Are Bose 301 Speakers the best in there price range?

[Bernd]

I'm encouraged to know there are more beer drinkers than wine sippers here. IMO there's nothing worse than a wine and cheese party. However, my point was not directed at wine sippers but rather wine tasters. There's a difference. A wine taster thinks he can detect all sorts of microscopic differences in wines with his taste buds, and then uses this delusion to bash lay-people wines, and justifies paying hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a bottle of wine. Wine tasters also, coincidentally, all like the same wines, and of course they aren't the wines that ordinary people like. And they are the same type of people who buy solid Ag cables, paint the edges or the CDs green, buy $20,000 DACs and claim Bose speakers are a bad deal at any price. Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that Bose speakers are the best; I'm sure they're not, but they do sound pretty good for their price point. If they didn't Bose would go out of business. And when someone claims they are a bad deal at any price they're just an audiophile trying to fit in.

I like good wine,beer, music, good food and sex, so what does that make me? No answer requiered.
In your musings you are talking in a negative way about audiophiles. Once you listen to a great set up you would understand what it's all about. I run three systems in my home. All from different areas of development and with a different price tag (budget to high end), and all play music for my enjoyment and all sound good to me.
Just because something sells the most does not make it the best.
It's all about the music.

Peace

Bernd

[GMichael]

Wow! Did I start all this?

[N. Abstentia]

A beer or twelve should make even Bose speakers sound good

[topspeed]

I'm encouraged to know there are more beer drinkers than wine sippers here. IMO there's nothing worse than a wine and cheese party. However, my point was not directed at wine sippers but rather wine tasters. There's a difference. A wine taster thinks he can detect all sorts of microscopic differences in wines with his taste buds, and then uses this delusion to bash lay-people wines, and justifies paying hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a bottle of wine. Wine tasters also, coincidentally, all like the same wines, and of course they aren't the wines that ordinary people like. And they are the same type of people who buy solid Ag cables, paint the edges or the CDs green, buy $20,000 DACs and claim Bose speakers are a bad deal at any price. Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that Bose speakers are the best; I'm sure they're not, but they do sound pretty good for their price point. If they didn't Bose would go out of business. And when someone claims they are a bad deal at any price they're just an audiophile trying to fit in.

For a NooB, you sure are making a lot of bold accusations here. Just so I'm clear, lemme see if I get this straight:

1) If you don't like Bose, you are a lemming simply following the other audiophiles off the cliff. It has nothing to do with their measured fr containing more peaks and valleys than the Appalachians or build quality ranking right up there with that suit you bought at the 99 Cent Store.

2) All audiophiles are ego driven lunatics interested more in the name than the sound quality.

3) Wine drinkers are drunk audiophiles. I.E. egomaniacal snobs trying to suppress the heathens and unwashed.

I'm not so bold to pidgeonhole the masses with useless labels, although I know what you are...

[markw]

IJust because something sells the most does not make it the best.

Unless, of course, you're a shareholder in the company. Sell dem Big Macs with Cheese. ...do you wanna supersize that, sir?

[markw]

You might be interested in my "$750 Stereo" post below. I purchased a pair of Bose 901s (series 2) for $275. I don't know if they would work for a surround sound setup, but for music they can't be beat at that price range.

People claiming Bose speakers are a bad deal at any price aren't being reasonable. Anything can be a good deal at the right price.Bose bashing is simply a form of contraryism. The masses love Bose, so of course, no self respecting audiophile can like the same thing the man on the street does. You have to keep in mind that these are also the same people who go to wine tastings. People who consider themselves audiophiles feel that bashing Bose is the only way to prove their objectivity to other audiophiles; it's really more of a cultural thing than anything else. They'll tell you all Bose speakers are a bad deal at any price, then turn right around and tell you to buy silver speaker wire. The truth is audiophiles are, for the most part, very gullible and tend to all think the same things, and repeat the same things. Most of them only know what they've read in magazines. Go ask a physicist what they think of audiophiles, and you'll see what I mean. Unless you're trying to impress a bunch of audiophiles, you should research it, and just get what you want.

but, for their asking price they can be easily bettered.


First off, don't call me an audiophile. I'm just someone who has been playing with these toys since the days of tubes and knows what I like and can spot a value when I see/hear one.

Secondly, "the masses" love bose because they've been inculcated with their advertising everywhere they look, even late night TV and QVC. As far as name recognition goes, Bose wins hands down.

Third, "the masses" just love the cute little boxes and aren't aware of other similar products. ...or they haven't bothered to listen for themselves.

While the 301s are arguably the best speaker value in the Bose lineup, they are, by far, not the "best" overall, unless one figures the panache that the Bose name has on the uninitiated and blissfully ignorant has a high dollar value. A pair of lowly Athena B2s* will, IMNSHO, blow them out of the water but, then again, Athena doesn't post ads in every magazine one is like, to read in the doctor's office or Newsweek.

As far as their sales numbers go, Charlie Browns most likely sells more beef than Ruth's Chris Steak House but does that make them better?

Time to come off that high horse. Would you still be singing praises to the 901's if you paid full price for them?

And, no, you most likely won't be able to easily integrate the 901s into a HT system. I'm sure you'll figure out why later.

*and many others as well

[njspeer]

but, for their asking price they can be easily bettered.

That's probably true. I doubt I would have bought them for full price. But for $275 you have to admit that a lot of speaker.

First off, don't call me an audiophile. I'm just someone who has been playing with these toys since the days of tubes and knows what I like and can spot a value when I see/hear one.

Ok, I can understand that. I wouldn't want to be called an audiophile either. Where I work 'audiophile' is about the same as 'astrologer to the stars.' If you were caught painting the edges of your CDs green you'd get horse whipped.

Secondly, "the masses" love bose because they've been inculcated with their advertising everywhere they look, even late night TV and QVC. As far as name recognition goes, Bose wins hands down.

Well, now you're sounding like an audiophile again, belittling the masses and repeating age old Bose bashing arguments, that are most likely not true. I guess all Ford and GM need to do to keep from going out of business is just increase advertising, and the idiot masses will follow, does that really make sense to you?

Third, "the masses" just love the cute little boxes and aren't aware of other similar products. ...or they haven't bothered to listen for themselves.

While the 301s are arguably the best speaker [v]alue in the Bose lineup, they are, by far, not the "best" overall, unless one figures the panache that the Bose name has on the initiated has a dollar value. A pair of lowly Athena B2s* will, IMNSHO, blow them out of the water but, then again, Athena doesn't post ads in every magazine one is like, to read in the doctor's office or Newsweek.

As far as their sales numbers go, Charlie Browns most likely sells more beef than Ruth's Chris Steak House but does that make them better?

Time to come off that high horse. Would you still be singing praises to the 901's if you paid full price for them?

To be honest I can't see myself paying full price for anything. If I were going to spend $1500 on a pair of speakers, I'd have to re-asses the situation. But you can buy used 901s all day long for the price I paid, so it's really a moot point.

And, no, you most likely won't be able to easily integrate the 901s into a HT system. I'm sure you'll figure out why later.

*and many others as well

Maybe, maybe not. Have you actually tried to integrate a pair of 901s into a surround sound set up? I didn't think so. The 901 users guide says you can; I've heard many say you can't, but I've also heard quite a few say you can. So I don't know I haven't tried, that's why I stated as such.

[SlumpBuster]

Topspeed and MarkW are right on the money.

I gots two problems with the thread.
1. nOOb with his 901s is showing an impressive amount of disdain for a good portion of the AR community: i.e. audiophiles (self proclaimed or otherwise) in search of the next tweak or upgrade. If we're all a bunch of elitist wanks, why did you bother joining the community? Bagging on audiophiles for being elitist snobs is like going to a strip bar and being bummed out that the dancers are kinda skanky. It goes with the territory.

2. The lines of "go listen yourself and decide for for your self" and "if it sounds good to you than, okay" serve a purpose, but not here. These are 301s for christsake. They are crap and alway have been crap. If some poor nOOb says, "my neighbor says the 301 is best in class" we owe it to them to say with all candor, "no, don't even waste your time."

Subjective opinion has its place if someone asks: paradigm vs. B&W, or tyler vs. dynaudio, or Martin Logan vs. Magnapan. In those cases, go listen. If you like it, then okay. But, somethings are objectively without question bad. Budweiser is bad beer. Thunderbird is bad wine. Hungry howies is bad pizza. SlumpBusting is bad sex (hehe ). And 301s are bad speakers. It doesn't matter that I had some epic rockouts in college to a pair of 301s, they are still simply a bad speaker.

[SlumpBuster]

Well, now you're sounding like an audiophile again, belittling the masses and repeating age old Bose bashing arguments, that are most likely not true. I guess all Ford and GM need to do to keep from going out of business is just increase advertising, and the idiot masses will follow, does that really make sense to you?

No, but neither does buying an obsolete speaker system for $275. But, hey I got a Ford Pinto for you for $500. You have to admit, for $500 thats alot of car.

[njspeer]

No, but neither does buying an obsolete speaker system for $275. But, hey I got a Ford Pinto for you for $500. You have to admit, for $500 thats alot of car.

Obsolete? Last time I check speaker technology has been virtually unchanged in the last 30 years. 99.9% of speakers are a coil attached to some sort of surface area pushing air back and forth, trust me, I was at the store the other day and all the speakers there use this technology.

[squeegy200]

When I was in college, I worked for an audio retailer that was also a Bose authorized reseller. That job provided me with an opportunity that few experience. The retail environment allowed me to compare many different brands of speakers with many different combinations of equipment, material, and sources. I was also priviledged enough to check out items and take them home to audition in my own listening space on my own equipment. During my time I was able to do AB listening tests against other manufacturers speakers including KLH, AR, Dahlquist, Magnapan, Infinity and many others. I spent a lot of time with the Bose 301s, 601s, and 901 but despite that, I never developed a taste for Bose speaker technology.

Im no longer in retail, but I still spend time with friends who own Dali, Sonus Faber, Wilson, Martin Logan, Genelic, Tannoy, and others.

My latest experience with Bose occurred last month when I rebuilt a pair of 901 IIIs for a friend. After replacing all of the surrounds on the 18 individual drivers and cleaning the electronics, I hooked up the EQ to my preamp and auditioned the newly refurbished 901s in my listening room.

They definitely create immense sound pressure levels. And that characteristic Bose signature recalled my memories of the day when I used to sell them in the retail store. They were popular and easy to sell back then. And I found no shortage of buyers today when my friend asked me to put them up for sale on ebay. Its not my cup of tea but the feverish response to my eBay auction would indicate there are still numerous audio enthusiasts who would disagree with me.

It's a strict matter of taste when it comes to these speakers.

[SlumpBuster]

How is the 901 obsolete? Well, if your looking for "Stereo Everywhere," I give you the $99 Insignia 5.1 HTiB:



BAM! You're obsolete.

[njspeer]

How is the 901 obsolete? Well, if your looking for "Stereo Everywhere," I give you the $99 Insignia 5.1 HTiB:



BAM! You're obsolete.

He he he, that was a good one. You almost had me for a second.

[ChrisY]

Guys I didnt mean for the question to come all of this, sorry. Jesus Christ.

[paul_pci]

Guys I didnt mean for the question to come all of this, sorry. Jesus Christ.

Don't worry, happens every now and then. You know, like an acne breakout.

[ChrisY]

Don't worry, happens every now and then. You know, like an acne breakout.

Yes, a really horrible breakout

[markw]

Guys I didnt mean for the question to come all of this, sorry. Jesus Christ.

Any question is OK here as long as it's asked with good intentions,, or not as a troll. Your question was not interpreted as a troll and you initially got some honest, humorous, non-insulting, and generally non-judgmental answers in return. That's what should happen in a best case scenario.

It's too bad that a bose fanboy hijacked your thread. Don't let that deter you from visiting here and asking questions in the future. Most of us are regular guys that drink our wine straight out of the box.

[gjpham]

Wow, ppl here don't seem like Bose very much, I'm glad I don't own ones or y'all will chew me out alive.
I've heard alot of comments about Bose, they are over priced and have the best marketing team by far. I personally don't vote against Bose but this coming month, I will have a chhance to listen to one. 1of myoung friend just had Circuit City installed just a surround system itself, $4000 and they really happy with their new set up. Can't wait.

[N. Abstentia]

Wow, ppl here don't seem like Bose very much, I'm glad I don't own ones or y'all will chew me out alive.
I've heard alot of comments about Bose, they are over priced and have the best marketing team by far. I personally don't vote against Bose but this coming month, I will have a chhance to listen to one. 1of myoung friend just had Circuit City installed just a surround system itself, $4000 and they really happy with their new set up. Can't wait.

Well, don't make them feel too bad when you tell them what you think of their system

[Woochifer]

Wow, ppl here don't seem like Bose very much, I'm glad I don't own ones or y'all will chew me out alive.
I've heard alot of comments about Bose, they are over priced and have the best marketing team by far. I personally don't vote against Bose but this coming month, I will have a chhance to listen to one. 1of myoung friend just had Circuit City installed just a surround system itself, $4000 and they really happy with their new set up. Can't wait.

Sounds like one of them Bose Lifestyle systems, which are probably about 3X overpriced for the performance that they deliver. Compared to TV speakers, these systems will sound a lot better. But, compared to just about any other home theater setup that shoppers can piece together in that price range, the Bose system will sound noticeably inferior in just about every facet.

Bose is the only audio company out there that pays for TV ads and infomercials, so they have a built in advantage with name recognition, but those marketing costs get built into the product price. Subjectively, they can sound good if the point of reference is the TV speaker. However, if the comparison is done with a component-based home theater setup, then the Bose systems will suffer by comparison.

Just as an example, the Bose 3-2-1 system costs $1,000-$1,500 and is advertised ad nauseum on TV. What they don't tell you is that the virtual surround function on that system is included with EVERY other home theater receiver on the market, so there's nothing innovative about the product. And the proprietary cabling and limited external connections make it difficult at best to upgrade the system without tossing the entire system out. Also, with the 3-2-1 system, you're forever limited to two speakers, since there's no multichannel amplification provided. With a $1,000 budget, you can easily buy a $250 5.1 receiver, with a $350 pair of bookshelf speakers and a $400 subwoofer, and the sound quality will absolutely blow away the Bose system, provide much better flexibility for system upgrades, AND allow you to incrementally add on for a multichannel 5.1 setup.

[canuckle]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that Bose speakers are the best; I'm sure they're not, but they do sound pretty good for their price point. If they didn't Bose would go out of business. And when someone claims they are a bad deal at any price they're just an audiophile trying to fit in.

There's so many things wrong there. The whole point of all these flame attacks on Bose is that they are *not* a good deal at their price point. Their price point is 5 times higher than comparable speakers from other manufacturers. They are built out of cheap crap materials and paper cones. $14 goes into components and $100 into marketting. The marketting is why Bose doesn't go out of business, not the components. People will buy garbage if you can convince them it's treasure.

You keep jumping back to the defensive position that your ancient 901's for $275 are a good deal. But you might want to note that this thread is not about you or your garage sale purchases. Someone asked others' opinions on a pair of new 301s as the best speakers available for the money. They are not. They're not the best speakers for half the money. That's what the thread is about and people should be free to pass on that advice to someone who's considering a truly terrible purchase. Enjoy your 901s. Don't try to slag off people who appreciate a higher standard of quality and want to let someone know that they can also have good sound for less money.

[njspeer]

There's so many things wrong there. The whole point of all these flame attacks on Bose is that they are *not* a good deal at their price point. Their price point is 5 times higher than comparable speakers from other manufacturers. They are built out of cheap crap materials and paper cones. $14 goes into components and $100 into marketting. The marketting is why Bose doesn't go out of business, not the components. People will buy garbage if you can convince them it's treasure.

I'm afraid you underestimate the intelligence of the consumer. Hype as a business strategy will only get you so far. I've already admitted that (at MSRP) Bose speakers probably aren't the best deal out there, but that should be no surprise. All big name companies charge a premium. Nevertheless, you can't just hype your way to success without delivering a quality product. That business model just doesn't work. I'm sorry to go against the grain of established audiophile dogma, but what you're saying just isn't true. The truth is that Bose bashing is simply a way for audiophiles to stand out from the masses (period). If audiophiles were really ONLY concerned about value (as you claim) then they would go off on companies that sell things like this:

http://www.amusicdirect.com/products...?sku=ABEDDBEAM

or this

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...at-7-2005.html

or

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina28.htm

or

http://www.altmann.haan.de/tubeolator/default.htm


Yep. I could go one, but I think I've made my point for now.

[GMichael]

I'm afraid you underestimate the intelligence of the consumer. Hype as a business strategy will only get you so far. I've already admitted that (at MSRP) Bose speakers probably aren't the best deal out there, but that should be no surprise. All big name companies charge a premium. Nevertheless, you can't just hype your way to success without delivering a quality product. That business model just doesn't work. I'm sorry to go against the grain of established audiophile dogma, but what you're saying just isn't true. The truth is that Bose bashing is simply a way for audiophiles to stand out from the masses (period). If audiophiles were really ONLY concerned about value (as you claim) then they would go off on companies that sell things like this:

http://www.amusicdirect.com/products...?sku=ABEDDBEAM

or this

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...at-7-2005.html

or

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina28.htm

or

http://www.altmann.haan.de/tubeolator/default.htm


Yep. I could go one, but I think I've made my point for now.

I don't think that you will ever understand the truth. Good luck in life.

[canuckle]

The truth is that Bose bashing is simply a way for audiophiles to stand out from the masses (period). If audiophiles were really ONLY concerned about value (as you claim) then they would go off on companies that sell things like this: (blah blah) Yep. I could go one, but I think I've made my point for now.

Firstly, I don't know of any audiophiles concerned with value really. They care about sound. Good sound. Something you don't have. Something people can have for a lot cheaper than Bose can give them for a ton more money.

I'd be happy to make fun of any of those products you list. Fortunately, people haven't been fooled into thinking that they're any good so there's little point. And the fact they exist doesn't mean Bose is quality so mentioning them is rather pointless. And the fact that Bose has existed for a long time is also not a sign that they're quality. If you want an example of how marketting can work as a long-term business strategy, have a look at Bose... they're the quintessential example.

Nice of you to group everybody into one group and tell us how they think though, thanks. Also good of you to ignore everyone's comments about black and white truths. No answers for the fact that they're plastic boxes with paper cones and low-grade wiring? No answers for Bose's mysterious absence of publishing any statistics on any of their products anywhere ever? Frequency response graphs published by third parties that show anything but flat frequency response, any idea how that is just in audiophile's imaginations? No comments on the mess that is Bose stereo imaging? Maybe until you can explain how all that crap wrapped up in a box makes good sound you want to bow out of the discussion. Oh no wait, I already know your answer... "that's just what audiophiles say!" Excellent, constructive, brilliant, good job!

[njspeer]

I don't think that you will ever understand the truth. Good luck in life.

Maybe, but you'll still never catch me paying $2000 for a wooden knob. LOL!

BTW, just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I put on Bob Dylan's "Don't Think Twice," crunk up the volume on the ol' Sansui, and my vintage 901s sound good - really good.