If Romney gets in which country will America start a war with next?

[frenchmon]

RGA...you where doing good until you got to this part:

God created all MANKIND (err Humankind - God wasn't much for woman or inclusion apparently) in his image then that means God created GAY men. But the religious whack-a-doodles can't accept that FACT because that would mean God deliberately created Gay men and therefore it can't be sinful.

Rather than simply admit that the ordinary humans on earth who wrote the bible made a mistake in interpretation or lost in translation - they instead decide to stare the FACTS straight in the face and say - science is always wrong and must be the work of the devil.

There would be less of these intolerance and race issues if there were no bibles and churches.

I dont agree with any thing in that quote. Don't know if this is the place to talk religion though.

[JohnMichael]

RGA...you where doing good until you got to this part:



I dont agree with any thing in that quote. Don't know if this is the place to talk religion though.

What part do you not agree? If you believe god made us all then god made me as I am. I am hoping you do not think it is a choice. As far as bibles are concerned there are mistranslations. Theological scholars consider the King James version to have the greatest number of errors.

[frenchmon]

What part do you not agree? If you believe god made us all then god made me as I am. I am hoping you do not think it is a choice. As far as bibles are concerned there are mistranslations. Theological scholars consider the King od James version to have the greatest number of errors.

JM...when you say God made you as you are...what do you mean by that?

[JohnMichael]

JM...when you say God made you as you are...what do you mean by that?

If you believe we are children of god then as a child of god I am as he intended. He gave me the gift of loving a man instead of a woaman. My desires are a natural part of me as are yours. You could no more change than I could. We are as god intended us or we are biology in all it's wonderful variations.

[frenchmon]

If you believe we are children of god then as a child of god I am as he intended. He gave me the gift of loving a man instead of a woaman. My desires are a natural part of me as are yours. You could no more change than I could. We are as god intended us or we are biology in all it's wonderful variations.

I would rather not get into this with you JM...or any of you guys. I have tons of respect for you guys. We see things differently on this subject.

JM...where does the bible say we are all children of God?
where the heathens in the OT children of God? I think not. So I don't think we are all His children.

Now the bible tells us God made Adam and Eve perfect . From my understanding they where the only two. After the fall we are all missing the mark.

So what you like men....who cares, I certainly don't, and I still like you as an audio fiend. It was God who helped me get over my hatred for gay men. I once escaped a man as a young lad 6 years old who tried to molest me, and as an young adult, I was once in a high speed car chase....a car full of gay guys back in the 80's where after me and I had the peddle to the metal. So I built up hatred for gays. Until God helped me see that all gays are not alike.

I would not say God gave you the desire to love men. I have no doubt that if you say you where born that way, then you where born that way. I know other gays who say they where born that way as well. I also know guys who where molested for years and turned out that way.

I don't think the bible teaches God made anything perfect beyound creation. I believe your desires are natural.. Ever sense the fall things have been evolving to what it is today. God planted perfect seed in Adam and things happen. After the fall is when imperfection came.

If you are a believer in the God of Abraham, Moses and Israel, then you understand that God does not intend to leave any of his people in our now conditions....the bible paints a different picture.

[JohnMichael]

So what you like men....who cares, I certainly don't, and I still like you as an audio fiend. It was God who helped me get over my hatred for gay men. I once escaped a man as a young lad 6 years old who tried to molest me, and as an young adult, I was once in a high speed car chase....a car full of gay guys back in the 80's where after me and I had the peddle to the metal. So I built up hatred for gays. Until God helped me see that all gays are not alike.

I would not say God gave you the desire to love men. I have no doubt that if you say you where born that way, then you where born that way. I know other gays who say they where born that way as well. I also know guys who where molested for years and turned out that way.

I am sorry to hear a pedophile not a gay man tried to molest you when you were 6. Peophillia is considered abnormal behavior caused by the abuser's early abuse. The damage to the normal development of the person is what causes someone to become a pedophile. The fact that he was the same sex as you does not make him gay since many pedophiles molest children based more on availability than on orientation. Studies have shown that 93% of pedophiles are heterosexual. Pedophiles are created and gay men are born that way.

I am also sorry to hear you were chased by a car full of gay men. I live in a small city surrounded by a very rural area and each night leaving the bar I had to drive like hell to get away from a car full of haters. I always drove small cars so I could navigate the back alleys and areas where their pick-up trucks and large cars did not do as well. When I think of all that was done to me I could easily develop a hate for straight men. As it is I need only be leery of them.

[Hyfi]

JM...when you say God made you as you are...what do you mean by that?

do you really have to ask that?

Many people are born wired differently than the masses and there is not much they can do about it but attempt to live with it amongst people who blame them for the wiring they got from God, if that is what one believes.

Do you realize that many children are born with both sets of gear and many times the parents make the wrong choice.

[Feanor]

RGA...you where doing good until you got to this part:

...
There would be less of these intolerance and race issues if there were no bibles and churches.

I dont agree with any thing in that quote. Don't know if this is the place to talk religion though.

When I was young, (long ago), it was considered impolite to raise discussion of either religion OR politics. This is still a great rule if you want to harmony & blissful relations. It isn't such a great rule if you what to get to bottom of what's wrong with the world. When I hear religionists suggest we shouldn't discuss religion, I hear a "No Contest" plea.

The fact is that homosexual actions are strongly condemned in the Old Testament. (Sorry, that isn't a fact you can twist.) Same for Orthodox Judaism today. The New Testament seems to condemn male & female homosexual practices in several places, although some references are debatable. It's interesting, though, that two must significant characters there, Jesus and Paul, were unmarried Jew and it was very exceptional for a Jew to be unmarried by age 30 -- but that might not mean anything, eh?. It's also noteworthy that Paul was a more that bit of a misogynist.

Where Mitt the Chameleon is concerned, I note the LDS Church was historically considered Blacks & Gays condemned of God, but favor plural marriage, i.e. 1 man + 1 or more women but not the other way around.

[JohnMichael]

The fact is that homosexual actions are strongly condemned in the Old Testament. (Sorry, that isn't a fact you can twist.) Same for Orthodox Judaism today. The New Testament seems to condemn male & female homosexual practices in several places, although some references are debatable. It's interesting, though, that two must significant characters there, Jesus and Paul, were unmarried Jew and it was very exceptional for a Jew to be unmarried by age 30 -- but that might not mean anything, eh?. It's also noteworthy that Paul was a more that bit of a misogynist.

The old story of Sodom and Gamorrah is one that is now considered to be in error. It used to be taught that the cities were destroyed due to sexual practice. Now it is thought that a messenger of god was rejected and killed and that was the reason for the destruction.

The old testament is jewish law and history. Many of the laws regarding sexual practice were to continue the race and faith. That is why birth control, masturbation and any sex act not for reproduction were against the law.

I follow what Jesus said about homosexuality. Oh wait he never spoke on the matter.

[Hyfi]

I follow what Jesus said about homosexuality. Oh wait he never spoke on the matter.

Even if he did speak about it, it would have been edited out just like all the other stuff they changed to make it the greatest story ever told.

[JohnMichael]

Even if he did speak about it, it would have been edited out just like all the other stuff they changed to make it the greatest story ever told.

I find it interesting to read Gospels that were not chosen to be in the bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls are quite interesting for the information they contain. The scrolls tell a slightly different story. I have always enjoyed biblical history even though I am not a believer. The TV shows I enjoy are the ones who try to find out what really happened such as Noah and his Ark. I think there is a lot of hyperbole in the bible. I do agree with what Jesus taught and try to follow his example. I find I do not need church or religion to live that way.

[Hyfi]

I find it interesting to read Gospels that were not chosen to be in the bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls are quite interesting for the information they contain. The scrolls tell a slightly different story. I have always enjoyed biblical history even though I am not a believer. The TV shows I enjoy are the ones who try to find out what really happened such as Noah and his Ark. I think there is a lot of hyperbole in the bible. I do agree with what Jesus taught and try to follow his example. I find I do not need church or religion to live that way.

I have the book of the scrolls. They also contain books that ARE in the Bible but are written way differently than how they were edited for inclusion into the bible.

It was all manipulated to read the way it does as a basis for controlling the masses and all the made up rituals and beliefs.

[JohnMichael]

I have the book of the scrolls. They also contain books that ARE in the Bible but are written way differently than how they were edited for inclusion into the bible.

It was all manipulated to read the way it does as a basis for controlling the masses and all the made up rituals and beliefs.

We are in agreement. If I had to pick a favorite miracle from the bible it is the changing of water into wine. I hope a little bit every time I turn on the cold water.

[Feanor]

The old story of Sodom and Gamorrah is one that is now considered to be in error. It used to be taught that the cities were destroyed due to sexual practice. Now it is thought that a messenger of god was rejected and killed and that was the reason for the destruction.

The old testament is jewish law and history. Many of the laws regarding sexual practice were to continue the race and faith. That is why birth control, masturbation and any sex act not for reproduction were against the law.

I follow what Jesus said about homosexuality. Oh wait he never spoke on the matter.

That's right, in the canonical gospels Jesus said nothing in his own words that can be reasonably construed as against homosexuality. Principally it was Paul who condemned it in Romans I.

As a non-believer, the only moral injunction from the Bible I consider compelling is, "Do to (or for) others what you would have them do to (or for) you". This covers a lot of ground and isn't specific as to gender or sexual preference.

[JohnMichael]

That's right, in the canonical gospels Jesus said nothing in his own words that can be reasonably construed as against homosexuality. Principally it was Paul who condemned it in Romans I.

As a non-believer, the only moral injunction from the Bible I consider compelling is, "Do to (or for) others what you would have them do to (or for) you". This covers a lot of ground and isn't specific as to gender or sexual preference.

I agree we should all follow Luke 6:31. Life would be better for all.