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  1. #1
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    Post Petition to destroy the Iranian nuclear facilities

    While you are reading this, the Iranian reactor produces enriched bomb-grade uranium. Terrorists can deliver that bomb to your city, and it can kill you and your children. Yet the government does nothing.

    Do we demand violence? Not in any common sense. Similarly, police use force to arrest criminals in order to stop violence.

    But Iran is not a criminal? Wrong. Iran has proven malicious intent. Iran, under the current regime, conducted many terrorist bombings in the West, and sponsors deadly terrorists. Iranian leaders repeatedly called for fight against the United States and annihilation of Israel.

    Perhaps Iran needs nuclear weapons for self-defense? No. Iran already bullies the Middle East with its huge conventional army. No country threatens Iran.

    Since the eighth-century jihad and the Ottoman army at the gates of Vienna, the West has never been exposed to such threat. Iranís several nuclear bombs can inflict more damage on America than the World War II. Never before the Islamic fundamentalists who hate the West and dream of attacking it had military might of apocalyptic dimensions. Are you crazy to doubt they will use the bomb?

    We call on the United States: Do not hesitate. Protect your people. Protect your allies. Destroy the Iranian reactor!

    To sign the petition, visit http://terrorismisrael.com/nuclear_iran.htm

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheila_Israel
    No country threatens Iran.
    The above is the only part of your post I care to deal with directly, as the rest is pure propaganda. The quote is a LIE! Do you not know that even now, the United States and Jewish-Occupied Palestine are preparing to nuke Iran?? Ask yourself, what is better, that Iran MIGHT nuke the West, or that the West certainly WILL nuke Iran? The whole world is already too contaminated with depleted uranium, and the leaders only want to add to it. There is just no reason for Iran to be anyone's enemy, but some folks have an inner craving to have one, for their own sick purposes, profit, or whatever. Will the entire world go down to extinction because of one small mideast nation's paranoia? You can not fight or wage war for peace, you must practice peace for peace. Further, you can not set up the Kingdom with the arm of flesh - every nation which has tried has gone down into the dust bin of history.

    Laz

  3. #3
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trollgirl
    The above is the only part of your post I care to deal with directly, as the rest is pure propaganda. The quote is a LIE! Do you not know that even now, the United States and Jewish-Occupied Palestine are preparing to nuke Iran?? Ask yourself, what is better, that Iran MIGHT nuke the West, or that the West certainly WILL nuke Iran? The whole world is already too contaminated with depleted uranium, and the leaders only want to add to it. There is just no reason for Iran to be anyone's enemy, but some folks have an inner craving to have one, for their own sick purposes, profit, or whatever. Will the entire world go down to extinction because of one small mideast nation's paranoia? You can not fight or wage war for peace, you must practice peace for peace. Further, you can not set up the Kingdom with the arm of flesh - every nation which has tried has gone down into the dust bin of history.

    Laz
    When would you nuke Iran? Before or after Iran nukes Israel?
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  4. #4
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    "There is no reason for Iran to be anyones enemy"

    Laz, I have to respectfully disagree with your conclusions. Many in the younger generations are being indoctrinated into the radical fundamentalist fervor. Perhaps had the behavior of Europe and the US been different this would not be so, but it is.

    Despite what the ultra-liberal intelligensia would have one believe, we cannot view Iran as our chippy little Middle Eastern neighbor whose culture it's important to be tolerant of. This cannot be viewed through pluralist lenses as it is the declared antithesis of pluralism.
    The ruling elite classes in virtually every middle eastern country are fostering hatred, if for no other reason than to deflect critical eyes from the social inequities that their kingdoms promote.

    I do not support a pre-emptive nuclear strike, but I would without equivocation support whatever steps necessary to prevent nuclear proliferation (anywhere but certainly in Iran).
    To suggest that Iran would or could exist in a state of perpetual detente with the West is a dangerous folly.
    Last edited by bobsticks; 08-27-2006 at 07:26 PM.
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  5. #5
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    I believe that sooner or later Iran will push Israel too far. Israel will reply with some of the nukes they and the South Africans have been working on. There are too many Arabs that hate Israel for them to continue using conventional warfare when the Muslims all get together. They will be able to cease fighting each other only long enough to attack Israel en masse. After Israel nukes them back to the stone age the world will still have North Korea to deal with. Thats our problem and the Israeli's can't help us there.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    The ruling elite classes in virtually every middle eastern country are fostering hatred, if for no other reason than to deflect critical eyes from the social inequities that their kingdoms promote.

    I do not support a pre-emptive nuclear strike, but I would without equivocation support whatever steps necessary to prevent nuclear proliferation.
    Two questions, and I hope my deletions do not leave what you said out of context:

    Does not the West, thru the War on Terror, also foster hatred, and for the same reason, to deflect critical eyes from "social inequities" or shall I call it failed domestic policy??

    If you would support whatever steps necessary, etc, would that also include a pre-emptive nuclear strike, nuclear war being the very thing non-proleferation is supposedly aimed at preventing??

    How many nuclear wars have we had in modern times? WW II, Gulf War I, Kosovo, Gulf War II. Only one with thermonuclear blasts, but the other three have all the rest. Nuclear proliferation can no longer be prevented, and the methods being used will be disaster for us all...

    Laz

  7. #7
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Threats and other realities

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheila_Israel
    ...
    No country threatens Iran.
    ...
    Even that part is untrue. Certainly both the U.S. and Israel have contingency plans to attack Iran. Granted, these plans are a response to perceived threats from Iran, but perceived threats, especially on the part of the U.S. are not necessarily valid, to wit, Iraq's WMD.

    From Iran's perspective the threat of U.S. invasion must be seen as very valid, and as a sovereign nation, they have a right to self-defence. For better or worse, nuclear capability is a great deterrent.

    Peace in the middle east -- hence likely the rest of the world -- will depend on settlements between Israel and its neighbours. And settlements will mean deep concessions from Israel. The U.S. and certain other western countries need to stop being uncritical supporters of Israel -- and that's an understatement if ever there was one.

  8. #8
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Good morning gentlemen,

    Laz,
    I don't think that the primary reason for the War on Terror is to deflect attention from failed domestic policy. I believe it exists because militant factions supported by militant states perpetrated a massive attack on our homeland. I believe it exists because militant leaders of these factions have avowed to continue such attacks. Finally, I believe it existed at one point in time because Saadaam Hussien was a cruel and toturous despot who went so so far as to drop phosgene gas on his own citizens not because they posed some real separatist or irredentist threat, but because they were ethnically different.

    I am not naive enough to believe that there are less than a few politicians that are pleased with the unintended diversion of attention away from the economy, but this is a side-effect not a causal condition.

    I do not support a pre-emptive nuclear strike. I should have inserted the word "other" into that sentence and I apologize for the lack of clarity. A PNS would undoubtedly bring about far too much collateral damage and,in doing so, galvanize the efforts and wills of militants across the globe. I contend that the proper course of action would be to properly fund and arm our intelligence community. We are woefully ill-prepared in even the most basic areas of cryptography and linguistics. To avoid the necessity for a full scale ground assault, and for the success of surgical air strikes and other stealth campaigns, we must focus on our intelligence gathering apparatus.

    Bill,
    I agree that we must cease to be uncritical supporters of Israel. That is not to say that we end relations, but I concur that they must be held accountable for their actions, for too long they have been co-equal provocateurs.

    Thanks you both for the respectful exchange of ideas...

    Peace,
    M
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  9. #9
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Until 1962...

    ...when the US sold Hawk missles to Israel, in order to counter the Cold War threat of the USSRs support for Egypt, our State department considered Israel a zionist state...It was OK when Begin and Dyan were killing Brits because they were "freedom fighters"..."Never again" seems to be a one-way street...They are the problem (or at least the biggest part) and I for one say to he!! with 'em...

    jimHJJ(...period...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  10. #10
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    Hear, hear!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...when the US sold Hawk missles to Israel, in order to counter the Cold War threat of the USSRs support for Egypt, our State department considered Israel a zionist state...It was OK when Begin and Dyan were killing Brits because they were "freedom fighters"..."Never again" seems to be a one-way street...They are the problem (or at least the biggest part) and I for one say to he!! with 'em...

    jimHJJ(...period...)
    Yeah, and another thing...

    Whose bright idea was it to stick'em all in the ever-coveted-by-all, multi-Holy land of Israel, surrounded by religious states on all sides, and to fund and supply them with decades of military resources, anyway?!?...them guys should be ah-givin' they' heads a shake...

    kex(whoever they are)

  11. #11
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Kex and Loser are both incorrect in blaming Israel. The Israeli's are only trying to exist. An existence that Muslims have vowed to end. Do you really want Muslims exclusively in charge of the Middle East. Don't you remember what those wackos did in Afghanistan? For your information that is the goal of radical Islam. How about a whole world like Islam? That is what they want. Check the link below. Their own women are starting to wake up.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Kex and Loser are both incorrect in blaming Israel. The Israeli's are only trying to exist. An existence that Muslims have vowed to end. Do you really want Muslims exclusively in charge of the Middle East. Don't you remember what those wackos did in Afghanistan? For your information that is the goal of radical Islam. How about a whole world like Islam? That is what they want. Check the link below. Their own women are starting to wake up.

    http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.a...050wmv&ak=null
    Holy History Lesson, Batman!

    You seem to have left out the part about the zionist movement/western powers unilaterally, with self-proclaimed authority, taking the most sacred land of Islam from its owners without permission, or agreement and giving it to the Israelis. Uhh...Oooops!!!! Gee we didn't think it'd be such a big deal.

    This is every bit as offensive as kidnapping your daughter would be. This is synnonymous with denying Islam it's sovereign right to existance. Geez, when Saddam tried the same thing we bombed him back to the stone age. Morality by convenience?

    Nobody's solely blaming Israel here, but too many are solely blaming the Muslim states. ...

  13. #13
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    I don't think this post should be here. This person is obviously not here to discuss audio at all, but to troll about this issue. I find that very annoying. You guys are making a discussion out of it, so I suppose it's ok.. Your call on guys like this..

  14. #14
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    I think it's amazing that people here can calmly discuss such a touchy issue without fighting. I am enjoying this read.
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  15. #15
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    I think it's amazing that people here can calmly discuss such a touchy issue without fighting. I am enjoying this read.
    What a jerk.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericl
    I don't think this post should be here. This person is obviously not here to discuss audio at all, but to troll about this issue. I find that very annoying. You guys are making a discussion out of it, so I suppose it's ok.. Your call on guys like this..
    I didn't respond to the original troll, but I'd like to think we jacked his thread
    He was probably a soft-dome luvin, SET fan anyway...

    @#&% him!

  17. #17
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Holy History Lesson, Batman!

    You seem to have left out the part about the zionist movement/western powers unilaterally, with self-proclaimed authority, taking the most sacred land of Islam from its owners without permission, or agreement and giving it to the Israelis. Uhh...Oooops!!!! Gee we didn't think it'd be such a big deal.

    This is every bit as offensive as kidnapping your daughter would be. This is synnonymous with denying Islam it's sovereign right to existance. Geez, when Saddam tried the same thing we bombed him back to the stone age. Morality by convenience?

    Nobody's solely blaming Israel here, but too many are solely blaming the Muslim states. ...
    Using the term "zionist movement" plays right into the hands of Islamic radicals. Remember, if they can get rid of Isreal the rest of the Christian secular world is their target.
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  18. #18
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Absolutely right, Eric

    Quote Originally Posted by ericl
    I don't think this post should be here. This person is obviously not here to discuss audio at all, but to troll about this issue. I find that very annoying. You guys are making a discussion out of it, so I suppose it's ok.. Your call on guys like this..
    Then again I personally rarely back away from a debate on politics or religion.

  19. #19
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noddin0ff
    What a jerk.
    Like a dart to my heart.

    Hopefully the good people who have jacked this thread will continue their intelligent conversation.
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  20. #20
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    peace or not

    We should be working just as hard for peace and normalization of relations. We should have 10 anti- Algezera satellite networks up and running with shows like little house on the desert.

    If just 10% of our outlay for war ( 50 billion) could be used for anti terror propaganda, it would be the largest public relations campaign in history. We should be trying to influence the great majority of Iranians , Syrians and the like about the economic benefits of joining the rest of the organized world. They need to understand that they don't need to like us to profit from and with us. ( China).

    The Islamic radical leaders are educated but their followers are pathetically ignorant. They are being controlled by narrowly focused information and the rest of the world is allowing it to happen without offering a suitable counter-mythology. I thought this was the stuff we were good at.

  21. #21
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Kexo, you had me until "This is synonymous with denying Islam it's sovereign right to existence ", which in point of fact, it is not.

    I agree that the entire concept of Israel was ill conceived, but they are here now and have been here for some time. No one that is doing the dying right now is old enough to even remember a time when this was not so. The hate that is being passed through generations on both sides hasn't abated. That alone necessitates the prevention of a nuclear Iran.
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  22. #22
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    Kexo, you had me until "This is synonymous with denying Islam it's sovereign right to existence ", which in point of fact, it is not.
    I'm sorry, how is the theft of sovereign land by foreign governments anything but the greatest disregard for their right to exist?
    From your perspective maybe, but that act of aggression against Islam's holiest of sacred ground was not dismissed as readily by those nations. Much like the comic strip debacle earlier this year, certain acts are interpreted quite differently by the other side...our failure to learn that lesson over the last two centuries is greatly responsible for the escalation of events....of course blind hate and fanaticism on side opposite hasn't helped either...

  23. #23
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    What everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten is that as usual the Muslims started the present crisis by lofting missiles into Israel. I say Muslims because Hezbollah has the tacit approval of Muslims in general and Lebanese Muslims in particular. Once you add the monetary support Iran provides for Muslim hate groups you leave Israel with few choices.

    BTW Why is it OK for them to denigrate our symbols, burn our flag and threaten our way of life with destruction and we are supposed to take it without protest.
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  24. #24
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    I'm sorry, how is the theft of sovereign land by foreign governments anything but the greatest disregard for their right to exist?
    From your perspective maybe, but that act of aggression against Islam's holiest of sacred ground was not dismissed as readily by those nations. Much like the comic strip debacle earlier this year, certain acts are interpreted quite differently by the other side...our failure to learn that lesson over the last two centuries is greatly responsible for the escalation of events....of course blind hate and fanaticism on side opposite hasn't helped either...
    Come on! Islam's holiest of sacred ground is in Saudi Arabia (it's called Mecca) and you as a non-Muslim can't go there. What do you have against Israel? They don't have designs and ideas of turning the rest of the world into a giant Israel. Muslims want to turn the world into a giant Afghanistan.
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  25. #25
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Come on! Islam's holiest of sacred ground is in Saudi Arabia (it's called Mecca) and you as a non-Muslim can't go there. What do you have against Israel? They don't have designs and ideas of turning the rest of the world into a giant Israel. Muslims want to turn the world into a giant Afghanistan.
    I've got less against Israel than Iran, but to deny that Israel is situated in a very contentious location is ridiculous...Muslims don't want to turn the world into a big afghanistan - do you even know any muslims?

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