• 09-26-2012, 07:25 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Could that just be an issue of logistics? There are nowhere near the same number of Blacks vs Whites in the US so it would appear always that whites are hired more. Just sayin....



    Look at unemployment rates among different minorities compared to whites. Also look at rates among the young looking for summer jobs. If there was no bias the unemployment rates would be the same. I am at work on my iPhone so I cannot link to the figures.

    Speaking of prejudice being gay can limit your job opportunities. The interview can be going well when all of a sudden the thought I might be gay enters their mind and all of a sudden the tone changes and the interview ends abruptly. Or I get the job and when a new manager starts and he hears the news all of a sudden I am unemployed. I have shared this before but when working at the local hospital someone was writing death threats to me. They were always on the walls of the lockerroom where we changed into our scrubs. When I reported the events to my VP I was told I could expect those things since I chose to be different. We also had a nurse that helped train new employees and she would tell male employees that I was gay. She would tell them to come to her if they had any problem with me. Always good when someone plants the seed of potential problems.
  • 09-26-2012, 07:45 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    Look at unemployment rates among different minorities compared to whites. Also look at rates among the young looking for summer jobs. If there was no bias the unemployment rates would be the same. I am at work on my iPhone so I cannot link to the figures.

    Speaking of prejudice being gay can limit your job opportunities. The interview can be going well when all of a sudden the thought I might be gay enters their mind and all of a sudden the tone changes and the interview ends abruptly. Or I get the job and when a new manager starts and he hears the news all of a sudden I am unemployed. I have shared this before but when working at the local hospital someone was writing death threats to me. They were always on the walls of the lockerroom where we changed into our scrubs. When I reported the events to my VP I was told I could expect those things since I chose to be different. We also had a nurse that helped train new employees and she would tell male employees that I was gay. She would tell them to come to her if they had any problem with me. Always good when someone plants the seed of potential problems.

    That all sucks for sure and should not be an issue.

    We hired someone a few years ago and I knew the first time I saw him. A few months later, we were all addressed by HR that this person was in the middle of a sex change and we now had to address the person as a female. They did have her use a different bathroom for the interim but after a short time used the ladies room with all the other females.

    Unfortunately, Gay is not a race issue, it is a brainwashed religious issue, which in turn is ones political view and it all just keeps snowballing (don't read anything into that please)
  • 09-26-2012, 08:21 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    That all sucks for sure and should not be an issue.

    We hired someone a few years ago and I knew the first time I saw him. A few months later, we were all addressed by HR that this person was in the middle of a sex change and we now had to address the person as a female. They did have her use a different bathroom for the interim but after a short time used the ladies room with all the other females.

    Unfortunately, Gay is not a race issue, it is a brainwashed religious issue, which in turn is ones political view and it all just keeps snowballing (don't read anything into that please)



    Just to clarify a male to female transgendered person is only considered gay if she is attracted to women. If the person identifies as female while in a male body she would be considered straight. A sad figure is that 50% of transgendered folks are either murdered or commit suicide. It is a tough struggle to transition.
  • 09-26-2012, 11:39 AM
    frenchmon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Could that just be an issue of logistics? There are nowhere near the same number of Blacks vs Whites in the US so it would appear always that whites are hired more. Just sayin....

    The biggest major factor behind blacks and higher unemployment is race...... strong evidence of bias in the work place.....research shows that black and white job candidates had been sent after the same jobs and the white candidate has been more likely to be called for an interview or offered a job. There is a documentary on Netfix...I forget the name, but it showed bias can even determine the response to resumes with an Miriam or a Rich was likely by a far number to get a call more so than a Jamal or Lakesha. Im not making this stuff up. Its out there. My wife who is black and a high ranking excutuve at a global company has to deal with "The Good old boys network" daily. She has two strikes as far as they are concerned..being black and female. The problems begain when her company purchased another company down south. When they took on their executives they had a good old boy network of older white men who could not stand the fact of a female and a black female who had power. Long story short, what ever decission she made, they opposed her. They put pressure on her to get her out of the company....the reason why we moved to the mid-west was due to my wife seeing the hand writting on the wall and deciding to transfer to a nother state before they forced her out. But luckly their ways caught up with them and they have been forced out and my wife has been asked to move back if she desires.
  • 09-26-2012, 02:34 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    The biggest major factor behind blacks and higher unemployment is race...... strong evidence of bias in the work place.....research shows that black and white job candidates had been sent after the same jobs and the white candidate has been more likely to be called for an interview or offered a job. There is a documentary on Netfix...I forget the name, but it showed bias can even determine the response to resumes with an Miriam or a Rich was likely by a far number to get a call more so than a Jamal or Lakesha. Im not making this stuff up. Its out there. My wife who is black and a high ranking excutuve at a global company has to deal with "The Good old boys network" daily. She has two strikes as far as they are concerned..being black and female. The problems begain when her company purchased another company down south. When they took on their executives they had a good old boy network of older white men who could not stand the fact of a female and a black female who had power. Long story short, what ever decission she made, they opposed her. They put pressure on her to get her out of the company....the reason why we moved to the mid-west was due to my wife seeing the hand writting on the wall and deciding to transfer to a nother state before they forced her out. But luckly their ways caught up with them and they have been forced out and my wife has been asked to move back if she desires.

    Very good post. 20/20 Also did a survey on race with similar results. If you have a race or culture specific name, you can just forget it. I even found out from my white close friend is HR that they even have codes that distinguished one race from another without a hint of doing so.

    I remember my experience in getting hired at Paramount. I was the only Hispanic when hired, and nobody wanted to work on the same dubbing stage as I did. They(white guys) thought because of my race nobody would hire me to do anything, so they did not want to work with me. Those guys were pretty surprised when my dubbing stage made three times as much money as their's did. I did not have any trouble attracting partners after that.

    I am so sorely reminded of the racial punishment Obama has had to endure. I have never seen so many racists come out of the woodwork. Racism use to be subtle, but not now.
  • 09-26-2012, 04:10 PM
    frenchmon
    Oh its still in the open. When we lived down in Carolina, there was a cross burning, and this was in 2007. There was also hate mail regarding Blacks and Hispanics (North Carolina has a very large Hispanic population) put into mail boxes. When I moved here in 2008, a year later in one of the small towns outside of St. Louis there was a KKK rally trying to get people to join. I mean they had pillow cases on their heads and the whole out fit. They where in the down town area with people standing around looking on. It was also on the news with the local news crew interviewing people who where standing around looking on in amazement. Some people where upset that it was going on....and others where laughing at those in white sheets. One girl interview said "I can't believe they are doing this...its 2009 and they are out here with sheets on their head!" She went on to say..."no body cares about that any more! That is so old school." People where angry and teen aged kids where laughing. It was comical, but sad at the same time.
  • 09-27-2012, 12:32 AM
    RGA
    I think it's better to know who the racists are - it's the subtle ones that in the end do the most damage in my view.

    I never quite get racists - for every "complaint" these dimwits tout about people of some other race you can point to a white guy who is just as bad if not worse.

    I suppose I've been fortunate where I have grown up where race was never as big an issue as in many places. Sure British Columbia has their share of racist redneck KKK wannabes but they usually live in the Bible belt of the province (funny how the racists are always clutching Bibles).

    Certainly there are racists comments that the First Nations are alcoholics, Asians can't drive etc. The stereotypes often have a grain of truth. There is higher than average alcoholism rates in FN peoples but then if someone took my kids away from me and sent them off to a white man's home and school I might get depressed and drink. One thing is a causal factor for another.

    Hitler's Nazis were brilliant at this systemic steretype creation that Jews were dirty subhuman rats. Well over a 9-10 year span you take families strip them of all their worldly possessions, home etc and stick them in a Ghetto over nearly a decade - gee suddenly your clothes are tattered, you're penniless and you can't get soap - you begin to look the stereotype while Hitler can say "see they're not like us."

    That's the key thing to all of these problems - the "they aren't like us" and being taught to FEAR anything that isn't the same. If you're not in the top 70-80% of something then you're "weird" and depending on what it is we better shoot first and ask questions later.

    The chubby person is automatically viewed as lazy, African Americans are all gangsters, Mexican Americans are lazy (and I am ignorant on this since it seems to me that these people are really screwed over and work 15 hours a day in the fields for no money - how exactly are they lazy? And the maids and servers I've had direct experience with vacationing in the U.S. all seem to be working their assess off.

    The reality is that we all make judgments about people based on all sorts of things - nurture is a tough thing to combat - media, parents, religion (or lack of one), friends, education systems, or just ignorance etc create many of those stereotypes.

    The Gay Man is making a choice to be Gay. God is anti-Gay.

    If you grow up with parents beating this into your head at age 3 to current. The town priest is telling you this - your Christian friends tell you this, your teacher let's his belief slip out the odd time in class supporting this same thing and you live in a hick town that is anti-science and just plain retarded (teaching creationism/intelligent design as a viable theory), your girlfriend also makes comments that support this then what chance in hell do you possibly have when you are 30 years old to be convinced any differently?

    You can show them evidence that a part of the brain of gay men is the same as a female which indicates 100% that if you are gay you were born that way. There is no if and or but about it.

    The problem though is that the mind of the brainwashed religious masses can't ever accept that. You see the reason is that even if they're somewhat bright people - they're faith hinges on numerous retarded fallacies of logic. God created all MANKIND (err Humankind - God wasn't much for woman or inclusion apparently) in his image then that means God created GAY men. But the religious whack-a-doodles can't accept that FACT because that would mean God deliberately created Gay men and therefore it can't be sinful.

    Rather than simply admit that the ordinary humans on earth who wrote the bible made a mistake in interpretation or lost in translation - they instead decide to stare the FACTS straight in the face and say - science is always wrong and must be the work of the devil.

    There would be less of these intolerance and race issues if there were no bibles and churches.
  • 09-27-2012, 05:20 AM
    frenchmon
    RGA...you where doing good until you got to this part:

    Quote:

    God created all MANKIND (err Humankind - God wasn't much for woman or inclusion apparently) in his image then that means God created GAY men. But the religious whack-a-doodles can't accept that FACT because that would mean God deliberately created Gay men and therefore it can't be sinful.

    Rather than simply admit that the ordinary humans on earth who wrote the bible made a mistake in interpretation or lost in translation - they instead decide to stare the FACTS straight in the face and say - science is always wrong and must be the work of the devil.

    There would be less of these intolerance and race issues if there were no bibles and churches.
    I dont agree with any thing in that quote. Don't know if this is the place to talk religion though.
  • 09-27-2012, 06:18 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    RGA...you where doing good until you got to this part:



    I dont agree with any thing in that quote. Don't know if this is the place to talk religion though.



    What part do you not agree? If you believe god made us all then god made me as I am. I am hoping you do not think it is a choice. As far as bibles are concerned there are mistranslations. Theological scholars consider the King James version to have the greatest number of errors.
  • 09-27-2012, 07:01 AM
    Feanor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    RGA...you where doing good until you got to this part:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    ...
    There would be less of these intolerance and race issues if there were no bibles and churches.

    I dont agree with any thing in that quote. Don't know if this is the place to talk religion though.

    When I was young, (long ago), it was considered impolite to raise discussion of either religion OR politics. This is still a great rule if you want to harmony & blissful relations. It isn't such a great rule if you what to get to bottom of what's wrong with the world. When I hear religionists suggest we shouldn't discuss religion, I hear a "No Contest" plea.

    The fact is that homosexual actions are strongly condemned in the Old Testament. (Sorry, that isn't a fact you can twist.) Same for Orthodox Judaism today. The New Testament seems to condemn male & female homosexual practices in several places, although some references are debatable. It's interesting, though, that two must significant characters there, Jesus and Paul, were unmarried Jew and it was very exceptional for a Jew to be unmarried by age 30 -- but that might not mean anything, eh?. It's also noteworthy that Paul was a more that bit of a misogynist.

    Where Mitt the Chameleon is concerned, I note the LDS Church was historically considered Blacks & Gays condemned of God, but favor plural marriage, i.e. 1 man + 1 or more women but not the other way around.
  • 09-27-2012, 08:40 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor View Post

    The fact is that homosexual actions are strongly condemned in the Old Testament. (Sorry, that isn't a fact you can twist.) Same for Orthodox Judaism today. The New Testament seems to condemn male & female homosexual practices in several places, although some references are debatable. It's interesting, though, that two must significant characters there, Jesus and Paul, were unmarried Jew and it was very exceptional for a Jew to be unmarried by age 30 -- but that might not mean anything, eh?. It's also noteworthy that Paul was a more that bit of a misogynist.


    The old story of Sodom and Gamorrah is one that is now considered to be in error. It used to be taught that the cities were destroyed due to sexual practice. Now it is thought that a messenger of god was rejected and killed and that was the reason for the destruction.

    The old testament is jewish law and history. Many of the laws regarding sexual practice were to continue the race and faith. That is why birth control, masturbation and any sex act not for reproduction were against the law.

    I follow what Jesus said about homosexuality. Oh wait he never spoke on the matter.
  • 09-27-2012, 08:57 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post

    I follow what Jesus said about homosexuality. Oh wait he never spoke on the matter.

    Even if he did speak about it, it would have been edited out just like all the other stuff they changed to make it the greatest story ever told.
  • 09-27-2012, 09:20 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Even if he did speak about it, it would have been edited out just like all the other stuff they changed to make it the greatest story ever told.



    I find it interesting to read Gospels that were not chosen to be in the bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls are quite interesting for the information they contain. The scrolls tell a slightly different story. I have always enjoyed biblical history even though I am not a believer. The TV shows I enjoy are the ones who try to find out what really happened such as Noah and his Ark. I think there is a lot of hyperbole in the bible. I do agree with what Jesus taught and try to follow his example. I find I do not need church or religion to live that way.
  • 09-27-2012, 09:46 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    I find it interesting to read Gospels that were not chosen to be in the bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls are quite interesting for the information they contain. The scrolls tell a slightly different story. I have always enjoyed biblical history even though I am not a believer. The TV shows I enjoy are the ones who try to find out what really happened such as Noah and his Ark. I think there is a lot of hyperbole in the bible. I do agree with what Jesus taught and try to follow his example. I find I do not need church or religion to live that way.

    I have the book of the scrolls. They also contain books that ARE in the Bible but are written way differently than how they were edited for inclusion into the bible.

    It was all manipulated to read the way it does as a basis for controlling the masses and all the made up rituals and beliefs.
  • 09-27-2012, 10:26 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    I have the book of the scrolls. They also contain books that ARE in the Bible but are written way differently than how they were edited for inclusion into the bible.

    It was all manipulated to read the way it does as a basis for controlling the masses and all the made up rituals and beliefs.


    We are in agreement. If I had to pick a favorite miracle from the bible it is the changing of water into wine. I hope a little bit every time I turn on the cold water.
  • 09-27-2012, 10:36 AM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    We are in agreement. If I had to pick a favorite miracle from the bible it is the changing of water into wine. I hope a little bit every time I turn on the cold water.

    That is a funny one, the whole deal is that when wine was stored in the containers, it leached into the porous material. When they added water into the containers, some of the wine and sediments leached back out into the water and they called it wine. It was no miracle, just what would normally happen anytime you add water to a container that is porous and previously contained something else.
  • 09-27-2012, 11:25 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    That is a funny one, the whole deal is that when wine was stored in the containers, it leached into the porous material. When they added water into the containers, some of the wine and sediments leached back out into the water and they called it wine. It was no miracle, just what would normally happen anytime you add water to a container that is porous and previously contained something else.


    I find it interesting to learn what happened before men exaggerated it. In all fairness they may not have understood what happened but I always doubted that water turned instantly into wine. When he fed the masses with loaves and fishes were the fish smoked or did they eat sushi?
  • 09-27-2012, 12:03 PM
    Feanor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    The old story of Sodom and Gamorrah is one that is now considered to be in error. It used to be taught that the cities were destroyed due to sexual practice. Now it is thought that a messenger of god was rejected and killed and that was the reason for the destruction.

    The old testament is jewish law and history. Many of the laws regarding sexual practice were to continue the race and faith. That is why birth control, masturbation and any sex act not for reproduction were against the law.

    I follow what Jesus said about homosexuality. Oh wait he never spoke on the matter.

    That's right, in the canonical gospels Jesus said nothing in his own words that can be reasonably construed as against homosexuality. Principally it was Paul who condemned it in Romans I.

    As a non-believer, the only moral injunction from the Bible I consider compelling is, "Do to (or for) others what you would have them do to (or for) you". This covers a lot of ground and isn't specific as to gender or sexual preference.
  • 09-27-2012, 01:00 PM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    That's right, in the canonical gospels Jesus said nothing in his own words that can be reasonably construed as against homosexuality. Principally it was Paul who condemned it in Romans I.

    As a non-believer, the only moral injunction from the Bible I consider compelling is, "Do to (or for) others what you would have them do to (or for) you". This covers a lot of ground and isn't specific as to gender or sexual preference.



    I agree we should all follow Luke 6:31. Life would be better for all.
  • 09-27-2012, 01:52 PM
    frenchmon
    1) God created all MANKIND (err Humankind - God wasn't much for woman or inclusion apparently)

    It appears you are saying God was not for a woman.

    2) that means God created GAY men.

    You attribute to God something thats not true.

    3) But the religious whack-a-doodles can't accept that FACT because that would mean God deliberately created Gay men and therefore it can't be sinful.

    You fail to see every one on this planet is sinful...straight and gay.

    4)Rather than simply admit that the ordinary humans on earth who wrote the bible made a mistake in interpretation or lost in translation - they instead decide to stare the FACTS straight in the face and say - science is always wrong and must be the work of the devil.

    This last remark is totally stupid...you dont even realise what you are saying.
    __________________
  • 09-27-2012, 01:55 PM
    frenchmon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    What part do you not agree? If you believe god made us all then god made me as I am. I am hoping you do not think it is a choice. As far as bibles are concerned there are mistranslations. Theological scholars consider the King od James version to have the greatest number of errors.

    JM...when you say God made you as you are...what do you mean by that?
  • 09-27-2012, 06:00 PM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    I find it interesting to learn what happened before men exaggerated it. In all fairness they may not have understood what happened but I always doubted that water turned instantly into wine. When he fed the masses with loaves and fishes were the fish smoked or did they eat sushi?

    Again it is all correspondences. Every sect had their own code or way of saying something which had another meaning or correspondence.

    What more than likely is the meaning is that they were taught to fish and bake bread and take care of themselves; more so than someone walked up and down the line of masses handing out a smelly fish and stale loaf of bread in one day.
  • 09-27-2012, 06:02 PM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    JM...when you say God made you as you are...what do you mean by that?



    If you believe we are children of god then as a child of god I am as he intended. He gave me the gift of loving a man instead of a woaman. My desires are a natural part of me as are yours. You could no more change than I could. We are as god intended us or we are biology in all it's wonderful variations.
  • 09-27-2012, 06:06 PM
    Hyfi
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    JM...when you say God made you as you are...what do you mean by that?

    do you really have to ask that?

    Many people are born wired differently than the masses and there is not much they can do about it but attempt to live with it amongst people who blame them for the wiring they got from God, if that is what one believes.

    Do you realize that many children are born with both sets of gear and many times the parents make the wrong choice.
  • 09-27-2012, 06:07 PM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Again it is all correspondences. Every sect had their own code or way of saying something which had another meaning or correspondence.

    What more than likely is the meaning is that they were taught to fish and bake bread and take care of themselves; more so than someone walked up and down the line of masses handing out a smelly fish and stale loaf of bread in one day.



    I know the bible is full of symbolism such as the numbers 7 and 40. In my readings I have never been a bible literalist.