Petition to destroy the Iranian nuclear facilities

[kexodusc]

Come on! Islam's holiest of sacred ground is in Saudi Arabia (it's called Mecca) and you as a non-Muslim can't go there. What do you have against Israel? They don't have designs and ideas of turning the rest of the world into a giant Israel. Muslims want to turn the world into a giant Afghanistan.

I've got less against Israel than Iran, but to deny that Israel is situated in a very contentious location is ridiculous...Muslims don't want to turn the world into a big afghanistan - do you even know any muslims?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I've got less against Israel than Iran, but to deny that Israel is situated in a very contentious location is ridiculous...Muslims don't want to turn the world into a big afghanistan - do you even know any muslims?

Maybe he should have stated "radical muslims" instead of just plain muslims. However, the radical voice seems to be the loudest voice as the more moderate muslims have remaind mum about renoucing this radical perspective. This to me is tacit support and is very unsettling at the least.

If you dislike Israel, then you probably dislike America. We basically control their every move, and it seems that when our government asks them to do things, they tend to do it, if not grudgingly. My problem is not Israel directly, its Israel listening to George Bush that worries me.

[Feanor]

Maybe he should have stated "radical muslims" instead of just plain muslims. However, the radical voice seems to be the loudest voice as the more moderate muslims have remaind mum about renoucing this radical perspective. This to me is tacit support and is very unsettling at the least.

If you dislike Israel, then you probably dislike America. We basically control their every move, and it seems that when our government asks them to do things, they tend to do it, if not grudgingly. My problem is not Israel directly, its Israel listening to George Bush that worries me.

It bothers me that moderate Muslims in the U.S., Canada, Britain, France, etc., seem a lot quicker to complain that they are unfairly persecuted on account of the War on Terror, than they are to do much about the problem themselves. Which would be to root out their own bad apples.

Not sure about your other point, though, Sir T. Is it Israel listening to Bush? Or is Bush listening to Israel and the domestic pro-Zionists?

[kexodusc]

Maybe he should have stated "radical muslims" instead of just plain muslims. However, the radical voice seems to be the loudest voice as the more moderate muslims have remaind mum about renoucing this radical perspective. This to me is tacit support and is very unsettling at the least.

If you dislike Israel, then you probably dislike America. We basically control their every move, and it seems that when our government asks them to do things, they tend to do it, if not grudgingly. My problem is not Israel directly, its Israel listening to George Bush that worries me.

I probably have less of a problem with US foreign policy than most - sometimes the ends justify the means. We may have gone into Iraq for the wrong reasons, but it was the right thing to do.
And I'm very pro-Israel, I feel their actions were justified in Lebanon. But I'm also pragmatic. Islam did not start all this. If you look back through history, you can count on one hand the number of nations that were conquered and taken from their owners without war as a response. What the hell did the UN expect in 1948? Yes Muslim terrorists are fanatical, and mostly counter-productive to progress. But Israel has to concede more than they've been willing to if there's any chance for peace. And the two biggest parties responsible for this mess should play a bigger role in settling it equitably.

The UN propsal for Israel was approved by almost everyone except for the region it directly and spiritually impacted. Good move! So we have a long drawn out war that has seen hatred evolve on both sides. Rather than starting over and getting it right, the solution so far has been to keep throwing more money and weapons at a failed concept.

It's not fair to blame Israel for this, her people have suffered enough. It's only human for them to want their very own sovereign jewish state. And it explains, if not justifies their often disproportionate response to acts of aggression by her neighbors.

But this ain't going away until the map is redrawn, and the majority of the region are democratically satisfied and Israel is protected - no easy task.

[Resident Loser]

...here's where it gets interesting...I'm sure the OP didn't see this coming...

First of all, the whole Arab-Israeli conflict is a family feud that's been brewing for a few thousand years...It seems old Abraham (Ibrihaim to the Muslims) couldn't get Sara (who may have been his half-sister) preggers...so Sara suggests he have a go at Hagar, her maid (who may have been Egyptian)...Well nine months later, out pops Ishmael and all is well 'til Abe and Sara get lucky, resulting in Bob Dylan's Highway 61...a, er Isaac...Well good old honest Abe shows Hagar and his b@$tard son the door and the rest is history...

The ancient Hebrews were nomadic and some of them settled (yes settled) in the land of the Pharoahs...Egypt and they were enslaved and they are subsequently released and ride into the sunrise to the land of milk and honey...

Somewhere along the line, Jacob (Isaac's son) is renamed Israel, so the the children of Israel are descendants of a man named Israel, not a land, nation or anything else...

Now...does anyone out there think the bit o'geography currently known as Israel was vacant and/or desolate? It was the land of Canaan and was just chock full of Canaanites, Jebusites and the occasional Phillistine or two...And Joshua smote the defenders when the walls of Jericho come a-tumblin' down and subsequently David whacks Goliath with his version of the Holy Hand-grenade Of Antioch and long story short...they invaded, captured Jerusalem (ca. 1000BC) and built a temple...so far, so good...until the arrival of imperial Rome, who take exception to the in-fighting among the various Hebrew factions, does a bit of smite-ing of their own and scatters the Israelites to the four winds and renames the land Syria Palestina...

Jerusalem remained under the Roman and Byzatine rule until the Muslim invasion...in fact it was the Muslims (unlike Byzantium) who allowed for a certain amount of Jewish autonomy...then there's the Crusades and the Holy Roman Empire and the Ottoman Turks and the Balfour Document and British Mandate of Palestine and the League of Nations etc., etc....

It wasn't until world Jewry began to resettle to Palestine en masse in the mid-1800s and the advent of Zionism near the turn of the century, that things got sticky again...

Jews have always been considered a nation within a nation as evidenced by their actions and Zionism holds that to be a foundational precept...that they are a divinely ordained counter-culture uber alles so-to-speak...Reminds me of the the scene in MP and the Holy Grail when Arthur and the peasants engage in a dialog re: supreme authority...

There are many other things that impinge on the whole enchilada including the men's daily prayer thanking God that they aren't a woman...it's that sorta' thing that tends to put folks off...

jimHJJ(...everything may be a bit compressed, but holy, horse-hockey...crack open a book now and again...)

[GMichael]

You left out Adam and Eve.

[Resident Loser]

You left out Adam and Eve.

...looking for the new fall fig leaves...

jimHJJ(...with which to cover their nakedidity...)

[JoeE SP9]

...here's where it gets interesting...I'm sure the OP didn't see this coming...

First of all, the whole Arab-Israeli conflict is a family feud that's been brewing for a few thousand years...It seems old Abraham (Ibrihaim to the Muslims) couldn't get Sara (who may have been his half-sister) preggers...so Sara suggests he have a go at Hagar, her maid (who may have been Egyptian)...Well nine months later, out pops Ishmael and all is well 'til Abe and Sara get lucky, resulting in Bob Dylan's Highway 61...a, er Isaac...Well good old honest Abe shows Hagar and his b@$tard son the door and the rest is history...

The ancient Hebrews were nomadic and some of them settled (yes settled) in the land of the Pharoahs...Egypt and they were enslaved and they are subsequently released and ride into the sunrise to the land of milk and honey...

Somewhere along the line, Jacob (Isaac's son) is renamed Israel, so the the children of Israel are descendants of a man named Israel, not a land, nation or anything else...

Now...does anyone out there think the bit o'geography currently known as Israel was vacant and/or desolate? It was the land of Canaan and was just chock full of Canaanites, Jebusites and the occasional Phillistine or two...And Joshua smote the defenders when the walls of Jericho come a-tumblin' down and subsequently David whacks Goliath with his version of the Holy Hand-grenade Of Antioch and long story short...they invaded, captured Jerusalem (ca. 1000BC) and built a temple...so far, so good...until the arrival of imperial Rome, who take exception to the in-fighting among the various Hebrew factions, does a bit of smite-ing of their own and scatters the Israelites to the four winds and renames the land Syria Palestina...

Jerusalem remained under the Roman and Byzatine rule until the Muslim invasion...in fact it was the Muslims (unlike Byzantium) who allowed for a certain amount of Jewish autonomy...then there's the Crusades and the Holy Roman Empire and the Ottoman Turks and the Balfour Document and British Mandate of Palestine and the League of Nations etc., etc....

It wasn't until world Jewry began to resettle to Palestine en masse in the mid-1800s and the advent of Zionism near the turn of the century, that things got sticky again...

Jews have always been considered a nation within a nation as evidenced by their actions and Zionism holds that to be a foundational precept...that they are a divinely ordained counter-culture uber alles so-to-speak...Reminds me of the the scene in MP and the Holy Grail when Arthur and the peasants engage in a dialog re: supreme authority...

There are many other things that impinge on the whole enchilada including the men's daily prayer thanking God that they aren't a woman...it's that sorta' thing that tends to put folks off...

jimHJJ(...everything may be a bit compressed, but holy, horse-hockey...crack open a book now and again...)

That's no worse than the Muslim belief that women aren't really human.

[JoeE SP9]

Maybe he should have stated "radical muslims" instead of just plain muslims. However, the radical voice seems to be the loudest voice as the more moderate muslims have remaind mum about renoucing this radical perspective. This to me is tacit support and is very unsettling at the least.

If you dislike Israel, then you probably dislike America. We basically control their every move, and it seems that when our government asks them to do things, they tend to do it, if not grudgingly. My problem is not Israel directly, its Israel listening to George Bush that worries me.

We are in agreement. Moderate Muslims want a world based on Islamic rule and law. although they may not admit it to Christians and others. Moderate Islam is where the money to support radical Islam comes from. There is much more than tacit support going on. The active silence about terrorism and terrorists from moderate Muslims actually says quite a bit.

To any and all. I'm not just anti Islam. I'm anti all religions. I think all of them are silly. The ones that have silly dietary requirements or crazy dress codes just happen to be sillier than rest. Islam (radical) is the only one that wants to take away my freedom to write what I just wrote.

[JoeE SP9]

I've got less against Israel than Iran, but to deny that Israel is situated in a very contentious location is ridiculous...Muslims don't want to turn the world into a big afghanistan - do you even know any muslims?

I'm a black American who lives in the inner city. It's impossible for me not to know any Muslims. I'm surrounded by true Muslims and followers of the NOI (Nation Of Islam). I have several close friends who have made the Haj. I've also lived in the Middle East!
To expect Muslims to get along with anyone (not just Jews) is ridiculous. They can't even get along with themselves. Sunni and Shiite have been fighting for several hundred years over who is the successor to Mohammad.

[Florian]

Sunni and Shiite have been fighting for several hundred years over who is the successor to Mohammad.

You mean its not George Bush? Damn...now i gotta sell the fan T-Shirts again