Petition to destroy the Iranian nuclear facilities

[GMichael]

What a jerk.

Like a dart to my heart.

Hopefully the good people who have jacked this thread will continue their intelligent conversation.

[bobsticks]

Kexo, you had me until "This is synonymous with denying Islam it's sovereign right to existence ", which in point of fact, it is not.

I agree that the entire concept of Israel was ill conceived, but they are here now and have been here for some time. No one that is doing the dying right now is old enough to even remember a time when this was not so. The hate that is being passed through generations on both sides hasn't abated. That alone necessitates the prevention of a nuclear Iran.

[kexodusc]

Kexo, you had me until "This is synonymous with denying Islam it's sovereign right to existence ", which in point of fact, it is not.

I'm sorry, how is the theft of sovereign land by foreign governments anything but the greatest disregard for their right to exist?
From your perspective maybe, but that act of aggression against Islam's holiest of sacred ground was not dismissed as readily by those nations. Much like the comic strip debacle earlier this year, certain acts are interpreted quite differently by the other side...our failure to learn that lesson over the last two centuries is greatly responsible for the escalation of events....of course blind hate and fanaticism on side opposite hasn't helped either...

[JoeE SP9]

I'm sorry, how is the theft of sovereign land by foreign governments anything but the greatest disregard for their right to exist?
From your perspective maybe, but that act of aggression against Islam's holiest of sacred ground was not dismissed as readily by those nations. Much like the comic strip debacle earlier this year, certain acts are interpreted quite differently by the other side...our failure to learn that lesson over the last two centuries is greatly responsible for the escalation of events....of course blind hate and fanaticism on side opposite hasn't helped either...

Come on! Islam's holiest of sacred ground is in Saudi Arabia (it's called Mecca) and you as a non-Muslim can't go there. What do you have against Israel? They don't have designs and ideas of turning the rest of the world into a giant Israel. Muslims want to turn the world into a giant Afghanistan.

[kexodusc]

Come on! Islam's holiest of sacred ground is in Saudi Arabia (it's called Mecca) and you as a non-Muslim can't go there. What do you have against Israel? They don't have designs and ideas of turning the rest of the world into a giant Israel. Muslims want to turn the world into a giant Afghanistan.

I've got less against Israel than Iran, but to deny that Israel is situated in a very contentious location is ridiculous...Muslims don't want to turn the world into a big afghanistan - do you even know any muslims?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I've got less against Israel than Iran, but to deny that Israel is situated in a very contentious location is ridiculous...Muslims don't want to turn the world into a big afghanistan - do you even know any muslims?

Maybe he should have stated "radical muslims" instead of just plain muslims. However, the radical voice seems to be the loudest voice as the more moderate muslims have remaind mum about renoucing this radical perspective. This to me is tacit support and is very unsettling at the least.

If you dislike Israel, then you probably dislike America. We basically control their every move, and it seems that when our government asks them to do things, they tend to do it, if not grudgingly. My problem is not Israel directly, its Israel listening to George Bush that worries me.

[Feanor]

Maybe he should have stated "radical muslims" instead of just plain muslims. However, the radical voice seems to be the loudest voice as the more moderate muslims have remaind mum about renoucing this radical perspective. This to me is tacit support and is very unsettling at the least.

If you dislike Israel, then you probably dislike America. We basically control their every move, and it seems that when our government asks them to do things, they tend to do it, if not grudgingly. My problem is not Israel directly, its Israel listening to George Bush that worries me.

It bothers me that moderate Muslims in the U.S., Canada, Britain, France, etc., seem a lot quicker to complain that they are unfairly persecuted on account of the War on Terror, than they are to do much about the problem themselves. Which would be to root out their own bad apples.

Not sure about your other point, though, Sir T. Is it Israel listening to Bush? Or is Bush listening to Israel and the domestic pro-Zionists?

[kexodusc]

Maybe he should have stated "radical muslims" instead of just plain muslims. However, the radical voice seems to be the loudest voice as the more moderate muslims have remaind mum about renoucing this radical perspective. This to me is tacit support and is very unsettling at the least.

If you dislike Israel, then you probably dislike America. We basically control their every move, and it seems that when our government asks them to do things, they tend to do it, if not grudgingly. My problem is not Israel directly, its Israel listening to George Bush that worries me.

I probably have less of a problem with US foreign policy than most - sometimes the ends justify the means. We may have gone into Iraq for the wrong reasons, but it was the right thing to do.
And I'm very pro-Israel, I feel their actions were justified in Lebanon. But I'm also pragmatic. Islam did not start all this. If you look back through history, you can count on one hand the number of nations that were conquered and taken from their owners without war as a response. What the hell did the UN expect in 1948? Yes Muslim terrorists are fanatical, and mostly counter-productive to progress. But Israel has to concede more than they've been willing to if there's any chance for peace. And the two biggest parties responsible for this mess should play a bigger role in settling it equitably.

The UN propsal for Israel was approved by almost everyone except for the region it directly and spiritually impacted. Good move! So we have a long drawn out war that has seen hatred evolve on both sides. Rather than starting over and getting it right, the solution so far has been to keep throwing more money and weapons at a failed concept.

It's not fair to blame Israel for this, her people have suffered enough. It's only human for them to want their very own sovereign jewish state. And it explains, if not justifies their often disproportionate response to acts of aggression by her neighbors.

But this ain't going away until the map is redrawn, and the majority of the region are democratically satisfied and Israel is protected - no easy task.

[JoeE SP9]

Maybe he should have stated "radical muslims" instead of just plain muslims. However, the radical voice seems to be the loudest voice as the more moderate muslims have remaind mum about renoucing this radical perspective. This to me is tacit support and is very unsettling at the least.

If you dislike Israel, then you probably dislike America. We basically control their every move, and it seems that when our government asks them to do things, they tend to do it, if not grudgingly. My problem is not Israel directly, its Israel listening to George Bush that worries me.

We are in agreement. Moderate Muslims want a world based on Islamic rule and law. although they may not admit it to Christians and others. Moderate Islam is where the money to support radical Islam comes from. There is much more than tacit support going on. The active silence about terrorism and terrorists from moderate Muslims actually says quite a bit.

To any and all. I'm not just anti Islam. I'm anti all religions. I think all of them are silly. The ones that have silly dietary requirements or crazy dress codes just happen to be sillier than rest. Islam (radical) is the only one that wants to take away my freedom to write what I just wrote.

[JoeE SP9]

I've got less against Israel than Iran, but to deny that Israel is situated in a very contentious location is ridiculous...Muslims don't want to turn the world into a big afghanistan - do you even know any muslims?

I'm a black American who lives in the inner city. It's impossible for me not to know any Muslims. I'm surrounded by true Muslims and followers of the NOI (Nation Of Islam). I have several close friends who have made the Haj. I've also lived in the Middle East!
To expect Muslims to get along with anyone (not just Jews) is ridiculous. They can't even get along with themselves. Sunni and Shiite have been fighting for several hundred years over who is the successor to Mohammad.

[Florian]

Sunni and Shiite have been fighting for several hundred years over who is the successor to Mohammad.

You mean its not George Bush? Damn...now i gotta sell the fan T-Shirts again

[kexodusc]

Come on! Islam's holiest of sacred ground is in Saudi Arabia (it's called Mecca) and you as a non-Muslim can't go there. What do you have against Israel? They don't have designs and ideas of turning the rest of the world into a giant Israel. Muslims want to turn the world into a giant Afghanistan.

I'll grant you Mecca and Medina are more important than Jerusalem to Islam, though...not sure that lessens the importance to their culture any.

[trollgirl]

Come on! Islam's holiest of sacred ground is in Saudi Arabia (it's called Mecca) and you as a non-Muslim can't go there. What do you have against Israel? They don't have designs and ideas of turning the rest of the world into a giant Israel. Muslims want to turn the world into a giant Afghanistan.

JoeE, actually Jerusalem is holy to Islam. If I recall rightly, the Dome of the Rock is the third most holy site for Muslims. Most Christians, especially the North American variety, have almost entirely lost their sense of holy places. To many people around the world, it's very serious. As far as turning the whole world into a giant Afganistan, remember that most Islamic nations are not nearly that strict, the real world always being more complex than political slogans and speeches admit. BTW, the Talmud, the REAL holy book of Judiasm, has preached Jewish dominance of the world for many centuries. It states that 200 donkeys will be required to carry the chests containing the KEYS to all the other treasure chests which have been looted from the Goyim [read: cattle]. Again, most Jews are just trying to get on in this world, like everyone else.

Let's get past the Sterotypes:

not every Muslim is a Terrorist - few in fact

not every Jew is a greedy Banker - few in fact

not every Christian is a neo-Crusader - few in fact

Another group is responsible for pitting one against the other...

Laz

[GMichael]

Another group is responsible for pitting one against the other...
Laz

Don't keep us all in suspense. Who is that other group?

[bobsticks]

Don't keep us all in suspense. Who is that other group?

...how about the bankers, those invested in the military industrial complex, and those that own and control the means of production for oil?


Or maybe it was just...SATAN?!!! (mimics Churchlady)

[kexodusc]

Don't keep us all in suspense. Who is that other group?

C'mon, GM, open your eyes...it's the Galactic Confederacy under the rule of Xenu...

[trollgirl]

Don't keep us all in suspense. Who is that other group?

...Benjamin Disraeli said, the world is ruled by a very different group of people than you or I think or believe. I have been studying this subject for many years, and even the members of this group who are visible are just front men - errand boys. The Book of Revelation refers to it as Mystery Babylon, aka the New World Order, the Order, Skull & Bones, the Fourth Reich of the Rich, the Trilateral Commission, Roundtable, the Council on Foreign Relations, etc, etc, etc. Involved are most of the world's leading Nation States, the Mega Corporations, Mega Banks, Mega Labor Unions, the Military-Industrial Complex, Mega Religious Denominatios and Orders, the Masons, the Occult and New Age movements, etc, etc, etc. It is VERY difficult to finger any one organization as being THE GROUP, for it is amorphous and slippery, like Jello. A whole lot of people are involved to a greater or lesser degree, but I do not think for a moment that many people know the names of the core members. Those that do probably walk in fear, and I do know that lots of people end up dead/suicided for knowing too much. Ignorance truly is bliss...

DO NOT ask me to play Twenty Questions on this subject [looks over shoulder].

Laz

[JoeE SP9]

JoeE, actually Jerusalem is holy to Islam. If I recall rightly, the Dome of the Rock is the third most holy site for Muslims. Most Christians, especially the North American variety, have almost entirely lost their sense of holy places. To many people around the world, it's very serious. As far as turning the whole world into a giant Afganistan, remember that most Islamic nations are not nearly that strict, the real world always being more complex than political slogans and speeches admit. BTW, the Talmud, the REAL holy book of Judiasm, has preached Jewish dominance of the world for many centuries. It states that 200 donkeys will be required to carry the chests containing the KEYS to all the other treasure chests which have been looted from the Goyim [read: cattle]. Again, most Jews are just trying to get on in this world, like everyone else.

Let's get past the Sterotypes:

not every Muslim is a Terrorist - few in fact

not every Jew is a greedy Banker - few in fact

not every Christian is a neo-Crusader - few in fact

Another group is responsible for pitting one against the other...

Laz

Truly devout Muslims do not believe in any separation of church and state. Admittedly a world like Afghanistan is a stretch. Saudi Arabia is more like what devout Muslims would like the world to be. I don't want to live in a world like that either.

[JoeE SP9]

What everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten is that as usual the Muslims started the present crisis by lofting missiles into Israel. I say Muslims because Hezbollah has the tacit approval of Muslims in general and Lebanese Muslims in particular. Once you add the monetary support Iran provides for Muslim hate groups you leave Israel with few choices.

BTW Why is it OK for them to denigrate our symbols, burn our flag and threaten our way of life with destruction and we are supposed to take it without protest.