Rocket or Swan or Axiom??

[Nich]

I am buying my towers in two weeks time. I've narrowed it down to Swan 5.1; Rocket RS550 or Axiom M60ti. There is no dealer where I live for any of these companies. I am just reading the reviews online; and so far Axiom has the best rep and reviews. Can anyone help me out? My budget is $1100.00

Thanks.

[This Guy]

Did you look at any other speakers that you CAN hear? Cause if you buy speakers online, you may not like them, then you'll tell yourself to give them a chance and convince yourslef you like them and just needed to be broken in. That's how these online companies work. So all i'm saying is see what else is out there before you make your purchase.

-Joey

[Woochifer]

I'm with TG on this. ALL of your choices are direct sellers that you can't audition without actually buying them first. The thing about these internet-only brands is that they tend to get more hyped on boards like this one than other brands, and it tends to go in cycles. Two years ago, all you heard about was the Swan Divas and nOhrs, now it's Ascend, Rocket, and Axiom that get a lot of run. Speakers are by far the most subjective purchase you can make, and often it just boils down to preference. Without hearing a lot of speakers, you can't really judge for yourself the type of sound that's available out there and what you're looking for. And never go with speakers based on reviews alone. A lot of highly rated speakers out there are not as favorable with me based on what I listen to and my personal preferences.

Ultimately, you very well might be choosing from the brands that you listed, but without a decent basis of comparison, you're going at it blind. Do yourself a favor, round up some of your favorite discs and hit up some local audio stores. Give them your price range, and see what's out there.

BTW, why do you need to buy something within two weeks? Unless you got a store credit with an expiration, you should take all the time you need for this process. It took me about two months of constant listening, comparing, and home demos before I decided on my speakers.

[Nich]

I'm with TG on this. ALL of your choices are direct sellers that you can't audition without actually buying them first. The thing about these internet-only brands is that they tend to get more hyped on boards like this one than other brands, and it tends to go in cycles. Two years ago, all you heard about was the Swan Divas and nOhrs, now it's Ascend, Rocket, and Axiom that get a lot of run. Speakers are by far the most subjective purchase you can make, and often it just boils down to preference. Without hearing a lot of speakers, you can't really judge for yourself the type of sound that's available out there and what you're looking for. And never go with speakers based on reviews alone. A lot of highly rated speakers out there are not as favorable with me based on what I listen to and my personal preferences.

Ultimately, you very well might be choosing from the brands that you listed, but without a decent basis of comparison, you're going at it blind. Do yourself a favor, round up some of your favorite discs and hit up some local audio stores. Give them your price range, and see what's out there.

BTW, why do you need to buy something within two weeks? Unless you got a store credit with an expiration, you should take all the time you need for this process. It took me about two months of constant listening, comparing, and home demos before I decided on my speakers.

Sorry; I should went into detail about my situation. I've been looking around for the last 2 months. I looked at the Paradigm Monitors, Klipsch RF, Definitive BiPolars, Totem Staff & Hawk. I like the Totem Hawks out of all of them but way too much for me interms of price. The Klipsch horns are too bright for my liking. The Paradigm Monitors are clear but didn't like the midrange. Definitive was nice and well built but also expensive.

[Jon Lane]

If I may jump in here, FWIW, we encounter unsatisfied buyers less than 1% of the time. Last year we took back one pair of Swan HT speakers (no free brackets in the box) and 2 prs multimedia speakers (not big enough for HT.)

Apparently the direct formula works well. This kind of success ratio is unusual even for audition-before-you-buy brands.

One of the great things about Internet-direct -- aside from the savings -- is the camaraderie: Thousands if not tens of thousands of posts and comments about personal experiences are available for anyone to research and glean useful data and perspectives from. B&M brands can't always boast these kinds of numbers. What makes the Internet brand successful -- whether Axiom, Aperion, Ascend, Rocket, or Swan and others -- is that we HAVE to perform in the most severe public eye of them all. Right here.

Thanks,

Jon Lane
The Audio Insider.com

[Woochifer]

Sorry; I should went into detail about my situation. I've been looking around for the last 2 months. I looked at the Paradigm Monitors, Klipsch RF, Definitive BiPolars, Totem Staff & Hawk. I like the Totem Hawks out of all of them but way too much for me interms of price. The Klipsch horns are too bright for my liking. The Paradigm Monitors are clear but didn't like the midrange. Definitive was nice and well built but also expensive.

Is that $1,100 budget for a pair, or for five speakers? It seems that you're limiting yourself to floorstanders, but you should expand your list to include standmounts because floorstanders in this price range generally have issues with box resonance. I started my speaker search a few years ago the exact same way, and decided to go with standmounts after several disappointing auditions with tower speakers. And if you plan to eventually add a subwoofer and let a HT receiver handle the bass management, you're basically paying for unused capacity by going with floorstanding tower speakers.


If you're okay with a decent standmount, you should try out the Paradigm Studio 20 v.3, which lists for $800 a pair and has amazing imaging and a big sound for the price. Also, B&W has discontinued its CDM line, so you should be able to find a pair of the CDM1NTs for well under its previous $1,200 list price. Energy, Boston, PSB, and Dynaudio are other brands that you should take for a listen. Make sure that you try them out at home before buying (most dealers will let you borrow them for home audition) so you can assess how they mate with your room acoustics and if your amp can comfortably drive them.

[Woochifer]

If I may jump in here, FWIW, we encounter unsatisfied buyers less than 1% of the time. Last year we took back one pair of Swan HT speakers (no free brackets in the box) and 2 prs multimedia speakers (not big enough for HT.)

Apparently the direct formula works well. This kind of success ratio is unusual even for audition-before-you-buy brands.

One of the great things about Internet-direct -- aside from the savings -- is the camaraderie: Thousands if not tens of thousands of posts and comments about personal experiences are available for anyone to research and glean useful data and perspectives from. B&M brands can't always boast these kinds of numbers. What makes the Internet brand successful -- whether Axiom, Aperion, Ascend, Rocket, or Swan and others -- is that we HAVE to perform in the most severe public eye of them all. Right here.

Thanks,

Jon Lane
The Audio Insider.com

With all due respect, the internet-direct model does work, but it's also got its own set of drawbacks and risks. The low return rate could also have a lot to do with the high hurdle involved in returning a pair of speakers, and the biases that crop up in the comparison process. Even with these money-back guarantees, the customer still has to pay the return shipping. And in order to try the speakers, they have to buy them up front. In direct cmparisons, this obviously puts the internet-direct model in an advantageous position. Auditioning speakers sold through a local B&M store is often as simple as borrowing a set of demo units. Comparing them against a set of internet-direct speakers that the customer already paid for and has to ship back on their own dime if they opt for the B&M speakers is hardly a level playing field or unbiased comparison.

And the comraderie that you speak of can sometimes be interpreted as just a lot of noise and hype. If anything, on this and other boards, the supporters of internet-direct speakers face a more skeptical audience precisely because those speakers cannot be auditioned in stores in a simple process of elimination prior to purchase. So, often the response is to hype up the speakers to almost obnoxiously hyperbolic levels. People who recommend B&M brands can address skeptics by directing them to a local dealer and letting the speakers speak for themselves. And from what I've seen, there is a sort of flavor-of-the-month cycle to the internet-direct brands that get touted. Two years ago, it was Swan Diva and nOhr, now it's all about Ascend, Axiom, and Rocket. I'm not trying to cast a broad brush on all of these brands and their purchasers, but I just think that there are two sides to the scenario that you're putting forth, neither of which is ideal. Keep in mind that I have bought internet-direct before, but I went into that purchase fully aware that it was a risk having never heard the unit before buying. Even though I am happy with the purchase, I'm not about to proclaim that comparable B&M options are inferior because frankly I don't have enough info to make that kind of conclusion.

[Bryan]

Basically it comes down to if a person is or isn't comfortable ordering something over the net, be it a speaker that is available locally, such as the JBL E20, or one that isn't, such as the nOrh 4.0. For auditioning purposes, you may use Audio Envy or one of the forums to see if anyone in your locale has the speakers and would be willing to let you audition them. The good thing about internet only brands is they are required to put out quality products along with excellent customer service. If they don't and a person has a problem it will spread like wildfire over the net, possibly forcing the company out of business. They will not chance that happening.

Definately do your homework before purchasing the product. Take the time to get to know the people who own them and what they are like and their taste in music/HT. Get to know the owners of the company. See what problems people have experienced and how they were resolved. Remember, time is on your side.

[Debbi]

interested as have been looking at both for bookshelves...also continue to let us know when they have sales....looked at the onix 150s a couple of mos ago at 299 and should have bought them...

[Bryan]

TinHere has heard, I believe, both the Swans and Rockets. He preferred the Rockets. Not sure of the Axioms though they seem to be well received. If I were in the market for speakers now I'd probably go with the Rockets. (Don't be fooled by this. I am perfectly happy with my nOrhs. When I can afford to upgrade it'll probably be to VMPS.)

[Jon Lane]

With all due respect, the internet-direct model does work, but it's also got its own set of drawbacks and risks. The low return rate could also have a lot to do with the high hurdle involved in returning a pair of speakers, and the biases that crop up in the comparison process.

The feedback we get tells us the nearly-nil return rate has to do with the extreme value, nothing more or less. Occasionally I even guarantee freight, which takes that risk out of the equation.

Auditioning speakers sold through a local B&M store is often as simple as borrowing a set of demo units. Comparing them against a set of internet-direct speakers that the customer already paid for and has to ship back on their own dime if they opt for the B&M speakers is hardly a level playing field or unbiased comparison.

I don't agree: In my couple decades experience with B&M, I found "borrowing" from the local dealer typically involves purchasing and transporting, then unboxing and setting up...with the reverse necessary when you return them. It's actually a greater task than guaranteed-via-Internet!

And the comraderie that you speak of can sometimes be interpreted as just a lot of noise and hype. If anything, on this and other boards, the supporters of internet-direct speakers face a more skeptical audience precisely because those speakers cannot be auditioned in stores in a simple process of elimination prior to purchase. So, often the response is to hype up the speakers to almost obnoxiously hyperbolic levels.

I agree that brands sold direct, despite potentially costing up to half what they would in stores, can still get mired in an almost cultish following -- but ours (since it's been named here) is a stable, long-term product, and certainly we don't engage in the sort of emotional subscription you're referring to. We like to think we're offering solid, ongoing value and solid support.

And from what I've seen, there is a sort of flavor-of-the-month cycle to the internet-direct brands that get touted. Two years ago, it was Swan Diva and nOhr, now it's all about Ascend, Axiom, and Rocket.

Well, Swan remains a value leader and we're not pounding the boards (this post excepted ) It's precisely because our users are opposed to the flavor-of-the-month cycle that they keep coming back, four very succesful years later.

We're glad your own Internet-direct purchases worked out. And we respect your opinions of some of the relatively minor considerations every potential buyer should make when considering this special model.

Jon Lane
The Audio Insider.com

[3db]

And Paradigm or B&W doesn't have a cult following?? Please!! I've read more reviews on Axiom than I care too and they are alwaysd postive with glowing remarks. The axiom Mt60's just got reviewed by the following. Besides, whats wrong with saving some hard earned money by going thru internet vs paying a middle man some dollars to demonstrate speakers for you? What about PSB? Have you tried them, as I did not see them on your list?

Here are the latest reviews on the Mt60;

http://www.goodsound.com/equipment.shtml
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...rs-3-2004.html

[Woochifer]

The feedback we get tells us the nearly-nil return rate has to do with the extreme value, nothing more or less. Occasionally I even guarantee freight, which takes that risk out of the equation.

And the operative word there is "occasionally" and the fact that the shipping charges are part of the equation most other times, then it constitutes a higher hurdle for the consumer if they decide to return something, versus the typical return policies at B&M stores. If I decided that I did not like my internet-direct subwoofer or found some reason to return it, it would have entailed $80 in shipping charges. That's irrecoverable out-of-pocket expense that I would absorbed just to get an audition.

I don't agree: In my couple decades experience with B&M, I found "borrowing" from the local dealer typically involves purchasing and transporting, then unboxing and setting up...with the reverse necessary when you return them. It's actually a greater task than guaranteed-via-Internet!

Well your decades of experience do not correspond to how the dealers in my area operate. All of the dealers where I shopped encouraged me to take the speakers home. I simply lined the trunk of my car and loaded the demo units off their showroom floor. After doing my home comparisons, I simply returned them to the dealers. No boxing, no unpacking, no upfront charges.

To me, the greater task is having to PURCHASE the speakers up front just to get a listen to them. That entails risk, and if the customer's willing to do that for potentially greater reward, then it's their choice. But, it's hardly the win-win situation that you portray.

I agree that brands sold direct, despite potentially costing up to half what they would in stores, can still get mired in an almost cultish following -- but ours (since it's been named here) is a stable, long-term product, and certainly we don't engage in the sort of emotional subscription you're referring to. We like to think we're offering solid, ongoing value and solid support.

The cultish behavior that I was referring to was actually the customers, who can get carried away at times.

But, if you're calling the Swans a "stable, long-term product" -- how long have you been distributing them? If I recall, av123.com originally distributed them, and then I did not see the Swans on the market for about a year. It's nice that your company carries them, and I'm all for more choices in the market, but even four years is not a lengthy history or legacy.

[Woochifer]

And Paradigm or B&W doesn't have a cult following?? Please!! I've read more reviews on Axiom than I care too and they are alwaysd postive with glowing remarks. The axiom Mt60's just got reviewed by the following. Besides, whats wrong with saving some hard earned money by going thru internet vs paying a middle man some dollars to demonstrate speakers for you? What about PSB? Have you tried them, as I did not see them on your list?

Here are the latest reviews on the Mt60;

http://www.goodsound.com/equipment.shtml
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...rs-3-2004.html

Yeah, but the difference is that with Paradigm or B&W, someone who wants proof that they are as good as advertised or hyped just has to go to a local dealer and listen to them. I might like the Axioms, I might not like the Axioms, the problem is that if I want to try them out, I have to either know somebody who owns them or I have to BUY them just to listen to them. And if I decide that I want to compare the Axioms, Rockets, Ascends, and Swans based on stuff that I read about them, then I'd have to buy all of them, pay shipping charges on all of them, and then pay the return shipping on the three sets that I decide to return.

And going on the basis of reviews is another area where the internet-direct brands have a built-in advantage. Why? Because nearly all of the reviews are written by people who OWN them, and owners are not exactly an unbiased source. With a Paradigm or B&W, anybody who's heard them in a store can post a review, including people who've heard them and don't like them. And it's not like reviews are going to necessarily correlate with everyone's individual tastes, since speakers preferences are so subjective.

Nothing wrong with saving money by going internet-direct, but at the same time if you're looking to try out several different models, those upfront costs can add up in a hurry. In my example, I bought an Adire Rava subwoofer. I knew going into that purchase that I was taking a risk. If I did not like it, $80 goes out the window. It's potentially rewarding, but you cannot deny that there is a higher risk with any mail order direct speaker. When I was looking for main speakers, I auditioned about 35 different models. No way I would have been able to cover that kind of territory if I had decided to go the internet-direct route.

[kexodusc]

Gotta agree with Wooch,here. I foolishly bought some M3Ti's from Axiom (see my review from December on this site). I was only looking for a set of speakers for my dining room upstairs, but I broke the cardinal rule of audio equipment: DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!!! Listen to them for yourself. They aren't bad, but I could have done better buying from a local retailer.

Certainly, one should expect that a confident and reliable distributor/retailer would have both the confidence and the integrity to provide a money back guarantee, without the direct deterrent that shipping costs are.
If one's budget for speakers was $500, and the on-line retail speakers didn't live up to expectations, after 60-80 dollars extra spent for return shipping, the poor person's new budget is now only $420. It's more than reasonable to think that the extra expense and reduced budget would make anyone think twice about returning speakers.

Finally, the idea of online retailers selling at huge discounts is often over embellished. Prices are set by any business to maximize revenues, and generally are a function of market demand. Eliminating the middle man, in this case local retailers, and any secondary "mark-ups" that may be applied to a product does not impact this equation at all. Rather it eliminates the need for profit sharing between the manufacturer and the distributors/retailers. Hardly an "added value" for consumers.
Though I have no doubt that some internet-direct products are full value for the money, buying internet-direct is considerably riskier.

[psonic]

generally speaking, when you look through the online reviews of online speakers such as axiom nohr swan rocket, etc. you find great, glowing reviews, you also find that the speakers are run by a receiver 9/10 times and in a home theater setup. So everything is relative in this game, those who listen to music through a receiver may not care about listening to the best, musical speakers out there in hifi shops, they probably just want a good value. I can bet you there's very very few who are running a good $400+ cd player and $800+ separates or integrated amp with internet speakers. Why? You can't compare them next to the best...all you have to go on is online talk, mostly by entry level home theater guys who run a receiver for music, and did not audition the top speakers as a measuring stick. I could see going to another owners for an in home audition, but at these prices you can get some great standmounts and very good used or demo towers. No offense to the home theater guys, but they have different demands than a musical speaker. For example, the $995 Monitor Audio Silver 6b was just as boomy down low as a Paradigm monitor 7. It would probably be fantastic in home theater, but with my reference CDs they were untolerable after a few minutes of hearing box resonances and loose booming bass - nothing close to musical.

Nich, I also like the sound of the Totems, as I just finished extensive auditioning. If you like them you should audition Dynaudio Audience 62 and possibly Vienna acoustics bach, they are very similar to the Totems in quality of sound at around $1k new, but much less on audiogon. For less money, Kef Q5 and Energy C5 were very good as well. The C5 can be had online for less than the Axiom m60! And you can go audition it! I just bought a pair of Dynaudio 60 floorstanders for $600! There are deals out there on the "known" top speakers that have a quality of sound rivaling those Totems!

Take your time with this...

[46minaudio]

I reckon Ill throw my 2 cents..Some may remember the Norh days 2 years ago..They were hyped to be the best speaker ever..ANything negitive said about them was countered with the word troll..The words they blow B&M speaker A away,B&M speaker a is not in the same league,and all grades of other crap..I always ?ed these coments and was acused as being a troll...So I bought a pair of 4.0s and compared them to my lowly B&M studio 20v2s.I prefered the 20s.There was none of this blown away..If one visits the internet direct formuns most of these coments that compare Internet direct speaker A to B&M speaker A are not even in the same room.Even worst I have read where they were compared months apart...When reading these reviews one really needs to ask the reviewer if they were compared in the same room at the same time driven by the same amp.Anything else should be taken with a grain of salt..FWIW I still have the 4.0s and dont plan on getting rid of them.They are a fine speaker ,sound great for the price ,and fit the decor of a room perfect.The words blownaway were all hype IMO though..The looks of some of these internet direct products look fantastic second to none for the price paid...

[thepogue]

And Paradigm or B&W doesn't have a cult following?? Please!! I've read more reviews on Axiom than I care too and they are alwaysd postive with glowing remarks. The axiom Mt60's just got reviewed by the following. Besides, whats wrong with saving some hard earned money by going thru internet vs paying a middle man some dollars to demonstrate speakers for you? What about PSB? Have you tried them, as I did not see them on your list?

Here are the latest reviews on the Mt60;

http://www.goodsound.com/equipment.shtml
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...rs-3-2004.html

the ANTI-Paradigm cult... i've seen threads here for the last 2 years blaming Paradigm for eveything from the death of Queen Elizabeth to the end of the western world....most of the time the bashing has nothing at all to do with the company or the speaker and everything to do with twisting facts to fit a personal agenda....but after a few years it becomes old hat and most take it for whats its worth.... my two cents on buying internet items is this....dont be a buffoon....know what your doing and the risks involved....find someone local who owns a set (Thanks Tin for the "Rocket" show!!!) and then proceed with caution!!! one more point....listen to as many speakers as you can and have a good feel for "what-type" of sound your looking for....the maor listening you do the better off you'll be. BTW I love my nOrh's!! good luck!!

[TinHere]

Hey Pogue, if it wasn't for you I wouldn't have known I had a problem with the tipped up treble because of the pre-production crossover. You're due for another listen post changes. C'mon over. As an example of their customer service they sent me new speakers based on Pogue's comments. Pogue was right on, and the replacements do sound better.

A more common comment about the Rocket's is/was that they could use more treble energy. As a result, the Classic's which I have, have been replaced with the Signatures which add about 1.5-2 db of treble to the mix which most people think sound better.. I haven't heard the Sig's yet, but am happy enough with mine that I didn't send them back for the changes.

I can say I like the Rocket's more than the Swan's I had. It should be noted that I had Diva 5.1's [I did hear 6.1's briefly], and now have the Rocket 750's. A fairer comparison to the 5.1's price wise would be to the Rocket 550's which I haven't heard. I haven't heard the Axiom's but from what I've read, they have more foward presentation, and more treble energy. [note..neither is a bad thing if you like it.]

After all is said and done I recommend the Rocket's to anyone looking for a good bang for the buck speaker backed by exceptional customer service. I do this from personal experience. Since I'm not an audiophile, but more of a value conscious consumer, I feel that unless one has very defined personal tastes in sonic signatures, they can get a system that usually exceeds expectations and has satisfied many with discriminating tastes who did many comparisions before opting for Rocket's. I figure it's good advice to recommend a product that has been so well received by a company who is led by a man that is at the cutting edge in the industry [ie Audio Alchemy, Genesis, Perpetual Technologies etc] and still makes a point to listen to his customers and respond by coming out with new products that answer needs and also are excellent value. And that's why my recommendations may sound like a one note song. If these systems work for people that "really" care, surely they will satisfy most who simply want to set up nice system without dedicating a lot of time to the process. The point is many experienced listeners who did put the time in selected Rockets. And yes, speakers are subjective so no speaker will satisfy everyone. Might they work for you? Good chance if you want price/perfrormance and find them to your liking as many do. Internet direct does deliver.

[Jon Lane]

And the operative word there {regarding freight charges] is "occasionally" and the fact that the shipping charges are part of the equation most other times, then it constitutes a higher hurdle for the consumer if they decide to return something, versus the typical return policies at B&M stores.

The alternative is for the Internet brand to offer free freight both ways -- an open invitation to be a speaker lending library -- and an indicator of excess margins, wouldn't you agree? Of course I offer the occasional freight guarantee, after the prospective buyer and I have taken the time to get to know one another and go over his expectations in detail. And yes, we take back nil. Even with free return freight. With our slim margins and high value, it's the only sensible route.

Well your decades of experience do not correspond to how the dealers in my area operate. All of the dealers where I shopped encouraged me to take the speakers home. I simply lined the trunk of my car and loaded the demo units off their showroom floor. After doing my home comparisons, I simply returned them to the dealers. No boxing, no unpacking, no upfront charges.

I won't challenge your experience but I'll ask how sensible it is for a B&M dealer, already stretched to the limit by expenses, to line your trunk with his property, unprotected (and probably uninsured while in your possession) in the hope you'll not leave town. I've owned B&M for years and I went the extra mile then as I do now, but I would never risk my property like that...so how frequent is that policy?

To me, the greater task is having to PURCHASE the speakers up front just to get a listen to them. That entails risk, and if the customer's willing to do that for potentially greater reward, then it's their choice. But, it's hardly the win-win situation that you portray.

Not a win-win in the sense of an absolutely hassle-free demo. There is no such thing, B&M or otherwise. But our track record absolutely speaks for itself.

The cultish behavior that I was referring to was actually the customers, who can get carried away at times.

Absolutely.

But, if you're calling the Swans a "stable, long-term product" -- how long have you been distributing them? If I recall, av123.com originally distributed them, and then I did not see the Swans on the market for about a year. It's nice that your company carries them, and I'm all for more choices in the market, but even four years is not a lengthy history or legacy.

Actually Swan is a proven brand in a volatile marketplace, and one of the direct-channel pioneers. My relationship with our manufacturer (some $100M large) goes back to 1996 and I was part of the design team in 1999. Your concerns are valid but in this case, let us calm your fears.

Jon Lane
The Audio Insider.com

[46minaudio]

Hey Pogue, if it wasn't for you I wouldn't have known I had a problem with the tipped up treble because of the pre-production crossover. You're due for another listen post changes. C'mon over. As an example of their customer service they sent me new speakers based on Pogue's comments. Pogue was right on, and the replacements do sound better.

A more common comment about the Rocket's is/was that they could use more treble energy. As a result, the Classic's which I have, have been replaced with the Signatures which add about 1.5-2 db of treble to the mix which most people think sound better.. I haven't heard the Sig's yet, but am happy enough with mine that I didn't send them back for the changes.

I can say I like the Rocket's more than the Swan's I had. It should be noted that I had Diva 5.1's [I did hear 6.1's briefly], and now have the Rocket 750's. A fairer comparison to the 5.1's price wise would be to the Rocket 550's which I haven't heard. I haven't heard the Axiom's but from what I've read, they have more foward presentation, and more treble energy. [note..neither is a bad thing if you like it.]

After all is said and done I recommend the Rocket's to anyone looking for a good bang for the buck speaker backed by exceptional customer service. I do this from personal experience. Since I'm not an audiophile, but more of a value conscious consumer, I feel that unless one has very defined personal tastes in sonic signatures, they can get a system that usually exceeds expectations and has satisfied many with discriminating tastes who did many comparisions before opting for Rocket's. I figure it's good advice to recommend a product that has been so well received by a company who is led by a man that is at the cutting edge in the industry [ie Audio Alchemy, Genesis, Perpetual Technologies etc] and still makes a point to listen to his customers and respond by coming out with new products that answer needs and also are excellent value. And that's why my recommendations may sound like a one note song. If these systems work for people that "really" care, surely they will satisfy most who simply want to set up nice system without dedicating a lot of time to the process. The point is many experienced listeners who did put the time in selected Rockets. And yes, speakers are subjective so no speaker will satisfy everyone. Might they work for you? Good chance if you want price/perfrormance and find them to your liking as many do. Internet direct does deliver.

Tin my coments in no way refer to you..You have never pushed your speakers Swan/Rocket on anyone as the best ever..That also goes for Bryan...Im enjoy for feedback on the forums on cable to speaker posts..
Jon...The problem with shipping with internet direct speakers is if one wants to try 3 pairs (and they ought to) shipping back 2 pairs can get into the pocketbook..Also My local B&M also lets me bring speakers home to try out...

[TinHere]

Another thing to consider is if internet direct companies didn't deliver on their promises of value/performance, they would be glutted with b stock as the result of returns, and couldn't survive due to lost profit margins. It's a pretty cut and dry thing. Deliver or go out of business. Those that make it have done so by the words of satisfied customers that would be buyers can give any import they wish.

BTW it's great to see a member of the internet direct community posting here. Thanks for your input Jon, it helps class up the joint.

[Jon Lane]

You're more than welcome, TinHear.

I see you're out on the Island. That reminds me of all the many dealerships I've visited in the greater NYC area between 1995 and 1999 -- some of the very best there are and I have fond memories.

But the irony of the Internet-direct business model is that the major online speaker brands...are all still here! On the other hand, I can't begin to count the numbers of my friends who've closed their B&M doors (I did myself in 1992, well before the carnage...)

Frankly, while so many out there are struggling, we're growing. I think there must be something to this...

[TinHere]

Tin my coments in no way refer to you..You have never pushed your speakers Swan/Rocket on anyone as the best ever...

It's all good. I guess I just haven't been making myself clear then.

[TinHere]

You're more than welcome, TinHear.

I see you're out on the Island. That reminds me of all the many dealerships I've visited in the greater NYC area between 1995 and 1999 -- some of the very best there are and I have fond memories.

But the irony of the Internet-direct business model is that the major online speaker brands...are all still here! On the other hand, I can't begin to count the numbers of my friends who've closed their B&M doors (I did myself in 1992, well before the carnage...)

Frankly, while so many out there are struggling, we're growing. I think there must be something to this...

It's good not to be part of the carnage. Glad to hear you made it out in time.

It's all time and numbers as more people "experience" the delta and enjoy the possibilities offered by the companies that do it right. The flow certainly seems to be headed toward the internet direct companies. It seems on the forums there are basically two groups of people, b&m users, and used to be b&m users. The used to be b&m users have made their desicion to change based on experience, and b&m users are obviously happy enough with their experience not to try another way. The growing number of satisfied end users of the "internet model" bodes well for their future.