JFK Assassination

[GMichael]

Oswald could have easily been the 60's version of a suicide bomber.

[Geoffcin]

I think Oswald was not agent material as the CIA found out. They kept a file on him and had him as some maverick element. Ed Lopez from the HSCA testified to that effect.
But him being involved with the KGB I wouldn't discount at all.
And Ruby was definitly let in to the Police headquaters to cary out his task.

Peace

Bernd

Cause he was pretty nuts. But the KGB said the same thing at the time, and I don't believe anything they say. As a rouge operative that can't be traced back to them it's too good to be true to turn down.

Remember Oswald had every intention of getting away with this, and he damn near did too. If he had gotten out of Texas he would have made a beeline for Russia with his Russian bride.

[Bernd]

Cause he was pretty nuts. But the KGB said the same thing at the time, and I don't believe anything they say. As a rouge operative that can't be traced back to them it's too good to be true to turn down.

Remember Oswald had every intention of getting away with this, and he damn near did too. If he had gotten out of Texas he would have made a beeline for Russia with his Russian bride.

I don't think he expected to see Marina again as he left his wedding ring behind at Ruth Paine's house, where Marina stayed, ( that of course is no proof of his intention to kill the president-just that the relationship was over).
It is just the most amazing murder story in recent history if not ever.
I don't think we will ever know for sure. I go shooting and have a bespoke rifle and I find it impossible to let off three rounds acuratley in the time frame allocated for the Dallas shooting (maybe I am not as good as Lee). You certainly can not do that with a $ 19.- Mail order rifle.

Bernd

[Geoffcin]

I don't think he expected to see Marina again as he left his wedding ring behind at Ruth Paine's house, where Marina stayed, ( that of course is no proof of his intention to kill the president-just that the relationship was over).
It is just the most amazing murder story in recent history if not ever.
I don't think we will ever know for sure. I go shooting and have a bespoke rifle and I find it impossible to let off three rounds acuratley in the time frame allocated for the Dallas shooting (maybe I am not as good as Lee). You certainly can not do that with a $ 19.- Mail order rifle.

Bernd

Remember the guy was nuts, but not so nuts that he thought he was going to get away with it for sure. Leaving the ring behind was a way to let Marina off the hook. It worked didn't it?

Training is the key to anything. I've seen a guy toss two skeet into the air and peg them both with a Colt 1911. Even though I hold an expert marksman rating, If I tried to do that without practice it would be impossible. I don't even think I could get one! I saw the same guy peg an 8" balloon at 150 yards with the same .45 caliber handgun. Took him two shots, but the first one was just a ranging shot to measure the slug's drop. As good as he is, he's not beyond what any other marksman can do given the proper training.

No, hitting a target from a strategic sniping location not only possible, but very likely. Especially with the proper training.

[GMichael]

Remember the guy was nuts, but not so nuts that he thought he was going to get away with it for sure. Leaving the ring behind was a way to let Marina off the hook. It worked didn't it?

Training is the key to anything. I've seen a guy toss two skeet into the air and peg them both with a Colt 1911. Even though I hold an expert marksman rating, If I tried to do that without practice it would be impossible. I don't even think I could get one! I saw the same guy peg an 8" balloon at 150 yards with the same .45 caliber handgun. Took him two shots, but the first one was just a ranging shot to measure the slug's drop. As good as he is, he's not beyond what any other marksman can do given the proper training.

No, hitting a target from a strategic sniping location not only possible, but very likely. Especially with the proper training.

I'm no gun or shooting expert although I have shot a few and get most in the center ring. I do have experience with billiards & pool. I know a guy who can throw a ball onto a table, and while it's still bouncing shoot it into a pocket. He can manage this 9 out of 10 tries. It's amazing what some people can do with enough practice.

[Bernd]

Remember the guy was nuts, but not so nuts that he thought he was going to get away with it for sure. Leaving the ring behind was a way to let Marina off the hook. It worked didn't it?

Training is the key to anything. I've seen a guy toss two skeet into the air and peg them both with a Colt 1911. Even though I hold an expert marksman rating, If I tried to do that without practice it would be impossible. I don't even think I could get one! I saw the same guy peg an 8" balloon at 150 yards with the same .45 caliber handgun. Took him two shots, but the first one was just a ranging shot to measure the slug's drop. As good as he is, he's not beyond what any other marksman can do given the proper training.

No, hitting a target from a strategic sniping location not only possible, but very likely. Especially with the proper training.

It's great is it not to see a great marksmen at work.
But what I was saying is that I doubt that Oswald (who wasn't an expert shot) could have, with a $19.- mailorder bolt action rifle, have let the shots off in the time specified by the Warren commission. Moreover there is no hard evidence that he was even there. I have not heard of any marksmen who has repeated that at a moving target and hit it.If there is one please let me know, it would love to put that doubt to bed.
And of course three shots will have to include the magic bullet. Emerging pristine after breaking a dense bone, a rib, etc. Something else I have never seen.

Bernd

[trollgirl]

I really really doubt that Oswald could have hit JFK from the sixth storey, using an inferior rifle. Nearly all shooting practice is done on a horizontal range, and the angle alone would have hopelessly thrown off his accuracy, even given that he was a crack shot, which he was not. What he was, IMO was a patsy. If you watch the film of JFK taking the bullets, it is very apparent that at least some of the shots came from the front. I have seen a diagram of all the OTHER bullets recovered from the scene, and they all originated from the sidewalk to the front left of the motorcade. Some film frames show, at that very spot, a tall man holding what could easily be a pair of pistols, but the resolution was not the best. In one such frame, a woman is standing in front of him, in a later frame, she is on the ground, apparently having caught a bullet. There is no record of her at all, but in the Warren Commission report, one of the motorcade's motorcycle cops, the one to the front left, reported blood and matter sprayed onto his motorcycle. One assassination researcher, now passed away, even supplied the man's name, a Russian ex-pat, who turned up dead during the 1972 Congressional investigation. Quite a few people became corpses during that time period...

Ask yourself: Who ordered the final, permanent sealing of the assassination records?


Laz

[wayner86]

Strange, i googled the first sentence in this guys thread and found it on 20 other forums, ...seems to be the same with all of his posts...good topic though, nonetheless.

[ericl]

Strange, i googled the first sentence in this guys thread and found it on 20 other forums, ...seems to be the same with all of his posts...good topic though, nonetheless.

he just posts the same posts on any and every forum that he can find.. Dude could give a crap about audio or anything relevant to the site.

[JOEBIALEK]

good points...

[zapr]

Perhaps known as one of the greatest murder mysteries of all time, the assassination of President John F. Kennedy has for years intrigued scholars, authors and the average American citizen. The assassination can be classified into two distinct categories: method and significance. Few would argue that too much emphasis has been given to the method and very little to the significance. This is exactly how the perpetrators would like it to be. Photographic evidence along with eyewitness testimony has already conclusively proven that JFK was shot by more than one assassin. The Mary Mormon photo clearly shows the profile of a shooter behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll. It is obviously someone wearing a policeman's uniform {some speculate it was J.D. Tippit}. This was the fatal head shot. Two other bullets struck the President; the first one entered at the base of the throat and the second struck him in the back. While the positions of the assassins makes for a good game of clue, the more important issue is the significance of the assassination.

Many have speculated that the former Soviet Union, Cuba, the KKK, the Mafia, LBJ, CIA and the FBI all had strong motives to attempt this. However, given the connection of Lee Harvey Oswald to the CIA and Jack Ruby to the Mafia along with the altered autopsy reports, the evidence points to a coup de' dat by the CIA. They did it because they believed JFK was taking the United States on the wrong path towards dealing with communism. That is the reason why the cover-up has been sustained for so long. The perpetrators honestly believed they were doing the right thing for the United States at the time. The will of the people was discarded in favor of preserving the nation as they saw fit. Unfortunately, they didn't realize the long term effects of the assassination. One result was the increased power of capitalism over democracy. Profit has become more important than freedom. Corporations are more concerned with increasing the wealth of a select few than with promoting the general welfare of the very nation that allows them to conduct business. A second result has been the subordination of this nation's civil liberties to the private agendas of the powers that be. The only opinions that are accepted today are those that further the bottom line. Contrary opinions are discouraged and distorted by spin doctors. The only explanation for the lack of attention given to the significance of the assassination is because the government, the military and the media all know what happened and to expose the event for what it really was goes to the central core of what constitutes the United States of America.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The man behind the fence wearing the policemans uniform was a man named Luician Saurtee. Not sure of the spelling. His shot missed the car completely and the bullit was found inbedded in the grass across the road. The fatal head shot came from the manhole drain from in front and slightly to the right. Research has shown this through projectory as Kennedy's head moves back and to the right. Luician Saurtee was killed in Mexico City in 1974. Yes it was the CIA in conjunction with the mafia and the military industrial complex. The Vietman war was the main reason as Kennedy was in the process of getting the soldiers out. The war in Vietnam meant alot of money for very powerful men. The perpetrators were not thinking of the United States, only of themselves. There are many photographs in Dealy Plaza from that day exposing many high ranking government officials, some of who are still alive today. When asked where they were that day, most say they can't recall! One only has to look at how things changed after that day, who benifited, who was involved, and who lived the longest everafter, to be able to figure it out.

[zapr]

The original post got steered off course and my hand was on the wheel. So I will try and put it back on course.
There are just too many unexplained coincidences to point the finger at Lee Harvey Oswald.
Lots of doubts, but for me one of the most fundamental points is this:

"Where is the evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald" was on the 6th floor of theTexas School Book Depository when JFK got shot?" But more importantly where is the evidence that he was even there at all? Where is it?

Peace

Bernd

There is a photogragh as the motorcade rounded the corner. In the back ground, it appears to be Oswald talking to a police officer on the steps of the book depository. So he had how many seconds to run up to the sixth floor?

[Feanor]

I think Lee Harvey Oswald did it -- period. I think that three shots were fired by him, although that's less clear. I don't think the CIA nor Mafia nor the Soviet Union nor Cuba were involved.

But here's the thing: assuming it was a CIA coup, the following statement of yours is wrong ...

.
...
Unfortunately, they didn't realize the long term effects of the assassination. One result was the increased power of capitalism over democracy. Profit has become more important than freedom. Corporations are more concerned with increasing the wealth of a select few than with promoting the general welfare of the very nation that allows them to conduct business. A second result has been the subordination of this nation's civil liberties to the private agendas of the powers that be. The only opinions that are accepted today are those that further the bottom line. ....

Had they done that, they would have understood these long term effects and approved of them. This is what conservatism in the US is about. What? Do you think it's about "family values"?

[Feanor]

Is that some tweebie jerk misfit nobody with a $20 rifle could blow 'way the high and mighty U.S. President. But I think that's the way it went down.

I suspect Oswald fired three shots -- not just two. The two bullet theory can from some "expert" who wasn't as componetent cranking the Carcano bolt as Oswald, so, not to look bad he proclaimed only two shots could have been fired but he was wrong.

Yes, Oswald was "lucky" to put the one through Kennedy's head, but luck happens. Another when through Kennedy's neck and might been the bullet found in the Governor's pant cuff. Another inflicted the Governor's wound. I don't recall what I thought was the order of the shots, except the head shot was probably last. Anyway, that's my theory -- as good as any and better than most.

[zapr]

Is that some tweebie jerk misfit nobody with a $20 rifle could blow 'way the high and mighty U.S. President. But I think that's the way it went down.

I suspect Oswald fired three shots -- not just two. The two bullet theory can from some "expert" who wasn't as componetent cranking the Carcano bolt as Oswald, so, not to look bad he proclaimed only two shots could have been fired but he was wrong.

Yes, Oswald was "lucky" to put the one through Kennedy's head, but luck happens. Another when through Kennedy's neck and might been the bullet found in the Governor's pant cuff. Another inflicted the Governor's wound. I don't recall what I thought was the order of the shots, except the head shot was probably last. Anyway, that's my theory -- as good as any and better than most.

Right........Watch the Zapuder film!

[Resident Loser]

Had they done that, they would have understood these long term effects and approved of them.

...with all the revelations re: the FBI and the CIA, I sincerely doubt they looked much past that day's two-martini lunch...

jimHJJ(...intelligence???...)

[Feanor]

...with all the revelations re: the FBI and the CIA, I sincerely doubt they looked much past that day's two-martini lunch...

jimHJJ(...intelligence???...)

I really don't believe conspiracy theories involving them.

[Feanor]

Right........Watch the Zapuder film!

That the Zapuder footage supports the hypothesis that Kennedy was shot from behind from the general location of Oswald? If you believe that a shot object will always be hurled in the same direction as the projectile, then you have been watching too much TV and movie fiction.

The bullet entered from behind without causing the head to pitch in either direction; the pitching of the head backwards was a reaction to the forward ejection of blood and other crainial matter.

[GMichael]

That the Zapuder footage supports the hypothesis that Kennedy was shot from behind from the general location of Oswald? If you believe that a shot object will always be hurled in the same direction as the projectile, then you have been watching too much TV and movie fiction.

The bullet entered from behind without causing the head to pitch in either direction; the pitching of the head backwards was a reaction to the forward ejection of blood and other crainial matter.

I wish I hadn't read this. Now I can't get the picture out of my head.

[Resident Loser]

I wish I hadn't read this. Now I can't get the picture out of my head.

...visiting sites that have the autopsy photos then...

jimHJJ(...yep, they're out there...)

[GMichael]

...visiting sites that have the autopsy photos then...

jimHJJ(...yep, they're out there...)

Strange, but I can look at a pic and then put it out of my head. But if I'm made to imagine an image, it stays with me longer.

[Resident Loser]

Strange, but I can look at a pic and then put it out of my head. But if I'm made to imagine an image, it stays with me longer.

...reading and radio is soooo much better than tee-vee...

jimHJJ(...we all know best our own deepest, darkest fears...)

[GMichael]

...reading and radio is soooo much better than tee-vee...

jimHJJ(...we all know best our own deepest, darkest fears...)

Gulp...

And I fell for it.

All have their charm. This day an' age people/kids like it the easy way.

[zapr]

[QUOTE=Feanor]That the Zapuder footage supports the hypothesis that Kennedy was shot from behind from the general location of Oswald? If you believe that a shot object will always be hurled in the same direction as the projectile, then you have been watching too much TV and movie fiction.

The bullet entered from behind without causing the head to pitch in either direction; the pitching of the head backwards was a reaction to the forward ejection of blood and other crainial matter.[/QUOTE There is no concrete evidence that Oswald was the shooter. To many eye witnesses, too much evidence to show otherwise.

[Feanor]

There is no concrete evidence that Oswald was the shooter. To many eye witnesses, too much evidence to show otherwise.[/quote]

Since Oswald wasn't brought to trial, we can't be certain that the evidence was sufficient to confict him. To me, he just looks like the most likely culprit and theories that he could not have do it don't seem compelling to me. The guilt of anyone else is pure conjecture.

Of course it's true that most Americans believe that there was some sort of conspiracy to murder Kennedy. That doesn't make it so. In any case, which theory does one believe?