So did Isreal do the right thing?

[JoeE SP9]

Muslims in general want the end of Isreal. Along with that they want all Jews dead. Once they have accomplished that Christians and Catholics are next. Radical Muslims want a world like the Taliban had in Afghanistan. Remember, recently an Afhgani citizen was sentenced to death for converting to Christianity. Radical Muslims want a theocratic world government. One of the basic concepts of Islam is that church and state are the same. Radical Muslims are rapidly becomming the majority of Islamic followers.
Islam is the greatest threat to secular life that has ever existed.

[Florian]

Screw all religion. Seriously! I talked with a Christian mother of a friend and they all are so freaking closed in and limited in their mind by their religion. What man cannot explain is called a wonder and they use a symbol to describe it. Millions have died over religion, christians have raped and screwed little boys in their churches here in Europe. Offered a blessing on their sins when giving money etc.... Religion is the most single threat there. Well, let me reprhase. Public spreading of religion is a threat. And one thing is for sure.

God supposely gave us emotions, like love, hate, anger, happieness etc... If i ever reach Paradise where all is provided for me where there is only one emotion which is love and happieness then life is meaningless in the Paradise and i would rather take destruction of my soul

-Flo

[shokhead]

Screw all religion. Seriously! I talked with a Christian mother of a friend and they all are so freaking closed in and limited in their mind by their religion. What man cannot explain is called a wonder and they use a symbol to describe it. Millions have died over religion, christians have raped and screwed little boys in their churches here in Europe. Offered a blessing on their sins when giving money etc.... Religion is the most single threat there. Well, let me reprhase. Public spreading of religion is a threat. And one thing is for sure.

God supposely gave us emotions, like love, hate, anger, happieness etc... If i ever reach Paradise where all is provided for me where there is only one emotion which is love and happieness then life is meaningless in the Paradise and i would rather take destruction of my soul

-Flo

So one Christian person you talked to and dam them all? Sounds like one black guy or one Asian guy or one anything screws up and dam them all? What does that sound like?

[trollgirl]

Screw all religion. Seriously! I talked with a Christian mother of a friend and they all are so freaking closed in and limited in their mind by their religion. What man cannot explain is called a wonder and they use a symbol to describe it. Millions have died over religion, christians have raped and screwed little boys in their churches here in Europe. Offered a blessing on their sins when giving money etc.... Religion is the most single threat there. Well, let me reprhase. Public spreading of religion is a threat. And one thing is for sure.

God supposely gave us emotions, like love, hate, anger, happieness etc... If i ever reach Paradise where all is provided for me where there is only one emotion which is love and happieness then life is meaningless in the Paradise and i would rather take destruction of my soul

-Flo

...you should abandon Audio because some people own Bose or Soundesign gear. There is a vast gap between what I call Churchianity and true Christianity. I speak as a former athiest.

Laz

[Florian]

Hehe the typical defensive hold of a religious person. Seriously, i have Christian friends and i dont condem them all. I am sure Joe understand me....

[Mr Peabody]

I was watching some coverage on CNN today and they showed how Hezbalah rebuilt homes and schools after bombing and distruction. It also showed a mother and young daughter vowing alliance with Hezbalah because of the good they did for them. It's very difficult to stamp out an organization who is digging roots very deep into society. The "terrorists" are doing for the people what their government can't do. We've seen this type of thing in every country with organized crime or whatever. People are going to be loyal to those who take care of them. You can sometimes temporarily kill the tree but the roots produce a different one if roots are not completely dealt with.

I can't say if Isreal was right, but I do respect their action. The U.S. is in much of it's trouble because we talk sh*t. If you say something you'd better do it or else your respect is gone. In the words of Fred Durst, "don't write checks your *ss can't cash". That's why the U.N. is a worthless sham. They write resolutions that are rarely backed up. That's basically why a lot of this is going on. Those of you who have kids know that if there is no consequences for their actions they will run all over you and others they come into contact with. It's no different with dealing with anyone else.

Along the same lines, you also know that if you get your butt kicked for something you believe in, it still isn't going to change your mind.

I personally cannot remember the last fight I have been in but my philosophy is to avoid it if all possible but if it can't or I'm attacked, the other party will pay a heavy price for doing so. Or to put it another way I intend to inflict enough damage that you would never want to try it again. I would apply the same principle if I was the leader of a country.

[JoeE SP9]

Hehe the typical defensive hold of a religious person. Seriously, i have Christian friends and i dont condem them all. I am sure Joe understand me....

I do and I agree with you. I don't care what people believe. Just keep your beliefs to yourself. There are lots or people who don't believe the same or at all. Leave us to our beliefs or non-beliefs.

My problem with all religions is that you are required to belive without proof! This is what you call faith. It is what I call wishful thinking. Produce any proof at all and I will get on the same bus you are on.

[Mr Peabody]

The problem with religion is those who want to follow the religion are too lazy or have their own agenda, so they do not research and study the point of reference whether it's the Bible or some other writing. Those who are lazy take what is told to them for fact and are misled, those who have their own agenda take what is written and distort it to fit what they want to achieve or take things out of context. Just as an example, Catholics did not have access to the Bible until the recent century. It was read in Latin and they had to accept what was told to them. They have many practices that are not found in the Bible, as do many other "Christian" denominations. Most have a Creed they follow which was written by man. If you want to follow God, then follow what God has written. Those of you who denounce Faith totally should ponder why you believe in Socrates or Aristotile but not the Bible when there is actually more physical prove, as in validated historical writings, to prove the Bible than there is for the Greek scholars mentioned?

If the Isrealy soldiers were captured in Lebanon that puts things in a different perspective for me. That would seem more of a hazzard of the assignment more so than an agressive kidnapping.

[ForeverAutumn]

...you should abandon Audio because some people own Bose or Soundesign gear. There is a vast gap between what I call Churchianity and true Christianity. I speak as a former athiest.

Laz

I was going to stay out of the religious turn that this thread is taking but, Laz, you got me...I have to ask...

Former Athiest?

I've met lots of former religious people who are now atheists. I've met lots of former agnostics who have gone either way. But I think that you're the first former athiest that I've met (well, if you can call this meeting).

Do you mind if I ask what religion you practice now? And how you came to be a former athiest? As a lifetime Athiest (who was raised in a religious household), other people's religious beliefs actually fascinate me. If you'd prefer not to get into this discussion, feel free to ignore me. Or PM me if you'd rather have this discussion off-line.

[shokhead]

So dont talk about it but its ok to tell you not to talk about it. Abit one sided it seems. Good apples and bad apples.

[Geoffcin]

Of terrorist;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...277717,00.html

[JoeE SP9]

The problem with religion is those who want to follow the religion are too lazy or have their own agenda, so they do not research and study the point of reference whether it's the Bible or some other writing. Those who are lazy take what is told to them for fact and are misled, those who have their own agenda take what is written and distort it to fit what they want to achieve or take things out of context. Just as an example, Catholics did not have access to the Bible until the recent century. It was read in Latin and they had to accept what was told to them. They have many practices that are not found in the Bible, as do many other "Christian" denominations. Most have a Creed they follow which was written by man. If you want to follow God, then follow what God has written. Those of you who denounce Faith totally should ponder why you believe in Socrates or Aristotile but not the Bible when there is actually more physical prove, as in validated historical writings, to prove the Bible than there is for the Greek scholars mentioned?

If the Isrealy soldiers were captured in Lebanon that puts things in a different perspective for me. That would seem more of a hazzard of the assignment more so than an agressive kidnapping.

Belief in Socrates or Aristotle is not in any way faith based. Faith is the requirement to believe without proof.

[trollgirl]

I was going to stay out of the religious turn that this thread is taking but, Laz, you got me...I have to ask...

Former Athiest?

Do you mind if I ask what religion you practice now? And how you came to be a former athiest? As a lifetime Athiest (who was raised in a religious household), other people's religious beliefs actually fascinate me. If you'd prefer not to get into this discussion, feel free to ignore me. Or PM me if you'd rather have this discussion off-line.

FA: It's a very long story, and I may just PM you unless there is a chorus of people who also want to know...

Laz

[Mr Peabody]

Joe E, Socrates is not a religion but the point is, if you believe he existed and his writings are his, then why not believe in God or the Bible. We take much of history for granted, history books as true, but we were not there. I'm just trying to make the point that there are more original transcripts of books of the Bible than there are writings of Socrates. And why is it so hard to believe in God, when people believe so much more far fetched things. Faith actually can apply to anything you believe without seeing. When you jump out of a plane you have faith that parachute will open, or else you wouldn't jump...., I hope.

What people have a problem with when it comes to religion is that it involves changes in life, sacrafice and commitment, most of which make people turn and run. People can't even keep a diet which has to be a permanent change in eating habits. So what do most do, they make their own religion or find the one with the path of least resistance.

[GMichael]

The problem I have with organized religions is that most of them were written in a time when people believed in stories of sea monsters and dragons. That and that whole, "our religion is right and all the others are wrong" idea. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of good that comes from it. And I do believe that there is a God. But it's not all good. Religion was written by man. A man's idea of what he or she thinks is the truth. I was taught about many "myths" when in school. But what makes one person's religion another person's myth?

[Resident Loser]

FA: It's a very long story, and I may just PM you unless there is a chorus of people who also want to know...

Laz

...heck, I'm not a chorus but I do sing harmony..that's a jump IMO...particularly since most religions I'm aware of are faith-based...and atheism strikes me as the ne plus ultra of doubting-Thomasism...

jimHJJ(...but what do you think of the Velvet Underground?...)

[JoeE SP9]

Joe E, Socrates is not a religion but the point is, if you believe he existed and his writings are his, then why not believe in God or the Bible. We take much of history for granted, history books as true, but we were not there. I'm just trying to make the point that there are more original transcripts of books of the Bible than there are writings of Socrates. And why is it so hard to believe in God, when people believe so much more far fetched things. Faith actually can apply to anything you believe without seeing. When you jump out of a plane you have faith that parachute will open, or else you wouldn't jump...., I hope.

What people have a problem with when it comes to religion is that it involves changes in life, sacrafice and commitment, most of which make people turn and run. People can't even keep a diet which has to be a permanent change in eating habits. So what do most do, they make their own religion or find the one with the path of least resistance.

If parachutists really had faith they would only have one chute. When I jumped out of airplanes while in the military I always had a backup chute.
I am reminded of something Bertrand Russell (athiest)once said. He was asked if he died and ended up standing before the throne of God and was asked by God "Why didn't you believe in me?" His response was "I would say to God you should have given better evidence". So, it comes down to faith ie: Belief without proof. I need proof.
I do not now nor have I ever believed that the Bible is the direct word of God. If it is then "God" is mean spirited capricious and intolerant. The biblical version of creation is simply not believable and the Bible just gets more unbelievable from there. Just consider, Noah and a breeding pair of every animal in a relatively small boat?
It is my observation that those who benefit the most from any organized religion are the priests ministers and assorted shamen who always live a cushier more comfortable life than their flocks.

[Mr Peabody]

This could really go on forever, but the Bible is much more believeable than the theory of evolution.

Russell reminds me of the rich man in Luke who found himself in Haites. Abraham told the rich man that if his family didn't believe Moses and the prophets, they won't believe one from the dead. Christ done many signs and wonders, as well as his apostles after His ascention into Heaven. Those were done so that those who saw would believe. At the time the Church was established the apostles could not just walk into town and hand out Bibles. They had help from the Holy Spirit who gave them many tools, ready recall, imparting of understanding by laying on of hands, speaking in many languages etc. Now that the Word has been put into print there is no need for these "tools". The gifts of the Holy Spirit went away when the apostles died. A study of the Bible will show that the apostles were the only ones who could pass on these gifts.

The arc was not relatively small and took many years to build. I'd have to check to get the exact dimensions but I think it was about 300 yards long and had more than on level.

There is so much proof around if you just look. Physics cannot explain how a Bee flies.

Jesus was poor as well. The only collection done in the New Testament church had a given purpose. Old Testament tithing was done to support the Levites who were the only ones who could be priests. It was NOT money for the most part, tithing was whatever your trade was, 10% of your crop, herd, eggs etc.

Those who cause confusion and pervert the Gospel are worse than any Pagan or unbeliever. One should study the New Testament Church that Christ established. You will see it is a far cry from the denominationalism that exists today. Just for instance, you will not see anyone instructed to celebrate Christmas or Easter. These are holidays established by the Roman ruler Contantine to promote growth in the church. He rolled many Pagan religions into biblical events to draw the Pagans in to convert. This type of thing is what has been going on and still goes on. Who are we to add to what God wants. We are instructed NOT to add to or take away from God's word. It is a fact in history that the original church DID NOT use instumental music. It wasn't until later centuries that instuments were introduced. We are told how to worship in the New Testament, I didn't see anyone play any instrument.

The New Testament fulfills so many prophecies from the Old that it would be impossible to be fabricated by man. The Old Testament way of doing things was nailed to the cross with Christ and we are to follow the New Testament today. It's still very relevant for our learning but it's the New Testament (Covenant) that instructs us in our lives and worship today.

I will not carry this on here. If I sparked any curiousity you can email me. I prefer email, PM is a pain.

[bobsticks]

..

jimHJJ(...but what do you think of the Velvet Underground?...)

Now that is laugh out loud funny...

[noddin0ff]

I don't believe in bees.

[GMichael]

I don't believe in bees.

I've talked with the queen bee. They don't believe in you either.

[PAT.P]

Who gives a F**K ! Im getting fed-up with the Middle East and we on the other side of the world pay for it at the pump.We should close our eyes and let them killed themself and their nation.We dont need them .Honestly I really think these Nation dont want to live in peace,fighting is their daily entertainment.

[kexodusc]

Physics cannot explain how a Bee flies.

Can now.
Turns out it's more like a helicoptor and less like a plane.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,181212,00.html

I'm sure science can be used to explain all confirmed observations if given enough time. I'm also sure that only God could create something so complex and amazing as the universe we inhabit.
And I'd like to think God didn't put everyone on the planet to kill each other in His name.
That's mankind's doing.

[daviethek]

[QUOTE=Mr Peabody]I was watching some coverage on CNN today and they showed how Hezbalah rebuilt homes and schools after bombing and distruction. It also showed a mother and young daughter vowing alliance with Hezbalah because of the good they did for them. It's very difficult to stamp out an organization who is digging roots very deep into society.

They are extremely organized and there are many agendas at work here. Religious fanaticism is only the fuel , the motivator for the masses. The final objective is economic equality. I've looked at this thing from many different perspectives and I am a simple guy and I keep coming back to money angle. The "Islamic" nations, Iran, Syria,Lebanon, Pakistan, are essentially undeveloped compared to the G-8. I can't help believe that death in the name of religion is nothing more than a "method" for the theocracies to muscle their way into the boardroom without paying any dues. They want a piece of the action in the world economy and see themselves as permanent slave states without it. Reeking havoc and waving the sword is much more fun than assembling Chevy Cobalts in Teheran. They think they can level the playing field with nuclear weapons. The Europeans are close at hand and reluctant to oppose them presently, with the exception of the Brits, who do stick their necks out for us.

[noddin0ff]

Yeah, the whole Christian world would've been better off if Elvis had never done that hip gyration thing-- a direct result of him being susceptible to, and heavily influenced by, gospel music. He seduced us all and now we’ve all lost our way and have to pay more for gas because the non-Christians are bombing themselves senseless in the Middle East. It’s all good though. More chaos means more lawlessness. More lawlessness means more piracy. And obviously, as the scriptures tell us, more piracy means more pirates ergo less global warming!

Anyhoo, with regards to

Who gives a F**K ! Im getting fed-up with the Middle East and we on the other side of the world pay for it at the pump.We should close our eyes and let them killed themself and their nation.We dont need them .Honestly I really think these Nation dont want to live in peace,fighting is their daily entertainment.

.

Probably the least insane comment made for a while in this thread since Flo jumped in. But really, common. Our gas dollars fund these regimes. If we’d been paying more attention to where our money was going and tried to make it buy infrastructures, schools, hospitals, roads, information flow…instead of lining the pockets of authoritarian rulers to contain nations aligned with governments we don’t like, you wouldn’t have a reason to fed up. But, whatever, drive on.

edit: relevant link added