As reported by BDA & news from IFA

[Woochifer]

Okay, so from now on I will post so that everyone can sing kumbaya LOLOL

NNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!! Not kumbaya!!!! ANYTHING but kumbaya!!!!!!

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Did you ever think that maybe some of us can see his true colors through the smoke-screen?

So you noticed I am a brown. Great!!

Apologize? Are you kidding me? He should apologize for making me spend 20-minutes just to read through ONE post.

Why should I apologize to you? I can't help it if you read slow.

[PeruvianSkies]

So you noticed I am a brown. Great!!



Why should I apologize to you? I can't help it if you read slow.

I bet I can read and type faster than you. Took you 3 hours to write your latest and longest response to Nightflier, I know because I saw you logged on and were 'replying to thread' for a total of 3 hours...maybe you WERE doing something else, but how am I to know? No way of really knowing, but it certainly didn't take you 30 seconds either.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

NNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!! Not kumbaya!!!! ANYTHING but kumbaya!!!!!!

Come on Wooch(Sam key of eflat pleeze) group hug....ready

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I bet I can read and type faster than you. Took you 3 hours to write all of that, I know because I saw you logged on and were 'replying to thread' for a total of 3 hours...maybe you WERE doing something else, but how am I to know? No way of really knowing, but it certainly didn't take you 30 seconds either.

So if you have no way of knowing if I was doing something else, how can you assume that I was just sitting there?

Does it actually say "replying to thread" when you reply to a thread? Hmmmm didn't know that! Nice feature. LOLOL

I type 83wpm, can you read that fast?? It took me twenty actual minutes to type that response once I sat still.

[nightflier]

Terrence, get a life. I can sit here and debate each and every point you came back with. Your logic doesn't apply, your understanding of the scope of this issue is too narrow, and you are marred by your own interest in this format war. You are splitting hairs. It's clear from everyone else here that they are fed up with this point-for-point debate (mine and yours). We'll never get anywhere and this will go on forever, so I'll be pithy about it:

Fact is, you admit now that your sales figures are stats, so they are indeed estimates. Why don't you just admit that you were wrong about that one? I never once discounted the sales figures, so stop saying I did. And for chrissakes stop splitting hairs over examples and look at the bigger picture. The tanker was an example, of which there are many, that could affect the price of disk as well as player sales. Also your understanding of the internet and how it works is sophomoric - you better leave that alone. There won't be any tearing down and it will evolve to support more traffic - just because you can't understand it, doesn't mean you can discount that. And finally, your ability to buy both types of HD players makes you a far cry from joe6pack - you're an oddball with a creepy connection to "the industry" and here you are flag-waiving for BR. They're supposed to trust you? I'm only telling people to be careful. This is all just entertainment to you, remember? If that isn't a god-complex statement, I don't know what is. Get a life and stop trying to tell others what they should buy - they can't trust you.

Better yet, why don't you put your reputation where your mouth is. I am willing to wager that both BR & HDDVD will be supplanted. If I'm wrong, I'll come back here and admit it. If it's such a stupid wager and the odds are so far in your favor, why can't you commit to it? Either put up or shut up. Everyone here, including myself, is tired of you incessant self-aggrandizing preaching. So put up or shut up.

[PeruvianSkies]

So if you have no way of knowing if I was doing something else, how can you assume that I was just sitting there?

Does it actually say "replying to thread" when you reply to a thread? Hmmmm didn't know that! Nice feature. LOLOL

I type 83wpm, can you read that fast?? It took me twenty actual minutes to type that response once I sat still.

Yep I can type that fast and yes it does actually tell you when someone is replying to a thread, it's under the WHO'S ONLINE feature. Check into it.

[PeruvianSkies]

Terrence, get a life. I can sit here and debate each and every point you came back with. Your logic doesn't apply, your understanding of the scope of this issue is too narrow, and you are marred by your own interest in this format war. You are splitting hairs. It's clear from everyone else here that they are fed up with this point-for-point debate (mine and yours). We'll never get anywhere and this will go on forever, so I'll be pithy about it:

Fact is, you admit now that your sales figures are stats, so they are indeed estimates. Why don't you just admit that you were wrong about that one? I never once discounted the sales figures, so stop saying I did. And for chrissakes stop splitting hairs over examples and look at the bigger picture. The tanker was an example, of which there are many, that could affect the price of disk as well as player sales. Also your understanding of the internet and how it works is sophomoric - you better leave that alone. There won't be any tearing down and it will evolve to support more traffic - just because you can't understand it, doesn't mean you can discount that. And finally, your ability to buy both types of HD players makes you a far cry from joe6pack - you're an oddball with a creepy connection to "the industry" and here you are flag-waiving for BR. They're supposed to trust you? I'm only telling people to be careful. This is all just entertainment to you, remember? If that isn't a god-complex statement, I don't know what is. Get a life and stop trying to tell others what they should buy - they can't trust you.

Better yet, why don't you put your reputation where your mouth is. I am willing to wager that both BR & HDDVD will be supplanted. If I'm wrong, I'll come back here and admit it. If it's such a stupid wager and the odds are so far in your favor, why can't you commit to it? Either put up or shut up. Everyone here, including myself, is tired of you incessant self-aggrandizing preaching. So put up or shut up.

I am tired of it and I am still waiting for some comments on my BRAM STOKER remarks, but have yet to get anything back on it. Maybe that's not a bad thing.

[Woochifer]

Fact is, you admit now that your sales figures are stats, so they are indeed estimates. Why don't you just admit that you were wrong about that one?

In an analyst study of the industry where they are trying to gauge the size of the market as a whole, you might be able to say that. But, the straight reporting of the Nielson data is not an estimate. It's a simple tally of point-of-sale transactions, and that's where the weekly rankings and market shares by format come from. The estimates come from those analysts that extrapolate the Nielson data to fill in the blanks, and sites like the Digital Bits, Video Business, and Home Media are not doing that.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Terrence, get a life. I can sit here and debate each and every point you came back with. Your logic doesn't apply, your understanding of the scope of this issue is too narrow, and you are marred by your own interest in this format war. You are splitting hairs. It's clear from everyone else here that they are fed up with this point-for-point debate (mine and yours). We'll never get anywhere and this will go on forever, so I'll be pithy about it:

You thought this up, follow your own suggestion.

Fact is, you admit now that your sales figures are stats, so they are indeed estimates. Why don't you just admit that you were wrong about that one? I never once discounted the sales figures, so stop saying I did. And for chrissakes stop splitting hairs over examples and look at the bigger picture. The tanker was an example, of which there are many, that could affect the price of disk as well as player sales. Also your understanding of the internet and how it works is sophomoric - you better leave that alone. There won't be any tearing down and it will evolve to support more traffic - just because you can't understand it, doesn't mean you can discount that. And finally, your ability to buy both types of HD players makes you a far cry from joe6pack - you're an oddball with a creepy connection to "the industry" and here you are flag-waiving for BR. They're supposed to trust you? I'm only telling people to be careful. This is all just entertainment to you, remember? If that isn't a god-complex statement, I don't know what is. Get a life and stop trying to tell others what they should buy - they can't trust you.

Hey nightflier, its not my fault that you look at discs in the same way you look at commodities such as oil and gas. That is your fault for attempting to make something so well understood so complex. Players are not traded like oil, pot bellies, or grain. If a shipment get's lost, if we have a hurricane, if there is an earthquake, the cost of players and software remains the same. Did you ever hear any news that the cost of DVD's went up in Los Angeles after the 1994 Northridge earthquake? Or how about in New Oleans after Katrina?

Creepy connection to the industry? If I do, then you have a creepy connection to your job as well.

Alot of people have bought both. Dave right here has both. I know at least a dozen more on AVS who have both. I know at least two dozen more that have both on Bluray.com. Having both just guarantees you access to both camps library of HD movies.

As far as my understanding of the internet, well if it is sophmoric, so is your understanding of the movie business. Well its more like pre-school now that I think of it.

Better yet, why don't you put your reputation where your mouth is. I am willing to wager that both BR & HDDVD will be supplanted. If I'm wrong, I'll come back here and admit it. If it's such a stupid wager and the odds are so far in your favor, why can't you commit to it? Either put up or shut up. Everyone here, including myself, is tired of you incessant self-aggrandizing preaching. So put up or shut up.

You are sounding like a broken record, and in the process boring me. We have already covered this ground, move along

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I am tired of it and I am still waiting for some comments on my BRAM STOKER remarks, but have yet to get anything back on it. Maybe that's not a bad thing.

Sky type guy, just what are your comments regarding Dracuul? I will be glad to address them.

[nightflier]

Wooch,

So lemme get this straight, you're saying that based on a 67% marketshare, people should call it and just buy the BR player? You and I both know that's not enough - if we were Wall Street investors, we'd stay clear of those odds - so why should consumers do otherwise? If you were a BBall coach and you were behind 20-40 at half-time, would you tell your team to throw in the towel? If you were a general and your were outmanned 1-2 on the battlefield, would you give up? Ever heard of Hannibal? Ceasar? Wellington? Rommel? They stayed in it because there were other factors at play besides the numbers.

And how much of a share of the movie market are BR & HDDVD? Does anyone know? Let's say it's 5%. That means that BR accounts for about 3% of all movie sales? And you're going to tell me that people should jump in with both feet? Ouch. And you're telling me that this 3% is not in danger from VOD, SD & HD downloads? Or maybe you're going to say that that 3% can stand up to all the unknowns that SirT is so quick to dismiss?

And even if HD is 15% of the market, that's only 8% for BR. Still not enough to bet the farm on, if you ask me.

Everyone is so afraid to consider the political situation, but I think I need to mention it again. Some nasty stuff is going down in Myanmar, in case anybody cares to look that up. We're still saber rattling with China, too. We're on the verge of blowing another country in the gulf to kingdom come - how will that go over in Indonesia or Malaysia where Sony and Toshiba factories are located? How much longer can we last in Iraq and Afghanistan? Who's going to foot the bill for this war when the troops come home and the loansharks come knocking? Are we going to pay for that with our housing boom profits? No, we're going to pay for that with taxes that will affect what else people can buy. What if Hillary (bless her heart) becomes president - how will that affect the economy, the war, the CPI? Those are unknowns that will each have an impact on buying trends. And those precious Nielson ratings will let you know about it, well after it's a economic history.

It seems like the only people that are cheering on BR here are those people who have already made that purchase. In the case of SirT, he's bought both, but he can easily switch if he needs to - should we trust him? Most of us regular folks won't be able to buy both. I've got money set aside for one player and some disks, not two - I hardly think that's the exception.

I say wait it out - the lead is not enough yet.

[kexodusc]

I bet I can read and type faster than you.

It'd be a treat if you just read what you typed...

[nightflier]

You thought this up, follow your own suggestion.

No I didn't bring it up, it's just clear from what others are posting. It was brought up by someone else. Get your facts straight.

Players are not traded like oil, pot bellies, or grain. If a shipment get's lost, if we have a hurricane, if there is an earthquake, the cost of players and software remains the same. Did you ever hear any news that the cost of DVD's went up in Los Angeles after the 1994 Northridge earthquake? Or how about in New Oleans after Katrina?

What a moronic thing to say. Taxes went up after Northridge, but we're talking about a small event and that's not what I'm talking about. Catastrophic events in countries that produce vital components, including political events and war will indeed have an impact. Are you going to tell me that the events of Sept.11, 2001 didn't have an impact on our economy? How many people went out and bought a DVD player on Sept. 12th? Technology sales were way down that holiday season. Likewise, if a tanker full of a specific unique parts for HD players sunk, it could also have an impact. If the housing market goes completely bust, people will have less to spend. If the price of oil doubles, it will be more expensive to ship parts and disks from the far east. All these things can have an impact. Stop trying to split hairs over this - you know I'm right about that.

...then you have a creepy connection to your job as well.

Care to explain that one?

Alot of people have bought both. Dave right here has both. I know at least a dozen more on AVS who have both. I know at least two dozen more that have both on Bluray.com. Having both just guarantees you access to both camps library of HD movies.

Stop with that already. It's just making a mountain out of a molehill. The vast majority of consumers are not going to buy both. You know that just as well as everyone else here.

As far as my understanding of the internet, well if it is sophmoric, so is your understanding of the movie business. Well its more like pre-school now that I think of it.

Well is that your best shot this time? You still know didly about the Internet and how it can support higher capacities, and this isn't the forum for that anyhow, so just drop it.

You are sounding like a broken record, and in the process boring me. We have already covered this ground, move along

No, the broken record is you that won't commit. If you're so sure about BR, then say so. Put up or shut up.

[Mr Peabody]

I don't know if SirTtT works for Blu-ray.com or not, I could really care less, if he does...he does and if not, well then he rips stuff from their forum them. Whatever the case on this whole BRAM STOKER's DRACULA Blu-ray the bottom line is this: majority of fans and people that have seen it are not impressed and whether or not it's approved means very little if it's causing this much of a big deal. Obviously something is out-of-whack. Either a lot of people and fans are wrong and their memory of this film is bogus and they never really saw the film the way it should be or this new Approved Transfer is junk.

Is this post before you took your medication? It seems a bit out of sync with your previous posts. Dr. P and Mr. Sky

I don't see anything wrong with bringing information from other sites or news outlets to AR, that's how information is shared and we learn. But it's a different thing if some one poses as something they aren't.

The fact that the director approved a project is very important. How can you say it isn't? Making a film is like an art and the artists intent is the most important thing. I would think a true film buff would want the artists purest intent rather than a product some one tweaked because they second guessed the finished product.

How would you feel if a Mod came in and changed the color and font on your moniker? This pales to the magnatude of a film but maybe you will get the idea.

[PeruvianSkies]

Is this post before you took your medication? It seems a bit out of sync with your previous posts. Dr. P and Mr. Sky

I don't see anything wrong with bringing information from other sites or news outlets to AR, that's how information is shared and we learn. But it's a different thing if some one poses as something they aren't.

The fact that the director approved a project is very important. How can you say it isn't? Making a film is like an art and the artists intent is the most important thing. I would think a true film buff would want the artists purest intent rather than a product some one tweaked because they second guessed the finished product.

How would you feel if a Mod came in and changed the color and font on your moniker? This pales to the magnatude of a film but maybe you will get the idea.

What I am suggesting is that maybe this 'Approved Transfer' is flawed in some way, shape, or form. All I can say is that it seems rather odd that many people are complaining about the same issues and it's odd that something like this would happen. Rarely has there been a title to hit the format with this much backlash early on. Sure it happens, but what's interesting this time is that it's suppose to be Directors Approved, although really it's approved by a Rep from Zoetrope and that's not necessarily the same thing. The transfer on Coppola's ONE FROM THE HEART was superb on DVD, so what gives on this new transfer for BRAM STOKER? I don't know. I wish there were more answers than questions at this point. I know what I saw in the theater, others do as well, and this new transfer does not seem to match that.

[PeruvianSkies]

Sky type guy, just what are your comments regarding Dracuul? I will be glad to address them.

Read.....this.......thread......

[Woochifer]

So lemme get this straight, you're saying that based on a 67% marketshare, people should call it and just buy the BR player?

Try reading my response again. I'm not recommending that people buy a Blu-ray player. But, if someone really wants a HD optical player, the Blu-ray player is by far the safer bet. Betamax started losing studio and retail support not long after their market share dipped below a 2-to-1 deficit, which cemented the format's demise. History has proven that consumers and retailers alike will not support multiple formats indefinitely. The weaker format will always get relegated to niche status or disappear altogether.

You and I both know that's not enough - if we were Wall Street investors, we'd stay clear of those odds - so why should consumers do otherwise? If you were a BBall coach and you were behind 20-40 at half-time, would you tell your team to throw in the towel? If you were a general and your were outmanned 1-2 on the battlefield, would you give up? Ever heard of Hannibal? Ceasar? Wellington? Rommel? They stayed in it because there were other factors at play besides the numbers.

If you believe that applies here, then put your money where your mouth is and invest in HD-DVD. I'll continue to sit things out.

And how much of a share of the movie market are BR & HDDVD? Does anyone know? Let's say it's 5%. That means that BR accounts for about 3% of all movie sales? And you're going to tell me that people should jump in with both feet? Ouch. And you're telling me that this 3% is not in danger from VOD, SD & HD downloads? Or maybe you're going to say that that 3% can stand up to all the unknowns that SirT is so quick to dismiss?

And even if HD is 15% of the market, that's only 8% for BR. Still not enough to bet the farm on, if you ask me.

Considering the pains you take in trying to dispute the Nielson numbers, are you saying that anyone should trust this bunch of hypotheticals over a dataset with a 60% sample?

Everyone is so afraid to consider the political situation, but I think I need to mention it again. Some nasty stuff is going down in Myanmar, in case anybody cares to look that up. We're still saber rattling with China, too. We're on the verge of blowing another country in the gulf to kingdom come - how will that go over in Indonesia or Malaysia where Sony and Toshiba factories are located? How much longer can we last in Iraq and Afghanistan? Who's going to foot the bill for this war when the troops come home and the loansharks come knocking? Are we going to pay for that with our housing boom profits? No, we're going to pay for that with taxes that will affect what else people can buy. What if Hillary (bless her heart) becomes president - how will that affect the economy, the war, the CPI? Those are unknowns that will each have an impact on buying trends. And those precious Nielson ratings will let you know about it, well after it's a economic history.

And what does Myanmar have to do with the validity of point-of-sale data collected inside of U.S. retail stores? Unless you can prove that deteriorating economic and market conditions would disproportionately affect Blu-ray more than HD-DVD, this flight of fancy analogy doesn't apply to much of anything.

It seems like the only people that are cheering on BR here are those people who have already made that purchase. In the case of SirT, he's bought both, but he can easily switch if he needs to - should we trust him? Most of us regular folks won't be able to buy both. I've got money set aside for one player and some disks, not two - I hardly think that's the exception.

Cheering on? Hardly. From the beginning, I've said that I want one unified format, and absent a unified format, I want either HD-DVD or Blu-ray to decisively win. And with the current market structure, there simply no way for HD-DVD to accomplish that. It will take a major structural shift on the magnitude of Paramount/Dreamworks' announcement for HD-DVD to even come close to pulling even with Blu-ray in overall market share. If the market structure stays the same, Blu-ray wins or some hybrid approach will win. It's that simple.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

No I didn't bring it up, it's just clear from what others are posting. It was brought up by someone else. Get your facts straight.

You continually say that I am getting some benefit from this, just what is this benefit?

What a moronic thing to say. Taxes went up after Northridge, but we're talking about a small event and that's not what I'm talking about. Catastrophic events in countries that produce vital components, including political events and war will indeed have an impact. Are you going to tell me that the events of Sept.11, 2001 didn't have an impact on our economy? How many people went out and bought a DVD player on Sept. 12th? Technology sales were way down that holiday season. Likewise, if a tanker full of a specific unique parts for HD players sunk, it could also have an impact. If the housing market goes completely bust, people will have less to spend. If the price of oil doubles, it will be more expensive to ship parts and disks from the far east. All these things can have an impact. Stop trying to split hairs over this - you know I'm right about that.

You act like the CE manufacturers don't know how to make a backup plan. I wonder how they ever managed to get the DVD platform to market. I am sure all of these condition existed then, but they seem to manage to get players on the shelves and the discs replicated

Geeze, those stupid CE manufacturers don't know how to adjust their sales forecasts after a major catastrophe. I am sure they are stupid enough to have only one part supplier supplying parts for their players with no contingency plan whatsover. Geeze, I wonder how these stupid CE companies got VHS and Compact disc into the market place. You know with inflation running rampant, didn't we have a hostage crises during its existance? I wonder if everyone stop buying players when that happen. Oh, and after the earthquake in Los Angeles, I am sure those guys in Peoria stopped buying players all of a sudden. I am sure that everyone stop living life after September 11. Buying slowed down, but didn't stop. Somehow players made it to the shelves after 9/11, I don't know how they did it. Maybe they just waived the magic wan and they appear out of thin air. Don't they have major floods in China? Didn't a tsunami happen in Indonesia? I guess they did, but people still bought DVD's and DVD players. Hmmmm... humans just don't know how to adjust.

(knocks on nightfliers noggin) Hey, they don't ship discs to the far east, the far east produces its own discs. There are disc replication plants all over the world.

Care to explain that one?

Care to explain thisyou're an oddball with a creepy connection to "the industry"

I work in that industry. So if I have a creepy connection to it, then you have a creepy connection to the industry you work in. Just that simple.

Stop with that already. It's just making a mountain out of a molehill. The vast majority of consumers are not going to buy both. You know that just as well as everyone else here.

Oh, tweaked your nose a bit here. They do make dual format players don't they? Oh, maybe you didn't know that, which is not out of line for you.

Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill. I wonder if that ship full of HD DVD players ever made it to Best Buy? Did they dry them off after retrieving them from Davey jones locker? Sheesh!

Well is that your best shot this time? You still know didly about the Internet and how it can support higher capacities, and this isn't the forum for that anyhow, so just drop it.

You do the same with the movie industry since you don't know jack about it.

No, the broken record is you that won't commit. If you're so sure about BR, then say so. Put up or shut up.

Kex, Wooch, somebody hit the needle, the record is stuck and I cannot get my groove on.....

[GMichael]

Bump. Ooops. What was that?

[Feanor]

Try reading my response again. I'm not recommending that people buy a Blu-ray player. But, if someone really wants a HD optical player, the Blu-ray player is by far the safer bet. Betamax started losing studio and retail support not long after their market share dipped below a 2-to-1 deficit, which cemented the format's demise. History has proven that consumers and retailers alike will not support multiple formats indefinitely. The weaker format will always get relegated to niche status or disappear altogether.
...

Technically the best, I mean. Sometime that happens, e.g. cassette beat 8-track. Sometime is doesn't, e.g. VHS beat Beta.

I guess Blu-ray is better (?), but as a somebody who bought Beta, I'll be waiting waiting for the clear winnner.

[GMichael]

Technically the best, I mean. Sometime that happens, e.g. cassette beat 8-track. Sometime is doesn't, e.g. VHS beat Beta.

I guess Blu-ray is better (?), but as a somebody who bought Beta, I'll be waiting waiting for the clear winnner.

As someone with no gaming consol, I've decided to get one that comes with an HD format.
Two birds, one stone.

[L.J.]

As someone with no gaming consol, I've decided to get one that comes with an HD format.
Two birds, one stone.

Yup, make sense. I knew I was getting a PS3, so I welcomed Bluray with open arms. If Bluray does fail, I'll still have a very useful machine and the ability to still play my Bluray library. I should be at about 50 BR by the end of the year.

I know that's nothing compared to SirT's 200, but you gotta start somewhere

[drseid]

Technically the best, I mean. Sometime that happens, e.g. cassette beat 8-track. Sometime is doesn't, e.g. VHS beat Beta.

I guess Blu-ray is better (?), but as a somebody who bought Beta, I'll be waiting waiting for the clear winnner.

No problem waiting it out, but both formats are great options right now, IMO.

I wouldn't classify BR as "better," or at least not IMO... I like the interactive in-movie capabilities (and online fuctionality) much better with HD DVD. This, of course, is subjective and many may not even use the features or feel otherwise. And studio coverage is pretty even, but the older classic films I personally enjoy have been more available on HD DVD (with more of the newer blockbuster type movie releases on BR).

Both formats have their pluses and minuses... I kind of wish they would have gotten together and made a "super" format that had the best of both worlds and was supported by all of the studios. That said, whichever "wins," (if any) I feel lucky to be able to watch high quality HD movies at home with killer sound. I kind of felt the same feeling of initial excitement when I watched my first couple of DVDs (even if they were pretty lame titles like "Animation Greats" and "Tropical Rain Forests").

I still believe both formats can survive side by side, and will. Next year will either produce a "winner," (if so, I am wrong) or create a compromise (like dual format players being more widely adopted at a much lower cost than they are now with better functionality). We will see. Regardless, I think it is an exciting time in the HT arena, and I, for one, am enjoying every minute of it... "format wars" be damned.

---Dave

[GMichael]

I can't remember the last time I bought a DVD. I don't want to spend more money on a format that is not HD. So I've been waiting........... and waiting......... and waiting.
Ya know what? I'm tired of waiting. And my butt hurts from sitting on this frickin' fence. I'm getting down. Win or loose, I'll have HD. And some games to play.