New State of the Art BG Planar Speakers- Coming Soon

[blackraven]

Very nice, I am looking forward to your review!

[Feanor]

I finally received a delivery date of next Tuesday for these. Apparently the custom wiring and painting took a few extra days, and the driver testing took longer than expected. Oh well, at least they will get here. BG Radia posted a picture of them on their Facebook page. I'll see if I can get that pic and post it here.

https://www.facebook.com/93453844450...type=3&theater

That might be the best for now.

Very impressive!

But, I wonder, why not use a single RD75 transducer instead what looks like arrays of Neo3's and Neo10's? Will it handle more power?

[melgross]

Very nice, I am looking forward to your review!

Me too!

[melgross]

Very impressive!

But, I wonder, why not use a single RD75 transducer instead what looks like arrays of Neo3's and Neo10's? Will it handle more power?

They believe that shorter drivers are easier to manufacture and control. Their concern is that longer drivers tend to resonate more, and at lower frequencies, which seems possible. It's a major reason their long ribbons are cut off at such a high frequency.

The speaker is pretty efficient for a non horn at 93db. It's rated at 120db output. My Bryston 7Bsst/2s are now likely overkill. My Carver woofers will continue to be powered by my Murano Ice module 1200w/4ohm monoblocks.

With these, there is no crossover on the 10s at all, either on the top, or bottom. The woofers come in at around 125-130. They are normally crossed off there. I'm not using their woofer amps though. I've got my own ideas on that, and will cut them off at the bottom around 70-80Hz to my Carver Platinums.

I'm getting stoked about this whole thing. My friends are driving me nuts about when it will get here.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Yes but why are the specs not listed? And I have never heard a Maggie smeared or distorted. That's a load of crap! While I own Maggies, they are not the end all in speakers but saying that they are smeared is BS.

Blackraven, what direct comparisons have you made between speakers that you can make a definitive statement such as this? You have got to compare any two(three or four speakers) in real time with identical material to make such a claim. You cannot make comparative statements in a vacuum, and you certainly don't have the auditory memory to make a comparison on a different day, or in a different room.

I have heard Maggies distort. Just try and play 30-40hz signals at anywhere near realistic levels, and the distortion of the Maggies really shows itself audibly. A friend of mine has the 20.7, and they are not the most dynamic speaker, nor do they have the weight and power in the bass that other speakers have in their price category. It also does not have the imaging focus of a mini-monitor which tells me there is some smearing in the time domain somewhere. It is also(like most dipoles) not exactly true to the source - as a lot of the room "sound" is carried with the direct sound. But from the midrange up, not many speakers have the clarity factor Maggies have.

Speakers that have to be placed 6 feet from the rear wall will be difficult to accommodate for most people.

This may not be such a big problem for those that can afford to own them. People usually have the room to accommodate the speakers they choose. If they don't, the speaker won't sound very good in their rooms.

[Feanor]

They believe that shorter drivers are easier to manufacture and control. Their concern is that longer drivers tend to resonate more, and at lower frequencies, which seems possible. It's a major reason their long ribbons are cut off at such a high frequency.

The speaker is pretty efficient for a non horn at 93db. It's rated at 120db output. My Bryston 7Bsst/2s are now likely overkill. My Carver woofers will continue to be powered by my Murano Ice module 1200w/4ohm monoblocks.

With these, there is no crossover on the 10s at all, either on the top, or bottom. The woofers come in at around 125-130. They are normally crossed off there. I'm not using their woofer amps though. I've got my own ideas on that, and will cut them off at the bottom around 70-80Hz to my Carver Platinums.

I'm getting stoked about this whole thing. My friends are driving me nuts about when it will get here.

This is very interesting indeed, especially about the shortcomings of the longer transducers. It's also interesting that no crossovers are used.

I assume these speakers are dipolar?

[melgross]

Blackraven, what direct comparisons have you made between speakers that you can make a definitive statement such as this? You have got to compare any two(three or four speakers) in real time with identical material to make such a claim. You cannot make comparative statements in a vacuum, and you certainly don't have the auditory memory to make a comparison on a different day, or in a different room.

I have heard Maggies distort. Just try and play 30-40hz signals at anywhere near realistic levels, and the distortion of the Maggies really shows itself audibly. A friend of mine has the 20.7, and they are not the most dynamic speaker, nor do they have the weight and power in the bass that other speakers have in their price category. It also does not have the imaging focus of a mini-monitor which tells me there is some smearing in the time domain somewhere. It is also(like most dipoles) not exactly true to the source - as a lot of the room "sound" is carried with the direct sound. But from the midrange up, not many speakers have the clarity factor Maggies have.



This may not be such a big problem for those that can afford to own them. People usually have the room to accommodate the speakers they choose. If they don't, the speaker won't sound very good in their rooms.

I agree. I really don't want to sound self serving, but Maggies don't have wonderful bass. Like a lot of spreakers, they can go down pretty far, but with almost no output. The problem is a known one, and one reason the Apogee's died out. Using ribbons or electrostatics for bass is really difficult as there is almost no x-max. So delivering a lot of output at low frequencies can be out of the question altogether, unless the surface area is vast. Even the Soundlabs I was considering, while they are rated by Soundlab to go to 25Hz, have no dynamics there, or an octave above.

The nature of dipoles just magnifies that problem. A 24" wide panel begins to roll off at about 135Hz, and there's little that can be done about it. Even the big Soundlabs roll off at about 90Hz, and they used to offer side panels that lowered that to about 70Hz, but don't offer them right now.

Then, the lack of taper gives that comb effect, which can give, beginning a half octave above that rolloff, bumps in the frequency curve of about +- 1 1/2db above the rolloff, and as much as +-3db below, if the panel is really too narrow. Not good!

[melgross]

This is very interesting indeed, especially about the shortcomings of the longer transducers. It's also interesting that no crossovers are used.

I assume these speakers are dipolar?

Yes, dipoles. Now, i have to say that I've just a bit of experience with the older 800's, the design of which were really taken from their in wall panels, and had the closed back of those models. And yes, I do know Searay, and lambasted him about his posting here. He's actually a nice guy, and sells stuff to all of his friends at cost, so he makes no money on those sales. It's not his main business, and I don't think he makes any money from his audio sales. He is enthusiastic though. I'm not involved with him, the dealership he's invested in, or B&G in anything regarding business, or in any financial way. I really want to make that clear. And I'm not receiving anything for posting here, or anywhere else, though I've only posted here (other than to the other members of the clubs I'm a member of).

Moving on, I helped him to set up his 800s, and frankly, was appalled at just how bad they sounded.

We removed the rear panel enclosing the drivers after B&G said ok. They sounded MUCH better. There really is no way to absorb a rear wave, no matter what any manufacturer says. The smaller the cabinet, the worse the pressure coloration will be, and these sure were colored! The problem remained that the driver QC wasn't as good as it needed to be for really high quality audio use, though great for movies, where most people just want loud, dynamic and brassy.

Anyway, they agreed to make the next model as a dipole. With new QC procedures on their free standing high end models, the drivers now actually match, and meet specs, not always true before. Of course, this also gave them the opportunity to raise prices.

These are the plexi panels I just made. They are 5' high, 12.5" at the top, and 15.5" at the bottom. I have a friend who is an architect, and with a smile, he asked if I would flame polish the edges. I said no - but anyone who knows me understands that once I get a bug, it's over, so I did. I wish the pics were better, but I just took them with my iPhone.

[melgross]

I figured I should put this into another post, so it wouldn't get too long. I'm replacing the points of the feet. I simply don't understand what it is with manufactures and points. The worst possibly way to have a speaker meet a surface. It causes not only vibrations from the speakers through the floor, and right into one's rack, but the floor actually colors the sound of the speaker itself. Sigh, if audiophiles were willing to learn something, instead of keeping their heads in the sand, this junk wouldn't happen.

Here are the feet I Made in my shop. The bottom is Delrin, 1/2" thick by 2 3/8" dia. Glued to that with medical grade instant adhesive, Locktight 4013, because it's gap filling, and works well with about anything, including the F-3 grade felt above the Delrin. That grade felt is used for machinery vibration control, and works very well with low frequencies. Topping that off is a 1/2" by 2" disk of 6160 aluminum. with a hole tapped 1/4" x 20, to attach to the screws that would hold the points. I powder coated the metal. This was all made in my shop.

Next story will be about the way I had to mod the bottom of my Carvers to allow them to stand at a 90 degree angle rather than tilted back as normal, If there's the interest.

[melgross]

Well, they finally came in last Thursday. They are basically set up. Later, I'll put a picture up.

Long way to go though. Ordered two amps for the extra bass speakers. Hopefully will be here next week.