Petition to destroy the Iranian nuclear facilities

[Sheila_Israel]

While you are reading this, the Iranian reactor produces enriched bomb-grade uranium. Terrorists can deliver that bomb to your city, and it can kill you and your children. Yet the government does nothing.

Do we demand violence? Not in any common sense. Similarly, police use force to arrest criminals in order to stop violence.

But Iran is not a criminal? Wrong. Iran has proven malicious intent. Iran, under the current regime, conducted many terrorist bombings in the West, and sponsors deadly terrorists. Iranian leaders repeatedly called for fight against the United States and annihilation of Israel.

Perhaps Iran needs nuclear weapons for self-defense? No. Iran already bullies the Middle East with its huge conventional army. No country threatens Iran.

Since the eighth-century jihad and the Ottoman army at the gates of Vienna, the West has never been exposed to such threat. Iran’s several nuclear bombs can inflict more damage on America than the World War II. Never before the Islamic fundamentalists who hate the West and dream of attacking it had military might of apocalyptic dimensions. Are you crazy to doubt they will use the bomb?

We call on the United States: Do not hesitate. Protect your people. Protect your allies. Destroy the Iranian reactor!

To sign the petition, visit http://terrorismisrael.com/nuclear_iran.htm

[trollgirl]

No country threatens Iran.

The above is the only part of your post I care to deal with directly, as the rest is pure propaganda. The quote is a LIE! Do you not know that even now, the United States and Jewish-Occupied Palestine are preparing to nuke Iran?? Ask yourself, what is better, that Iran MIGHT nuke the West, or that the West certainly WILL nuke Iran? The whole world is already too contaminated with depleted uranium, and the leaders only want to add to it. There is just no reason for Iran to be anyone's enemy, but some folks have an inner craving to have one, for their own sick purposes, profit, or whatever. Will the entire world go down to extinction because of one small mideast nation's paranoia? You can not fight or wage war for peace, you must practice peace for peace. Further, you can not set up the Kingdom with the arm of flesh - every nation which has tried has gone down into the dust bin of history.

Laz

[JoeE SP9]

The above is the only part of your post I care to deal with directly, as the rest is pure propaganda. The quote is a LIE! Do you not know that even now, the United States and Jewish-Occupied Palestine are preparing to nuke Iran?? Ask yourself, what is better, that Iran MIGHT nuke the West, or that the West certainly WILL nuke Iran? The whole world is already too contaminated with depleted uranium, and the leaders only want to add to it. There is just no reason for Iran to be anyone's enemy, but some folks have an inner craving to have one, for their own sick purposes, profit, or whatever. Will the entire world go down to extinction because of one small mideast nation's paranoia? You can not fight or wage war for peace, you must practice peace for peace. Further, you can not set up the Kingdom with the arm of flesh - every nation which has tried has gone down into the dust bin of history.

Laz

When would you nuke Iran? Before or after Iran nukes Israel?

[bobsticks]

"There is no reason for Iran to be anyones enemy"

Laz, I have to respectfully disagree with your conclusions. Many in the younger generations are being indoctrinated into the radical fundamentalist fervor. Perhaps had the behavior of Europe and the US been different this would not be so, but it is.

Despite what the ultra-liberal intelligensia would have one believe, we cannot view Iran as our chippy little Middle Eastern neighbor whose culture it's important to be tolerant of. This cannot be viewed through pluralist lenses as it is the declared antithesis of pluralism.
The ruling elite classes in virtually every middle eastern country are fostering hatred, if for no other reason than to deflect critical eyes from the social inequities that their kingdoms promote.

I do not support a pre-emptive nuclear strike, but I would without equivocation support whatever steps necessary to prevent nuclear proliferation (anywhere but certainly in Iran).
To suggest that Iran would or could exist in a state of perpetual detente with the West is a dangerous folly.

[JoeE SP9]

I believe that sooner or later Iran will push Israel too far. Israel will reply with some of the nukes they and the South Africans have been working on. There are too many Arabs that hate Israel for them to continue using conventional warfare when the Muslims all get together. They will be able to cease fighting each other only long enough to attack Israel en masse. After Israel nukes them back to the stone age the world will still have North Korea to deal with. Thats our problem and the Israeli's can't help us there.

[trollgirl]

The ruling elite classes in virtually every middle eastern country are fostering hatred, if for no other reason than to deflect critical eyes from the social inequities that their kingdoms promote.

I do not support a pre-emptive nuclear strike, but I would without equivocation support whatever steps necessary to prevent nuclear proliferation.

Two questions, and I hope my deletions do not leave what you said out of context:

Does not the West, thru the War on Terror, also foster hatred, and for the same reason, to deflect critical eyes from "social inequities" or shall I call it failed domestic policy??

If you would support whatever steps necessary, etc, would that also include a pre-emptive nuclear strike, nuclear war being the very thing non-proleferation is supposedly aimed at preventing??

How many nuclear wars have we had in modern times? WW II, Gulf War I, Kosovo, Gulf War II. Only one with thermonuclear blasts, but the other three have all the rest. Nuclear proliferation can no longer be prevented, and the methods being used will be disaster for us all...

Laz

[Feanor]

...
No country threatens Iran.
...

Even that part is untrue. Certainly both the U.S. and Israel have contingency plans to attack Iran. Granted, these plans are a response to perceived threats from Iran, but perceived threats, especially on the part of the U.S. are not necessarily valid, to wit, Iraq's WMD.

From Iran's perspective the threat of U.S. invasion must be seen as very valid, and as a sovereign nation, they have a right to self-defence. For better or worse, nuclear capability is a great deterrent.

Peace in the middle east -- hence likely the rest of the world -- will depend on settlements between Israel and its neighbours. And settlements will mean deep concessions from Israel. The U.S. and certain other western countries need to stop being uncritical supporters of Israel -- and that's an understatement if ever there was one.

[bobsticks]

Laz,
I don't think that the primary reason for the War on Terror is to deflect attention from failed domestic policy. I believe it exists because militant factions supported by militant states perpetrated a massive attack on our homeland. I believe it exists because militant leaders of these factions have avowed to continue such attacks. Finally, I believe it existed at one point in time because Saadaam Hussien was a cruel and toturous despot who went so so far as to drop phosgene gas on his own citizens not because they posed some real separatist or irredentist threat, but because they were ethnically different.

I am not naive enough to believe that there are less than a few politicians that are pleased with the unintended diversion of attention away from the economy, but this is a side-effect not a causal condition.

I do not support a pre-emptive nuclear strike. I should have inserted the word "other" into that sentence and I apologize for the lack of clarity. A PNS would undoubtedly bring about far too much collateral damage and,in doing so, galvanize the efforts and wills of militants across the globe. I contend that the proper course of action would be to properly fund and arm our intelligence community. We are woefully ill-prepared in even the most basic areas of cryptography and linguistics. To avoid the necessity for a full scale ground assault, and for the success of surgical air strikes and other stealth campaigns, we must focus on our intelligence gathering apparatus.

Bill,
I agree that we must cease to be uncritical supporters of Israel. That is not to say that we end relations, but I concur that they must be held accountable for their actions, for too long they have been co-equal provocateurs.

Thanks you both for the respectful exchange of ideas...

Peace,
M

[Resident Loser]

...when the US sold Hawk missles to Israel, in order to counter the Cold War threat of the USSRs support for Egypt, our State department considered Israel a zionist state...It was OK when Begin and Dyan were killing Brits because they were "freedom fighters"..."Never again" seems to be a one-way street...They are the problem (or at least the biggest part) and I for one say to he!! with 'em...

jimHJJ(...period...)

[kexodusc]

...when the US sold Hawk missles to Israel, in order to counter the Cold War threat of the USSRs support for Egypt, our State department considered Israel a zionist state...It was OK when Begin and Dyan were killing Brits because they were "freedom fighters"..."Never again" seems to be a one-way street...They are the problem (or at least the biggest part) and I for one say to he!! with 'em...

jimHJJ(...period...)

Yeah, and another thing...

Whose bright idea was it to stick'em all in the ever-coveted-by-all, multi-Holy land of Israel, surrounded by religious states on all sides, and to fund and supply them with decades of military resources, anyway?!?...them guys should be ah-givin' they' heads a shake...

kex(whoever they are)

[ericl]

I don't think this post should be here. This person is obviously not here to discuss audio at all, but to troll about this issue. I find that very annoying. You guys are making a discussion out of it, so I suppose it's ok.. Your call on guys like this..

[GMichael]

I think it's amazing that people here can calmly discuss such a touchy issue without fighting. I am enjoying this read.

[noddin0ff]

I think it's amazing that people here can calmly discuss such a touchy issue without fighting. I am enjoying this read.

What a jerk.

[GMichael]

What a jerk.

Like a dart to my heart.

Hopefully the good people who have jacked this thread will continue their intelligent conversation.

[bobsticks]

Kexo, you had me until "This is synonymous with denying Islam it's sovereign right to existence ", which in point of fact, it is not.

I agree that the entire concept of Israel was ill conceived, but they are here now and have been here for some time. No one that is doing the dying right now is old enough to even remember a time when this was not so. The hate that is being passed through generations on both sides hasn't abated. That alone necessitates the prevention of a nuclear Iran.

[kexodusc]

I don't think this post should be here. This person is obviously not here to discuss audio at all, but to troll about this issue. I find that very annoying. You guys are making a discussion out of it, so I suppose it's ok.. Your call on guys like this..

I didn't respond to the original troll, but I'd like to think we jacked his thread
He was probably a soft-dome luvin, SET fan anyway...

@#&% him!

[Feanor]

I don't think this post should be here. This person is obviously not here to discuss audio at all, but to troll about this issue. I find that very annoying. You guys are making a discussion out of it, so I suppose it's ok.. Your call on guys like this..

Then again I personally rarely back away from a debate on politics or religion.

[CookieFactory]

First off, the OP's post is pure propaganda. Second if we put aside our instinctual ethnocentrism for a moment, why would be it be OK for Israel to develop nuclear technology but not Iran - even when they say it's for power generation? Another question is why is Iran's claims to peaceful development of nuclear tech viewed with such suspicion yet Israel has free reign?

[Feanor]

First off, the OP's post is pure propaganda. Second if we put aside our instinctual ethnocentrism for a moment, why would be it be OK for Israel to develop nuclear technology but not Iran - even when they say it's for power generation? Another question is why is Iran's claims to peaceful development of nuclear tech viewed with such suspicion yet Israel has free reign?

I hoped to see a return to rationality in U.S. foreign policy, but it didn't happen. The U.S. might have set out in the early '90s to redress the failings of its Cold War policies, such as support for the Shaw of Iran, but instead did nothing rub salt in old wounds.

The U.S. has continued to support certain old Cold War allies, once regard as bulwarks against Communism, but now merely fighting local battles. Israel is the prime example of this. The continuing irrational and uncritical support for that small country, population <6 million, has thoroughly alienated the Arab and Moslim world, population 1.2 billion. The war on terrorism has to be fought at its causes which is largely U.S. foreign policy, past and present.

[JoeE SP9]

First off, the OP's post is pure propaganda. Second if we put aside our instinctual ethnocentrism for a moment, why would be it be OK for Israel to develop nuclear technology but not Iran - even when they say it's for power generation? Another question is why is Iran's claims to peaceful development of nuclear tech viewed with such suspicion yet Israel has free reign?

Israel is not actively supporting terrorism against me and mine (the USA). Israel is not actively supporting any movement to make the world an Islamic state. The avowed aim of radical Islam is the establishment of an Islamic world. I am not too interested in having to live in a world like that.

[CookieFactory]

Israel is not actively supporting terrorism against me and mine (the USA). Israel is not actively supporting any movement to make the world an Islamic state. The avowed aim of radical Islam is the establishment of an Islamic world. I am not too interested in having to live in a world like that.

Summarized nicely into a single word: Ethnocentrism.

Contrary to popular Western belief, but the world at large might not want to convert to "democracy", especially the USA's flavor of it - AKA "We will give you liberty, or we will give you death!"

I think ultimately history will prove democracy to be a flawed philosophy in the same way communism was - the reliance on positive human nature. Communism depended on humans being unselfish, and democracy depends on an educated and politically active populace. Suffice it to say, the USA is not a shining example of the ideal democratic state, especially when there are more votes for American Idol than for the presidential elections.

IMO the ideal form of government is a benevolent dictatorship.

[TimW]

Call me strange, call me weird, call me blind even, but somewhere in all this I missed the references to audio equipment....does all the talk about nuclear weaponry have anything to do with the upcoming use of beryllium in a new line of speakers by Yamaha? They’ve lifted the ban on its use? Or is there a fear that the Iranians might start dropping beryllium-laden speakers on US cities?

Folks, there are forums aplenty on the net where those who wish to indulge in the rhetoric of war, ethnic and religious intolerance, and US foreign policy can do so to their hearts content. Last I looked this forum existed for the cross-exchange of ideas and knowledge regarding a shared passion, audio equipment, not for indulging in a fruitless exercise to second-guess who/when/if the USA/Iran/Israel would/should/might nuke/gas/spank the USA/Iran/Israel. If that doesn’t make sense, neither does it do anything for my sensibilities to come here to peruse the pages and find a header devoted to such an off-topic discussion.

If you think I’m not concerned or involved you’re dead wrong. I have written numerous letters to various papers since 2003 regarding my views, and have created a number of web pages devoted to the subject of the Middle East. The whole exercise has been physically draining and personally very taxing over the last few years, even to the extent of costing long-standing friendships. As can be seen on this very thread, the subject polarizes people and creates disharmony, which is the last thing a forum devoted to the appreciation of music should be about. I come here for relaxation and to learn about a subject dear to me, not to be dragged back unwillingly to a topic I’ve already devoted far too much energy to – years of it.

For myself, if not for others, I would petition that we all get back to respecting what this place is all about. If you want appropriate forums to battle it out anew just let me know and I can happily direct you to them.

Respectfully.....Tim

[Resident Loser]

...Call me strange, call me weird, call me blind even, but somewhere in all this I missed the references to audio equipment....
Respectfully.....Tim

...might want to include unobservant in that litany as this forum is specifically for off-topic, non-audio matters...add to that it's the steel-cage, a rather no-holds-barred section of the OT forum...

Now, unless you have anything to add get your dumb@$$ out of here and talk shop in any one of the other forums...

jimHJJ(...thank you...)

[kexodusc]

...might want to include unobservant in that litany as this forum is specifically for off-topic, non-audio matters...add to that it's the steel-cage, a rather no-holds-barred section of the OT forum...

Now, unless you have anything to add get your dumb@$$ out of here and talk shop in any one of the other forums...

jimHJJ(...thank you...)

ROFLMAO...
Sorry,
Nothing to add...the man's just got good material....

Well...I could mention that this thread did lay dormant for 2 months until...nah.

[GMichael]

ROFLMAO...
Sorry,
Nothing to add...the man's just got good material....

Well...I could mention that this thread did lay dormant for 2 months until...nah.

Ditto. Good stuff here. Thanks for the laughs.