillpoi...nditioner_.htm

    The ERS sheet worked as advertised on my previous tonearm cables.
    When I tried Grado Prestige Green and Silver, I couldn't get the stock carbon fiber arm on a Pro-Ject table to correctly reproduce certain frequency. Listening to Piano was frustrating with Grado. I thought it had beautiful and neutral sound, but I just couldn't live with its shortcomings. Maybe its shortcomings are something you can live with...

  13. #138
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    noob...how well do you like the PS Audio GCPH? How would you describe the sound? It can be had new on close out at AudioAdvisor for $499 which is cheaper than I've seen on Audiogon.

    jrhymeammo...I like the Musical Fidelity X Ray CDP very much. I saw at on time you had a Musical Fidelity product...I think it was the X LPS V8. I thought I remember a right up you did on it some time ago. How did you like it and what sound characteristics did it have?

    I think I will forget about Grado Carts....the three of you have spoken in the negative about it...I trust you three's advice....so its forgotten.

    Sorry for all the questions guys...i'm just trying to find my way into vinyl.

    frenchmon
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  14. #139
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I like the GCPH pretty well. At its recent street prices it seems like a bargain. It has great adjustability, not to say that it's alone in that regard. It has a quiet background, smooth highs and sweet midrange that I can really appreciate since I'm big on vocals. I actually think it outclasses my turntable...maybe my Goldring 1042 does, too...but I'm sort of shopping for a turntable upgrade. It sounds good, but I know there's more out there.

    I have seen that opinions and reviews of the GCPH are not universally positive, but most criticisms are with the assumption of its $1k list price. However...I saw where a guy at AK said he had a Cambridge Audio 640P and a GCPH. He said he liked the 640P far better, which is an example of why I try to figure out who I can take seriously and who requires a grain of salt.

  15. #140
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Frenchie what is your preamp? If you have such a nice pre, the onboard circuit must spec nicely. I wouldn't bother with an external amp and focus your money into a cart.

    Like noob has pointed out, it's possible to over-do your phono stage. If you go too crazy, the stage will begin to reveal your tables weaknesses. I have experienced this with an audition of a pro-Ject Tube Box. It was simply too good for the combo I had at the time.

  16. #141
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Hey Frenchie,


    I donít want to guide you to think the Grado Prestige series are bad.
    They make great carts and I would love to try the Prestige Green again in my current step up.
    If I remember correctly, they have great depth in sound with great highs that are never harsh.
    I just didnít prefer their narrow sound at the time.

    I used to place my TT next to a TV, and whenever TV was on the cartridge would pickup hum.
    When turned off, hum never bothered me while music was playing.
    But itís been a while since Iíve listened to Grado, and the system setup and my preference in sound was completely different from what I have now.
    I probably had:
    B&W Signature 805 or Paradigm Monitor 5
    Paradigm PW-2200
    Rotel RSX-972
    Pro-Ject Xpression or Pioneer PL-1000
    Pro-Ject Tube Box


    I had the X-CAN V8.
    It was very boring, muffled, and thought it sucked life out of music.
    I took a look at its internal layout and components used, and compared it to X-CAN v.3.
    As far as I could tell they were identical, except for USB the USB option.
    But what do I know, tons of people love the V3, but I havenít heard much praise on the V8.



    I think this discuss can become as hostile as Digital vs Analog.

    Just remember phono-preamps amplify over 1000x of cartridgesí output.

  17. #142
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Thanks guys...

    noob that just goes to show us that its all subjective. What sounds good to one person sounds bad to others...

    PappaC I dont want to over do it that's for sure. I'm just trying to get the sound right. As of now after listening for a while, the bass is boomy and theres really no cymbals and the mids are funky....I suspect its the cart.

    jrhymeammo if the hum is there, I dont think I want to spend money and then take the time to send it back. You said the most dreadful word in discribing the X-Can V8...boring is what I hate...but a few of the guys at head-fi seem to love it. I would love to hear thoughts and reviews on the X-LPS. I thought you had it...but I see its the X-CAN V8.

    Thanks for the info guys..
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  18. #143
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon
    noob that just goes to show us that its all subjective. What sounds good to one person sounds bad to others...
    I agree to some extent, but...I also believe one person's opinion can be misguided. Sometimes better equipment really just sounds better, even if one person out of 10 or 100 doesn't hear it.

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    I agree to some extent, but...I also believe one person's opinion can be misguided. Sometimes better equipment really just sounds better, even if one person out of 10 or 100 doesn't hear it.
    Wow, Noob, you're starting to sound like one of those radical guys who claim cables make a difference.

  20. #145
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Wow, Noob, you're starting to sound like one of those radical guys who claim cables make a difference.
    I could see taking that as a compliment. Sometimes I learn a thing or two from those radicals.

  21. #146
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Not sure if you got my PM Frenchie, your cart is in the mail.

  22. #147
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Thanks PappaC...
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  23. #148
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Fellas....ima dofus!

    I was going through the my preamps manual and discovered there was a button for MC or MM...so I ran down to the 2 channel room and took a look....sure enough its was on MC...so I switched it over and man...such wonderful highs and mids...bass is not where I would like it to be but man....I can perhaps work on that....off to more listening.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  24. #149
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon
    Fellas....ima dofus!

    I was going through the my preamps manual and discovered there was a button for MC or MM...so I ran down to the 2 channel room and took a look....sure enough its was on MC...so I switched it over and man...such wonderful highs and mids...bass is not where I would like it to be but man....I can perhaps work on that....off to more listening.

    Hahahhahahahahhah....oh boy. Newbie indeed. Never even thought about that. I can only imagine the difference. Anyhow the Ortofon will have better bass. Enjoy and remember that the power button is for on and off.

  25. #150
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    I actually laughed out loud. Good stuff.
    Enjoy your tunes.

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