So did Isreal do the right thing?

[kexodusc]

Kex, you should listen to yourself sometimes. I am taken aback at the quickness with which you jump all over me. First, I make contributions other than "rants". You can find me especially over at the Analog forum from time-to-time, and I got back to this thread after a discreet PM to another member on serious financial matters. I hope it helps him. Second, "...political conspiracy, anti-US rhetoric..." may be how you see it, but for me, it is a matter of reading a lot from a variety of sources and viewpoints, and connecting the dots. Unlike most of my countrymen, I don't see why any other country should kowtow to the American view of things. I love my country, but at the same time, I realise that we are going to have to pay for our crimes and mistakes. Others think we can do no wrong or make a mistake. As for the handle, thing, it came about because at some point I could no longer log on as "Lazarus Short" anymore, and had to fall back on my daughter's moniker. Don't read a CONSPIRACY into it, dude! I take full credit for my comments, that's why I sign off as Laz. Further, if you must know, I wrote the post in question feeling very sad, and we will presently see if I am correct.

BTW, you are spot on about the UK. The whole present sad situation in the Middle East can be easily laid at their door.

Laz [a nice guy, after all]

You're right, I did come across to harsh. My apologies...you ahve every right to post here that I do....Still...I'm struggling to see how the Jews were responsible for the war in Iraq...

[trollgirl]

You're right, I did come across to harsh. My apologies...you ahve every right to post here that I do....Still...I'm struggling to see how the Jews were responsible for the war in Iraq...

Apology accepted! As for the war in Iraq, the causes are often complex, and it is always helpful to look deeply at the situation, and see who benefits from events.

Laz

[ForeverAutumn]

You're right, I did come across to harsh. My apologies...you ahve every right to post here that I do....Still...I'm struggling to see how the Jews were responsible for the war in Iraq...

Could we refer to "the Jews" as "the Isreali's"? That's like referring to Al Quada as "the Muslims". I'm not comparing the Isreali's to Al Quada, I'm just saying that there are Jews all over the world who have nothing to do with the Middle East conflict. Thanks.

[kexodusc]

Could we refer to "the Jews" as "the Isreali's"? That's like referring to Al Quada as "the Muslims". I'm not comparing the Isreali's to Al Quada, I'm just saying that there are Jews all over the world who have nothing to do with the Middle East conflict. Thanks.

Sure, FA, I appreciate the PC sensitivity - fair point.

Though I would respectfully suggest it's more like calling Netherlanders the Dutch than
referring to Al Quada as "the Muslims".
I've picked that up from spending so much time with two people of Jewish faith I work with, over the last 2 years I've just adopted their lingo for Israelis...Not the first time I've been taken to task on it either ...
Anyway, to them there is no distinction, they use the two words interchangeably, when I asked why, the answer they gave me included a lot of history, Israel's Law of Return, and more I'm sure I can't recall. As it's been simplified to me all Jews are welcomed Israeli's (or can be if they visit Israel) but not vice-versa, so it's common to use the term "Jew" as a nationalistic descriptor rather than only a reference to religious belief. Bad habbit I've adopted, I guess. Oddly enough it seems to bother Christians more than anyone else. No offence intended. Sincere apologies..

[ForeverAutumn]

Sure, FA, I appreciate the PC sensitivity - fair point.

Though I would respectfully suggest it's more like calling Netherlanders the Dutch than
referring to Al Quada as "the Muslims".
I've picked that up from spending so much time with two people of Jewish faith I work with, over the last 2 years I've just adopted their lingo for Israelis...Not the first time I've been taken to task on it either ...
Anyway, to them there is no distinction, they use the two words interchangeably, when I asked why, the answer they gave me included a lot of history, Israel's Law of Return, and more I'm sure I can't recall. As it's been simplified to me all Jews are welcomed Israeli's (or can be if they visit Israel) but not vice-versa, so it's common to use the term "Jew" as a nationalistic descriptor rather than only a reference to religious belief. Bad habbit I've adopted, I guess. Oddly enough it seems to bother Christians more than anyone else. No offence intended. Sincere apologies..

I see where you're coming from now and there is no apology necessary. I think that I know you well enough by now (as much as you can "know" someone from an internet board) to know that you didn't mean to offend. And, actually, I wasn't offended at all. As you say, it's more a PC thing...I like to avoid the broader stereotypes whenever I can. I have a lot of Jewish friends who would not consider themselves within the context of this discussion and who think that Isreali politics are quite radical. On the other hand I've also met Jews who think along the same lines as your co-workers...Jews are Isreali's by birthright (or something along those lines).

But we digress...

[kexodusc]

I see where you're coming from now and there is no apology necessary. I think that I know you well enough by now (as much as you can "know" someone from an internet board) to know that you didn't mean to offend. And, actually, I wasn't offended at all. As you say, it's more a PC thing...I like to avoid the broader stereotypes whenever I can. I have a lot of Jewish friends who would not consider themselves within the context of this discussion and who think that Isreali politics are quite radical. On the other hand I've also met Jews who think along the same lines as your co-workers...Jews are Isreali's by birthright (or something along those lines).

But we digress...

Actually, in response to yours and RL's comments about Israeli support - the few I've spoken with don't support the "measured response" (as a certain Canadian politician called it), but also admit to being so far detached from the last few decades of high-tensions that they aren't the ones to ask.

I have to admit, if I was Israel, having gone through what its people have gone through, I'd probably react every bit as strongly, if not moreso out of fear of history repeating itself. There's a point where a people have been attacked and persecuted so many times that any act of aggression against them triggers an explosive response, maybe they're overly paranoid now. (and I'm not suggesting Israel didn't cast the first stone or start its fair share - who alive seriously knows?). It's unfortunate, because I'm sure the other side feels largely the same way - hence "escalation", as the media refers to it.

I don't think it helps that Hezbollah's political platform calls for "the destruction of Israel" and that Iran's leader stated its policy was to "wipe Israel off the map". If your neighbours said that to you, you'd probably be a bit trigger happy too.

I think Dream Theater wrote a song about all this....

[Resident Loser]

...the history lesson more times than I care to...France, UK, most of Europe laid the foundations for the current state of affairs, as did the Zionists and the UN...and we, the US, are not without some blame, tacit participation is still participation, regardless of how well intentioned.

Re: Jews/Israeli's...most of the interviews I've seen with non-Israeli Jews show "full" support for the current actions...my question: If you support the activities WTF are you doing here? Why aren't you over there supporting them? And that pretty much goes for all nationalities who support their homeland/motherland/fatherland with that mi encanto-type of covert nationalism...

jimHJJ(..."...no allegiance to any foreign prince or potentate..."...)