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  1. #1
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    May be a table finally.

    Thanks to MrP....I have a very good chance to buy a table just like this in mint condition for $125.00....the seller is suppose to send me more pictures tonight. I have not owned a table sense the early 80's and don't know anything about carts, or upgrading at all....Shoot...I have no records but my mom is on me about getting my dads old blues and r&b albums and 45's. So what would be the best cart to go with this, and what would I need to upgrade this thing? Or should I spend money upgrading? Its a direct drive. Would it be best to buy a external phono amp? The base is solid wood...I think its cherry ...I think I would put a cartridge on it no more that what I pay for the table....$125. or would that be to much? How would I tell what character a cartridge has? Are they warm, bright or what? Or should I spend a $125?



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    frenchmon
    Last edited by frenchmon; 05-06-2010 at 01:55 PM.
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  2. #2
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Welcome to the dark side. Fine table. Don't worry about how much a cart is worth, or any value formulas based on your table's worth.

    How much would you be willing to spend is the real question. Do you have a phono stage in your current chain, in your amp perhaps?

    Answer those questions and we'll get you set up. As far as sonic character, indeed different manufacturers lean on certain sounds. Ortofon, bright and forward....Shure, laid back and warm....on and on. What would you characterize your preference for CD sound to be? I see you as an Ortofon type.

  3. #3
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    If you're talking about the one on the St. Louis Craigslist, it doesn't appear to have the correct feet on it. If you find yourself trying to replace the feet with the originals, you could be paying quite a bit. The base isn't solid wood, not that it would benefit from that. It's veneered MDF.

    I wouldn't really know where to begin, with regard to cartridge recommendations, but I'd say $125 is an adequate budget. There's the Shure M97XE, Ortofon 2M Red, Audio-Technica AT95HE, Nagaoka MP-110, Grado Blue, or maybe stretch a tiny bit to the Denon DL-110.

    I've been thinking about your questions on upgrading. I don't see that there would be any point to talking about upgrades when you haven't heard the turntable as it is. I can't think of a single thing that I'd try to do to that turntable to upgrade it, unless maybe you want better cables and don't mind soldering.
    Last edited by 02audionoob; 05-06-2010 at 02:58 PM.

  4. #4
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Yes to noob's points. The other thing here Byron is that you are an experienced enthusiast, with good gear and an equally discerning ear. I'm not sure if a budget cart/stage will satisfy you. You should try to get to a dealer and have a listen, better yet, bring it home for auditioning.

    You will enjoy the stability of a direct drive, but some would argue at the lower end, they can have a "lifeless" sound. Cart will be essential to this point. The better Denon, Technics and Micro Seiki have better fidelity while employing direct drive.

    All subjective of course, and don't let me chase you away from direct drive. I have an SL-Q2 which I enjoy plenty.

  5. #5
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Welcome to the dark side. Fine table. Don't worry about how much a cart is worth, or any value formulas based on your table's worth.

    How much would you be willing to spend is the real question. Do you have a phono stage in your current chain, in your amp perhaps?

    Answer those questions and we'll get you set up. As far as sonic character, indeed different manufacturers lean on certain sounds. Ortofon, bright and forward....Shure, laid back and warm....on and on. What would you characterize your preference for CD sound to be? I see you as an Ortofon type.
    There is one in my preamp....and I sure dont want a sound that would bore me...I think you got a cart called "blue" something what sound does that have?
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  6. #6
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    If you're talking about the one on the St. Louis Craigslist, it doesn't appear to have the correct feet on it. If you find yourself trying to replace the feet with the originals, you could be paying quite a bit. The base isn't solid wood, not that it would benefit from that. It's veneered MDF.

    I wouldn't really know where to begin, with regard to cartridge recommendations, but I'd say $125 is an adequate budget. There's the Shure M97XE, Ortofon 2M Red, Audio-Technica AT95HE, Nagaoka MP-110, Grado Blue, or maybe stretch a tiny bit to the Denon DL-110.

    I've been thinking about your questions on upgrading. I don't see that there would be any point to talking about upgrades when you haven't heard the turntable as it is. I can't think of a single thing that I'd try to do to that turntable to upgrade it, unless maybe you want better cables and don't mind soldering.
    I wonder what gave you that idea...that it was STL Craigs list? IF its not the real legs...that may be a point to deal. I may want to try and change the cables...and as far as more upgrades....if I did purchase...I may have to take it to Peabodys to get a judge of sound. He has a Rega 2 table.

    frenchmon
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  7. #7
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Sumiko Blue Point? It's a high output moving coil (HOMC) and sounds amazing. It's leaps and bounds beyond a budget cart sonically.

    Mids are gorgeous, bass is full and smooth. I enjoy the highs and feel they are extended, at least to suit my taste. However, this is the common complaint about this cart, rolled off highs. Overall it's a thrill to listen to. Dynamically exciting.

    It's not the most forgiving with low quality or poorly recorded LPs. The tracking is superb however. This cart would be an amazing entry back into vinyl, and really showcase for you the HUGE developments that have been made in analog.

    There are now 3 versions out. The Sumiko Blue Point, SBP No.2 and the Sp.Ed Evos which Adam has BTW.

    Denon also make a couple of superb, highly regarded HOMC carts. The DL-110 and DL-160.

    The other advantage for you with a HOMC is that it's been designed to be played at 47k, the typical gain for a moving magnet phono stage. You don't need a step up transformer to pump the signal.

    I currently have a lightly used Ortofon OMB-10. You can try it out and see what you think. It would give you a good idea regarding the budget level. If you like it, you can have it. If not, or if you upgrade just send it back to me.

    A friend of mine got it with his table, but upgraded to the 2M Blue right away. I've probably put only 50 hours on it, enough to break it in.


  8. #8
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Yes to noob's points. The other thing here Byron is that you are an experienced enthusiast, with good gear and an equally discerning ear. I'm not sure if a budget cart/stage will satisfy you. You should try to get to a dealer and have a listen, better yet, bring it home for auditioning.

    You will enjoy the stability of a direct drive, but some would argue at the lower end, they can have a "lifeless" sound. Cart will be essential to this point. The better Denon, Technics and Micro Seiki have better fidelity while employing direct drive.

    All subjective of course, and don't let me chase you away from direct drive. I have an SL-Q2 which I enjoy plenty.
    Thanks for the advice.

    frenchmon
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  9. #9
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Sumiko Blue Point? It's a high output moving coil (HOMC) and sounds amazing. It's leaps and bounds beyond a budget cart sonically.

    Mids are gorgeous, bass is full and smooth. I enjoy the highs and feel they are extended, at least to suit my taste. However, this is the common complaint about this cart, rolled off highs. Overall it's a thrill to listen to. Dynamically exciting.

    It's not the most forgiving with low quality or poorly recorded LPs. The tracking is superb however. This cart would be an amazing entry back into vinyl, and really showcase for you the HUGE developments that have been made in analog.

    There are now 3 versions out. The Sumiko Blue Point, SBP No.2 and the Sp.Ed Evos which Adam has BTW.

    Denon also make a couple of superb, highly regarded HOMC carts. The DL-110 and DL-160.

    The other advantage for you with a HOMC is that it's been designed to be played at 47k, the typical gain for a moving magnet phono stage. You don't need a step up transformer to pump the signal.

    I currently have a lightly used Ortofon OMB-10. You can try it out and see what you think. It would give you a good idea regarding the budget level. If you like it, you can have it. If not, or if you upgrade just send it back to me.

    A friend of mine got it with his table, but upgraded to the 2M Blue right away. I've probably put only 50 hours on it, enough to break it in.

    WOW poppaC...your to kind and you make it sound so interesting....I hope I get the table....im still waiting to hear back from the girl who is selling.

    frenchmon
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  10. #10
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    Now that you've found a table to get your interest I hope it works out for you. If the seller don't have a stereo where you can hear the table at least plug it in and put the needle on a record. One time I was looking for a table for a friend and a guy wanted to sell this linear tracking table, I had him play an LP, the thing kept playing like a minute of a track and starting over. I doubt that style of Marantz would have an issue like that but it's good to see and better to hear it in action.

  11. #11
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Now that you've found a table to get your interest I hope it works out for you. If the seller don't have a stereo where you can hear the table at least plug it in and put the needle on a record. One time I was looking for a table for a friend and a guy wanted to sell this linear tracking table, I had him play an LP, the thing kept playing like a minute of a track and starting over. I doubt that style of Marantz would have an issue like that but it's good to see and better to hear it in action.
    I sent her an email asking for more pictures, and she replied she would send them today...I have yet to receive any pictures....I sent her another email about 5 minutes ago. Oh.....I did not find it....you did....and thank you sir.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  12. #12
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon
    I wonder what gave you that idea...that it was STL Craigs list? IF its not the real legs...that may be a point to deal. I may want to try and change the cables...and as far as more upgrades....if I did purchase...I may have to take it to Peabodys to get a judge of sound. He has a Rega 2 table.

    frenchmon
    Your location, listed on your profile.

  13. #13
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon
    WOW poppaC...your to kind and you make it sound so interesting....I hope I get the table....im still waiting to hear back from the girl who is selling.

    frenchmon
    Let me know and I'll pop the cart in the mail. Priority should only be 5 bucks or so.

    The other thing you should know is the stylus is upgradable on the OM series. The 10 is entry, but if you bought a 20 stylus things would really start poppin...

  14. #14
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    Your location, listed on your profile.
    It seems I can never find anything on that list, but Peabody always seems to find stuff....he then forwards me stuff he finds...and he finds good stuff.

    frenchmon
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  15. #15
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=poppachubby]Let me know and I'll pop the cart in the mail. Priority should only be 5 bucks or so.

    The other thing you should know is the stylus is upgradable on the OM series. The 10 is entry, but if you bought a 20 stylus things would really start poppin...[/QUOT}

    You Bet! As of now, 5.43am central time I have not heard from the girl who is selling. I've sent a few emails but no response.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  16. #16
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Byron if you want a table, and she doesn't respond, it's no biggy to find something equivelant to the Marantz.

    Like I said, give some thought to an overall budget, and match your expectations to it. Properly set up, entry level can be impressive and satisfying. I'm by no means into a high end analog set up, and I have a lovely, revealing sound from my table. Is Peabody's Rega P2 stock, or upgraded?

    If the love and care isn't put into it, it will just be a means to create noise and distortion.

    The better tables are designed to cope with the usual issues that plague them. You really just need to set up the cart and away you go...

    Have you seen the new Pro-Ject RPM 1.3 Genie? For $499 it would appear to compete beyond it's price. Lots of trickle down technology applied to it. I'm thinking hard about getting one. My local dealer will be getting a couple in soon, I can't wait to hear it.


  17. #17
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Check out the email I got this morning.

    "I think i might have it sold. he doesn't care if it works or not.
    I don't have any receiver or speakers here to test it.sorry
    i was just trying to sell my father's tt. he passed away
    and i am getting rid of things. i will keep your e-mail in case he
    doesn't want it."

    Looks like I lost out on that one...but I do have something else in the works.

    I think Peabody has a stock player but im not sure. I think he just recently replaced the cart....and I did listen to it...I was very impressed with it..I think I may just have to be forced to get a record player seeing my dad has all those blues albums at moms house seeing no one bothers with them. Robert Johnson...Elmore James....Sonn House, Howling Wolf, BB King...Albert King and much more.

    frenchmon
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  18. #18
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    C'mon Frenchie, what's the budget?!? In the meantime you should begin cleaning those LP's and making sure they all have inner and outer sleeves.

    Hey Frenchie, there is a classic question that analog types ask.

    Is a "vintage", decently made TT on par with a brand new entry level from today? I'm not talking about the plastic crap, but I am referring to mass market type of tables from the 80's say. There are mixed opinions regarding this.

    I will tell you that my Pioneer PL-516 is a super tough SOB. I recently decided to do everything in my power to make it great, or trash it. I was down to speed stability as my last thorn.

    The PL-516 has a strobe, unusual for belt drive, and an adjustable speed dial. Inside the TT, on the motor control board are two adjustable pots for each 33 and 45 speed adjustment. I cleaned the heck out of those and all speed related contacts. Would you believe the speed went through the roof? Imagine my joy. Using the strobe, I am enjoying near perfect stability. I bet it's spec'ing better than when it left the factory.

    Of course, it's not the greatest table. I have listened in depth to the Pro-Ject Debut's, and my Pioneer is on par with those for sure. You can get an older table and put the work in, to make it a competitive spinner.

  19. #19
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    C'mon Frenchie, what's the budget?!? In the meantime you should begin cleaning those LP's and making sure they all have inner and outer sleeves.

    Hey Frenchie, there is a classic question that analog types ask.

    Is a "vintage", decently made TT on par with a brand new entry level from today? I'm not talking about the plastic crap, but I am referring to mass market type of tables from the 80's say. There are mixed opinions regarding this.

    I will tell you that my Pioneer PL-516 is a super tough SOB. I recently decided to do everything in my power to make it great, or trash it. I was down to speed stability as my last thorn.

    The PL-516 has a strobe, unusual for belt drive, and an adjustable speed dial. Inside the TT, on the motor control board are two adjustable pots for each 33 and 45 speed adjustment. I cleaned the heck out of those and all speed related contacts. Would you believe the speed went through the roof? Imagine my joy. Using the strobe, I am enjoying near perfect stability. I bet it's spec'ing better than when it left the factory.

    Of course, it's not the greatest table. I have listened in depth to the Pro-Ject Debut's, and my Pioneer is on par with those for sure. You can get an older table and put the work in, to make it a competitive spinner.
    I am thinking hard about this....have been thinking hard about it for a while.

    http://www.independentaudiovideo.com...itemid=1000661

    But to me..some of those old vintage tables look so much stout....so beautiful like that Marantz 6300. Now that you put it that way poppaC, I think I may continue to hunt one down.

    O by the way...that girl emailed me and asked if I would pay $175 after she listed it at $125.....I cant do business with a person like that.

    frenchmon
    .
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  20. #20
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    The problem with the Marantz 6300 is that it's worth more than the seller was asking for it, so you'd have to race people for it. They're probably beating down her door to get to it. Even if it doesn't work, they could part it out on eBay for more than the asking price. If it does work, that's a bonus.

  21. #21
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    The problem with the Marantz 6300 is that it's worth more than the seller was asking for it, so you'd have to race people for it. They're probably beating down her door to get to it. Even if it doesn't work, they could part it out on eBay for more than the asking price. If it does work, that's a bonus.
    Well she tried to start a bidding war with me and the other guy....I was not about to get into that...It was'nt you was it???

    But the more I look at some of that vintage stuff the more I seem to like them. Its like looking at a bunch of old houses...some of them have character. With your knowledge of vintage tables what do you think of this one?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-GARRARD-...item3a5a8d19fd

    and this one?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TECHNICS...item255a72b7b3

    I really like the way this one looks.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Fisher-Stereo-Tu...item27b17dac25



    frenchmon
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  22. #22
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    If you want a Technics, I like this SL-1700MK2 much better...

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Technics-Direct-...item2eacea56b1

    I don't think I'd be impressed with that particular Garrard....and no...I haven't been shopping the St Louis Craigslist for turntables. I just found it like this...

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=

  23. #23
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    IF you don't mind me asking...why do you like the SL-1700MK2 better and why not the Garrard or the Fisher? Do they have known problems?

    Just joking by the way on you out bidding me...you have a very nice table already.

    frenchmon
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  24. #24
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    The SL-1700MK2 is better quality all around than the SL-23. It's a suspended direct drive with the same arm as the revered SL-1200MK2. It's even got quartz-locked speed. Some Technics fans like it better than the SL-1200MK2 because of the suspended design. The turntables marked MK2 are in a bit of a different league than the SL-23. Take a look at their original sale prices here:

    http://www.vintagetechnics.info/turntables.htm

    Those 1970's Japanese belt-drive tables with the S-shaped arm are not bad...I wouldn't dismiss them. I just think you can usually do better with the direct-drives from that era.

  25. #25
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    I would look for a used Technics SL-1500 series. From what I understand, they can be had for considerably cheaper than 12XX mk2+. You can also get a mounting plate for different arms from SoundSupports in UK. I just received couple of plate, but no arms...

    Whatever you decide to go with, I would defintely go with a used local TT and that's what you seem to want. Looks like you are getting some good advice so best of luck to ya.

    Have Fun,
    JRA

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