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  1. #51
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    E-Stat, all "PA" amps are not the same. I looked at the Crowns on the recommendation of someone who tried them with some Apogee ribbons and reported very good results.
    Indeed, one's choice of amps that can drive their unusual 1 ohm load are rather limited. Most Apogee folks use Krell or large tube amps. To what did he compare?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    If the OP is a DIY'r one of the ClassD amps like Feanor built could be a good alternative.
    Unlike Feanor's unit, I'd rather not use an amp with a fan for music playback.

    rw

  2. #52
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    ...
    Unlike Feanor's unit, I'd rather not use an amp with a fan for music playback.

    rw
    'Stat, the amp Joe is referring to is my Class-D-Audio SDS-258 -- it uses no fan. And it would be outstanding, IMO, used with any Maggie, possibly excepting the MG 20.1.


  3. #53
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    'Stat, the amp Joe is referring to is myClass-D-Audio SDS-258[/IMG]
    I was still referring to the class D Crown in comparison to yours. In retrospect, my wording was not very clear. It is the lack of a fan that distinguishes your D amp with the Crown D amp.

    rw

  4. #54
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    message from Raj J

    Quote Originally Posted by krishna
    Hi everybody:

    This is my first post on this forum. I would appreciate any advice anyone can give me about using an ICEpower amplifier (EAR 202) with the Magnepan MMG speakers.

    My EAR 202 amplifier is rated to 290 W RMS into 4 ohms. I am currently using it with ten year old Dynaudio Audience 50 speakers.

    I play my music off my home PC using a Squeezebox 3 as a transport and a Benchmark DAC1 that also serves as a preamp.

    I also have a DIY sub assembled from a Parts Express design. It works well with my Dynaudio speakers. The lowpass frequency is set to 50 Hz.

    My listening tastes tend towards soft music and I am not particularly worried about heavy bass. Musicality and detail are more important.

    Thanks!
    good day mate,
    glad to learn that you are interested in panel design loudspeakers, they will indeed open new horizons in your musical life! I noticed a very critical aspect of your message; you have clearly mentioned that you are more interested in musicality & detail, and not too fussy on bass. (you also seem to like the same sort of music I listen to as well, Eric Clapton and Fourplay, producer Bob James and his trio. back in 1995, I listened to the Fourplay group live! Bob james, Harvey Manson, Nathan East and guitarist Lee Ritenour, they were outstanding!)
    with your preference of musicality & detail, have you ever considered using valve/vacuum tube amplifiers for your magneplanars?

    I am not so sure about the brand of amp you're using at the moment, and anything above 100 watts is way too much for an MMG speaker. if musicality and detail is what you're after and you are on a limited budget, try these amps out you will be amazed!
    1. Cayin A50T or KT88 integrated tube amp.
    2. Golden Tube SE40 or 300B
    3. Quad II Forty or II80 (more expensive)
    4. Cary SLI80 or CAD 300SEI or the CAD 120S MKII (more expensive)
    5. conrad johnson LP66S or LP70S (power amp only) c-j currently doesn't make any integrated amps. they have a older one that was fantastic called the CAV50. other c-j tube amps you may want to try out: premier 11A, MV55, MV75, MV60/SE (I'm currently using the c-j MV60SE power amp)

    these are outstanding tube amps that will make maggies sign! since your preference is musicality and detail that's what tube amps are all about. try them out, you won't know what you're missing until you've listened to maggies driven with wonderful tube amplification. sorry I cannot recommend any solid state amplifiers here, because to me there are none out there that come close to the natural tones that tube amps have.

    unless you were goig for some top end solid state designs that could buy you a small house, names such as Pass Labs, Mark Levinson and Jeff Rowland are excellent solid state amps, but cost a bomb! also with maggies you need to be able to keep high quality up the chain, espcially the amplification. from preamp to power amp, source and cables must all be either similar quality or similar design. no point going too cheep on amps and messing up down the chain. remember that you don't have to spend big bucks to get it right. but with panels they do require some quality equipment to sound its best.

    I started out with Quad Electrostatics in the late 80's, then moved onto Apogees, Martin Logans, Magneplanars, and back to Quads. I now have their newer designs the ESL 2905's driven with all conrad johnson amplification, plus the CD palyer is also a tube design.
    this is where it starts and this is where it will end - tubes rule!

    cheers mate, and all the best.
    Raj J (melbourne)

  5. #55
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    E-Stat: The person that recommended the Crowns's was using a Krell KSA-200 or an ARC VT-100. I can't comment on the Crown Class D amps. I've never heard one. IMO Crown should have continued production of the old XLS series. The new Crown XLS series amps are Class D.

    I fully intend giving a Class D Audio amp a try sometime this spring.

    Raj J: I'm sory, but I can't agree with your asessment of how much amplifier power MMG's need. 100 Watts or more of solid state power is IMO needed to make MMG's work properly. 60 Watts of tube power seems to be sufficient. This opinion is based on listening to 4 different MMG based systems. Two systems (Adcom GFA-555 and Accurus A-250 driven) are sub woofer augmented. A third (B&K ST-202) is considering a sub woofer. The fourth (Adcom GFA-545) system is less than two weeks old.

    krishna: Your current amp should be fine.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts
    Marantz CD63SE, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    DAC's: MSB Link, Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY, Accuphase T101 tuner, Teac V-7010
    Emotiva UMC-200 processor, 2 Adcom GFA-545, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2 bridged Crown XLS-402, Behringer CX2310, DBX223sx, Behringer DSP1124P,2 12" Transmission Line Subs (PASS DIY El-Pipe-O), Magnepan 1.7 (fronts), Acoustat Model 1 ESL's/SPW-1 Woofer (rears)

  6. #56
    AR Newbie Registered Member
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    Wanted to know. How small a sweet spot do the MMGs have?

  7. #57
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justdhruv
    Wanted to know. How small a sweet spot do the MMGs have?
    Like other Magneplanar with the approx. 2 inch quasi-ribbon tweeter-midrange, i.e. MG 12, MG 1.6, the MMG's sweet spot is quite narrow: about 2-3 feet wide. Of course, the narrowness of the sweet spot pertains only to high frequencies.

  8. #58
    AR Newbie Registered Member
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    is there a reason, why the sweet spot should be this small.

    I mean, a normal box speaker has almost a point source, for a tweeter, which fires forward. Where as the MMG has a line source, ( and hence the sound decay should much less, though decay may not have any thing to do with the sweet spot) and which throws sound at the back as well, so it should disperse the sound more than a normal speaker.

  9. #59
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    It's not decay it's horizontal dispersion. The quasi ribbon used in the MMG is actually part of the same diaphragm as the rest of the speaker. The horizontal dispersion is not very broad. It is better the further the listener is from the speakers. Unfortunately the smaller rooms they (MMG's) usually get placed in don't allow for "far field" listening. Get 10 feet away from some raised MMG's and the sweet spot is a fairly decent width.

    IMO MMG's sound good even out of the sweet spot. They're just better in it.

    The rear wave adds to the openness and depth of the sound. It doesn't help with the size of the sweet spot. The wall behind them (any dipolar) should be a mix of absorbing, reflective and dispersive surfaces.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts
    Marantz CD63SE, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    DAC's: MSB Link, Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY, Accuphase T101 tuner, Teac V-7010
    Emotiva UMC-200 processor, 2 Adcom GFA-545, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2 bridged Crown XLS-402, Behringer CX2310, DBX223sx, Behringer DSP1124P,2 12" Transmission Line Subs (PASS DIY El-Pipe-O), Magnepan 1.7 (fronts), Acoustat Model 1 ESL's/SPW-1 Woofer (rears)

  10. #60
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    It's not decay it's horizontal dispersion. The quasi ribbon used in the MMG is actually part of the same diaphragm as the rest of the speaker. The horizontal dispersion is not very broad. It is better the further the listener is from the speakers. Unfortunately the smaller rooms they (MMG's) usually get placed in don't allow for "far field" listening. Get 10 feet away from some raised MMG's and the sweet spot is a fairly decent width.

    IMO MMG's sound good even out of the sweet spot. They're just better in it.

    The rear wave adds to the openness and depth of the sound. It doesn't help with the size of the sweet spot. The wall behind them (any dipolar) should be a mix of absorbing, reflective and dispersive surfaces.
    I agree with Joe on these points -- and the MMG is a remarkable speaker for the money, though it isn't a "rocker".

    Horizontal dispersion is limted by the width of the driver. The driver starts to "beam" when the wave length becomes 2x the width of the driver, hence for a 2" tweeter as on the MMG, the speakers starts to beam at about 3500 Hz.

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