3lock...

>Wait...the Village People were gay?

Nah, just ahead of their time. T.A.T.U., anyone? Seriously, if anyone believes that the folks making hand signs at Yankee games when the groundskeepers are doing their thing after the 5th inning all know that the Village People were playing for, shall we say, the other team, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn for ya. It's just an odd spectacle to witness when you see whole families, young children included, doing these dances.

>BTW: your statement is the same argument I made that you're now refuting, i.e. the music already existed.

No way. Joni Mitchell? A few similarities, way more differences. If you can point me to a Joni Mitchell record that in any way evokes Piss Factory or Gloria, I'd LOVE to hear it.

>Joni Mitchell? Sure, I get how she 'changed music' as far as women being given credence as serious rock artists (writer/performer) are concerned.

She was also considered to be a far more formidable instrumentalist than someone like, say, Joan Baez.

>as far as women of serious RnR substance; I can think of Grace Slick, Janis Joplin, and Stevie Nicks

Grace Slick & Stevie Nicks fit more the role of attractive female fronting rock and roll band, which is not to say they weren't taken seriously or shouldn't have been, but Patti Smith is another matter entirely. Janis Joplin was arguably as much a blues artist as a rock one, but that aside, she wasn't a singer-songwriter. I won't denigrate the accomplishments of these three by suggesting they're not worthwhile on the basis that their main contributions were vocals, but it's for this reason that Joni Mitchell & Patti Smith are examined differently.

>But speaking of Nicks, do you think she needed Patti Smith to exist in order to branch out as a solo artist?

No, but she was a rock star. Who wrote one song for herself that achieved significant success that I know of, and got some mileage out of a Tom Petty song, too, IIRC. But Patti Smith's legacy didn't hurt Suzanne Vega or Sinead O'Connor, did it? Do you think that they owe anything to Stevie Nicks?

>The Pretenders woulda happened on their own, but maybe they woulda sounded different.

Keep in mind that Chrissie Hynde was living in the UK & was a rock critic when punk broke--and she formed that band. That speaks to a spirit that I think Patti Smith can be reasonably viewed as having pioneered.

>meh... A term of indifference.

If you say so, I didn't read it that way & apparently Brad didn't either, but, hey, whatever. No biggie.

>Smith definately had a major influence on some artists. But I don't agree that she changed music.

That's probably closer to a contradiction than you realized. At least the way I read it.

>I thought we came to the conclusion weeks ago that it didn't matter whether we're talking albums or records anyway.

In a discussion of an artist who didn't record albums. Come on, now. This isn't one-size-fits-all. The Village People recorded albums, Robert Johnson didn't. In the context of this discussion, I gather you're not looking to deny the difference?

>Besides, isn't it redundant to say 'gay disco'?
>Besides, isn't it redundant to say 'gay disco'?

No, but it's gay if...wait a minute...