Are Bose 301 Speakers the best in there price range?

[noddin0ff]

You know, I've got a real gripe about all those beer posers who think a Guiness or a Sam Adams tastes different than a Genesee Cream Ale or a icy cold Schmidt Light. What a crock of delusional bull. Those people will pay a few bucks more to actually drink a 'premium' beer on tap than from an aluminum can...beernuts! Throwing money away I tell you. Don't get me wrong, I like beer. Man, do I like beer. A lot of beer. Beer's really good--at a price point. But if you pay more than $0.35 for 12 oz. in the misguided belief that you can taste better tasting beer molecules you're just a beer snob trying to impress.

[GMichael]

Wow! Did I start all this?

[emaidel]

I too am a 'wine snob" and proud of it. I also intensely dislike Bose, but I'm not a fan of JBL either, so what does that make me?

Comparing one's tastes in audio to one's ability to distinguish subtle differences in wines is ludicrous, and shows such posters' ignorance of what makes a wine truly good. Despite comments to the contrary, price is very much an object, and I've never spend thousands of dollars for a single bottle of wine, and never will, but I can certainly tell the difference between a mediocre and a fine red wine. I consider touring the wine country in Northern California one of life's supreme enjoyments, and one in which, if people are genuinely interested, a lot can be learned.

The fact that many wineries sell lots of cheaper, less substantial wines is no indication of that winery's overall quality. Indeed, the famous Robert Mondavi winery was recently sold due to serious financial issues due to the younger Mondavi brothers' insistence on concentrating on rotgut and not the fine wines that established the winery's original fine reputation.

Many fine wines are indeed overpriced, and the same can be said for many a Bose product (and has in fact been said in several posts to this thread). Ridiculing those of us who enjoy the experience of wine-tasting, and comparing us to audio spendthrifts is pointless and silly.

[topspeed]

Indeed, the famous Robert Mondavi winery was recently sold due to serious financial issues due to the younger Mondavi brothers' insistence on concentrating on rotgut and not the fine wines that established the winery's original fine reputation.

Actually, Mondavi's downfall was when took the company public in '93. This was followed by installing a BOD who placed shareholder benefits over quality and brand equity. If you are a wine aficionado, you'll find this article enlightening as well as heartbreaking.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/busin...6045/index.htm

It's sad because without Mondavi, there would be no Napa Valley as we know it. Most of the great winemakers were at some time involved with Mondavi Wineries in some shape or form.

One of my favorite memories is of a week long vacation whereas my girlfriend (now wife) and I drove my Saab convertible up through Napa following the Russian River to Mendocino. We must have stopped at a coupla' dozen wineries and microbreweries as we made our way north. However, at Mondavi we were lucky enough to be given a tour my Peter, Robert's newphew, who promptly took us off the beaten path and showed us the inner workings of the facility. We ended the tour in a private building where they held special events. Peter quickly got on the phone and had the staff bring in a few magnums of Cabs, Zins, and assorted others...all Reserve! If that weren't enough, he proclaimed that you can really enjoy wine without something to complement it so he had the kitchen bring in some duck pate, fine cheeses, and other assorted hors d'eurves. We ended up eating and drinking for the next hour or so, all the while overlooking the beautiful vinyards. It was amazing! Needless to say, we left with a few cases in tow .

[paul_pci]

Redtail is one of my favorite beers.

Actually, Mondavi's downfall was when took the company public in '93. This was followed by installing a BOD who placed shareholder benefits over quality and brand equity. If you are a wine aficionado, you'll find this article enlightening as well as heartbreaking.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/busin...6045/index.htm

It's sad because without Mondavi, there would be no Napa Valley as we know it. Most of the great winemakers were at some time involved with Mondavi Wineries in some shape or form.

One of my favorite memories is of a week long vacation whereas my girlfriend (now wife) and I drove my Saab convertible up through Napa following the Russian River to Mendocino. We must have stopped at a coupla' dozen wineries and microbreweries as we made our way north. However, at Mondavi we were lucky enough to be given a tour my Peter, Robert's newphew, who promptly took us off the beaten path and showed us the inner workings of the facility. We ended the tour in a private building where they held special events. Peter quickly got on the phone and had the staff bring in a few magnums of Cabs, Zins, and assorted others...all Reserve! If that weren't enough, he proclaimed that you can really enjoy wine without something to complement it so he had the kitchen bring in some duck pate, fine cheeses, and other assorted hors d'eurves. We ended up eating and drinking for the next hour or so, all the while overlooking the beautiful vinyards. It was amazing! Needless to say, we left with a few cases in tow .

[noddin0ff]

However, at Mondavi we were lucky enough to be given a tour my Peter, Robert's newphew, who promptly took us off the beaten path and showed us the inner workings of the facility. We ended the tour in a private building where they held special events. Peter quickly got on the phone and had the staff bring in a few magnums of Cabs, Zins, and assorted others...all Reserve! If that weren't enough, he proclaimed that you can really enjoy wine without something to complement it so he had the kitchen bring in some duck pate, fine cheeses, and other assorted hors d'eurves. We ended up eating and drinking for the next hour or so, all the while overlooking the beautiful vinyards. It was amazing! Needless to say, we left with a few cases in tow .

Ok, I'm jealous!

[emaidel]

Actually, Mondavi's downfall was when took the company public in '93. This was followed by installing a BOD who placed shareholder benefits over quality and brand equity..

You are correct, but then so too am I. Mondavi's downfall incorporated a number of different mistakes, and all of them were very well documented in a recent issue of The Wine Spectator.

I too have experienced the joy of sampling different (and "reserve") wines, accompanied by delicious pates, cheeses and so forth, and that's one of the reasons I stated as I did how much I enjoy a trip through the wine country.

I find that the more I learn about wine, the less I actually know. With audio, I too consider myself an "audio enthusiast," as opposed to an "audiophile," but thoroughly dislike anything Bose. When I first toured the Mondavi winery, and saw all of its sparkling, metal storage tanks, as opposed to the oak ones used by others, my traveling companion called the facility "The Bose of the wine industry."

[jamison]

I have found through experiences with my brotherinlaw that a lot of people who buy BOSE want an appliance...he wanted to buy speakerrs and be done with it.. my brotherinlaw is someone who isnt capable of doing things for himself such as changing the oil in his car or tuning up his lawnmower. in fact the last time i went over to my sisters house, i needed to work on something for her and i couldnt even find a wrench.. they had several screwdrivers and thats it
my bro in law doesnt care about specifications like frequency response, Dynamic Range or SPL ratings..his biggest criteria was buying a name everyone knows about.
my brotherinlaw bought his all BOSE system at a cheap price... or so he claims, he didnt listen to any other brands. He has the 301 in front on the built in entertainment center, a small cheapo center speaker and cheapo surrounds.. they rarely listen to it.. only occasionally for a movie now and then and at christmas time they have background music playing. Its funny to because in their circle of friends everyone is kinda snobbish and when they are over they all go gagga over bose.. its more snob appeal than anything..One of his friends asked me what kind of soundsystem i had... he said jeez you should trade it in and get a good system like bose.. I told him my system will smoke anything Bose makes, i told him how my speakers have rubber surrounds on the woofers, how they have thick wiring and better internal bracing and 5 way binding posts.. basically it was conversation over.. this guy did not want to hear about specs at all. For me a better constructed speaker = better quality sound not a better name.. oh well guess ill never win this argument

[Bernd]

I have found through experiences with my brotherinlaw that a lot of people who buy BOSE want an appliance...he wanted to buy speakerrs and be done with it.. my brotherinlaw is someone who isnt capable of doing things for himself such as changing the oil in his car or tuning up his lawnmower. in fact the last time i went over to my sisters house, i needed to work on something for her and i couldnt even find a wrench.. they had several screwdrivers and thats it
my bro in law doesnt care about specifications like frequency response, Dynamic Range or SPL ratings..his biggest criteria was buying a name everyone knows about.
my brotherinlaw bought his all BOSE system at a cheap price... or so he claims, he didnt listen to any other brands. He has the 301 in front on the built in entertainment center, a small cheapo center speaker and cheapo surrounds.. they rarely listen to it.. only occasionally for a movie now and then and at christmas time they have background music playing. Its funny to because in their circle of friends everyone is kinda snobbish and when they are over they all go gagga over bose.. its more snob appeal than anything..One of his friends asked me what kind of soundsystem i had... he said jeez you should trade it in and get a good system like bose.. I told him my system will smoke anything Bose makes, i told him how my speakers have rubber surrounds on the woofers, how they have thick wiring and better internal bracing and 5 way binding posts.. basically it was conversation over.. this guy did not want to hear about specs at all. For me a better constructed speaker = better quality sound not a better name.. oh well guess ill never win this argument

Good response. Made me laugh - thanks. And believe me there are many thousands like your brother in law. You're right, you will never win that argument.
BTW, I have a wealthy friend ,I go shooting with, and he is so proud of his little Bose cubes and the amazing sound they create, I want to cry.

Peace

Bernd

[Resident Loser]

my bro in law doesnt care about specifications like frequency response, Dynamic Range or SPL ratings..his biggest criteria was buying a name everyone knows about.

Out of curiosity, we know the nominal FR of human hearing is 20Hz-20kHz, what part of that is actually heard, on average, in practice?

How many recordings actually have bass fundamentals that go anywhere near 20Hz?

Due to their design, there is no way to really correlate any direct radiator design to that of Bose direct/reflecting systems...apples and oranges...Personal preference is a whole 'nother thing...

Dynamic range? I'm sure you know the definition of the term...the difference between the loudest and softest sound produced...more a product of the program material and the recording method than of anything else...more applicable to an amplifiers noise-floor and S/N ratio than to a loudspeaker...Are there figures that show a particular loudspeaker excels in reproducing that ratio? I haven't seen any that specify a spec for dynamic range...efficiency, yes...sensitivity, yes...

SPL ratings? In reference to what? Measured FR? See the above design considerations...or do you mean can they play loud?

Re: purchase preference...how many cars, or clothing, houses or even spouses are chosen because of name brand recognition, price or looks? Nothing unusual...

... i told him how my speakers have rubber surrounds on the woofers, how they have thick wiring and better internal bracing and 5 way binding posts..

Materials? Some say paper...some say carbon-fiber...still others say Kevlar...and there are those who say cones are second-rate...Thick wire? Internal? External?...simply a product of design...you can take the theoretical "best" of everything, put it together and it can sound like cr@p! 5-way BPs...ummm, and this means what? It's like the mnfrs. who provide bi-wiring terms to do nothing more than meet market demands than for any sonic reason.

Bose builds a well-researched (on many levels) and well-built product line that fits within their corporate, and their customers, expectations.

There are any number of legitimate factors to point to, to dissuade a potential buyer, yours have been none of them; in fact, their simplicity and the plug'n'play aspect is one of their strong selling points.

I mean there are many folks who will go on and on about camera bodies and various lens types and apertures and f-stops...and there are those who are happy with the pictures they get from disposables...bored to tears by the jargon-spouting, hobby-centric, know-it-all geeks...

jimHJJ(...and that's why they make vanilla and chocolate...)

[jamison]

well let me rephrase this ... better construction to me = the POTENTIAL for better sound.
like having a house constructed with 2 x 8's instead of 2 x 4's you may not see a difference right away but give it some time.

im sure the average person cant hear much above 10k and i know i cant especially at 40 yrs of age.. but its nice to kow its there... like having a 12 foot ceiling instead of an 8 ft... you dont need the extra headroom but it can make a dramatic difference in the appearance of the room. I had my hearing tested a few years back and they said i cant hear anything above 10k.... but yet i can raise or lower the the 20 KHz setting on my eq and tell a difference why is that ? btw i only use the eq with my cd player... I like to listen to 2 channel without a sub and i boost the bass frequencies slightly for that... Klipsch isnt known for dramatic bass anyways..

or lets say photos, you can take a high resolution photo and lower it but you cant take a very low resolution photo and make it high resolution..
i guess i prefer something with better build quality... is my system the best one out there? no way, I like speakers a lot of people tend to hate (Klipsch) are they better sounding than anything out there ? No i know that... for me they sound better than a lot of stuff ive listened to... I cant afford or need Apogee speakers like some others... but at least I can say I worked for them... I do landscape designing and installations and the installation is very hard work, it makes me happy knowing i worked my duff off to afford what i have.. i havent had it handed to me by mommy and daddy
it all boils down to this ... a desired level of performance. (Bose builds a well-researched (on many levels) and well-built product line that fits within their corporate, and their customers, expectations) well researched? show me the reseach? they dont even list specs... i know specs arent everything but it is a starting point or point of reference. its their customers level of expectations... an appliance... it works its reliable.. well at least till the foam rots out. Bose built one unique design with the 901s everthing else they make is just a copy or variation of that with the exception of the cubes... just as Klipsch has done with the Klipschhorn... Btw ive heard them and cant stand them way too bright.. although i love my reference series..

[Resident Loser]

well let me rephrase this ... better construction to me = the POTENTIAL for better sound.

...we could go off on the tangent of how modern injection molding gives better sample-to-sample quality control and allows for adherence to tighter tolerances, but I'm sure we would be wasting time and bandwidth...unfortunately you seem to have missed the entire point of my post...Bose doesn't build shoddy products, they are built with materials that do what is expected of them (budget and other-wise) and that will survive for at least as long as the warranty period requires...The Bose sound is the Bose sound, like it or not...just like any other sonic signature of any other audio product, like it or not...

One could cite high price (a product of their marketing and advertising costs), the closed-loop factor of the Lifestyle systems (done with a purpose) or the too-high crossover point of the bass module in the Acoustimass systems (a product of the designer-friendly size of the cubes)...these would be completely valid reasons...these would also be completely irrelevant to their customer base.

No one is putting a gun to anyone's head coercing them to purchase any of their products, yet people are...so if you insist saving folks from themselves, feel free...

jimHJJ(...Hmmm...mommy and daddy buys all the Bose stuff for their snot-nosed kids?...I think you may have issues that go well beyond their marketing practices...)