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  1. #26
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    A quick question regarding breaking in new MMGs: Is there a CD that generates a broad range of frequencies to speed up the break-in process? I usually play my music from my PC using a Squeezebox 3 and a Benchmark DAC. It should be easy to rig up something that plays continuously. By a coincidence, my wife and I will be away for around 10 days and I wanted to make the most of that time to break in the MMGs. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by krishna
    A quick question regarding breaking in new MMGs: Is there a CD that generates a broad range of frequencies to speed up the break-in process? I usually play my music from my PC using a Squeezebox 3 and a Benchmark DAC. It should be easy to rig up something that plays continuously. By a coincidence, my wife and I will be away for around 10 days and I wanted to make the most of that time to break in the MMGs. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
    k,

    I use the xlo disk:

    http://www.amazon.com/XLO-Reference-.../dp/B0000015AL

  3. #28
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krishna
    Is there a CD that generates a broad range of frequencies to speed up the break-in process?... Any suggestions?
    I would recommend Charles Hansen's IBE disk not only for initial break in, but for ongoing use as well.

    IBE Test Disc

    Some of his comments

    rw

  4. #29
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    Hi everybody:

    A quick note to let you know that my MMGs finally arrived yesterday. For now, I've set them up exactly where my Dynaudios were placed, about six feet from the front wall, using the Cardas formula. They accept banana plugs, so I'm using my old speaker cables.

    Even out of the box, they sounded fantastic. I didn't read the (sketchy!) manual that came with them and assumed that serial number NNNN-1 was to be set up as the left speaker. So when I started to listen to them, I had the woofers on the inside and the tweeters on the outside. Eventually I tried the 'recommended' setup as well. I found that I preferred the 'wrong' setup because voices sounded marginally more natural that way.

    One minor hassle is that the buckle that is used to change the angle of tilt of the speakers is not compatible with polished wooden flooring. But I'll have my stands made in a couple of weeks, so the problem is only temporary.

    I will provide more feedback as I go along.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by krishna
    Hi everybody:

    A quick note to let you know that my MMGs finally arrived yesterday. For now, I've set them up exactly where my Dynaudios were placed, about six feet from the front wall, using the Cardas formula. They accept banana plugs, so I'm using my old speaker cables.

    Even out of the box, they sounded fantastic. I didn't read the (sketchy!) manual that came with them and assumed that serial number NNNN-1 was to be set up as the left speaker. So when I started to listen to them, I had the woofers on the inside and the tweeters on the outside. Eventually I tried the 'recommended' setup as well. I found that I preferred the 'wrong' setup because voices sounded marginally more natural that way.

    One minor hassle is that the buckle that is used to change the angle of tilt of the speakers is not compatible with polished wooden flooring. But I'll have my stands made in a couple of weeks, so the problem is only temporary.

    I will provide more feedback as I go along.

    Awesome you got them so soon.

    As I read your post, you just put them in the same spot as the dynaudios????

    If so try the cardas formula for dipoles:
    http://www.cardas.com/speaker_placement.php?type=dipole

    Also there is really no right or wrong about the tweeters in or out. What it really comes down to most is the distance BETWEEN the tweeters. Most people never adjust for that, and mostly what happens when you swap them in or out, is you change the tweeter distances!

    FWIW the Cardas setup is a good start, but I always thought it put the speakers far too close together and created a small soundstage. YMMV but if you have the space, try getting them further apart until there is a whole in the middle effect and then bring them closer till you get a strong center image. THis will maximize soundstage width. YOu might indeed like them closer together, but it is nice to know what options you have too. FWIW, mine are about 12 ft apart...

  6. #31
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    Dawnrazor:

    With a room width of 13 feet and a ceiling height of 12 feet, the Cardas formula for dipoles gives me 3.59 feet from the side walls (no problem) and 7.42 feet from the front wall (oh, oh). Using the standard Cardas formula, I have them around 5.5 feet from the front wall which is about as far in as I can place them for regular use. I will check the performance using the other formula, just to see how they sound.

    I have been trying to move the speakers slightly, towards or away from the side walls, so that the centres of either the speakers, the woofer section or the tweeter section are at the distance recommended by Cardas. The best results seem to be when the centres of the speakers are at this distance. More experiments are needed.

    There is a slight muffled quality (is this what is described as 'chestiness') to male voices. Will this reduce with further break in or do I need to do something to eliminate it?

  7. #32
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    Hey K,

    The trick is to keep trying. Eventually you will find the best balance of performance and room practicality.

    It has been over 10 years since I heard a stock mmg...so i THINK you just need to let them break in and that chestiness may disappear. I certainly dont notice what you are describing.

    And maybe you might want to break them in before you go to the trouble of finding the right spot for them. Things might be different when they are broken in.

    Those room impractical placements might explain why I ditched the Cardas setup. That and I had subs, and the Cardas really nails the bass though IMHO to the detriment of imaging, or at least soundstage width. I can give up some bass.

    Anyhow, I am soooo excited for you! Getting them vertical should help too, especially with the image height.

  8. #33
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrazor
    Awesome you got them so soon.

    As I read your post, you just put them in the same spot as the dynaudios????

    If so try the cardas formula for dipoles:
    http://www.cardas.com/speaker_placement.php?type=dipole

    Also there is really no right or wrong about the tweeters in or out. What it really comes down to most is the distance BETWEEN the tweeters. Most people never adjust for that, and mostly what happens when you swap them in or out, is you change the tweeter distances!

    FWIW the Cardas setup is a good start, but I always thought it put the speakers far too close together and created a small soundstage. YMMV but if you have the space, try getting them further apart until there is a whole in the middle effect and then bring them closer till you get a strong center image. THis will maximize soundstage width. YOu might indeed like them closer together, but it is nice to know what options you have too. FWIW, mine are about 12 ft apart...
    The Cardas formula for dipoles is just impossible for me given my space; too far from the wall behind & too far from the side walls, (too close together), to permit reasonable stereo separation from my possible listening possition. BTW, I listen with my MG 1.6 tweeters on the outside to maximize stereo separation; this also happens to be Magnpan's recommendation.
    Last edited by Feanor; 06-23-2010 at 11:44 AM.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    The Cardas formula for dipoles is just impossible for me given my space; too far from the wall behind & too far from the walls to permit reasonable stereo separation from my possible listening possition. BTW, I listen with my MG 1.6 tweeters on the outside to maximize stereo separation; this also happens to be Magnpan's recommendation.
    I agree with you about the Cardas setup Feanor.

    It never was realistic in my room either.

    I still say that the tweeter distance is what is important. Meaning that if you put your tweets on the inside BUT put them in the same place as they are now on the outside, you would probably like that just the same or even better as the sound stage would be a bit wider.

    Magnepan recommends the outside IMHO because it is the easiest way to get the widest tweeter separation from their speakers in a given room. But will it be better than inside with the tweeters in the same place? Perhaps not if your room can handle it.

    But no one ever takes tweeter distance into account. They just put the speakers in the same place and all that does mostly is change the tweeter separation dramatically. And fwiw, if you start setting them up with things on the outside you will always prefer them outside. If you set them up on the inside, you will always prefer them on the inside....because invariably you will get the tweeters to the right separation. Any change will be "wrong"....

    I tried to upload a pict and well it shows in the box, it doesnt seem to be in the post. Any tips?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Magnepan MMG with ICEPower amplifiers-tweeter-position-3.jpg  

  10. #35
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    The Cardas formula for dipoles is just impossible for me given my space; too far from the wall behind & too far from the walls to permit reasonable stereo separation from my possible listening possition.
    It really is all about the room. With my 25x16 room, I use greater distances from side and back walls alike than the Cardas recommendations (which ignore room length). After much experimentation and measuring, I found that roughly using the "Thirds Rule" for both worked best. Admittedly, there is no TV screen in the middle to dictate otherwise.

    rw

  11. #36
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrazor
    I agree with you about the Cardas setup Feanor.

    It never was realistic in my room either.

    I still say that the tweeter distance is what is important. Meaning that if you put your tweets on the inside BUT put them in the same place as they are now on the outside, you would probably like that just the same or even better as the sound stage would be a bit wider.

    Magnepan recommends the outside IMHO because it is the easiest way to get the widest tweeter separation from their speakers in a given room. But will it be better than inside with the tweeters in the same place? Perhaps not if your room can handle it.

    But no one ever takes tweeter distance into account. They just put the speakers in the same place and all that does mostly is change the tweeter separation dramatically. And fwiw, if you start setting them up with things on the outside you will always prefer them outside. If you set them up on the inside, you will always prefer them on the inside....because invariably you will get the tweeters to the right separation. Any change will be "wrong"....

    I tried to upload a pict and well it shows in the box, it doesnt seem to be in the post. Any tips?
    I see your pic OK, DR.

    Your conclusion might well be correct that the tweeter on the inside would yield a wider soundstage. However in my case it would put the speakers too close to the side walls which is the primary reason I put the tweeters on the inside instead; (Magnepan's recommendation is a secondary factor).

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    I see your pic OK, DR.

    Your conclusion might well be correct that the tweeter on the inside would yield a wider soundstage. However in my case it would put the speakers too close to the side walls which is the primary reason I put the tweeters on the inside instead; (Magnepan's recommendation is a secondary factor).
    I think you mean OUTSIDE.

    That config gives the greatest tweeter distance with the smallest left to right speaker distance. IMHO that is why magnepan makes that rec...mostly so the speakers are not too close to the side walls as it would be in your case.

    And E-stat I agree. Every room is a bit different so that I why I am encouraging Krishna to experiment.

    I have a sideways setup that morphed into a bizarre "Rooze" setup...sort of nearfield with the inside edges of the speakers pointing to me.: http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?...ighlight=rooze

    This post has a diagram:
    http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?...ighlight=rooze

    I Know, I know....

  13. #38
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    This whole discussion on MMG placement is really interesting. I will try out all your suggestions as I go along, using the Cardas formulae as a starting point. I have a question though: when you talk about distances from the side wall, are you talking about the geometric centre of the speaker, the centre of the woofer or the centre of the tweeter? This question never arose with my old Dynaudios, because the tweeters and woofers were aligned in the vertical plane.

    By the way, I discovered that my stock MMG stands were a little wobbly and used aluminium washers to ensure the screws were tight. It made an audible difference.

  14. #39
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    Hey K,

    I think most maggie owner just measure to the side of the speaker closest to the sidewall. maybe others will chime in if they do it differently, but it seems easier and more accurate to measure to the side of the speaker.

    And looks like the stock stands still blow. That little thing they use to raise the speaker a bit is pretty lame. Now my see why Mye stands and diy stands arise.

    The MMGs are an amazing speaker and I wouldnt be surprised if you can get them to sound great in a couple of different configurations.

    Try getting them 100% vertical and see what that does. As for placement, just take it slow and realize that most mags take a while to find the right spot in the room.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by krishna
    . I have a question though: when you talk about distances from the side wall, are you talking about the geometric centre of the speaker, the centre of the woofer or the centre of the tweeter? .
    Hey, the Cardas formula is supposed to be the middle of the woofer...My previous reply was just stating how most uses probably measure to the sidewalls.

    HOw is it going?

  16. #41
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    DR:

    I have been trying to get some stands fabricated here with the help of a friend. Will upload a picture shortly. I am also experimenting with the placement (with the tweeter on the inside and outside). I will summarize my subjective impressions in my next post - need to listen to more tracks to be able to make an assessment.

    It occurred to me that if I could straighten out the standard feet that come with the MMGs so that the angle is 90 degrees, I could mount the speaker panels on a flat wooden base and weigh the base down with a granite slab. That would make for an elegant speaker stand that is also very stable. Any comments?

  17. #42
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    K,

    YOu can get 90 degree shelving brackets that are essentially a right triangle and that would be an easy way to do what you are talking about.

    Here is an EXAMPLE in wood, but you could use metal as well:

    http://www.wall-shelf.cn/shelf-brackets-4.htm

    As for the tweets in or out, the real answer is that usually you will prefer the orientation you start with. It is mostly about the tweeter distances. If you start one way, you will eventually find the ideal distance. When you switch and if you just put the speaker back in the same place but with the tweets in a different orientation, all you are really doing is adjusting the tweets by about 1 1/2ft in the case of the mmgs.

    If you start with the tweets inside, putting them outside will often collapse the center image...if you start with them outside, putting them inside will squash the soundstage.

    Now if you swap them but adjust for tweeter position...putting the tweeters in the same place when outside and inside, the inside position will give a slightly larger soundstage, but often outside is more practical as it yeild the largest tweeter distance with the smallest SPEAKER distance.

  18. #43
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    Here is a picture of the stand that a friend helped me fabricate for the MMGs. The wooden brackets are from Ikea and a shelf was cut to the size needed for the base. I got granite slabs to provide more weight and improve stability. The original metal feet are shown for comparison. I will be away in India for the next couple of weeks. More after I return...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Magnepan MMG with ICEPower amplifiers-mmg-stand.jpg  

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by krishna
    Here is a picture of the stand that a friend helped me fabricate for the MMGs. The wooden brackets are from Ikea and a shelf was cut to the size needed for the base. I got granite slabs to provide more weight and improve stability. The original metal feet are shown for comparison. I will be away in India for the next couple of weeks. More after I return...
    Looks good K,

    My only concern is that your head should be in the vertical middle of the panel. If they are angled back as they are stock, that creates an angle where your head is likely to be in the middle of the panel, even if it is higher than the middle of the panel.

    When you get them vertical it is likely that the middle will be below your head...so you should raise them up as much as needed to make sure you are in the middle.

    Long story, but I had a low low couch that I got rid of when I moved. The speakers never sounded good at the new place, no matter what I did. It just sounded thin and wrong.

    One day I was sitting on the floor and suddenly the sound was the glorious sound I had remembered. Sure enough, the new listening chair was much higher than the old couch and I was too high above the middle of the panel.

    Raising the speaker fixed it.

  20. #45
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrazor
    Looks good K,

    My only concern is that your head should be in the vertical middle of the panel. If they are angled back as they are stock, that creates an angle where your head is likely to be in the middle of the panel, even if it is higher than the middle of the panel.

    When you get them vertical it is likely that the middle will be below your head...so you should raise them up as much as needed to make sure you are in the middle.

    ...
    Or maybe, to express it differently, your head (ears) ought to be in the "middle", i.e. equi-distant from the top and bottom of the panels. This can be adjusted by angling the panel up or down depending on you listening position. Thus with larger Magneplanars, it might be necessary to tilt the speaker slightly down, i.e. forward.

    Tilting forward a bit is, I believe, permitted by the likes of the Mye stands. In my case I just put wood shims under the back of the standard MG 1.6 stands to achieve a slight forward tilt. To me the sound is thus improved maybe a tiny amount, or it could be just my imagination ... but then I'm notoriously deaf so try it for yourself.

  21. #46
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    Hey Feanor,

    That is an excellent point. Tilt them forward or back or adjust their height so if a line was drawn from their centers it would hit your head.

    FWIW, my centers are 43" off the ground in my new speaker stands.

    My head is about 41" when sitting so it is pretty close the center. I might need to tilt them forward or raise the seat a bit, but I think there is a RANGE and I should be comfortably in that range though tilting might be the easiest recourse.

    And at least on my mmgs, the middle of the DRIVER is NOT the middle of the PANEL. They are about an inch off. The middle of the driver is 25" from the bottom of the panel, and the middle of the panel is 24" from the bottom.

  22. #47
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    Are the maggies more forgiving to amp quality than other box type speakers. Do you think I can pair them with a crown amp.

  23. #48
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justdhruv
    Are the maggies more forgiving to amp quality than other box type speakers. Do you think I can pair them with a crown amp.
    No and yes. Maggy's are extremely revealing of amps and source. You will hear any shortcomings in your gear. They like lots of Watts. You can pair them with any amp.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  24. #49
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justdhruv
    Are the maggies more forgiving to amp quality than other box type speakers. Do you think I can pair them with a crown amp.
    They are forgiving of the load in that you can use tube amps that would not be a good match for many box speakers. Because they are revealing, I would prefer to use something other than an amp intended for PA use.

    rw

  25. #50
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    E-Stat, all "PA" amps are not the same. I looked at the Crowns on the recommendation of someone who tried them with some Apogee ribbons and reported very good results.

    If the OP is a DIY'r one of the ClassD amps like Feanor built could be a good alternative.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

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